MackLewis

3 minutes ago, LCMAlumtiger32 said:

Ennis didn’t have athletes? 

Had great athletes.   So does Jasper.   Jasper has as many athletes, 3 divisions lower.

On 1/22/2022 at 4:52 PM, MackLewis said:

If Alvarez wants to job, it’s his.   Keep Bronson as the DC, and great things will happen.   Coach A knows how to build a program, and take a program that’s already solid to the next level.

 

He’s always had great DC’s.  Bryan Barbay, Vanya, hired WT away from Newton.   Bronson would learn wonders from Jack and benefit from coaching under him as he did Coach Barbay.

 

All assuming Alvarez even applies of course.   But that would be a great combo.

If they get Coach A, and keep Bronson as DC, they become a state contender in 3 years.

Alvarez has never coached the caliber of athletes he’s about to coach.    It will be interesting to see what kind of program he builds and sustains there.   
 

IMO he’s one of the better coaches in the state of Texas.   What he did at Kirbyville was nothing short of a miracle.

On 1/31/2022 at 9:06 PM, Reagan said:

This is an interesting statement.  Care to elaborate?  

My father was on the staff, and I was on the practice field and sideline every practice and game.

You can say I was pretty close to the program during the Malone years.

He caught lightening in a bottle in 89.   Teams like Consolidated, and LaMarque throughout the 90’s (up until 99) woulda been hard for PNG to get past.

Not sure what makes you think differently.   Other than any decent coach should win a state title within 7 years, which is not accurate or based in reality.

On 1/31/2022 at 7:40 PM, pine curtain said:

not even in 1999 when burnett got them to the state game?

 

I don’t think anyone was gonna bear Art and Kendall Briles that game.

6 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

No..... the administration has made it clear that winning football games is not a priority.  

Righting the wrongs of the past is.  

He could reel off 30 losses in a row (he won't) and he has nothing to worry about.  It's a slam dunk lawsuit... when has WOS ever fired a white coach?  Racism, plain and simple. 

Your shtick is old.   
 

Signed, middle aged, conservative white guy!

3 hours ago, Reagan said:

I'll ask you:  Did the "personel" just show up when Surratt at Carthage (after 84 years of no State Title) and Buchanan at Aledo showed up?  Of course not!!  They were there before.  The coach was the difference!   Again, letting a coach go, it all depends on where you set the bar.  My bar is high.  The PNG coach had 12 years.  Does that mean he was treated unfairly?  I wouldn't think so.  But, I knew after 7-8 years that a State Title wasn't in PNG's future.  Maybe the Superintendent and board members realized the same thing.  Like I've said before -- if one's expectations are low, then they'l be met EVERY time!

Would Surratt duplicate that success at Orangefield?

Carthage was a sleeping giant…. Much like Jasper is.   Sure, it takes the right coach, and some luck to get the ball rolling and the program up and off the ground.

IMO Surratt is one of the best coaches in the state, but just because he’s done it at Carthage don’t mean he would replace Danaher and won titles there.

39 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Basically same athletes!  If I recall, Malone took them to one game away from State.  Got to face it folks, it's about the coaching!  

Got beat down in the quarters by A&M Consolidated who was superior athletically.

If Malone woulda stayed 20 years he woulda never won state.  

13 hours ago, Majestyk said:

WOS will be WOS. They will just turn the page and move on.  They haven't lost a district game in like 12 years and I see no reason for that to change.  Recent events has some folk imagining premature tales of woe, raising hopes that after 50+ years the bully(WOS) is finally losing it.  Not gonna happen.  This reminds me of that movie where all these folk are fleeing Godzilla(WOS),,,running, screaming, panting, pooting......but they finally lose a step and are.....well.....kilt.  I am really looking forward to the Coach Hickman era at WOS.

In all fairness, you could probably find someone at Wal Mart and maybe even OCARC and go undefeated in that district with the athletes WOS has.

It’s not if you win district, but how they win. WOS don’t usually know what they have until 2nd or 3rd round. 

On 1/26/2022 at 7:40 AM, KF89 said:

What was the case against Ferguson?

He was fired, or resigned from Shelbyville back in 2016 or 2017, for domestic violence.   It was a pretty bad case too (not that any case is good).

But like I said a few days ago, not sure what ever happened with that case.   Apparently he’s coaching at Carlisle, so maybe charges were dismissed or reduced.

The guy is a heckuva coach though.  

3 hours ago, AggiesAreWe said:

I was told by a few coaches from the area that don't be surprised when the list comes out on how few applied.

The winningest program in the state of Texas and they get 13 applications?

There has to be some good reasons for that.   

3 hours ago, Mr. Buddy Garrity said:

I'm more surprised nothing was said about Coach Ferguson applying, I didn't know anything about it. It wasn't said on the other site either from what I've noticed. 

I’m surprised as well.  I didn’t know he was even coaching after the reason he got ran off from Shelbyville…. But not sure how that case was even resolved either.

Ferguson was a damn good football coach.   Maybe the best coach on that list.    But WOS did well staying away from him.

7 hours ago, Separation Scientist said:

Calallen at the "Pinnacle"? Last year they won 1 playoff game (Zapata, who ever that is), year before they went two rounds, Grulla (who ever that is) and Canyon Lake.

Danaher and Calallen has had a very easy glide path though their district, and at least through the first round or two. They can rack up a ton of wins but then they soon go out when the competition is real.  

Put Danaher and Calallen in region 2 or 3 and those 40 years would look different. Still good but much different.    

Calallen was playing with the same caliber players in region 4 as everyone else.   It wasn’t like he was playing with North Shore talent vs everyone else.   But, you’re right, he built a program down there that was the king of region 4 and he ran through the region until he played region 3.   
 

Not sure it was the coaching that got him beat, it was usually lack of talent.

Not sure about the last 2 years.   I’m sure the early on-set dementia he talked about about doesn’t help any coach.

Either way, it’s a shame he never won one.

Congrats to Coach Hickman!   May WOS have continued success and be one of the premier programs in the state of Texas.

I didn’t know, but WOS has 62 consecutive district wins, dating back to 2009, and that’s the 6th longest streak in history.   

I wouldn’t expect that to change either.   Who will be on the non-district schedule, and who will be in region 3?    Next week we should find out. 

5 minutes ago, LCMAlumtiger32 said:

Heck he needs to try to coach a youth football game. I bet he doesn’t win a championship in 7 years.  It’s alot easier to talk about it then doing it. Kids have a lot of outside distractions that cause them not to stay focused 

I think he must play a bunch of Madden.   
 

It’s so easy to win a super bowl playing the Rookie level…. Why can’t they do that at the high school level.

7 hours ago, Cougar14.2 said:

Not fast at all. PNG doesn't have near the talent level comparable to their classification that Carthage does. Plus, Surratt already makes over $150k at Carthage and I doubt PNG can touch that. They would probably feel the same way BH does about Westerberg and his titles at Allen. 

Bingo. 

7 hours ago, Reagan said:

First of all, let me say Doug Ethridge spanked Les Koenning in the Astrodome during a playoff run.  Another fact!  

Now, With Newton and Barbay:  There are no guarantees.  True I would have missed that one.  But, that's like 1% of the total.  The point is:  Do you let a coach stay there 30 years with the "hope" that he may start winning a state title?  Again, not me.  I miss a few along the way.  But that percentage is small.  Why?  Because there are not that many state championship-type coaches out there. 

Now Phil Danaher is an interesting situation:   I'm pretty sure he ran a respectable program through the years.  But -- one has to wonder why he couldn't bring it to the next level.  My thought, he's not one of the 10% out there that could.  But if the taxpayers, fan base and administration was happy going a couple of rounds in the playoffs and then going home, well, more power to them!  Again, that's where they set the bar!

Now a little speculation and a fact:  Concerning Faircloth:  Does anyone think that if he took over at Carthage right now that within 7 years he could win a State Title and replicate what Surratt has done?  That's the speculation part.  Now the fact:  Before Surratt got there -- no one did!!  Was he just so lucky that the talent only showed up at Carthage when he did??!!  I don't think any one here can honestly believe that!!

No one has ever done what Surratt has ever done, so I wouldn’t expect Faircloth to.

Danaher won more games than anyone ever in Texas ever has, so pretty sure he knows how to coach.     Talk about next level…. Outside of winning a state title (which is extremely difficult) Danaher had Calallen at the pinnacle for 40 years.

Danaher had Calallen in around 10 semifinals and 2 state title games.   Every time losing to a team with much much more talent than he had.  And they came close to winning several of them, because of him, not in spite of his coaching. 
 

Your expectations of a state championship are no where close to reality.   Not even close.   Ask anyone who has ever coached, and better yet, that has won one.

48 minutes ago, PhatMack19 said:

Text I got from the meeting 

 

We want Toby chants

Roderick no showed 

Open forum, people are accusing Supt of throwing away applications and resumes 

Hickman whole family there listening to them shred him 

Helluva way to start it off.    The citizens have a right to be upset,  but I truly hate it for Coach Hickman and his family having to sit through that.

11 minutes ago, CoogsWompWomp said:

I’m sure coaches will line up to coach PNG wit the attitude that guy has. 

No kidding.   I’m not certain the NFL model of firing coaches will work at the high school level.    Wouldn’t want a bunch of Jerry Jones on my local school board firing coaches every 6 years. 

9 minutes ago, Reagan said:

I've seen PNG, under Doug Ethridge, beat teams that were more talented, physically and speed wise than PNG.  So, yes, it's possible.  Look, you are right, 90% of the coaches can't hang in State Championship-type category.  But, does that mean you stop looking?  If i'm going to pay a coach big bucks then much is expected!  

How many years ago should Calallen have fired Danaher?

In what year between 1975 and 1998 should Newton have fired Curtis Barbay?

Jack Alvarez was at Kirbyville for 12 years.   He went to 2 title games, but should he have been fired for failing to win them.   What have they done since he’s left?   What did Kirbyville look like from 1988-2000 before he Coach A showed up?

Perspective and realistic expectations my man!!!

2 minutes ago, Reagan said:

I've seen PNG, under Doug Ethridge, beat teams that were more talented, physically and speed wise than PNG.  So, yes, it's possible.  Look, you are right, 90% of the coaches can't hang in State Championship-type category.  But, does that mean you stop looking?  If i'm going to pay a coach big bucks then much is expected!  

How long ago was that?   Has the landscape of high school football changed?

Is PNG a growing community like it was in the 60’s and 70’s?  Or is the community, like SE Texas as a whole is a bit of state of decline?

There are a lot of factors as to why present day PNG is not the PNG of the 60’s and 70’s.   Growth and talent pool is 2 of them.

2 minutes ago, Reagan said:

12 years and no State Championships.  Facts don't care about your feelings!  But, I'll say this, he's on par with coaches that are just good coaches.  As of now, he's not in the category of State Championship-type coach.

If and when Faircloth leaves for Sulpher Springs, those that wanted him gone, and those that believe all coaches should deliver a state title in a given time frame, will find out that changing a coach does not mean it gets any better.

IMO, the 3rd or 4th round is the ceiling (or realistic expectation) PNG should expect.

10 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Let me get this straight:  A coaches goal is the State Title.  So this is what they expect from themselves.  But, then, are you telling us that WE should't expect the same from them what they expect from themselves?!  Interesting!!

That’s the goal in every program.   That’s what they attempt to sell to the kids, whether it’s achievable or not.   The coaches ARE NOT stupid.   They know the teams they have, and the competition they face.

As a fan you can want the same.   Just have realistic expectations.   A wish, want, or expectation are not the same.

Was it achievable or reasonable for PNG to beat Crosby?   What about South Oak Cliff?

Could they have played Crosby tougher?   Probably!  But beat them, absolutely not.   If you watched the game, you clearly saw that.   I watch on Texan Live from Santa Rosa Beach, FL.   PNG wasn’t beating Crosby with Faircloth, or Jimmy Johnson.

Have realistic expectations.   

Newton better count their blessings that they didn’t consult with Reagan in the late 70’s, through the 80’s and 90’s.

In 1974 Newton won state, only to have Coach Lyndee Thompson leave to go to another school.   So they promote the offensive coordinator for the 1975 season.   It took Newton 23 years to win another state championship.  So according to Reagan, Curtis Barbay, the 8th all-time winningest coach in the state of Texas woulda been canned in the mid-80’s for not delivering a state title.

Other schools like Hampshire-Fannett has done what you advocate.   HF had UIL hall-of-fame coach Les Koenning, who is one of the most respected coaches in the state of Texas, all time, as their head coach.  In 1974, HF was #1 in the state.   They lose to #2 Newton (see above) in the 1st round of the playoffs.

In 1975, HF was #1 again, only to lose in the 4th round, to the eventual state runner-ups.    So in 2 years Les Koenning went 23-2, and people in the community were up in arms, and he didn’t get renewed.   HF has never sniffed that success again.

Winning a state title is much harder than you make it out to be.   Sometimes perspective is hard to come by and keep.  
 

Ask Randy Allen at Highland Park… he didn’t win a title at Brownwood, following Gordon Wood.   He also didn’t win one at Abilene Cooper.   Turns out he knows how to coach despite not winning a title.

Same with Phil Danaher and countless others.

12 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Ask any coach when the season starts and see what THEIR goals are.  Their goal is to win District then win the State Title.  So, yes, there success is based on winning a State Title.  What, you feel that paying a HC big sums of money just to have a descent football team is OK for 20-25 years or longer?  Again, it all depends where the bar is set.

You are right, everyone’s ultimate goal is a state title.   Coaches are competitive, but not naive or dumb.

In every classification, on any given year, there’s only about 10 schools with a realistic chance of winning a championship. With about 225 schools in each class (on average), only 10 schools have a realistic goal of winning a title.   So every 5 or 6 years, the 200+ schools in every class without a title needs to move on from their coach?  
 

The only one not being realistic is you.

51 minutes ago, Reagan said:

You forget to add that he's been there 12 years and no State Championships and no State Championship appearances.  Maybe there are those that finally had enough.  If someone can't do it in 12 years, you think they will be able to do it in 24 years?  After about 7 or 8 years you'll know if a coach is capable.  

Does PN-G have the talent level to win it in 5A D1 or 5A D2?   It should always be the ultimate goal, but not a prerequisite for keeping your job.

Don’t judge every school the same standard as you would Katy, GPNS, Carthage, Aledo and the likes.