How Do You Define an Elite Coach?

[bullets13]

6 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Like I’ve said before, nothing’s in a straight line.  But if you think that athletes just started showing up at Carthage when Surratt did and Surratt was just lucky to have shown at that same time then, well, we’ll just have agree to disagree!  

Surratt went to a school with good athletes already in place and got the most out of them. Won a couple of championships, got the backing of the community, got great facilities, and now many of the best players from all the surrounding communities find ways to play there. He's as elite as it gets, but now that the talent is funneling in and the community has the reputation as title town, another solid coach could step in there and keep winning. On the flipside, Surratt is not going to a place with no talent and no support and have them winning championships quickly without players moving in and better facilities.  and he's not moving down to the valley and taking over a team and winning state championships in 7 or 70 years. He could dominate that area, but he's still going to lose with his teams when they face dallas and houston late in the playoffs. 

[BBtater984]

1 hour ago, Reagan said:

Only in high school football.  BTW, first, Belichick has only been there 1 year.  We need to give him a chance.  Second, Holtz and Saban couldn’t make the move to different leagues.  So…

Why is it only in high school? Is that because of recruiting? NIL? Etc....???

*If you are elite at the highest level... You should be elite at lower levels, or it doesn't work that way?

[Reagan]

34 minutes ago, BBtater984 said:

Why is it only in high school? Is that because of recruiting? NIL? Etc....???

*If you are elite at the highest level... You should be elite at lower levels, or it doesn't work that way?

Elite is my definition.  You have to have at least 2 State Titles in high school football to qualify.  Anyone can have their own definition if they want.  

[AggiesAreWe]

6 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Elite is my definition.  You have to have at least 2 State Titles in high school football to qualify.  Anyone can have their own definition if they want.  

Question. In your opinion, can an "elite" coach no longer be an "elite" coach? Or is he/she always an "elite" coach?

Example. A coach wins two state championships in his first 5 years of coaching after taking over for a coach who had won 6 titles in 15 seasons. Previous coach built a top notch program. Then the next 25 years the coach doesn't win a state championship. In fact, he has a few losing seasons.

Is he still "elite" because of those two state titles from 25 years ago?

[WOSdrummer99]

1 hour ago, 12th man Vidor said:

Elite coaching can be a coach that takes average kids at an average program and has them buy in and over achieves with them. This will require the coach to adjust his coaching styles almost every year based on the talent that he has from yr to yr.

BC HC Josh Smally fits this. But I dont consider him in the top 1% yet. @Reagan's 3% was generous. Doesn't mean he's not a great coach. Just not Elite. Still some years left to make the jump. If they continue the recent success it will snowball into more and more. Look for them to compete with WOS very well next season

[Reagan]

8 minutes ago, AggiesAreWe said:

Question. In your opinion, can an "elite" coach no longer be an "elite" coach? Or is he/she always an "elite" coach?

Example. A coach wins two state championships in his first 5 years of coaching after taking over for a coach who had won 6 titles in 15 seasons. Previous coach built a top notch program. Then the next 25 years the coach doesn't win a state championship. In fact, he has a few losing seasons.

Is he still "elite" because of those two state titles from 25 years ago?

Yes, 2 State Titles puts you in the elite club no matter what happens down the road.  Just think about all the coaches that can't even play in one much less win one.  

BTW, this is for football only.  So, as of now there won't be a "she" involved.

[AggiesAreWe]

4 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Yes, 2 State Titles puts you in the elite club no matter what happens down the road.  Just think about all the coaches that can't even play in one much less win one.  

BTW, this is for football only.  So, as of now there won't be a "she" involved.

What would be the reason for the decline from 25 years ago if he is an "elite" coach? Did he lose his "elite" coaching abilities? 

[bullets13]

30 minutes ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

BC HC Josh Smally fits this. But I dont consider him in the top 1% yet. @Reagan's 3% was generous. Doesn't mean he's not a great coach. Just not Elite. Still some years left to make the jump. If they continue the recent success it will snowball into more and more. Look for them to compete with WOS very well next season

BC has generally been a bad football team for the better part of 3 decades, but have had groups of kids who've given them a couple of years of good teams here and there. Without a doubt they've had a special group of kids the last couple of years and it's shown. There was a local coach in another sport who had a special player and took a traditionally bad program to unprecedented success for a couple of years, and he was anointed as one of the area's elites (often by himself, but by others as well) after two good seasons. In the five years since that player graduated the program has slid back first into mediocrity and then into the cellar. That coach isn't mentioned with the elites anymore. What's yet to be seen is whether Smalley is going to maintain success once these players all graduate, or if BC will fall from the peak back into another valley when this group of kids is all gone. I think he's a good coach. If he can sustain success at BC (or leaves for another school and finds more success), i'll have no issue calling him an elite coach. If they're 5-5 or 3-7 in two years then i'll assume the recent success had a lot more to do with the players than the coaching. In reality I'm sure it had a lot to do with both. Regardless, he's not winning a state title with BC, and that doesn't exclude him from becoming elite there if he can sustain success.

[BBfan061]

13 hours ago, Reagan said:

True!  I believe 1,000% that within 7 years Surratt could win a State Title.  What in his head coaching history would make you think  he couldn't?  I guess you also believe that "athletes" only started showing up at Carthage when Surratt showed up?!  From 1924 to 2007 (when Surratt showed up) and through 20 head coaches no "athletes" ever showed up because there were no State Titles, according to your thoughts.  I understand you have to believe this because then you would have to believe that there are special coaches than can do this.  And as you said there's no coaches that good.  At any one time there are only about 3-5% of the coaches that can accomplish this.  And that percentage may be generous.  

Let me put one to you.  Since you, and others, feel there are no differences in coaches that it all depends who gets the "athletes" and who doesn't, I submit this for you viewing pleasure:  Back in 2007 when Surratt was hired, let's instead slip this name into that slot:  How about the former Nederland coach Bobby August.  According to you, and others, that since the "athletes" started showing up in 2007 that Carthage's outcome would look the same today if August was the coach.  Remember -- ya'll think it doesn't matter who the coach is because all that matters is if you are lucky enough to have the "athletes"!  

I believe Warren has more students than Newton.  What I'm not sure is, are there always transfers at Newton like you talk about?  Or has it just been bad coaching at Warren?!

Surratt winning a state title at Warren over the next 7 years? No offense to Warren… but no it’s not happening 

[Reagan]

58 minutes ago, AggiesAreWe said:

What would be the reason for the decline from 25 years ago if he is an "elite" coach? Did he lose his "elite" coaching abilities? 

No, there's always variables that come into play.  Just like when 89falcon explained that different variable could have happened as to why Danaher never won a State Title.  

PS -- just like I explained before about why Joe Gibbs wasn't as successful the second time around with the Redskins -- variables!  And this actually came from him.  

[Reagan]

2 minutes ago, BBfan061 said:

Surratt winning a state title at Warren over the next 7 years? No offense to Warren… but no it’s not happening 

How could you possibly know that for sure?  What in Surratt's past head coaching history would make you think he couldn't?!