oldschool2

22 minutes ago, SmashMouth said:

I must apologize… I got lost somewhere. What is the 7 year program?

He has a list of coaches that he deems "elite".. that have either won multiple state championships, state championships at more than one school, or both.  And he believes that any of those coaches or any coach of that caliber would go to any school, of any classification, with any level of talent/ability, and win a state championship within 7 years.

22 minutes ago, Reagan said:

LOL!  I save the easy ones for last!  

It's most certainly easy.  Why did one of your elite coaches go 7 years with mediocre record each year, after winning his second state title?  Because he didn't have players good enough to make a deep run with.

You're right.  Easy. I just want you to admit it.. even though you probably wont. 

1 hour ago, Reagan said:

Theory?  My 7 year program is a doable fact for any school district that wants to try it.  The bottom line is it's left up to each school district.  Now, if a school wants to use this 7 year program in other sports, well, again, that's left up to them.  It would eventually work every time it's tried.  I mean if the community feels strongly about the golf team, then by all means go for the 7 year program.  But, doesn't matter to me one way or the other.  Again -- hope is NOT a strategy!  

Sigh... selective responses.. 

9 hours ago, Reagan said:

Ethridge has appeared in 4 State Titles and has won 2 of them.  How many State Titles has Neumann and the present Nederland coach appeared and/or won?

After Landry and Lombardi won their last Super Bowls they didn't win any more.  Did they take their Hall Of Fame status away from them?  Of course not!

"

Etheridge Records after 1977

'78- 6-4

'79- 4-5-1

'80- 7-3

'81- 3-7

'82- 4-6

'83- 6-3-1

'84- 2-8 @Round Rock"

You still didn't explain that ^.  I need your explanation to why he (AN ELITE COACH) managed a 7 year stretch that you would've fired him for... after winning his 2nd state title.  4 of those 7 years were below .500.  Explain that.

It's not about taking hall of fame status away.. just admitting that he didn't have the players.  Proving that even a great coach can't do it without good players.  Like I've said countless times, Bill Belichick is an average to below average coach without Tom Brady.  79-87 without him, to be exact. 

6 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

I'm curious if you don't win in your seven years and get fired, does that make you ineligible to get hired somewhere else?  It kinda seems like you're outkicking the coverage on this one.  For every coach who ever wins a state championship there are dozens who never will.  Not sure how you can keep firing really good coaches in the hopes of finding an elite coach when by Reagan's standards, there are less than 10-15 "elite" coaches at any given time roaming the sidelines of Texas football stadiums, while there are over 1500 high school football teams in the state. 

Great point.. but it doesn't make sense to pretend that the idea is anything other than what it is.. idiotic.  Even coaches on his own list of elite coaches were proven do have mediocre or poor seasons after winning their 2nd+ state title.  

13 minutes ago, SmashMouth said:

This is the most truth I’ve heard. I’ll add parents/community to the mix too (which equates to tolerance, support and spending). To think good coaching is all it takes has never coached at that level. 

This too.  100% correct. 

30 minutes ago, Razor said:

This stuff isn’t that hard…reality is that you need both, coaching and talent…too many folks live in a world of absolutes, saying “it’s all the kids” or “it’s all the coaching “ when neither is true…great coaches have bad years and talented teams fail to meet expectations all the time

il assure you this, there ain’t many no talent teams winning championships but plenty of very talented ones who have success, but don’t win the whole thing

Everybody here know this... except for one.

14 minutes ago, KF89 said:

Of course not. Same type players, same great community support & same elite coaching but not the state title winning results as '77 the other 10 years. 

The fact that he only believes that "elite coaching" happens in football tells me everything I need. 

7 minutes ago, KF89 said:

What were the factors that changed for The Elite coaching of Doug Etheridge after 1977 @ PNG with the same type players? Seems he was average coach after that year. My guess would be the players @ PNG from '78-'83 were not as talented as a whole or never understood the skills being taught by his elite coaching techniques like the players from '74-'77. 

Etheridge Records after 1977

'78- 6-4

'79- 4-5-1

'80- 7-3

'81- 3-7

'82- 4-6

'83- 6-3-1

'84- 2-8 @Round Rock

  

None of that will matter to him.  Etheridge is "elite".

9 hours ago, Reagan said:

Two of these you mentioned wasn't even there for 7 years.  One, I think, was there for only 3 years.  Depending on how bad the school was they went to not sure they enough time.  Things at Stephenville was so bad it took Briles 6 years to win his first of 4 Titles.  But I'll give you some fat to chew on:  Todd Dodge, Dickie Meeks Emory Bellard, Gordon Wood, G.A. Moore, Doug Ethridge, Jason Herring, Steve Lineweaver, and Chad Morris.  All Elite coaches that won Titles at different schools.  Of course there are many more.  But, the bunch I have stated is the rule.  Yours is the "exception" to the rule.  There's nothing ever in a straight line.  There's always minor detours.  But those are few and far between

Coaching is the most important thing in football.  I think some here found that out when they got the right coach at PNG.  And saw the sad downfall at WOS.  Same kids -- different coach.  Amazing how that works!

I'm sure there are still some that says Matthews and, say, Briles has the same coaching ability.  That it's only the kids that are the difference/problem.   If that's the case, then I still have some work to do here.  But, rest assured I'll not quit until everyone thinks like me!  LOL!  (Grin).

A point again:  As it stands right now, if Calallen could hire either Phil Danaher or Tim Buchanan -- which one would they hire?

First of all, the names I mentioned aren't exceptions to the rule.  They also represent a few of many that had great success and then average or below average seasons after at some point.  Even the Great G.A. Moore had some somewhat mediocre seasons mixed in between those title runs.  His last year as a head coach was a losing season.  And you're talking about schools that are powers either beforehand or since said coach left.  Celina, Pilot Point, suburb Austin, Aledo.. are you serious?  Areas of the state that have gone through the most substantial transformations of wealth/growth over the last couple decades anywhere.  Same thing happened in the Beaumont area during the oil boom.  And the Permian Basin area during that oil boom.

I will never not give credit to CT for how he handled WOS prior to the current coach.. but I think it had to do with player management more than anything (a coaching quality no doubt).  Because I was told that this year's WOS team had players walking off the field during games, insanely poor attitudes, etc.  And that might just be the main difference, because like you said and I agree with.. same kids, different coach.  But I don't attribute that to coaching ability (Xs and Os) as much as I do player management.  Time will tell with all of that.

PNG- same sentiment.  Time will tell.  This was a great year for them but they're losing a bunch of seniors.  How confident are you that they'll repeat or somewhat repeat the level of success they had this year?

I personally think Phil Danaher and Tim Buchanan have a very similar qualification to be hired.  Buchanan has an unprecedented 8 state titles... but, at a school with 3 state titles during that same time period when he wasn't head coach.  And almost his entire career was spent at Aledo.  Danaher may not have rings but he has a lot of success at 3 different schools that didn't have anywhere near that level of success without him.  Like I said.. being an elite coach doesn't JUST mean winning state titles.  I'm not gonna sway on that.  You're obviously not going to sway on your opinion.  It is what it is.

There isn't a coach you named that could EVER win a state championship at countless school across the state right now or within 7 years of now.  I'll bet every dollar I've ever made or will ever make on that.  Coincidentally, there are a ton of great coaches right now that could have similar levels of success right now or within 7 years at some schools across the state.

12 minutes ago, Reagan said:

And educated you will get!  😁

I found another I'd forgotten about.  Lee Fedora.  He actually embarrassed Coach Thompson and WOS on his way to his first of 2 state titles in Navasota (elite).. and then went to A&M Consolidated for 6 years and couldn't get past the first couple rounds.  What the heck??  That doesn't make sense... He's "elite" so he should've at least gotten back to Austin, right?  I don't understand you're exact way of thinking. 

5 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Ha!  I’ll answer shortly.  Yours is easy.  

Cant wait.  I'm sure it'll all make sense when you explain how elite coaches win multiple championships then don't get close for several years after.  I'm looking forward to the education. 

19 minutes ago, Reagan said:

The main thing is you want to get it right.  Don't rush.  Find the best candidate possible.  

That's right.. ignore my questions.  That way you'll be right in your own mind. 

I actually watched the game on Anahuac's YouTube channel.  They had the game.. if they could've made a free throw down the stretch.  I think they missed 8 straight including and1's and the end of the game. 

On 1/28/2023 at 11:39 PM, Reagan said:

My thoughts are for football only!

So.. elite coaches only exist in football?  Got it.  

Since that the case... When is Tom Westerberg going to win another one?  He's elite according to your thinking. When is Jeff Kasowski going to win another one?  He won 3 in a row at Bremond.. and hasn't been close since 2016.  What happened with Rick Rhoades?  He won 3 at Cameron Yoe and didn't come close for the next 7 seasons. What happened with Rusty Nail?  He won his second title at Mart in 2010.. then didn't win another for 8 years.  Including not even getting close at 3 years in Madisonville.

Explain to me how these elite coaches became worse coaches... 

By the way.. these are just 3 recent examples.  I'm sure there are tons more.

16 hours ago, Reagan said:

No changes in my thoughts on this.  The Elite coach category is mine.  In order to gain entrance one must have 2 or more State Titles.  Now, Danaher is a great coach, no doubt.  But one must always wonder:  After all those years and all those wins why no State Titles?  If I remember right, one of the previous posters that supposedly was close to the action, said Calallen was like the tallest midget in the room.  Then in the playoffs they couldn't urinate in the tall weeds with the big dogs.  Being a Championship coach is not easy.  If it was then everybody would have 10 or 20.  But -- membership is exclusive.   One has to have that extra "something" to win multiple Championships.  

Let me put this question out to all:  As it stands right now, which coach would Calallen hire -- Phil Danaher or Tim Buchanan?  Pretty clear to me!  But...

I’m going to use a local example from a different sport of two men I think do a great job with what they have at what they try to do.

Coach Joubert at Kountze and Coach Sutherland at EC.  Both with 2 or more state titles (elite according to you).  Both well over 7 years since their last state title.  Kountze, coincidentally, is fighting for a playoff spot (4th place).  Are they worse coaches than they were? Please explain.

6 minutes ago, Reagan said:

This has already been dealt with in the past.  But I'm going to discuss this again shortly.

I know.  I'm hoping you repeat your thoughts on this for the folks in the conversation that weren't last time.  And also make you think a little deeper about your assessment of what makes an elite coach.

11 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Two things: First of all it didn't take much to have an upgrade in LCM from what they had as a coach.  The previous LCM coach:  12 year record:  51-70.  Only once did he have a 7 win season.  But, on the other hand, although the new coach is a major upgrade, it doesn't appear that he's a Championship-type coach.  It all depends on what LCM ISD wants.  They hung on to a not-so-good coach last time for 12 years so this one might have a lifetime appointment.  Again -- it's all depends on where their goals are.

Is Phil Danaher an elite coach?  According to your theory.. he would've been fired at Calallen several times over.  Even though he won more Texas high school football games than anyone that's ever coached and reached state finals twice, state semi-finals 11 times, state quarter finals 6 times, and regional finals 9 times.  That's more deep runs than many of your "elite coaches" that you constantly talk about.

So.. again.  Is Phil Danaher an elite coach? Or is he someone that should've been fired?

16 hours ago, Reagan said:

It's 7 years per school.  If you were an Elite coach then you'd have nothing to worry about.     

Is Phil Danaher an elite coach?  According to your theory.. he would've been fired at Calallen several times over.  Even though he won more Texas high school football games than anyone that's ever coached and reached state finals twice, state semi-finals 11 times, state quarter finals 6 times, and regional finals 9 times.  That's more deep runs than many of your "elite coaches" that you constantly talk about.

So.. again.  Is Phil Danaher an elite coach? Or is he someone that should've been fired?

16 hours ago, Reagan said:

It's 7 years per school.  If you were an Elite coach then you'd have nothing to worry about.     

Is Phil Danaher an elite coach?  According to your theory.. he would've been fired at Calallen several times over.  Even though he won more Texas high school football games than anyone that's ever coached and reached state finals twice, state semi-finals 11 times, state quarter finals 6 times, and regional finals 9 times.  That's more deep runs than many of your "elite coaches" that you constantly talk about.

So.. again.  Is Phil Danaher an elite coach? Or is he someone that should've been fired?

3 minutes ago, Bigdog said:

So did I , those 7 top 100 recruits gave up 24 pts and was down at halftime.  SOC made adjustments in the second half , and it didn't look like PNG made as many to counter.  Too many mistakes in a SC game for PNG.  Anyway, I have seen scrappy teams beat teams with more talent plenty of times.  PNG and Nederland have beat teams they probably shouldn't have (on paper anyway) and lost to teams they shouldn't have.  That's why you play the game.

 

Lets get back on topic this doesn't have anything to do with Vidor really.  (My fault as well for getting off topic)

It's somewhat related to Vidor.  It was said that Vidor has as much talent as whoever.. Lumberton I think.  So they should've won this year with all their 4.5 speedsters and scrappy kids.

And yeah.. less talented teams win every once in a while.  I wouldn't take that pitch to a college recruiter job interview if I were you.

3 minutes ago, Bigdog said:

I didn't say that.  I said that there are a lot of misses on highly recruited kids and NFL picks.  Not all of the time, but their hit percentages are not as high as you would think with the amount of money and time that are spent.  If you read some interviews with NFL scouts, most say that the 1st round is a crapshoot and more quality players come in the middle rounds.   Same thing for college.

"And?  Colleges miss all the time on so called "5 star or top 100 recruits" .  So does the NFL on 1st round picks."

Get it wrong all the time.... miss all the time.... not much different to me.  But you definitely said that ^.  Either way.. it's statistically high enough that I'm taking their side.  So, in the case of "7 top 100 recruits" vs. "zero top 100 recruits"... I'm betting that the one with 7 is more talented.  Especially since I actually watched the game. 

21 minutes ago, Bigdog said:

I just did.  I will give you another one, he goes by the GOAT.

Let's make a comparison.. how many top recruits do they get right?  How many first round picks do they get right?

Personally.. I'm gonna go with the billions of dollars industries that devote millions of dollars+ on getting the best players possible in order to win games.  As opposed to some guy on some high school sports forum that says, "they get it wrong all the time...". 

2 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Like you have said, and I agree, there are exceptions to everything.  But, 90% of the time coaching will prevail as the deciding factor.  

I agree with you that coaching is the deciding factor when talent is relatively similar. Coaching will even overcome a slightly higher degree of talent.. but there's a limit to that.  Surely even you don't think the greatest 2A coach in all of existence with the best 2A team to have ever played can beat Northshore as they are right now. 

13 minutes ago, Reagan said:

WOS still had the same level of talent this year.  What happened?  Wrong coach, wrong result.  Or did the talent stop showing up when Cornel left?  Also, Newton, they had pretty good coaches when they were winning State.  The Newton faithful are going to be disappointed with what they got now.  But they still have the talent!  Of course, as always, this is just my opinion!

player + coaching + level of competition

Which part of the formula do you not understand? By the way... the last part is the reason the WOS predecessor didn't win a state title every year.  Graduation contributed to that as well (player).  Where does "level of competition" come in to play?  Well... if you'll remember.  WOS couldn't even get out of the region when Carthage was in their classification (level of competition).  Thank goodness UIL came in and split the divisions.  That's when a great coach (C. Thompson) became next level great in your eyes.  

Not to be a buzzkill... but it happened for Newton, Too.  Before the D1/D2 classification split they couldn't get past Cameron Yoe.