PNG/rumors

[SmashMouth]

I’m sure in the last 24 pages someone else has made this point. I’m just too exhausted to try and sift through it all. 

What happened was a violation of the rules. Only the PNG Coaching staff knows the spirit of that violation. Was it intentional? Was it a misunderstanding? None of us know. Hell, I even saw comments from a lawyer on here. Lol. PNG has to answer for that infraction and move on. Opinions don’t matter. 

[PhatMack19]

1 hour ago, PN-G bamatex said:

Let's go back to the exact text of the rule. NCAA Rule 1, Article 11(a) reads, in relevant part:

"Television replay or monitor equipment is prohibited at the sidelines, press box or other locations within the playing enclosure for coaching purposes during the game."

That last clause, "for coaching purposes during the game," appears to be the key element on which the PN-G coach's misinterpretation of the rule hinged. I suspect based on Coach Faircloth's statements, though I admittedly don't know for sure, that the misinterpretation hinged on the understanding that he couldn't take pictures or video with an iPad to be used in connection with coaching decisions during the game, but could still take pictures and video during the game to be used after the game is over, which is a reasonable interpretation based on this portion of the relevant rule. (I note here that it's also plausible he simply saw "television equipment" and distinguished that from an iPad which is not a television, but I think it more likely that a layman would reasonably understand this probably means video equipment of any kind.)

The problem is that the sentence following that first one in the rule reads as follows:

"Motion pictures, any type of film, facsimile machines, videotapes, photographs, writing-transmission machines and computers may not be used by coaches or for coaching purposes any time during the game or between periods."

Now, as a lawyer, I can pick out based on the plain text that this second sentence acts to narrow the range of acceptable conduct posited by the first sentence. Where the first sentence simply says that coaches can't use television replay or monitor equipment in the specified areas for coaching purposes during a game, the second sentence acts as an absolute bar against any use of "[m]otion pictures, any type of film, facsimile machines, videotapes, photographs, writing-transmission machines and computers" by coaches at all during a game, regardless of the purpose of the use or the location of the equipment in the stadium. That's clear to someone trained to interpret rules for a living.

But I can also see how a layman wouldn't immediately grasp that, and how the second sentence can easily be looked at as a contradiction of the first, or how the rule taken in its totality appears confusing at first glance, or how one would read into the second sentence the same conditions as those present in its immediate predecessor. It's very easy to understand why a layman, having just read the first sentence, would *presume* that the all-important final clause of the first sentence - "for any coaching purposes during the game" - carries over to the second sentence, even though it's not explicitly stated. Frankly, I've seen courts make bigger mistakes in construing poorly written provisions of actual statutes. And frankly, I think this rule needs to be redrafted to clear up any potential confusion. Honest, good faith mistakes can be made on easy misinterpretations. It happens in the real world all the time, and it's likely what happened here.

In any event, if the facts are as I understand them to be, then this presumed misinterpretation would easily explain why a PN-G coach was taking pictures or video using an iPad during the game, but wasn't using that video or those pictures in connection with the game. The PN-G coach in question very likely thought that it was perfectly acceptable to take pictures and video of things he saw which he might think were important to mention during practice the following week. And if that is the case, as I suspect it to be, it's perfectly understandable why Nederland's coach would think that the infraction had no effect on the outcome of the game, and thus didn't warrant forfeiture - a position I happen to agree with, and an argument I think very well could win over the UIL on appeal.

I’ve spoken with a handful of coaches since yesterday(some that don’t even coach football) and every single one of them knew the rule right off the bat.  There is no way you will convince me that Faircloth and the whole PNG staff didn’t know this rule.  

 

Now I did get this response a few times- “they were just doing the same thing that everyone else is.”   That seems a lot more believable to me, than the excuse of them misinterpreting the rule.  They thought they wouldn’t get caught. 

[RoschonsBigBro]

17 hours ago, Eagle Nation said:

Are you referring to the quality win just last week when BH beat a Crosby team by 19 points that PNG had to beat in the last seconds of the game. Oh my bad, I just looked at the scoreboard again and it says Crosby-2 PNG-0. PNG is no threat to BH.

[PN-G bamatex]

7 minutes ago, PhatMack19 said:

I’ve spoken with a handful of coaches since yesterday(some that don’t even coach football) and every single one of them knew the rule right off the bat.  There is no way you will convince me that Faircloth and the whole PNG staff didn’t know this rule.  

 

Now I did get this response a few times- “they were just doing the same thing that everyone else is.”   That seems a lot more believable than they didn’t know the rule.  

I never argued that "Faircloth and the whole PN-G staff didn't know this rule." I said, citing Faircloth's statements in the press interview, that apparently this specific coach misinterpreted the rule.

It's not stated anywhere, but I got the feeling from the interview that he might be a first year coach, and I saw someone put in here that he's actually a middle school coach. Back in the Burnett days, I remember middle school coaches helping out with high school games. Don't know if that's still the case or not, but if we're talking about someone coaching middle school, it seems plausible to me.

[hitman009]

49 minutes ago, Eagle Nation said:

What integrity!!! A win will make cheating all better. SMH

 

Do you really think BH, Crosby and other schools do not break the rules?? I have personally seen BH coaches coaching their kids in 7 on 7 after school and at half of tournaments... guess what, that is against UIL rules.... I have even seen a kid paid by the School board member cash at a Peso's. Handed the kid $200 and said "my wife is not comfortable with your family and you coming by the house to eat. Here.... go buy them something nice". Heck one Coach lost his job because of recruiting practices. So don't give the integrity speech and cheater speech when I don't know a school that totally obeys all UIL laws (many of which are stupid anyways). 

[Lamar1996]

Screw the ipad....I'm bringing my drone to the game and giving a direct feed to our defensive coordinator cell phone.  We will shutdown BH's offense for sure.  Na our "D" still would suck!!

[png9mon]

4 minutes ago, Lamar1996 said:

Screw the ipad....I'm bringing my drone to the game and giving a direct feed to our defensive coordinator cell phone.  We will shutdown BH's offense for sure.  Na our "D" still would suck!!

Now that's funny!

[NDNation]

All the fans should bring their ipads and tablets and chop with them during War Chant.

[PhatMack19]

10 minutes ago, PN-G bamatex said:

I never argued that "Faircloth and the whole PN-G staff didn't know this rule." I said, citing Faircloth's statements in the press interview, that apparently this specific coach misinterpreted the rule.

It's not stated anywhere, but I got the feeling from the interview that he might be a first year coach, and I saw someone put in here that he's actually a middle school coach. Back in the Burnett days, I remember middle school coaches helping out with high school games. Don't know if that's still the case or not, but if we're talking about someone coaching middle school, it seems plausible to me.

Just looking at the arm in the picture, you can tell which coach it is and it isn’t his 1st year.  

[PN-G bamatex]

4 minutes ago, PhatMack19 said:

Just looking at the arm in the picture, you can tell which coach it is and it isn’t his 1st year.  

I still can't see any pictures.

[NDNation]

5 minutes ago, PhatMack19 said:

Just looking at the arm in the picture, you can tell which coach it is and it isn’t his 1st year.  

That's creepy, you ID'ing a hairy arm.

[NDNation]

4 minutes ago, PN-G bamatex said:

I still can't see any pictures.

I think they are on page 13 or around there. Or are they not coming though on your device?

[PN-G bamatex]

6 minutes ago, NDNation said:

I think they are on page 13 or around there. Or are they not coming though on your device?

I went back and dug them up on a computer.

Judging by the picture and a picture of our football team and coaches, that could be any of about four different coaches on our staff. Not really sure how anybody's getting a positive ID on him, absent his name being released elsewhere.

[SmashMouth]

They broke the rules. Intentionally or not, pay the price and move on. 

[CCbigfan]

42 minutes ago, SmashMouth said:

I’m sure in the last 24 pages someone else has made this point. I’m just too exhausted to try and sift through it all. 

What happened was a violation of the rules. Only the PNG Coaching staff knows the spirit of that violation. Was it intentional? Was it a misunderstanding? None of us know. Hell, I even saw comments from a lawyer on here. Lol. PNG has to answer for that infraction and move on. Opinions don’t matter. 

Nah they’re just flat out cheaters, go to page 14 of the thread to see pics 

[SmashMouth]

6 minutes ago, CCbigfan said:

Nah they’re just flat out cheaters, go to page 14 of the thread to see pics 

Lol. I was trying to take the high road. 

I hate it for the players though. Take the punishment and move on. 

[dav-joel]

What would happen if Barbers Hill would have waited until this Friday, about 9:45 PM to expose the alleged infraction and caught the Indians snapping iPad shots of that game also?They could pick up a forfeit and the hearing and decision would be smack in the middle of MCM........... 

[png9mon]

14 minutes ago, dav-joel said:

What would happen if Barbers Hill would have waited until this Friday, about 9:45 PM to expose the alleged infraction and caught the Indians snapping iPad shots of that game also?They could pick up a forfeit and the hearing and decision would be smack in the middle of MCM........... 

Well lets see.  First of all it would be illegal for their coaches to have any device which can record photos, or videos in the press box.  Even if it was not being used to record, or photograph the game.  So if their coach took a picture of PNG coaches in the press box, & our coaches had an IPad, I'm guessing a double forfeit, right?

[ScubaSteve]

On 10/29/2018 at 0:32 PM, CCRed said:

Makes accepting the money even more satisfying. 

Oops, sorry 

[TradenupBH]

Can't wait for the "Marching IPad" at halftime.

[FrodoNDN]

21 minutes ago, TradenupBH said:

Can't wait for the "Marching IPad" at halftime.

Actually funny....had a giggle there....but seriously, that is a great idea...

[TenaciousK]

After 24.5 pages...my eyes hurt. But also a little bit of my soul too. I miss the unity we felt after Harvey. This is a game, guys. For a few months out of the year, adults sink to unbelievable levels looking for one-upsmanship and bragging rights that they literally have no hand in earning. Judging entire communities based on prep level football games? "You serious, Clark?" I forgot how old I was when I grew up.

Curiously though..We used to bring a laptop in the pressbox when we did live updates, and I wrote game previews/reviews on vidorpirates.com (RIP to that site..loved contributing to it) Guess it was no big deal since we were "Press?"

[TxHoops]

Thank you to the PNG coaching staff and the entire Indian Nation for giving us one of the best threads this site has seen in years.

Just whip everyone's behinds the rest of the way and iPad-gate won't matter.

[ST413]

7 minutes ago, TenaciousK said:

After 24.5 pages...my eyes hurt. But also a little bit of my soul too. I miss the unity we felt after Harvey. This is a game, guys. For a few months out of the year, adults sink to unbelievable levels looking for one-upsmanship and bragging rights that they literally have no hand in earning. Judging entire communities based on prep level football games? "You serious, Clark?" I forgot how old I was when I grew up.

Curiously though..We used to bring a laptop in the pressbox when we did live updates, and I wrote game previews/reviews on vidorpirates.com (RIP to that site..loved contributing to it) Guess it was no big deal since we were "Press?"

The problem is just in the coaches box.

[TxHoops]

Oh and hats off to Coach Barrow and Big Ned.  Other than the vast amount of humor in this thread, my second biggest takeaway is that he seems like one classy dude.