Small schools

[oldschool2]

You stated that the truth hurts following an opinion. That is suggesting that what you speak is truth.

Here's the truth I'm talking about.  At most small schools the upper end (relatively speaking) athletes do not have to worry about losing their spots and/or playing time.  Or...If a kid is not very good...although he/she is at a small school and will very likely be given the opportunity to play and be part of the team...he/she will not take a good player's spot even if he/she works really hard, comes early, stays late, makes good grades,...everything they can.  On the flip side...every team has a best player.  More often than not the best player at a very small school is a lot better than the kids on the rest of the team.  And...more often than not that player would have to do an awful, awful lot to mess up starting every game, playing every minute, being the center of focus..  So what was learned from that?  The last player/s on the bench (who wouldn't be on the team at a bigger school) have learned that even hard word sometimes doesn't get you anywhere.  And...the best player/s on the team (who haven't been pushed by peer competition) have learned that even poor results can still be good enough to get you the most playing time.

I'm not saying that happens everywhere...but let's be honest...it does happen.  I would be willing to say it happens more times than it doesn't.  But it wouldn't matter if it only happened a few times.  In my opinion if it happens at all then it's something you won't reverse.  There have been some arguments about the reasons that smaller school districts are good and that they are necessary.  I know that at most small schools there are kids that get to be part of something they otherwise wouldn't.  Cheerleader, certain sports teams, band, maybe top 10%, maybe all of the above.  But I will just never believe that when 18 people decide to play a sport, and all 18 people get to play the sport...that anyone learned anything about what it takes to earn something.  Not everybody that applies to certain schools...applies for a certain job...gets it.  But at small schools no one is denied anything.

Now a lot of people think I'm a jerk.  That's fine..I most certainly am.  But I can't help it I because I was brought up to believe that nothing in life is free, and everything has to be earned.

You know...there are some similar things happening around the country now.  How some people have to work...some people don't.  But even the people that don't earn anything still get a piece of the pie.   

[Uncle Pig]

   I graduated from Chester HS in 1986, with a class of 19.  In my class alone we now have a chemical engineer, a college dean of financial aid, a director of education for a prison, a law-enforcement supervisor, several private business owners, a registered nurse, a banker, a high-ranking oil-field supervisor, a school employee and an upper-level non-commissioned officer in the military.  Those are just the ones off the top of my head, as I have lost contact with several class members, and we have had a few pass away.

    Economically you would kill smaller communities.  Most small communities have the school district as the largest employer.  You truly want to consolidate, you are not going to have campuses in those communities - not cost effective.  So you have lost your largest employer, your taxes go to another community and you lose jobs, tax money, business opportunities.  Business opportunities?  Take your local restaurant in town, and you have your tournament or games in general.  You are going to make the bulk of your money off these opportunities of people coming to your community.  

    School pride!  Has Beaumont ever recovered from consolidating?  Beaumont used to have school pride, and community pride.  French High, Beaumont High, Charlton-Pollard High, Hebert High, Forrest Park High, South Park High....community pride was abundant.  It was decided to consolidate, and Beaumont lost something it has never gotten back.

    I am not angry at you.  Discussion is good, and not everyone has to agree with each other.  You will probably not agree with my assessment, and find fault in many of my arguments.  I was raised in Beaumont, and moved to Chester my freshman year.  I was able to play football, basketball, baseball, tennis and participate in numerous UIL events.  I would have never had those opportunities had we stayed in Beaumont.  I will end with this.  I was in Arkansas this past weekend at a HS baseball prospect camp with my son at a university up there.  I was talking to one of the dads from Arkansas, and he mentioned this very thing you are proposing.  He went on to say how horrible it has been for the smaller communities.  The city/community where the HS was located gets the preferential treatment.  The kids that were brought in from the outlying communities were treated as second class, and made to feel inferior.  I chuckled when you posted this thread, thinking about that conversation.  We will stay at our small school, and I went from purple and gold to the Blue and Gold of Evadale HS supporting my boys.

Jeez you know a helluva lot more about the people you graduated with than I do. Not make many friends in college?

[RETIREDFAN1]

Here's the truth I'm talking about.  At most small schools the upper end (relatively speaking) athletes do not have to worry about losing their spots and/or playing time.  Or...If a kid is not very good...although he/she is at a small school and will very likely be given the opportunity to play and be part of the team...he/she will not take a good player's spot even if he/she works really hard, comes early, stays late, makes good grades,...everything they can.  On the flip side...every team has a best player.  More often than not the best player at a very small school is a lot better than the kids on the rest of the team.  And...more often than not that player would have to do an awful, awful lot to mess up starting every game, playing every minute, being the center of focus..  So what was learned from that?  The last player/s on the bench (who wouldn't be on the team at a bigger school) have learned that even hard word sometimes doesn't get you anywhere.  And...the best player/s on the team (who haven't been pushed by peer competition) have learned that even poor results can still be good enough to get you the most playing time.

I'm not saying that happens everywhere...but let's be honest...it does happen.  I would be willing to say it happens more times than it doesn't.  But it wouldn't matter if it only happened a few times.  In my opinion if it happens at all then it's something you won't reverse.  There have been some arguments about the reasons that smaller school districts are good and that they are necessary.  I know that at most small schools there are kids that get to be part of something they otherwise wouldn't.  Cheerleader, certain sports teams, band, maybe top 10%, maybe all of the above.  But I will just never believe that when 18 people decide to play a sport, and all 18 people get to play the sport...that anyone learned anything about what it takes to earn something.  Not everybody that applies to certain schools...applies for a certain job...gets it.  But at small schools no one is denied anything.

Now a lot of people think I'm a jerk.  That's fine..I most certainly am.  But I can't help it I because I was brought up to believe that nothing in life is free, and everything has to be earned.

You know...there are some similar things happening around the country now.  How some people have to work...some people don't.  But even the people that don't earn anything still get a piece of the pie.   

STILL opinion........you don't have a single shred of quantifiable data to back that up......just your asinine opinionated statements....... which is evidence only in your own mind........

[oldschool2]

STILL opinion........you don't have a single shred of quantifiable data to back that up......just your asinine opinionated statements....... which is evidence only in your own mind........

How many kids got cut from the Colmesneil football team, volleyball team, or cheer squads at Colmesneil this fall.  How many kids got told "you aren't good enough to participate in this activity"?  and was removed from the sport/cheer team.

[tvc184]

 

I think Sabine Pass merging with PAM would not make a big impact in 6A

No but it would sure make a big impact on a very small district that wants no part of their northern neighbor. 

SPISD voters could have them merge with PAISD anytime they wish. If it was such a great option they you would think they would want that. Don't anyone hold their breath waiting on that merger vote to "improve" the lives of SPISD students. 

(I am not addressing you but merely using your post to make my point)

[oldschool2]

No but it would sure make a big impact on a very small district that wants no part of their northern neighbor. 

SPISD voters could have them merge with PAISD anytime they wish. If it was such a great option they you would think they would want that. Don't anyone hold their breath waiting on that merger vote to "improve" the lives of SPISD students. 

(I am not addressing you but merely using your post to make my point)

No I would imagine they wouldn't vote for a merger.  Especially when (I believe) a large portion of Sabine Pass students are actually PAISD transfers. I put my boat in at Sabine Pass from time to time and there is no way that there are enough homes in little community or on the way to the community to support an entire school with kids.  Those kids have be coming from Port Arthur.  So you're right...if up to them no they will definitely not merge.

That right there also supports my opinion tho.  Because not only is there not a single kid in Sabine Pass athletics that would participate in Port Arthur..most of them wouldn't make the team(s) at the school of their district competitors either. Now..they got really good PA transfers in the past..but then the academic standards were raised so high for transfer students they don't get the quality student/athlete they used to.  It's fantastic for the UIL and one act play programs...but embarrassing for the sports teams.  So you're gonna have 4 year varsity starters at Sabine Pass that probably will have never won a single football game.  Yep...never mind.

[RETIREDFAN1]

How many kids got cut from the Colmesneil football team, volleyball team, or cheer squads at Colmesneil this fall.  How many kids got told "you aren't good enough to participate in this activity"?  and was removed from the sport/cheer team.

There you go ASSuming things again.........try presenting some data instead of opinion one of these days.......maybe then you wouldn't sound so ignorant and delusional........

[oldschool2]

There you go ASSuming things again.........try presenting some data instead of opinion one of these days.......maybe then you wouldn't sound so ignorant and delusional........

I'm asking for data.  You're the one with Colmesneil fan as you're screen name.  So tell me Colmesneil fan about some Colmesneil data.  I want to know how many kids showed up for the first day of practice..and then how many of those kids were let go because of lack of ability to contribute.  Or did they all "earn" a spot?

Give me the data then I'll present you with something.  Or is my ASSumption correct? Please inform me..cure me of my ignorance because I honestly don't know.

[RaiderRed30]

NoSchool2 One simple question:

Did you go to a small school, live near one out in the country, or have ever had anything to do with one?

 

[RETIREDFAN1]

I'm asking for data.  You're the one with Colmesneil fan as you're screen name.  So tell me Colmesneil fan about some Colmesneil data.  I want to know how many kids showed up for the first day of practice..and then how many of those kids were let go because of lack of ability to contribute.  Or did they all "earn" a spot?

Give me the data then I'll present you with something.  Or is my ASSumption correct? Please inform me..cure me of my ignorance because I honestly don't know.

YOU made the claim, it's YOUR responsibility to provide data to back it up.....if you are incapable of providing such data, that tells us all a lot about your BS OPINION............

[TXHORN_ET]

I have my doubts as to any of this ever taking place..

[oldschool2]

NoSchool2 One simple question:

Did you go to a small school, live near one out in the country, or have ever had anything to do with one?

 

Yes to all 3.  But...my definition of small school is a little bit different than most of the people in this discussion. The town I grew up in on had 1 high school.  I grew up on a 50+ acre piece of family property where I would spend my time shooting squirrels, doves, rabbits, and deer.  Along with fishing with my dad. 

We did have to try out and earn a spot on the every roster.  And we had sub varsity teams in every sport.  Every team that we played against on our schedule was an absolute struggle.  I was the best player on our basketball team statistic wise but we had a solid team.  A good enough team that if I missed a practice or was suspended for whatever reason then the team would've still been competitive enough to win.   And a good enough team that if I had a bad practice it would jeopardize playing time for the following contest.  But I never had to worry about it because I feared losing what I had worked for.  So I was well behaved and worked hard everyday.

But it was big enough to fit the mold of what I'm talking about.  Nothing was guaranteed.  I made all A's thru high school and was still number 19 in my graduating class.  So yeah...I learned the value of earning something but still got to experience small town living.

I'm not promoting every school become a huge school district.  I'm just saying that little bitty schools such as the ones I've been mentioning are not really serving a positive purpose.

[Hagar]

After reading all of old schools post it occurred to me that he graduated from The BG School of Stir.  

[oldschool2]

YOU made the claim, it's YOUR responsibility to provide data to back it up.....if you are incapable of providing such data, that tells us all a lot about your BS OPINION............

Alright smart guy.  There are 19 roster players according to maxpreps.  There are 11 other guys that are either hurt, ineligible, or managers.  They do not have a JV team.  

I don't know how many kids were cut from that list...which is why I asked you.  But..if they did cut some kids from that team maybe they should ask them to come back and help.  Since Colmesneil was just demolished by a team about the same size that hasn't made the playoffs 2 years in a row since the Bush administration.

[oldschool2]

After reading all of old schools post it occurred to me that he graduated from The BG School of Stir.  

 

[RETIREDFAN1]

Alright smart guy.  There are 19 roster players according to maxpreps.  There are 11 other guys that are either hurt, ineligible, or managers.  They do not have a JV team.  

I don't know how many kids were cut from that list...which is why I asked you.  But..if they did cut some kids from that team maybe they should ask them to come back and help.  Since Colmesneil was just demolished by a team about the same size that hasn't made the playoffs 2 years in a row since the Bush administration.

....that proves exactly WHAT???? 

[RaiderRed30]

This is the issue with the argument.

It is only be looked at by you in terms of competition within an athletic team. Competition for these small schools is based on playing other schools and communities. The rivalry games are fiercer. The district games are bloodier. Basketball is actually more of a contact sport than 11-man football. The players on these teams are playing for their communities and their teammates. For the really small schools their teammates are the ones they have played their entire life with their family. They understand the importance of family. It is not just about cuts. You learn life skills in everything you do. Human nature is to naturally be competitive so just because you do not have to worry about being cut does not mean a person is not competitive. In our school it was everything. Everyone wanted to do best on a test. Nobody wanted to lose. Our practices were harder than the games. We cared so much that people played with broken foots, torn ACLs, broken noses, and many more. It was for our teammates. There was a student at another school that twice during football season had to be careflighted from the field to a hospital because of concussion injuries. He was told not to do any more sports. I heard about him when he was at a track meet a couple months later running hurdles. That is the human nature. Everyone is competitive. Some more than others, but at the small schools they learn to fight for everything.

Smaller schools as I said yesterday allow for the teachers to actually know their students. It allows the parents to be more involved because they the teachers in the grocery stores and at the doctors. I do not have the statistics but statistically the majority of students do better in smaller class sizes. Everything today is about finances and what makes the most sense. I was in class yesterday and people were talking about how in other countries students are given a test around 14 to see what type of school they need to go to. I have a problem with that because students do better when the teachers know them and how the student will learn best. This can't be done at a large school compared to small schools. If people really care about the future then they would understand that different students do better in different environments, so closing all small schools adversely affects many while helping few.

More examples to disprove your theory:

What would you do about Lindsay ISD? They have 190 students and are located 15 miles from Sherman. They are also the best academic school in the state. If you need proof look at the UIL Academic results from the last ten years. Their name is first almost every year with dozens of students placing every year. According to your reasoning they should be shut down because their is a larger school close by.

What about Brock? Name something they compete in they do not win and they have less than 500. Heck they started UIL football last year and are already favored to win state this year. Weatherford is ten miles away but they are awful at everything. Your reasoning says Brock should be closed and consolidated with Weatherford, even though that would only hurt Brock children.

The last example is a school near me that athletically can compete with anyone. Everything else they do should make them closed, but I am basing my argument just on athletics. This school has one of the best cross country teams in the state. In the 90s and early 2000s they could compete against everyone in the state. They only had 35-40 students, but one year they beat the No. 1 team in the State at a 5A meet a week after that No. 1 team had just beaten the No. 1 team in the country. Just recently their ag mechanics team swept Houston, San Antonio, Fort Worth and San Angelo stock shows. They had 30 students in the school and were beating schools that are 6A and even larger merged ag mechanics programs. This is the definition of smalls schools. They want to win everything.

Are their negatives with small schools? Yes. The school I just mentioned has so many criminal problems coming from the administration it is shocking TEA has not closed them down, but overall small schools do more to help the students and the community. They do not always make financial sense. They do however teach important life skills. Fight for everything. Never take anything for granted. Remember the importance of family. Actually knowing your classmates instead of their names. These are just some of the things found in small schools that are difficult to accomplish in large schools.

Edited September 18, 2015 by RaiderRed30

[oldschool2]

....that proves exactly WHAT???? 

Proves that none of those kids earned anything... they showed up, made it thru practice, and get to play on Friday nights...or at least stand on the sideline in uniform.  But most likely play.  My opinion expresses a theory I have that most small school kids to not learn to compete because of very low numbers of kids.

Well..let's use Colmesneil as our example.  The have 19 kids on the varsity football team and no JV team.  That means that every single boy in Colmesneil High School that wanted to play varsity football gets to... just by showing up.

I can't spell it out for you any simpler than that.  I don't understand from that...you never will.  

[RETIREDFAN1]

Proves that none of those kids earned anything... they showed up, made it thru practice, and get to play on Friday nights...or at least stand on the sideline in uniform.  But most likely play.  My opinion expresses a theory I have that most small school kids to not learn to compete because of very low numbers of kids.

Well..let's use Colmesneil as our example.  The have 19 kids on the varsity football team and no JV team.  That means that every single boy in Colmesneil High School that wanted to play varsity football gets to... just by showing up.

I can't spell it out for you any simpler than that.  I don't understand from that...you never will.  

Again, your OPINION and nothing more.....the only FACT that's been established on this thread so far is that you have some delusional theory based on your own dubious conclusions...that is meaningless to anyone BUT you.......they say ignorance is bliss......you must be one of the most blissful humans on the planet........

[oldschool2]

Again, your OPINION and nothing more.....the only FACT that's been established on this thread so far is that you have some delusional theory based on your own dubious conclusions...that is meaningless to anyone BUT you.......they say ignorance is bliss......you must be one of the most blissful humans on the planet........

Schools such as Colmesneil spend  between 250k and 500k annually on administration alone is a delusional theory of mine?  That would be a fact.  My opinion is that it's a waste of money for 19 kids to not have to try out for a football team.  Or any other sports team for that matter.  My theory is that it causes kids to lose the ability to compete for something.  And for them to think that it means something in the big picture.

There are 19 kids on the football team. Fact.  They did not have to try out. Fact.  They do not have to worry about being cut. Probable. There are a minimum of 4 persons working in that school that are on administrative salary. Fact. My theory is an opinion based on these facts.

You may think my theory is delusional..and that's fine.  That's your right to have an opinion, just like it my right to have one of my own.  So I tell you this...the best player on the Colmesneil football team is probably not as good as he is told.  Because even tho he may be a great kid, a hard worker, and intelligent student...being the best player on a team of 19 does not equal scholarship.  Athletic or academic. 

[RETIREDFAN1]

Schools such as Colmesneil spend  between 250k and 500k annually on administration alone is a delusional theory of mine?  That would be a fact.  My opinion is that it's a waste of money for 19 kids to not have to try out for a football team.  Or any other sports team for that matter.  My theory is that it causes kids to lose the ability to compete for something.  And for them to think that it means something in the big picture.

There are 19 kids on the football team. Fact.  They did not have to try out. Fact.  They do not have to worry about being cut. Probable. There are a minimum of 4 persons working in that school that are on administrative salary. Fact. My theory is an opinion based on these facts.

You may think my theory is delusional..and that's fine.  That's your right to have an opinion, just like it my right to have one of my own.  So I tell you this...the best player on the Colmesneil football team is probably not as good as he is told.  Because even tho he may be a great kid, a hard worker, and intelligent student...being the best player on a team of 19 does not equal scholarship.  Athletic or academic. 

Still nothing to back up your delusional and asinine OPINION that most small schools should be shut down.....and anyway, there isn't a way that it could be done even if it did make sense, which it doesn't....as I said earlier, any politician who supported something like this would be out the door very quickly............keep trying to back up your OPINION with irrelevant babble,, though.......it's entertaining......

[AggiesAreWe]

Alright smart guy.  There are 19 roster players according to maxpreps.  There are 11 other guys that are either hurt, ineligible, or managers.  They do not have a JV team.  

I don't know how many kids were cut from that list...which is why I asked you.  But..if they did cut some kids from that team maybe they should ask them to come back and help.  Since Colmesneil was just demolished by a team about the same size that hasn't made the playoffs 2 years in a row since the Bush administration.

Relying on Maxpreps for "facts" is your first mistake.

[oldschool2]

Still nothing to back up your delusional and asinine OPINION that most small schools should be shut down.....and anyway, there isn't a way that it could be done even if it did make sense, which it doesn't....as I said earlier, any politician who supported something like this would be out the door very quickly............keep trying to back up your OPINION with irrelevant babble,, though.......it's entertaining......

I'm not trying to back up anything.  My opinion is what it is.  I gave you a list of FACTS that brought me to the opinion.  If you aren't intelligent enough to understand them then there isn't anything I can do for you.  Maybe you should try some reading exercises.  I don't know..

And I know it won't change.  Even if enough people agreed with it (which, you would be surprised) it would never happen because society is so wrapped up on not hurting anyone's feelings.  

I always thought message boards were just that..places to have discussion.  Or vent.  I'm venting about the way I feel about small schools.  Don't like it?  Don't read it..  or definitely don't reply to it.  I could care less.

[team first]

Oldschool2. Seen several big schools that never cut players, even though some of these players couldn't start for a small school. Teams want numbers which means more money. 

So maybe we should get rid of big schools also since they let everyone on the team?

[oldschool2]

Relying on Maxpreps for "facts" is your first mistake.

True.  To be fair..I'm relying on that site for nothing other than the roster.  And any fact I got from any source would be second hand..unless I physically drove to Colmesneil, Tx and asked the coach and/or witnessed for myself.  Which..it is not that big of a deal to me.  A coach on staff put that info in there...I'll take that as good enough for government work.