WO-S vs BYE

[Dirty_but_Dazzling]

5 hours ago, Looper said:

Both parties are partially right here. Looking at the video the penalty is offensive holding on a play resulting in the time continuing to run. The flag stops the clock for penalty enforcement (10 yards and replay the down) to be restarted on the "ready for play whistle". This is an offensive penalty and carries a 10 second run off unless the offense uses a timeout. By these accounts the game should have ended due to the penalty. The crew messed this up.

But you can only go by what actually happened so....

3rd down: WOS snaps as soon as the ready for play whistle is blown and spikes the ball. This play takes 1 maybe 2 seconds tops leaving 1 second left to snap the ball for 4th down. The true game time is held on the field with the back judge who would be prepared to stop the clock in these situations. So with greater than 0 seconds left on the official game clock WOs is able to play 4th down. If the clock operator makes an error and runs it to zero it should be corrected but in all honesty as long as the coaches and players know there is still time for a play to be ran then the scoreboard doesn't matter. In this case it seems it was easier for the official to call it an untimed down instead of taking 1-2 minutes to get the operators attention to put 1 second on since there is only time for 1 final play barring a defensive penalty. Fans may be upset and not understand whats happening but the coaches appear to be informed of whats happening

 

 

bout breaking the huddle with 12 players there at the end? the announcer even says it.   

[Looper]

2 hours ago, Dirty_but_Dazzling said:

bout breaking the huddle with 12 players there at the end? the announcer even says it.   

They missed that too I guess? I don’t know what else you want said bud, join a chapter if you’re this upset

[Dirty_but_Dazzling]

17 minutes ago, Looper said:

They missed that too I guess? I don’t know what else you want said bud, join a chapter if you’re this upset

just curious. that night I was upset buy since then only trying to get the pals and Homer's to understand they caught some breaks(to say the least).

if a person here in Jasper wanted to join a chapter Beaumont would be the one? Does Lufkin have one?

[Looper]

9 hours ago, Dirty_but_Dazzling said:

just curious. that night I was upset buy since then only trying to get the pals and Homer's to understand they caught some breaks(to say the least).

if a person here in Jasper wanted to join a chapter Beaumont would be the one? Does Lufkin have one?

There is a chapter that runs out of Nacogdoches.

[Dirty_but_Dazzling]

LOL!The silence is deafening in here now.The moment it was verified that I was right it went from the most popular to the most quiet.

GO DAWGS GO!!

[SmashMouth]

17 minutes ago, Dirty_but_Dazzling said:

LOL!The silence is deafening in here now.The moment it was verified that I was right it went from the most popular to the most quiet.

GO DAWGS GO!!

Nope. You were wrong then and you're wrong now. 

And please don't join an officiating crew/chapter. You will bring a new low to officiating in SE Texas!

[AggiesAreWe]

39 minutes ago, Dirty_but_Dazzling said:

LOL!The silence is deafening in here now.The moment it was verified that I was right it went from the most popular to the most quiet.

GO DAWGS GO!!

Not really.

Points were made. No sense in continuing to argue them.

I'm satisfied with what I stated.

[Dirty_but_Dazzling]

1 hour ago, AggiesAreWe said:

Not really.

Points were made. No sense in continuing to argue them.

I'm satisfied with what I stated.

Exactly.

[pine curtain]

On 10/24/2023 at 10:59 AM, SmashMouth said:

Extension of Periods
ARTICLE 3. a. A period shall be extended for an untimed down if one or more
of the following occurs during a down in which time expires (A.R. 3-2-3-I-VIII):
1. A penalty is accepted for a live-ball foul(s) (Exception: Rule 10-2-5-
a). At the option of the offended team, the period is not extended if
the foul is by the team in possession and the statement of the penalty
includes loss of down (A.R. 3-2-3-VIII).
2. There are offsetting fouls.
3. An official sounds their whistle inadvertently or otherwise incorrectly
signals the ball dead.
b. Additional untimed downs will be played until a down is free of the
circumstances in statements 1, 2 and 3 of Rule 3-2-3-a (above).
c. If a touchdown is scored during a down in which time in a period expires,
the period is extended for the try (Exception: Rule 8-3-2-a).

If the official incorrectly signaled the ball dead, then an untimed down is appropriate. That's the rule that has me curious. I don't know if that's happened one way or the other. I'm merely stating contrary to our riled up little bulldog that there are other circumstances for an extended period after time has expired (see above).

@Dirty_but_Dazzling, you clearly stated the only reason for an untimed down was for a defensive penalty. You were wrong. Own it. Sorry to break it to you, but you can't have it both ways. You can't be right and wrong at the same time. You also said "NO TIME = END OF GAME". Wrong again mama...

COLLEGE FOOTBALL OFFICIATING, LLC

TEN-SECOND SUBTRACTION FROM THE GAME CLOCK

The making of the rules can be a fascinating process, illustrated perfectly by this new rule. Often one game can grab the attention of the country in such a way that a consensus quickly forms around the need happened. The story of one of the 2010 bowl games was that the offensive team apparently created an unfair clock advantage that allowed them to kick a game-tying field goal and subsequently win the game in overtime. Largely as a result of that game, the rules committee in 2011 approved a rule that deals with a team gaining a clock advantage by committing a foul late in the game.

 

Rule 3-4-4 

10-Second Subtraction from Game Clock ARTICLE 4.

a. With the game clock running and less than one minute remaining in either half, if a player of either team commits a foul that causes the clock to stop, the officials may subtract 10 seconds from the game clock at the option of the offended team. The fouls that fall in this category include but are not limited to:

(1) Any foul that prevents the snap (e.g., false start, encroachment, defensive offside by contact in the neutral zone, etc.);
(2) Intentional grounding to stop the clock;
(3) Incomplete illegal forward pass;

(4) Backward pass thrown out of bounds to stop the clock;
(5) Any other foul committed with the intent of stopping the clock.
The offended team may accept the yardage penalty and decline the 10-second subtraction. If the yardage penalty is declined the 10-second subtraction is declined by rule.
b. The 10-second rule does not apply if the game clock is not running when the foul occurs or if the foul does not cause the game clock to stop (e.g., illegal formation).
c. After enforcement of the penalty and 10-second subtraction (if any) the game clock

 

d. If the fouling team has a timeout remaining it may avoid the 10-second subtraction by using a timeout. In this case the game clock starts on the snap after the timeout.

The rule some examples.

1. The rule applies only if the game clock is running inside one minute of either half. With one or more minutes in the half the referee has broad discretion about when to start and stop the clock under Rule 3-4-3. It is only when the game clock reads 0:59 or less that this new rule comes into effect, and then only if the game clock is running when the foul is committed. If the previous play had been an incomplete pass, for example, the game clock would not be running so the new rule would not apply.

2. The rule applies equally to either team. We tend to think of the offense as the team trying to manipulate the clockof the two teams the offense is more in control of the pace of the gamebut the rule applies to the defense as well. It may be that the defense is behind and thus wants to get the clock stopped, so it commits a foulby, say, jumping offside to make contact. The same rule applies to Team B as to Team A. Those familiar with the NFL rule will recognize a difference here: the 10-second subtraction rule in the NFL only applies to Team A.

3. Only those fouls that cause the clock to stop are affected by this rule. There is some confusion on this point, which sometimes arises out of not understanding the difference between a foul and a penalty. For example, if a team commits a false start, the officials shut the play down; this is a foul that stops the clock. But if a team snaps the ball when it has five players in the backfieldan illegal formationthe play continues: this is not a foul that stops the clock. Of course once the ball is dead the clock is stopped, but this is to administer the penalty; the clock is not stopped because of the foul itself.

4. The 10-second subtraction is not automatic: the offended team has the option.

There could be circumstances where the offended team would not want the time taken off the clock, perhaps in the hope that it would get possession of the ball with time remaining. The offended team may accept the yardage penalty and elect not to have time taken off the clock. But if it declines the yardage penalty the 10-second subtraction does not apply.

5. Intent is not an issue in applying this rule. It could be that the fouling team does not intend to commit the foulan unintentional false start is the usual examplebut that with anything.

   

6. The fouling team may avoid the 10-second subtraction if it has a timeout to use. It is unlikely that this team would foul in the situation where it has a timeout, but it could happen, so in such a case it could use the timeout and avoid the 10-second subtraction.

PLAY SITUATIONS
1. Second and 10 at the B-30. The game clock is running in the second half. Team A trails by two points and is out of timeouts. After the ball is ready for play lineman A66 commits a false start, and when the officials stop the game clock it reads (a) 13 seconds; (b) 8 seconds. Team B accepts the yardage penalty and the time subtraction. RULING: (a) Five-yard penalty with 10 seconds subtracted from the game clock, which is set at 3 seconds. Second and 15 at the B-35. The game is over. Team B wins.

2. Second and 10 at the B-30. The game clock is running in the second half. Team A trails by two points and is out of timeouts. At the snap Team A has five players in the backfield. A22 carries for a three-yard gain to the B-27. When the ball is declared dead the game clock reads (a) 13 seconds; (b) 8 seconds. RULING: (a) and (b) Five-yard penalty, illegal formation. Second and 15 at the B-35. Because the illegal formation is not a foul that causes the clock to stop, the 10-second subtraction does not apply. After the penalty is administered the game clock s

3. Team A is leading 24-21 with less than one minute in the game and the game clock running. With the ball ready for play on third and seven at the B-35, tackle B55 jumps across the neutral zone and contacts A77. The officials shut the play down with the game clock showing 0:38. Team B is out of timeouts. RULING: Offside against Team B. Five-yard penalty and a 10-second subtraction from the game clock. The game clock is set at 0:28. Third and two at the B-40. 

4. Team A is in punt formation on fourth and 12 at the A-30. The score is tied with less than one minute remaining in regulation and the game clock is running. Team A is out of timeouts. Guard A66 commits a false start, stopping the game clock at 0:45. RULING: This is a situation where Team B might choose to accept the yardage penalty but decline the 10-second subtraction, since they will probably get the ball. If so, it is fourth and 17 at the A-25 and the game clock starts on the snap. If Team B allows the 10-second subtraction along with the five-  signal. Note that if Team B declines the yardage penalty there is no 10-second subtraction and the game clock starts on the snap.

[pine curtain]

15 hours ago, Dirty_but_Dazzling said:

just curious. that night I was upset buy since then only trying to get the pals and Homer's to understand they caught some breaks(to say the least).

if a person here in Jasper wanted to join a chapter Beaumont would be the one? Does Lufkin have one?

The SFA chapter out of Lufkin would be more in your area.

[SmashMouth]

5 minutes ago, pine curtain said:

COLLEGE FOOTBALL OFFICIATING, LLC

TEN-SECOND SUBTRACTION FROM THE GAME CLOCK

The making of the rules can be a fascinating process, illustrated perfectly by this new rule. Often one game can grab the attention of the country in such a way that a consensus quickly forms around the need happened. The story of one of the 2010 bowl games was that the offensive team apparently created an unfair clock advantage that allowed them to kick a game-tying field goal and subsequently win the game in overtime. Largely as a result of that game, the rules committee in 2011 approved a rule that deals with a team gaining a clock advantage by committing a foul late in the game.

 

Rule 3-4-4 

10-Second Subtraction from Game Clock ARTICLE 4.

a. With the game clock running and less than one minute remaining in either half, if a player of either team commits a foul that causes the clock to stop, the officials may subtract 10 seconds from the game clock at the option of the offended team. The fouls that fall in this category include but are not limited to:

(1) Any foul that prevents the snap (e.g., false start, encroachment, defensive offside by contact in the neutral zone, etc.);
(2) Intentional grounding to stop the clock;
(3) Incomplete illegal forward pass;

(4) Backward pass thrown out of bounds to stop the clock;
(5) Any other foul committed with the intent of stopping the clock.
The offended team may accept the yardage penalty and decline the 10-second subtraction. If the yardage penalty is declined the 10-second subtraction is declined by rule.
b. The 10-second rule does not apply if the game clock is not running when the foul occurs or if the foul does not cause the game clock to stop (e.g., illegal formation).
c. After enforcement of the penalty and 10-second subtraction (if any) the game clock

 

d. If the fouling team has a timeout remaining it may avoid the 10-second subtraction by using a timeout. In this case the game clock starts on the snap after the timeout.

The rule some examples.

1. The rule applies only if the game clock is running inside one minute of either half. With one or more minutes in the half the referee has broad discretion about when to start and stop the clock under Rule 3-4-3. It is only when the game clock reads 0:59 or less that this new rule comes into effect, and then only if the game clock is running when the foul is committed. If the previous play had been an incomplete pass, for example, the game clock would not be running so the new rule would not apply.

2. The rule applies equally to either team. We tend to think of the offense as the team trying to manipulate the clockof the two teams the offense is more in control of the pace of the gamebut the rule applies to the defense as well. It may be that the defense is behind and thus wants to get the clock stopped, so it commits a foulby, say, jumping offside to make contact. The same rule applies to Team B as to Team A. Those familiar with the NFL rule will recognize a difference here: the 10-second subtraction rule in the NFL only applies to Team A.

3. Only those fouls that cause the clock to stop are affected by this rule. There is some confusion on this point, which sometimes arises out of not understanding the difference between a foul and a penalty. For example, if a team commits a false start, the officials shut the play down; this is a foul that stops the clock. But if a team snaps the ball when it has five players in the backfieldan illegal formationthe play continues: this is not a foul that stops the clock. Of course once the ball is dead the clock is stopped, but this is to administer the penalty; the clock is not stopped because of the foul itself.

4. The 10-second subtraction is not automatic: the offended team has the option.

There could be circumstances where the offended team would not want the time taken off the clock, perhaps in the hope that it would get possession of the ball with time remaining. The offended team may accept the yardage penalty and elect not to have time taken off the clock. But if it declines the yardage penalty the 10-second subtraction does not apply.

5. Intent is not an issue in applying this rule. It could be that the fouling team does not intend to commit the foulan unintentional false start is the usual examplebut that with anything.

   

6. The fouling team may avoid the 10-second subtraction if it has a timeout to use. It is unlikely that this team would foul in the situation where it has a timeout, but it could happen, so in such a case it could use the timeout and avoid the 10-second subtraction.

PLAY SITUATIONS
1. Second and 10 at the B-30. The game clock is running in the second half. Team A trails by two points and is out of timeouts. After the ball is ready for play lineman A66 commits a false start, and when the officials stop the game clock it reads (a) 13 seconds; (b) 8 seconds. Team B accepts the yardage penalty and the time subtraction. RULING: (a) Five-yard penalty with 10 seconds subtracted from the game clock, which is set at 3 seconds. Second and 15 at the B-35. The game is over. Team B wins.

2. Second and 10 at the B-30. The game clock is running in the second half. Team A trails by two points and is out of timeouts. At the snap Team A has five players in the backfield. A22 carries for a three-yard gain to the B-27. When the ball is declared dead the game clock reads (a) 13 seconds; (b) 8 seconds. RULING: (a) and (b) Five-yard penalty, illegal formation. Second and 15 at the B-35. Because the illegal formation is not a foul that causes the clock to stop, the 10-second subtraction does not apply. After the penalty is administered the game clock s

3. Team A is leading 24-21 with less than one minute in the game and the game clock running. With the ball ready for play on third and seven at the B-35, tackle B55 jumps across the neutral zone and contacts A77. The officials shut the play down with the game clock showing 0:38. Team B is out of timeouts. RULING: Offside against Team B. Five-yard penalty and a 10-second subtraction from the game clock. The game clock is set at 0:28. Third and two at the B-40. 

4. Team A is in punt formation on fourth and 12 at the A-30. The score is tied with less than one minute remaining in regulation and the game clock is running. Team A is out of timeouts. Guard A66 commits a false start, stopping the game clock at 0:45. RULING: This is a situation where Team B might choose to accept the yardage penalty but decline the 10-second subtraction, since they will probably get the ball. If so, it is fourth and 17 at the A-25 and the game clock starts on the snap. If Team B allows the 10-second subtraction along with the five-  signal. Note that if Team B declines the yardage penalty there is no 10-second subtraction and the game clock starts on the snap.

You just posted a rule. What’s your point? 

[AggiesAreWe]

I think this explains why there was no 10 second run off.

3. Only those fouls that cause the clock to stop are affected by this rule. There is some confusion on this point, which sometimes arises out of not understanding the difference between a foul and a penalty. For example, if a team commits a false start, the officials shut the play down; this is a foul that stops the clock. But if a team snaps the ball when it has five players in the backfieldan illegal formationthe play continues: this is not a foul that stops the clock. Of course once the ball is dead the clock is stopped, but this is to administer the penalty; the clock is not stopped because of the foul itself.

[SmashMouth]

2 minutes ago, AggiesAreWe said:

I think this explains why there was no 10 second run off.

3. Only those fouls that cause the clock to stop are affected by this rule. There is some confusion on this point, which sometimes arises out of not understanding the difference between a foul and a penalty. For example, if a team commits a false start, the officials shut the play down; this is a foul that stops the clock. But if a team snaps the ball when it has five players in the backfieldan illegal formationthe play continues: this is not a foul that stops the clock. Of course once the ball is dead the clock is stopped, but this is to administer the penalty; the clock is not stopped because of the foul itself.

You are going to really confuse people using actual rules buddy. They're better off with the armchair officiating rules found in their head like Dirty but dizzy likes to quote.

[pine curtain]

18 minutes ago, SmashMouth said:

You just posted a rule. What’s your point? 

I hope you are tough.....

[Looper]

14 minutes ago, AggiesAreWe said:

I think this explains why there was no 10 second run off.

3. Only those fouls that cause the clock to stop are affected by this rule. There is some confusion on this point, which sometimes arises out of not understanding the difference between a foul and a penalty. For example, if a team commits a false start, the officials shut the play down; this is a foul that stops the clock. But if a team snaps the ball when it has five players in the backfieldan illegal formationthe play continues: this is not a foul that stops the clock. Of course once the ball is dead the clock is stopped, but this is to administer the penalty; the clock is not stopped because of the foul itself.

Good catch, I forgot that caveat in the rule. The crew did a good job, that is why we should leave it to them.

[SmashMouth]

2 minutes ago, pine curtain said:

I hope you are tough.....

Lol. Sorry, not sure what you mean. 

[LCMAlumtiger32]

17 minutes ago, SmashMouth said:

Lol. Sorry, not sure what you mean. 

Tell him your Cooks Lake Rd tuff 😂

[SmashMouth]

6 minutes ago, LCMAlumtiger32 said:

Tell him your Cooks Lake Rd tuff 😂

Yeah, right? I mean, I still cry watching Old Yeller, but who doesn’t? 😂

[Dirty_but_Dazzling]

5 hours ago, AggiesAreWe said:

I think this explains why there was no 10 second run off.

3. Only those fouls that cause the clock to stop are affected by this rule. There is some confusion on this point, which sometimes arises out of not understanding the difference between a foul and a penalty. For example, if a team commits a false start, the officials shut the play down; this is a foul that stops the clock. But if a team snaps the ball when it has five players in the backfieldan illegal formationthe play continues: this is not a foul that stops the clock. Of course once the ball is dead the clock is stopped, but this is to administer the penalty; the clock is not stopped because of the foul itself.

thought you were done.

we already we went over this the other day. all you did was support what I am saying because holding is not a penalty that stops the clock(supposed to be) but those officials did otherwise it was correctly going to run out because of the running play tackled in bounds.

like he said what should have vs what did happen. it's already been established thar what happened is wrong.

 

[Dirty_but_Dazzling]

simply put WOS got extra play when they shouldn't have.

(oh! and they still lost after leading by 17 with less than a half to play)               

ps. breaking huddle with 12 players is a penalty that would stop clock. lol, another miss by Chad and the boys on the extra play.

[AggiesAreWe]

19 minutes ago, Dirty_but_Dazzling said:

thought you were done.

we already we went over this the other day. all you did was support what I am saying because holding is not a penalty that stops the clock(supposed to be) but those officials did otherwise it was correctly going to run out because of the running play tackled in bounds.

like he said what should have vs what did happen. it's already been established thar what happened is wrong.

 

The clock will stop when the officials blow it dead to assess the penalty. After the QB was tackled, the officials stopped the clock because a flag had been thrown during the play. That's the proper protocol. Every penalty has a stoppage of clock if the clock is running.

[SmashMouth]

4 hours ago, Dirty_but_Dazzling said:

simply put WOS got extra play when they shouldn't have.

(oh! and they still lost after leading by 17 with less than a half to play)               

ps. breaking huddle with 12 players is a penalty that would stop clock. lol, another miss by Chad and the boys on the extra play.

Is the only reason for another play after time has expired because of a defensive penalty? Just humor me with a yes or a no, I’m going somewhere with this.