Which one is better a good coach or a talented team? You have to pick one.

[outanup]

You gotta have talent. We have had 0-10 and 1-9 teams at Warren where the coach was removed and the next day he is hired by Lamar University. He was a quality coach who has been followed by quality coaches and most win 2 games at the most. Some towns for different reasons just don't put good football teams on the field but it's usually not the coaches.There are a TON of really good coaches that don't win state championships.

Point taken....But those shoveling the coal cant necessarily drive the train. A good coach doesnt always translate to a good Head Coach.

[WildcatBacker]

From the 3a level and up, give me the good coach. The 2a level and down though, one or two awesome players can come through a school and pretty much carry it themselves just based on pure, raw talent. Overall I'd pick good coaching, but even a great coached team from a small school with few players to choose from would have their hands full facing a team with a couple of those rare players you only see once in a while.

[Red Dawn]

That's a great question.  Glad we don't have to pick just one in Crosby!!!

[Bulldog8]

Yeh, everyone knows Crosb is loaded the year

[Red Dawn]

Yeh, everyone knows Crosb is loaded the year

sry.  That was arrogant.  Don't like to be.  I know that tides turn and anyone can get knocked out of the playoffs each week.

Hey, I did pick Ned to beat NC, though.  That get me out of the "Dog House"?

[Knoddy1]

You can't really include Nick Saban when you are talking about High school football, colleges recruit their players and in High School you just have to do with what you have. BG you are right it was the team with Bock (fastest guy in the area that year) and it was Les Johnson, and if my memory serves me correctly the actual number of scholarships offered BC was 17....that's pretty incredible, and a shame.

[SmashMouth]

Good coach will not win without talent.  Good team will be competitive with a good coach or not.  But a good team needs a good coach to win it all.

I can name several schools that Bill Belichick could not win at.

yeah but if that coach doesn't win in Lumberton they will stupidly run him off...

[Bulldog8]

sry.  That was arrogant.  Don't like to be.  I know that tides turn and anyone can get knocked out of the playoffs each week.

Hey, I did pick Ned to beat NC, though.  That get me out of the "Dog House"?

I guess we will let that slide

[PhatMack19]

You don't have to wait. Hopkins, Seay, Kimler, Washington, Carr, Mayfields, Krautz, Lebarron, and this list goes on. It's not as if those guys wouldn't be as talented as they were if Neaumann wasn't the coach. That's a laughable statement. 

Out of that list Deshawn Washington is the only one that was recruited by major D1 colleges.  I believe Washington, Dravannti Johnson, and Stefan Huber are the only 3 players to sign with Power 5 schools in Neumann's tenure.  Let me know if I missed anyone.   

 

I'm not saying the players you named weren't very good HS players, but Neumann has regularly beaten teams with better individual players over the years.  Hell, he's coached more players that were drafted in the Major League Baseball draft than signed with Power 5 colleges to play football.   

[Tyler Dixson]

Out of that list Deshawn Washington is the only one that was recruited by major D1 colleges.  I believe Washington, Dravannti Johnson, and Stefan Huber are the only 3 players to sign with Power 5 schools in Neumann's tenure.  Let me know if I missed anyone.   

 

I'm not saying the players you named weren't very good HS players, but Neumann has regularly beaten teams with better individual players over the years.  Hell, he's coached more players that were drafted in the Major League Baseball draft than signed with Power 5 colleges to play football.   

 

While you're right that wasn't exactly my point. The guy was implying that there is no talent at Nederland and he doesn't see how Neaumann wins with the talent.  

[BlackShirts5]

Tell you what.. You take Nick Saban and the Lamar University football team.  I'll take a first year junior coach at a school of your choice and the University of Alabama.

I'll give you a game a year for 5 years..we can wager any amount you like on the results.

What was Alabama before Saban got there?

26-23 under Shula.

Edited November 9, 2015 by GCMinTheFuture

[D3zii]

Coach is the obvious answer,  Them Katy teams don't be as talented as the Manvels,  Memorials,  or Ceder Hills but they win most of the time.. Is all about the system..The team that comes to mine is the 2010 and 2011 Central Jags,  They had D1 talent but lost to a better Coach Friendswood and Humble team (even though that Humble team had good Talent to )

[AthleticSupporter - Jock]

What was Alabama before Saban got there?

26-23 under Shula.

You're missing the point of the original question.  You have to choose Talent or Great Coach.  You can't choose both which means you have to imagine scenarios where you would have Talent w/out good coaches or Short on Talent with Good/Great coaches.  I would choose the Coach over Talent as a parent and program supporter.  But you have to know that eventually the good coach will get run off because of lack of success because of lack of talent.

 

[BlackShirts5]

You're missing the point of the original question.  You have to choose Talent or Great Coach.  You can't choose both which means you have to imagine scenarios where you would have Talent w/out good coaches or Short on Talent with Good/Great coaches.  I would choose the Coach over Talent as a parent and program supporter.  But you have to know that eventually the good coach will get run off because of lack of success because of lack of talent.

 

Well I would take coach over talent.  A great coach can build a player and team.  A bad coach and do any thing with alot of talent.  I watched that take place this whole season..

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

Well I would take coach over talent.  A great coach can build a player and team.  A bad coach and do any thing with alot of talent.  I watched that take place this whole season..

i feel your pain. 

[Cougar14.2]

I would take Crosby's talent over Vidor's coach any day of the week and twice on Sunday's. I don't care how great of a coach you are if you cant win games. Conversely I think there's probably 10 coaches in the area that could go to WOS or Newton and produce the exact same results given the talent level when compared to the rest of their classifications.

[Stattrax]

Coach is the obvious answer,  Them Katy teams don't be as talented as the Manvels,  Memorials,  or Ceder Hills but they win most of the time.. Is all about the system..The team that comes to mine is the 2010 and 2011 Central Jags,  They had D1 talent but lost to a better Coach Friendswood and Humble team (even though that Humble team had good Talent to )

Katy has put more offensive lineman in college than any other team in the state...........

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

Katy has put more offensive lineman in college than any other team in the state...........

seems like every RB they have goes to a bigtime D1 school too, im waiting to see how many of their defensive players go D1 after this season is over. 

[CougarCal]

It's great to have a guy who knows X's and O's, but hard to win at a big time level without the Jimmy's and Joe's.

[BlackShirts5]

I would take Crosby's talent over Vidor's coach any day of the week and twice on Sunday's. I don't care how great of a coach you are if you cant win games. Conversely I think there's probably 10 coaches in the area that could go to WOS or Newton and produce the exact same results given the talent level when compared to the rest of their classifications.

Its a catch 22 for me.. I have 2 boys. 1 going to be a freshman next year and one could argue he was one of the top 3-4 players on his team and he is an O-Lineman. The other is going to be a freshman in 2 years. As much as I want them to be on winning teams and win state titles and all that good stuff I want a great coach or good coaching staff that is going to build them as players and hopefully get them and other kids on their teams to the next level. If the coach can do that I have no doubt he can win a few games as well.

[L-Train11]

I would take Crosby's talent over Vidor's coach any day of the week and twice on Sunday's. I don't care how great of a coach you are if you cant win games. Conversely I think there's probably 10 coaches in the area that could go to WOS or Newton and produce the exact same results given the talent level when compared to the rest of their classifications.

Heck I could go to WOS and coach and have instant success... But a good coach will keep that going every year, that's where a bad coach will fail. My  opinion is that talent will produce a winning season, great coaches will produce winning programs for years.. What would happen if a talented Crosby team was poorly coached by someone who didn't know how to utilize their talent?  

[BlackShirts5]

Heck I could go to WOS and coach and have instant success... But a good coach will keep that going every year, that's where a bad coach will fail. My  opinion is that talent will produce a winning season, great coaches will produce winning programs for years.. What would happen if a talented Crosby team was poorly coached by someone who didn't know how to utilize their talent?  

They would go 4-6..  Have kids in the wrong positions and all that good stuff.

[AthleticSupporter - Jock]

Heck I could go to WOS and coach and have instant success... But a good coach will keep that going every year, that's where a bad coach will fail. My  opinion is that talent will produce a winning season, great coaches will produce winning programs for years.. What would happen if a talented Crosby team was poorly coached by someone who didn't know how to utilize their talent?  

Looking in my crystal ball and I can see 14.2's answer:

"That coach would be sent across the Trinity to coach at West Brook."

[Cougar14.2]

Heck I could go to WOS and coach and have instant success... But a good coach will keep that going every year, that's where a bad coach will fail. My  opinion is that talent will produce a winning season, great coaches will produce winning programs for years.. What would happen if a talented Crosby team was poorly coached by someone who didn't know how to utilize their talent?  

Athletic beat me to it, lol. To answer your question though; He would win two district titles, one of them undefeated, go to the playoffs 7 straight years, reach the third round once and second round multiple times, then get fired for underachieving. Was he doing that because he was a good coach or because the majority of his tenure he had the most talented team in the district?

Like someone said earlier though, thank heavens Crosby doesn't have to choose between the two.   

[CardinalBacker]

I'll take coaching... all of the talent in the world won't go far without coaching.  I'd rather see a well-coached, disciplined team take the field and hold their own against more "talented" teams.