Nederland is open, Barrow Resigns

[1989NDN]

18 hours ago, outanup said:

I don't think anyone here would argue that the injuns have had better personal the last couple years. And better Coaching without  question. The biggest separation was in the trenches., and not so much skill wise imo.... Talent is cyclical, it comes and goes. If Neds new staff lives up to expectations, I see no issue of much more competitive matchups in the future. It's all cyclical ,coaching and talent.....Lets give it some time and see...200 more kids is a plus but by no means the tell all year by year.

+1...the talent swings back and forth.  It's been that way since 1950?  1925?  The great seasons happen when you get a good group of kids and combine them with a great coach, e.g., Ethridge, Neumann, and Joseph.  Just enjoy the ride.  If it's not your turn, tip your cap to your neighbor and eventually the pendulum will swing back to your side.

[purpleeagle]

3 hours ago, bullets13 said:

PNG athletes (at this time) are still better, and more importantly, bigger, than what Nederland has.  Joseph made a difference there, but he came into a loaded program as well that pretty much everyone expected to show a lot of improvement.  He would not go to Nederland and turn them into state contenders in a year or two like he was able to do at PNG, although they would without a doubt improve.

I went to png and we did not have the numbers nor the size that png has now. Png won state because they had the size in the trenches that it takes to win. Nederland was small in the trenches. No one could have done any better last year. They  made the playoffs with a undersized team. 

[PN-G bamatex]

On 4/9/2024 at 12:30 PM, purpleeagle said:

Png also has 219 more kids in high school then nederland.

That’s a recent phenomenon. PN-G and Nederland were always within a hundred students of each other until PN-G’s numbers started to jump around 2018. In fact, for many years leading up to that, PN-G was slightly smaller than Nederland.

[purpleeagle]

On 4/10/2024 at 1:31 PM, 1989NDN said:

+1...the talent swings back and forth.  It's been that way since 1950?  1925?  The great seasons happen when you get a good group of kids and combine them with a great coach, e.g., Ethridge, Neumann, and Joseph.  Just enjoy the ride.  If it's not your turn, tip your cap to your neighbor and eventually the pendulum will swing back to your side.

I wonder why UIL has classifications by the number of kid you have in high school. I know there are exceptions but not the rule. As our enrollment dropped so did the number of kids playing dropped. We went from freshman, soph., JV and varsity, to freshman, jv and varsity.  
as hemphill dropped in numbers so did their the number of kids playing drop. They abandoned their jv and moved them to varsity last year in order to have enough kids to finish the season. They dropped to 2A this coming year. 

[Reagan]

50 minutes ago, purpleeagle said:

I wonder why UIL has classifications by the number of kid you have in high school. I know there are exceptions but not the rule. As our enrollment dropped so did the number of kids playing dropped. We went from freshman, soph., JV and varsity, to freshman, jv and varsity.  
as hemphill dropped in numbers so did their the number of kids playing drop. They abandoned their jv and moved them to varsity last year in order to have enough kids to finish the season. They dropped to 2A this coming year. 

How would you set the classifications?

[purpleeagle]

52 minutes ago, Reagan said:

How would you set the classifications?

UIL has it right. The point is you have more kids to choose from. Teams must buy into the coaches program. At Newton that means an off season weight program. Newton starts with peewee football where kids get interesting in playing football and usually win the championship. This program is coached by a x TCU linebacker. Great man who donates his time that starts newton football on the right track. It is no accident that newton has a winning program.

[purpleeagle]

Nederland’s district will see PNG, Lake creek finishing One and two. Huntsville probably 3rd. Nederland over west fork for forth. Nederland could possibly beat huntsville for third go bulldogs 

[Rez Ipsa]

4 hours ago, purpleeagle said:

Nederland’s district will see PNG, Lake creek finishing One and two. Huntsville probably 3rd. Nederland over west fork for forth. Nederland could possibly beat huntsville for third go bulldogs 

I can’t see Nederland beating Huntsville. 

[89Falcon]

9 hours ago, purpleeagle said:

Nederland’s district will see PNG, Lake creek finishing One and two. Huntsville probably 3rd. Nederland over west fork for forth. Nederland could possibly beat huntsville for third go bulldogs 

WF will contend with Splendora for last place. Nederland will be competing with Dayton and Huntsville for the 3rd and 4th spots. 

[purpleeagle]

Surely you do not mean that Nederland will do no better than Monti did last year with all the starters they have coming back. I thought they hired an elite coach and were headed to state. There will only be 64 teams in their bracket. Should have no problem with PN-G this coming year with that big fat line PN-G has. Probably give up about 40 lbs per man. Should be no problem for an elite coach.

[Reagan]

5 hours ago, purpleeagle said:

Surely you do not mean that Nederland will do no better than Monti did last year with all the starters they have coming back. I thought they hired an elite coach and were headed to state. There will only be 64 teams in their bracket. Should have no problem with PN-G this coming year with that big fat line PN-G has. Probably give up about 40 lbs per man. Should be no problem for an elite coach.

First of all, no assistant coach that has never been a HC can be considered elite.  Second, he will do dramatically better than the previous coach.  Not sure how many wins the first year but they will look much better.  His first year he'll have to have time to install his system.  Plus, he'll have to have time to overcome how badly coached they were last year.  Now, is he a miracle worker and win the district his first year?  I guess anything is possible.  But I wouldn't think that's a good bet.  Second year should show dramatic improvement.  Third year, he should be competing for the District Crown.  

[purpleeagle]

6 hours ago, Reagan said:

First of all, no assistant coach that has never been a HC can be considered elite.  Second, he will do dramatically better than the previous coach.  Not sure how many wins the first year but they will look much better.  His first year he'll have to have time to install his system.  Plus, he'll have to have time to overcome how badly coached they were last year.  Now, is he a miracle worker and win the district his first year?  I guess anything is possible.  But I wouldn't think that's a good bet.  Second year should show dramatic improvement.  Third year, he should be competing for the District Crown.  

Should. Not sure that will happen in a strong district like they are in. PN-G, Lake creek and Huntsville are established teams. 

[Bigdog]

On 4/14/2024 at 6:16 AM, purpleeagle said:

Should. Not sure that will happen in a strong district like they are in. PN-G, Lake creek and Huntsville are established teams. 

Really?  Huntsville was 4-5 for the 21-22 season and  4-7 for '22-23.  Just last year they made a jump into the playoffs. Now Lake Creek has been strong the last couple of years. Again, everything is cyclical.

[hitman009]

On 4/13/2024 at 5:51 PM, purpleeagle said:

Surely you do not mean that Nederland will do no better than Monti did last year with all the starters they have coming back. I thought they hired an elite coach and were headed to state. There will only be 64 teams in their bracket. Should have no problem with PN-G this coming year with that big fat line PN-G has. Probably give up about 40 lbs per man. Should be no problem for an elite coach.

I have a question... I keep seeing the word "elite coach" and it looks like certain teams have it figured out.  Is it really the coach that made the difference or the change by UIL districting with the change from separation from 5A-DI and DII?? 

Looking at PNG's losses the last two years... besides Oak Cliff.. the teams they lost to were beat by WEAK 5-D1 teams and out the first round.. (22-23 Marshall beat by a very weak Crosby team that finished 4th and out first round) (23-24 PA Memorial finished 3rd and out first round).    

[outanup]

26 minutes ago, hitman009 said:

I have a question... I keep seeing the word "elite coach" and it looks like certain teams have it figured out.  Is it really the coach that made the difference or the change by UIL districting with the change from separation from 5A-DI and DII?? 

Looking at PNG's losses the last two years... besides Oak Cliff.. the teams they lost to were beat by WEAK 5-D1 teams and out the first round.. (22-23 Marshall beat by a very weak Crosby team that finished 4th and out first round) (23-24 PA Memorial finished 3rd and out first round).    

There's no doubt the Injuns are as well coached as anyone but, BINGO on the difference in D1 and D2.... Much easier path as of late....

[Rez Ipsa]

17 hours ago, hitman009 said:

I have a question... I keep seeing the word "elite coach" and it looks like certain teams have it figured out.  Is it really the coach that made the difference or the change by UIL districting with the change from separation from 5A-DI and DII?? 

Looking at PNG's losses the last two years... besides Oak Cliff.. the teams they lost to were beat by WEAK 5-D1 teams and out the first round.. (22-23 Marshall beat by a very weak Crosby team that finished 4th and out first round) (23-24 PA Memorial finished 3rd and out first round).    

FBM made it to the 4th round in 22-23. If that’s “weak,” I don’t know what “strong” is. 

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

3 hours ago, Rez Ipsa said:

FBM made it to the 4th round in 22-23. If that’s “weak,” I don’t know what “strong” is. 

Poster I guess forgot about 2022 Port Arthur Memorial as well. (3rd round lost was to Longview who won Region 2). And last year that 1st round game was against Forney who won Region 2 as well. 

[hitman009]

7 hours ago, Rez Ipsa said:

FBM made it to the 4th round in 22-23. If that’s “weak,” I don’t know what “strong” is. 

First reread my post.. never said FBM was weak.. Said they lost to a very weak CROSBY team.   

You are proving my point.... 22-23 FBM made it to 4th round in 5A D-II.. 22-23 FBM lost to Crosby (a 5A D-I team that finished 4th in their district with a 6-5 record and out first round).. so Yea I would say FBM was a very Strong 5A D-II team.. average to WEAK had they been in 5A D-1..

Redistricting to separate 5A DI and DII divisions was huge difference.

[hitman009]

5 hours ago, Mr. Buddy Garrity said:

Poster I guess forgot about 2022 Port Arthur Memorial as well. (3rd round lost was to Longview who won Region 2). And last year that 1st round game was against Forney who won Region 2 as well. 

Yall are proving my point.... What was that score of the 22-23 PNG (5A-DII) vs PAM (5A-DI)??    PNG lost 64-3!!!.. but goes on to the 5A-DII state championship while PA Memorial out 3rd round. What was that 23-24 PNG vs PAM? 24-7 and PAM did lose to Forney that did well in playoffs BUT played Forney 1st round because they finished 3rd in a weak district that only one team made it out of the first round... BH lost in 2nd.. And PNG WINS STATE!!!... 

I take nothing away from PNG. You play who you play and they did well.. but to me if you use logic based on comparison of strength of schedule... PNG would have been out of playoffs 1-2 round had they not changed redistricting to separate D1 and D2.. They usually were 2-3 rounds before the change... so back to my question...

is it the "Elite coach" that makes the difference or redistricting??

 

[AshlyHasBeen]

1 hour ago, hitman009 said:

Yall are proving my point.... What was that score of the 22-23 PNG (5A-DII) vs PAM (5A-DI)??    PNG lost 64-3!!!.. but goes on to the 5A-DII state championship while PA Memorial out 3rd round. What was that 23-24 PNG vs PAM? 24-7 and PAM did lose to Forney that did well in playoffs BUT played Forney 1st round because they finished 3rd in a weak district that only one team made it out of the first round... BH lost in 2nd.. And PNG WINS STATE!!!... 

I take nothing away from PNG. You play who you play and they did well.. but to me if you use logic based on comparison of strength of schedule... PNG would have been out of playoffs 1-2 round had they not changed redistricting to separate D1 and D2.. They usually were 2-3 rounds before the change... so back to my question...

is it the "Elite coach" that makes the difference or redistricting??

 

PNG lost 50-15, not 64-3 in 2022. I'm not sure you can compare where a team is in for a Week 1 non-district game to when the dust settles in the playoffs. Some teams improve dramatically, while other take steps back. When it comes down to it, non-district results don't factor much into what a season is turns into. By that logic you could say PNG could stay in a game with 6A-DI champ Duncanville because Duncanville only beat SOC 23-10 in Week 1. I think we all agree Duncanville is on another level. 

[hitman009]

10 minutes ago, AshlyHasBeen said:

PNG lost 50-15, not 64-3 in 2022. I'm not sure you can compare where a team is in for a Week 1 non-district game to when the dust settles in the playoffs. Some teams improve dramatically, while other take steps back. When it comes down to it, non-district results don't factor much into what a season is turns into. By that logic you could say PNG could stay in a game with 6A-DI champ Duncanville because Duncanville only beat SOC 23-10 in Week 1. I think we all agree Duncanville is on another level. 

sorry on score.. Maxpreps has it 64-3.. Either way PA wins big..

Agreed Duncanville is on different level and beat SOC by 2 scores. SOC also lost that year to Lancaster (5A-1) by 2 scores who lost in 2nd round.  I know these games are early, but its also early for the teams that won those games. What else can you use as comparison when asking my question?

I think my question is interesting but very few want to address it I guess 

[PN-G bamatex]

8 hours ago, AshlyHasBeen said:

PNG lost 50-15, not 64-3 in 2022. I'm not sure you can compare where a team is in for a Week 1 non-district game to when the dust settles in the playoffs. Some teams improve dramatically, while other take steps back. When it comes down to it, non-district results don't factor much into what a season is turns into. By that logic you could say PNG could stay in a game with 6A-DI champ Duncanville because Duncanville only beat SOC 23-10 in Week 1. I think we all agree Duncanville is on another level. 

To your point, it’s worth noting that the 50-15 loss was PN-G’s first game under a new coach. I think most PN-G fans would agree that the 2022 Indians didn’t fully settle into Joseph’s system until late in the regular season.

[PN-G bamatex]

8 hours ago, hitman009 said:

sorry on score.. Maxpreps has it 64-3.. Either way PA wins big..

Agreed Duncanville is on different level and beat SOC by 2 scores. SOC also lost that year to Lancaster (5A-1) by 2 scores who lost in 2nd round.  I know these games are early, but its also early for the teams that won those games. What else can you use as comparison when asking my question?

I think my question is interesting but very few want to address it I guess 

5ADII PN-G beat 6A Beaumont United 49-0 and 45-14 in 2022 and 2023. 4ADII WO-S played the eventual 5ADII state champion Indians to overtime in 2023. If it all boils down to just attendance numbers, explain those facts to me.

[SmashMouth]

22 hours ago, hitman009 said:

so back to my question...

is it the "Elite coach" that makes the difference or redistricting??

Does it have to be one or the other? Can’t it be both?

[purpleeagle]

1 hour ago, SmashMouth said:

Does it have to be one or the other? Can’t it be both?

None of the above. It’s a dang good coach, exceptionally good players and a little luck.