Png 2023 ??

[Reagan]

I can see the "blame the kids" echo chamber is alive and well on the forum.  But, I think the list is getting shorter!  Remember, this same bunch would have you believe there's not any difference between the Nederland coach and the Carthage coach.  The difference is just "the kids!"  LOL!!

[Razor]

I will use and extreme example, but let's just say the KC Chiefs play Sabine Pass in football?  If Sabine Pass loses, is it the coaches fault exclusively or do maybe the players/level of talent have something to do with it??

Just labeling your argument as "blaming the kids" is easy and frankly lazy IMO...if you portray someone as putting all the blame on the poor kiddos, it's easy to paint those folks as villains...the bottom line is that sometimes you just don't have the Jimmy's and Joe's...you need good coaching AND good players to have serious success

[SmashMouth]

1 hour ago, Razor said:

I will use and extreme example, but let's just say the KC Chiefs play Sabine Pass in football?  If Sabine Pass loses, is it the coaches fault exclusively or do maybe the players/level of talent have something to do with it??

Just labeling your argument as "blaming the kids" is easy and frankly lazy IMO...if you portray someone as putting all the blame on the poor kiddos, it's easy to paint those folks as villains...the bottom line is that sometimes you just don't have the Jimmy's and Joe's...you need good coaching AND good players to have serious success

Although the example is pretty extreme, the logic makes sense. It is a combination of things… the school board/community play a very large role as well.

[Mr. Thornton Melon]

1 hour ago, Razor said:

I will use and extreme example, but let's just say the KC Chiefs play Sabine Pass in football?  If Sabine Pass loses, is it the coaches fault exclusively or do maybe the players/level of talent have something to do with it??

Just labeling your argument as "blaming the kids" is easy and frankly lazy IMO...if you portray someone as putting all the blame on the poor kiddos, it's easy to paint those folks as villains...the bottom line is that sometimes you just don't have the Jimmy's and Joe's...you need good coaching AND good players to have serious success

 Comparing  Sabine Pass athletes to KC Chiefs athletes.    🤔

 

 

 

 

[oldschool2]

1 hour ago, Razor said:

I will use and extreme example, but let's just say the KC Chiefs play Sabine Pass in football?  If Sabine Pass loses, is it the coaches fault exclusively or do maybe the players/level of talent have something to do with it??

Just labeling your argument as "blaming the kids" is easy and frankly lazy IMO...if you portray someone as putting all the blame on the poor kiddos, it's easy to paint those folks as villains...the bottom line is that sometimes you just don't have the Jimmy's and Joe's...you need good coaching AND good players to have serious success

Sounds like you're a kid blamer.  In 7 years time or less, an elite coach would beat the KC Chiefs with Sabine Pass.  I said what I said.

[Razor]

It was an extreme example on purpose...the point is, just saying that any coach should be able to win no matter the talent level is ridiculous.

 

[oldschool2]

27 minutes ago, Razor said:

It was an extreme example on purpose...the point is, just saying that any coach should be able to win no matter the talent level is ridiculous.

 

But.... that's exactly what is being claimed.  By a specific person I mean.

[Reagan]

3 hours ago, Mr. Thornton Melon said:

 Comparing  Sabine Pass athletes to KC Chiefs athletes.    🤔

 

 

 

 

Some tend to get silly when losing an argument.  Which the echo chamber is clearly doing here. 

[Reagan]

3 hours ago, oldschool2 said:

Sounds like you're a kid blamer.  In 7 years time or less, an elite coach would beat the KC Chiefs with Sabine Pass.  I said what I said.

Glad you finally are recognizing it and owning up to being part of "blaming the kids" echo chamber!  So, this also makes you a firm believer that there is no difference between the Vidor coach and the Carthage coach!  Just the "kids!"

[Bigdog]

14 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Glad you finally are recognizing it and owning up to being part of "blaming the kids" echo chamber!  So, this also makes you a firm believer that there is no difference between the Vidor coach and the Carthage coach!  Just the "kids!"

Reminds me of the Motley Crue song,  "Don't go away mad ...."

[Reagan]

11 minutes ago, Bigdog said:

Reminds me of the Motley Crue song,  "Don't go away mad ...."

Is that an “echo” I’m hearing?!   😁

[WOSdrummer99]

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[Rez Ipsa]

What if we modified 7-Year Rule? In 7 years, you only learn about a coach’s ability to make THAT school good. It’s possible that same coach goes to a different school and wins state. It’s also possible an elite, winning coach at one program goes to a different school and doesn’t do as well (example: Westerberg from Allen to BH. BH got better under him, but didn’t ever get past the 3rd round). But, when a school board evaluates a coach’s performance, they only have to care what the coach is doing at THAT school. So, in 7 years you’ll have a full picture of what the likely ceiling of that coach is at that school, and if the ceiling isn’t high enough after 7 years it’s appropriate to think about trying something different. 

[Reagan]

19 minutes ago, Rez Ipsa said:

What if we modified 7-Year Rule? In 7 years, you only learn about a coach’s ability to make THAT school good. It’s possible that same coach goes to a different school and wins state. It’s also possible an elite, winning coach at one program goes to a different school and doesn’t do as well (example: Westerberg from Allen to BH. BH got better under him, but didn’t ever get past the 3rd round). But, when a school board evaluates a coach’s performance, they only have to care what the coach is doing at THAT school. So, in 7 years you’ll have a full picture of what the likely ceiling of that coach is at that school, and if the ceiling isn’t high enough after 7 years it’s appropriate to think about trying something different. 

The point is you can.  The 7 year rule is mine.  And that's a school to school rule.  Every time a coach moves to a new school then the time is reset.   After doing a little studying, I found the average, on the Championship coaches I looked at, on winning their first Title is 4 years.  Again, I added 3 years.  A school can put any amount of years to hold the coach accountable.  It can be 7, 10, 12 or whatever.  But, there's a caveat:  The school and fans have to care about winning a Title.  No need to be concerned about years and accountability if you don't care.  People are held accountable all the time in the private sector so why not the public sector as well?!  

[AggiesAreWe]

41 minutes ago, Reagan said:

The point is you can.  The 7 year rule is mine.  And that's a school to school rule.  Every time a coach moves to a new school then the time is reset.   After doing a little studying, I found the average, on the Championship coaches I looked at, on winning their first Title is 4 years.  Again, I added 3 years.  A school can put any amount of years to hold the coach accountable.  It can be 7, 10, 12 or whatever.  But, there's a caveat:  The school and fans have to care about winning a Title.  No need to be concerned about years and accountability if you don't care.  People are held accountable all the time in the private sector so why not the public sector as well?!  

So in the private sector, if one doesn't win the Nobel Peace Prize in 7 years, he/she is a failure, correct?

[Reagan]

6 minutes ago, AggiesAreWe said:

So in the private sector, if one doesn't win the Nobel Peace Prize in 7 years, he/she is a failure, correct?

Again, my friend -- you are stretching!  LOL!  Is this something like why can't Sabine Pass complete with the KC Chiefs argument?!  Again, LOL!   But, I'll play the game:  If someone is hired to win the Nobel Peace Prize and is paid big bucks to do it the, yes, there should be a time frame.  Don't you think?  People in the private sector get fired all the time for non performance of the required goals.  

[AggiesAreWe]

1 minute ago, Reagan said:

Again, my friend -- you are stretching!  LOL!   People in the private sector get fired all the time for non performance of the required goals.  

People don't get fired for never ever getting employee of the year, month. They just do the job.

[Reagan]

1 minute ago, AggiesAreWe said:

People don't get fired for never ever getting employee of the year, month. They just do the job.

Is that the stated goals and are they paid big bucks to achieve that?  

[AggiesAreWe]

1 minute ago, Reagan said:

Is that the stated goals and are they paid big bucks to achieve that?  

In some cases, yes.

[Reagan]

11 minutes ago, AggiesAreWe said:

So in the private sector, if one doesn't win the Nobel Peace Prize in 7 years, he/she is a failure, correct?

If a CEO runs a company into the ground and drives the stock down, say, from $200 to 2 dollars, i'll guarantee you, my friend, this CEO will get fired for non performance!  

[AggiesAreWe]

1 minute ago, Reagan said:

If a CEO runs a company into the ground and drives the stock down, say, from $200 to 2 dollars, i'll guarantee you, my friend, this CEO will get fired for non performance!  

The argument isn't about being bad at your job. It's about being good enough.

[Reagan]

4 minutes ago, AggiesAreWe said:

The argument isn't about being bad at your job. It's about being good enough.

It all depends whether people believe in accountability.  Good is a relative term.  Like decent or acceptable.  I tend to lean towards the term great.  If you are paying big bucks for a service would you want just a good job or a great job?  It's just like holding on to a coach for 24 years with a losing record.  Not my idea of being held accountable.  But, again, the fans and the Admin has to care in order to make this judgement.    

[Reagan]

Just came across another coach who won Titles within 7 years.  I'd say 90% of the time a Championship-type coach will achieve this!

TEDDY GRAY
12 years; 97-34-4; 6-6-2
1969  Refugio                      6-4-0
1970  Refugio                    14-0-1*
1971  Refugio                    10-2-0*
1972  Freer                        10-2-0*
1973  Calallen                      3-6-1
1974  Calallen                      6-4-0
1975  Calallen                      8-1-1
1976  Dickinson                 10-1-0*
1977  Dickinson                 13-1-0*
1978  Dickinson                   5-5-0
1979  Refugio                      9-1-1*
              —retired—
1983  Bastrop                      3-7-0

[oldschool2]

On 2/23/2023 at 3:50 PM, Reagan said:

Glad you finally are recognizing it and owning up to being part of "blaming the kids" echo chamber!  So, this also makes you a firm believer that there is no difference between the Vidor coach and the Carthage coach!  Just the "kids!"

If you can’t admit that there are obvious cases of a team with enough talent for deep runs… and a team without enough talent for a deep run, then you’re very deserving of all the posts that are obviously making fun of you.

True or false: The Carthage coach could beat Katy within 7 years spent at Sabine Pass.

Give a one word response.  True…. Or…. False

[Reagan]

6 hours ago, oldschool2 said:

If you can’t admit that there are obvious cases of a team with enough talent for deep runs… and a team without enough talent for a deep run, then you’re very deserving of all the posts that are obviously making fun of you.

True or false: The Carthage coach could beat Katy within 7 years spent at Sabine Pass.

Give a one word response.  True…. Or…. False

I just stopped laughing!  I can you are still trying to perfect your silliness.  I may need to start calling you the "Silly Perfecter!"  

First of all, my 7 year program is for teams to win State within their classifications.  Therefore I never said anything like what you stated.  No one has ever asked, say, Sabine Pass to compete with, say, Katy to win a Title.  Not going to happen.  So, if Surratt goes to Sabine Pass then yes, I can see him winning a Title in 7 years.  Carthage never won a Title until he got there.  

Look, there are some here who blame the kids and there are some here that blame the coach.  You talk about playoff runs, why is it that Carthage can and those in the same district can't.  Sounds like coaching to me.  It's always interested me why schools can never win a Title.  But then a certain type of coach comes in and starts winning Titles.  I not a firm believer in "the kids just started showing up when this coach did!"  I just don't think the Vidor coach, if he was there,  could have done the same thing as Dodge did at Southlake Carroll and Westlake.  Then again, I think one poster actually said Dodge wasn't that good.  He just had the right kids.  But, it's all speculation anyway and my opinion!!