New Pony Age Rules

[daddy23]

www.pony.org

Pony has adopted a new rule to allow local leagues to adopt an "And Under" approach to Age Limits.  This would allow kids to "play up" one division. 

I would not think this would be a good idea for very many kids.

What impact do you think this will have, if any, on the local leagues.

[td]

www.pony.org

Pony has adopted a new rule to allow local leagues to adopt an "And Under" approach to Age Limits.  This would allow kids to "play up" one division. 

I would not think this would be a good idea for very many kids.

What impact do you think this will have, if any, on the local leagues.

This is one of those that I love. I understand it's not for everyone and the people that try it and their kids aren't ready for it are not going to be happy. My kids are 16 months apart but two baseball season. This is the only way they could ever play on the same team. My youngest played 9U in select baseball as a 7 year old. The only problem I see in doing this is it will never allow my youngest to have his day in the sun or his day or season to be one of the better kids on the team. He is pretty but not good enough to be one of the best on the team when he is playing up two seasons. I personally love this rule.

[vhs]

You make some good points TD, especially when it comes to getting to see both your boys play together.  That would be awesome. 

But, I'm not sure I like this rule for the overall good of League Ball.  After coaching for a few years, I just haven't come across very many kids that are equipped to play up.  At least not at the younger levels.  There may be 1-2 a year that are ready for it, but not many.  My concern is that a whole bunch of parents are going to think their littl "All Star" is too good for his own age group and they will want to move him up.  If too much of this happens then you have a bit of a "watering down" effect on the older division.  As a second year Pinto coach, I just really can't think of many 5-6 yr olds that can make the jump.  There are probably a few, but they are very few. 

Its kind of like what has happened with Select Ball.  I know several organizations still do it the right way, but many select teams are built with Mom and Dads checkbook and not Little Johnny's talent.  Again, I feel like the competition has been watered down. 

Just my opinion, like I said you make some excellent points.  I would love to see my boys play together but it will almost certainly not happen since they are 5 yrs apart.  Well, unless of course they play for the Astros one day ;D ;D ;D.  (hey a guy can dream can't he)

[td]

You make some good points TD, especially when it comes to getting to see both your boys play together.  That would be awesome. 

But, I'm not sure I like this rule for the overall good of League Ball.  After coaching for a few years, I just haven't come across very many kids that are equipped to play up.  At least not at the younger levels.  There may be 1-2 a year that are ready for it, but not many.  My concern is that a whole bunch of parents are going to think their littl "All Star" is too good for his own age group and they will want to move him up.  If too much of this happens then you have a bit of a "watering down" effect on the older division.  As a second year Pinto coach, I just really can't think of many 5-6 yr olds that can make the jump.  There are probably a few, but they are very few. 

Its kind of like what has happened with Select Ball.  I know several organizations still do it the right way, but many select teams are built with Mom and Dads checkbook and not Little Johnny's talent.  Again, I feel like the competition has been watered down. 

Just my opinion, like I said you make some excellent points.  I would love to see my boys play together but it will almost certainly not happen since they are 5 yrs apart.  Well, unless of course they play for the Astros one day ;D ;D ;D.  (hey a guy can dream can't he)

That will probably be a problem, you are correct. Not only that alot will do it out of convenience. It will be nice for me though. I have separated mine in select ball but I feel that the youngest can definitely play up in league ball.

[2throwrundown]

I dont see where it would benifit a player as young as 5 and 6 years old to play up a division.  Im thinking the rule change was made with the older divisions in mind.  Like a 14 yr old playing at the 16 17 year old division.  Dont push your kids to grow up too fast

[td]

I dont see where it would benifit a player as young as 5 and 6 years old to play up a division.  Im thinking the rule change was made with the older divisions in mind.  Like a 14 yr old playing at the 16 17 year old division.  Dont push your kids to grow up too fast

I coached 3 teams last year so my 2 boys could do their own thing. I don't think I'm pushing my kids to grow up too fast but thanks for your advice. 

BTW my kids aren't 5 or 6. I know my kids well enough and I know the game well enough to make an educated decision on my own but thanks again.

[td]

That last post may have been a little harsh. It's one of those days. The good thing about the rule is it allows the league to do it either way. I hope Orange goes to "and under". It would allow my son to play Mustang league as an 8 year old.

[Guest vpirate]

Maybe it should be left up to the coach's.  If a coach at a higher level drafts a younger player, then he must believe he has the talent to play up..  If not, the player plays with his own age group..  Just a thought.

[adminbaberuth]

Sr Babe Ruth which is a 16-18 yr old league,  play all league games together. At the end of the season we pick two teams to travel, all 16 team and 17-18 yr old team. We have never allowed a 16 yr old to play up in the past 40 years, and we've had many 16 yr olds who could have competed easily with the older guys.

Our 13-15 yr old league, all 13's together and 14-15 play together in league play, all on 90 and 60'6".

   

[MIF04]

Structure-wise, I like the way Babe Ruth does it.  As the players approach/make HS age, the lines start to blur between age groups, etc.  I am not a big fan of playing young boys up (why play a 7 up with a 9 or 10?  It's just too early). 

The idea in the younger age groups is to get as many kids playing.  You want all the 9's to play, all the 8's etc.  Why take up a spot just so a kid can satisfy someone's ego of playing up?  Sure, there are kids good enough to play up...some grow earlier, mature earlier, etc.  But, it simply doesn't matter at that age.  And, BTW...I've never seen a scout or recruiter at a 10 and under game looking for the next great 7 year old.  Wait til they're older.

I do sympathize with the situation of wanting your boys to play together...I had the same problem.  My 2 sons never got to play together (no baseball, no basketball, etc.).  But it was best for them to have their own team, their own time.  In retrospect, it was the best thing.

Best to all and, as always, JMO... 

[iwonsee]

You make some good points TD, especially when it comes to getting to see both your boys play together.  That would be awesome. 

But, I'm not sure I like this rule for the overall good of League Ball.  After coaching for a few years, I just haven't come across very many kids that are equipped to play up.  At least not at the younger levels.  There may be 1-2 a year that are ready for it, but not many.  My concern is that a whole bunch of parents are going to think their littl "All Star" is too good for his own age group and they will want to move him up.  If too much of this happens then you have a bit of a "watering down" effect on the older division.  As a second year Pinto coach, I just really can't think of many 5-6 yr olds that can make the jump.  There are probably a few, but they are very few. 

Its kind of like what has happened with Select Ball.  I know several organizations still do it the right way, but many select teams are built with Mom and Dads checkbook and not Little Johnny's talent.  Again, I feel like the competition has been watered down.

Just my opinion, like I said you make some excellent points.  I would love to see my boys play together but it will almost certainly not happen since they are 5 yrs apart.  Well, unless of course they play for the Astros one day ;D ;D ;D.  (hey a guy can dream can't he)

I could not agree more with some of the so called Pro Coached teams it is just if you can afford the fees if so then you have SELECT talent!!

[td]

Structure-wise, I like the way Babe Ruth does it.  As the players approach/make HS age, the lines start to blur between age groups, etc.  I am not a big fan of playing young boys up (why play a 7 up with a 9 or 10?  It's just too early). 

The idea in the younger age groups is to get as many kids playing.  You want all the 9's to play, all the 8's etc.  Why take up a spot just so a kid can satisfy someone's ego of playing up?  Sure, there are kids good enough to play up...some grow earlier, mature earlier, etc.  But, it simply doesn't matter at that age.  And, BTW...I've never seen a scout or recruiter at a 10 and under game looking for the next great 7 year old.  Wait til they're older.

I do sympathize with the situation of wanting your boys to play together...I had the same problem.  My 2 sons never got to play together (no baseball, no basketball, etc.).  But it was best for them to have their own team, their own time.  In retrospect, it was the best thing.

Best to all and, as always, JMO... 

Personally I'm not looking for a scout or a recruiter. I'm looking for convenience for me. My kids love league ball. I think there is alot to be said for playing league with your friends and eating nachos and chasing foul balls. They don't get as much of that in select ball. I appreciate yalls opinion but it must have been a big enough issue for enough people for PONY to change the rule. It's also like that in softball and all select ball. I'm not suggesting it's for everyone but it works out beautiful for my situation.

[78Stang]

Let me put it simple and clear- No KID should be allowed to play above their age bracket. NO IF ands or BUTTS! This is only occurring because parents think that their kids are so wonderful and talented at such a young age. After all of the smoke clears later on in the child's life he will see that NO he was not the next Babe Ruth or Nolan Ryan. What has transpired instead is that these young children have been brought up in age to believe that they are so good, better than their friends and heads and tails above anyone their age. I promise you that it all evens out later in high school and those young men that were the prima-donna's usually are too cocky to be on a "team" and are outcast by the rest of the team or they end up with ruined throwing arms because of all of the innings they pitched to make Mom, Dad and coach happy.

In all due respect to the parents and coaches of these young men- Do you even care about these young men and how they mature to be adults, or is just about you? Get your own life and quit trying to impress yourself at their ex pence!

[LCM76]

I think its a great rule and should have been put into place when they moved the age cut-off from Aug 1 to May 1.

This movement helped the younger players, i.e. 5 and 6 year olds who weren't physically or emotionally mature enough to play with kids more their age, particularly the ones whose birthdays fell in the June and July time-frame.  They were the youngest of the two-year age bracket.

But it was not and is not good for those in the older age groups, particularly the 12-14 year olds.

Under the Aug 1 birthday cut-off date there were very few age/grade mis-matches.  Most kids who are 11 and 12 are in 5th and 6th grade.  Most kids who were 13 and 14 were in 7th and 8th grade.  There would be a few examples of kids who were 11 but in fourth grade, those who are 13 but in 6th grade, etc.  Now the opposite is true but with a greater number.  When the new age cut-off occured, I know of a number of players who were in 7th grade but were playing a 3rd year in Bronco as 12 year olds.  So basically there were a number of kids who didn't get to play ball with their classmates and friends and they lost out on development opportunity.

What this means is that you only get one year of Pony ball (13-14 year olds) before starting your freshman year of high school ball.  For developmental purposes, two years of Pony ball before high school is a lot better than just one.  Previously the only way to get around this was to leave the Pony league and go play select ball.  Now those players have an option to get their two years in before high school ball.

Of course you can argue that those players playing freshman ball can still play their 2nd year in Pony, but no serious ball player should go back to playing on a 54/80 field once they start playing on a 60/90.  Plus the idea is to get the 2 year development in BEFORE starting high school.

This is a good rule change and should benefit the league.  And for those parents who push their kids too hard, too soon:  they'll learn, sooner or later they'll learn.

[td]

Let me put it simple and clear- No KID should be allowed to play above their age bracket. NO IF ands or BUTTS! This is only occurring because parents think that their kids are so wonderful and talented at such a young age. After all of the smoke clears later on in the child's life he will see that NO he was not the next Babe Ruth or Nolan Ryan. What has transpired instead is that these young children have been brought up in age to believe that they are so good, better than their friends and heads and tails above anyone their age. I promise you that it all evens out later in high school and those young men that were the prima-donna's usually are too cocky to be on a "team" and are outcast by the rest of the team or they end up with ruined throwing arms because of all of the innings they pitched to make Mom, Dad and coach happy.

In all due respect to the parents and coaches of these young men- Do you even care about these young men and how they mature to be adults, or is just about you? Get your own life and quit trying to impress yourself at their ex pence!

First of all, you obviously don't know the first thing about me. Second all I could careless what your opinion is. And lastly you want to have the final say. You must be so much smarter than everyone else. If you knew me you would know that I'm not looking for my kid to be the best. I do want them to be the best prepared and I put in the time to help that happen. Unless you know me, don't question what I do for my kids or why.

[pirate68]

Let me put it simple and clear- No KID should be allowed to play above their age bracket. NO IF ands or BUTTS! This is only occurring because parents think that their kids are so wonderful and talented at such a young age. After all of the smoke clears later on in the child's life he will see that NO he was not the next Babe Ruth or Nolan Ryan. What has transpired instead is that these young children have been brought up in age to believe that they are so good, better than their friends and heads and tails above anyone their age. I promise you that it all evens out later in high school and those young men that were the prima-donna's usually are too cocky to be on a "team" and are outcast by the rest of the team or they end up with ruined throwing arms because of all of the innings they pitched to make Mom, Dad and coach happy.

In all due respect to the parents and coaches of these young men- Do you even care about these young men and how they mature to be adults, or is just about you? Get your own life and quit trying to impress yourself at their ex pence!

First of all, you obviously don't know the first thing about me. Second all I could careless what your opinion is. And lastly you want to have the final say. You must be so much smarter than everyone else. If you knew me you would know that I'm not looking for my kid to be the best. I do want them to be the best prepared and I put in the time to help that happen. Unless you know me, don't question what I do for my kids or why.

Dont you just love it when other people claim to know whats best for you and your situation.

[td]

Let me put it simple and clear- No KID should be allowed to play above their age bracket. NO IF ands or BUTTS! This is only occurring because parents think that their kids are so wonderful and talented at such a young age. After all of the smoke clears later on in the child's life he will see that NO he was not the next Babe Ruth or Nolan Ryan. What has transpired instead is that these young children have been brought up in age to believe that they are so good, better than their friends and heads and tails above anyone their age. I promise you that it all evens out later in high school and those young men that were the prima-donna's usually are too cocky to be on a "team" and are outcast by the rest of the team or they end up with ruined throwing arms because of all of the innings they pitched to make Mom, Dad and coach happy.

In all due respect to the parents and coaches of these young men- Do you even care about these young men and how they mature to be adults, or is just about you? Get your own life and quit trying to impress yourself at their ex pence!

First of all, you obviously don't know the first thing about me. Second all I could careless what your opinion is. And lastly you want to have the final say. You must be so much smarter than everyone else. If you knew me you would know that I'm not looking for my kid to be the best. I do want them to be the best prepared and I put in the time to help that happen. Unless you know me, don't question what I do for my kids or why.

Dont you just love it when other people claim to know whats best for you and your situation.

It's typical on here though.

[jesusfreak]

shame on whoever the opponent is when td's boy is forced to play with his own age!

by the way, I'm waiting for the rule change that will allow my boy to play "down".  :D

the kid would dominate.

[VP93....]

  Depending on how each person looks at this  (good or bad) some are going to like this and some are not. Leagues just have to try not to let it get out of hand. I will tell you some younger kids that i have seen play could move up and be just as good as the older kids they are playing with, but that is my opinion. You have your opinion and we have ours, and no matter what is said were not going to agree. 

[get hooked]

  Depending on how each person looks at this  (good or bad) some are going to like this and some are not. Leagues just have to try not to let it get out of hand. I will tell you some younger kids that i have seen play could move up and be just as good as the older kids they are playing with, but that is my opinion. You have your opinion and we have ours, and no matter what is said were not going to agree.  

You hit the nail right on the on the head..

[tgreen]

whats up td....hope all is well. dont let 78stang get u going. sounds like they are old,old school. what people dont realize is that baseball is bigger and more competative now than ever with all the select and all the talent out there. kids are starting earlier now because they want to... not because we push it. your kids along with mine would stay at the field all night every night if we would let them. another thing they dont realize is that those who have the talent to play up, it will only make them better. prime example is your youngest. he has it in his genes, but that talent has really grown because he has an older brother that is very talented and he has to keep up or fall behind. he is a Dallas, so i doubt he falls behind. he works hard and wants to be successfull. anyway..i guess to make a long story short, not everybody understands like some of us do. so dont let them get you all rawled up over it.

[td]

whats up td....hope all is well. dont let 78stang get u going. sounds like they are old,old school. what people dont realize is that baseball is bigger and more competative now than ever with all the select and all the talent out there. kids are starting earlier now because they want to... not because we push it. your kids along with mine would stay at the field all night every night if we would let them. another thing they dont realize is that those who have the talent to play up, it will only make them better. prime example is your youngest. he has it in his genes, but that talent has really grown because he has an older brother that is very talented and he has to keep up or fall behind. he is a Dallas, so i doubt he falls behind. he works hard and wants to be successfull. anyway..i guess to make a long story short, not everybody understands like some of us do. so dont let them get you all rawled up over it.

So which way is OYBS going with this? What about weekends?

[TITAN POWER]

Let me put it simple and clear- No KID should be allowed to play above their age bracket. NO IF ands or BUTTS! This is only occurring because parents think that their kids are so wonderful and talented at such a young age. After all of the smoke clears later on in the child's life he will see that NO he was not the next Babe Ruth or Nolan Ryan. What has transpired instead is that these young children have been brought up in age to believe that they are so good, better than their friends and heads and tails above anyone their age. I promise you that it all evens out later in high school and those young men that were the prima-donna's usually are too cocky to be on a "team" and are outcast by the rest of the team or they end up with ruined throwing arms because of all of the innings they pitched to make Mom, Dad and coach happy.

In all due respect to the parents and coaches of these young men- Do you even care about these young men and how they mature to be adults, or is just about you? Get your own life and quit trying to impress yourself at their ex pence!

First of all, you obviously don't know the first thing about me. Second all I could careless what your opinion is. And lastly you want to have the final say. You must be so much smarter than everyone else. If you knew me you would know that I'm not looking for my kid to be the best. I do want them to be the best prepared and I put in the time to help that happen. Unless you know me, don't question what I do for my kids or why.

Don't you just love it when other people claim to know whats best for you and your situation.

It's typical on here though.

I have to agree.  This is typical.  My youngest son was forced to stay down a division because of the age change in 2006 form 07/31 to 04/30.  My sons bday is 05/02.  Wow two days.  Two days meant he could not keep playing with the kids he had been playing with for years.  It broke his heart.  If this rule was made at the same time the cut off date was changed he would have moved up like he was expecting to.  I know there will be parents out there that thinks little Johny is ready to move up when they have no business being there but you will see most of those kids won't play but the League minimum playing time that first year anyway.  Mine was ready to move to the next division just as if he was supposed to before the rule change.  Good job PONY.  Its about time.