Was merging a mistake for BU and PAM?

[wbfan]

It seems that Lincoln and TJ had more success separate than together. (SFA was never good lol)

 

Outside of basketball, has BU benefitted being together? Ozen would have still been as dominate on the hardwood regardless, so that's why I'm not taking basketball into account.

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

4 minutes ago, wbfan said:

It seems that Lincoln and TJ had more success separate than together. (SFA was never good lol)

 

Outside of basketball, has BU benefitted being together? Ozen would have still been as dominate on the hardwood regardless, so that's why I'm not taking basketball into account.

Lol @Austin1985 guy says our alma mater was never good. Lmao 🤦🏾‍♂️

[wbfan]

If the schools stay unmerged, does Lincoln win a state championship in 4A with Jamaal Charles?

[88Warrior]

10 hours ago, wbfan said:

It seems that Lincoln and TJ had more success separate than together. (SFA was never good lol)

 

Outside of basketball, has BU benefitted being together? Ozen would have still been as dominate on the hardwood regardless, so that's why I'm not taking basketball into account.

You’re joking right??

[oldschool2]

1 hour ago, 88Warrior said:

You’re joking right??

As with everything.. "Good" is relative.  Even if they were at times locally good, it doesn't mean they were good.

I'm seriously not familiar.  What was their history of success that you're obviously referring to?  Remember.. schools all over the state (especially SeTx) win 8/9/10 games in a year and bounce early.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

As with everything.. "Good" is relative.  Even if they were at times locally good, it doesn't mean they were good.

I'm seriously not familiar.  What was their history of success that you're obviously referring to?  Remember.. schools all over the state (especially SeTx) win 8/9/10 games in a year and bounce early.

Katy, Northshore, Crosby, Alvin SC, FBM all beg to differ with you.  I think WO-S and Newton have an argument as well.

[TradenupBH]

I think merging Lincoln, TJ, and SFA was a mistake. Right now they would probably have 4a TJ, 3a Lincoln, and 2a SFA. They could’ve competed better at those levels more so then being memorial.

Beaumont United is a different situation. It’s more political with the merging of Ozen and Central. Ozen was a beast in basketball, but neither were jaugernauts in football. Personally, I think they should’ve kept Ozen at WB, redone a couple areas and stayed Central and WB.

[oldschool2]

15 minutes ago, JimAdler said:

Katy, Northshore, Crosby, Alvin SC, FBM all beg to differ with you.  I think WO-S and Newton have an argument as well.

It's apparent that you 100% missed the point.  Yes.. there are good programs in SeTx that make deep runs often.  There are also teams that win most of their regular season games and exit before round 3.  If you go 8-2 and lose first round.. you aren't as good as you think.

So.  Back to the question.  What in SFA's playing history says that they were good?  I don't care about winning seasons.  District championships? Playoff wins? etc..

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

It's apparent that you 100% missed the point.  Yes.. there are good programs in SeTx that make deep runs often.  There are also teams that win most of their regular season games and exit before round 3.  If you go 8-2 and lose first round.. you aren't as good as you think.

So.  Back to the question.  What in SFA's playing history says that they were good?  I don't care about winning seasons.  District championships? Playoff wins? etc..

If my memory serves me correct, SFA was dominant in the 80's and early 90's but I can't recall them ever winning a championship.  The school dates back to the 1940's, so it has roughly 60 years of football history.  I'm just not up to speed on the data.  

[WOSdrummer99]

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[Guest]

5 minutes ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

http://lonestarfootball.net/team.asp?T=2160

I was looking for that link and could not find it.  Thanks

[Bigdog]

36 minutes ago, JimAdler said:

I was looking for that link and could not find it.  Thanks

Here is a better one, much more accurate. Scroll down, its under Port Arthur Austin

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[oldschool2]

55 minutes ago, JimAdler said:

If my memory serves me correct, SFA was dominant in the 80's and early 90's but I can't recall them ever winning a championship.  The school dates back to the 1940's, so it has roughly 60 years of football history.  I'm just not up to speed on the data.  

They definitely had some above average seasons.  Overall I believe there were more poor or average seasons than there were good.  Doesn't seem to justify keeping the school open if enrollment was falling off like I was told. They lost to Hull Daisetta the last season they had.  So... Not sure that staying a separate school would have been the thing to do.

[bullets13]

13 hours ago, wbfan said:

It seems that Lincoln and TJ had more success separate than together. (SFA was never good lol)

 

Outside of basketball, has BU benefitted being together? Ozen would have still been as dominate on the hardwood regardless, so that's why I'm not taking basketball into account.

Looking at the records, none of them were really any good for about the last 20 years before they merged.  TJ had one Co-district championship in its' last 19 years of existence.  Lincoln won two district champions in it's last 28 years of existence.  SFA may have "never been good", but won 4 outright championships and another co-championship in their last 20 years as a school, by far the most successful PA school during that time.  All that having been said, the three schools combined for 0 state football championships from 1945-2001 when the schools merged.  In it's 20 years of existence, PAM has won 5 co-championships and one outright district championship.  That's slightly better than what any of the original three schools were doing, but not anything special.  All in all, I'd argue that the merger didn't really slide the scale much one way or the other.

[Austin1985]

14 hours ago, wbfan said:

It seems that Lincoln and TJ had more success separate than together. (SFA was never good lol)

 

Outside of basketball, has BU benefitted being together? Ozen would have still been as dominate on the hardwood regardless, so that's why I'm not taking basketball into account.

This is coming from a person who's merger made Forrest Park a winner.......

3A Semi finals in '83 and '86

The BU merger was from building problems

The PAM merger was from declining numbers that were in decline since the '82 layoffs plus the flight of the whites........

anyway(Austin was never good)  

Way better that Forrest Park pre and post integration......

[Austin1985]

9 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

Looking at the records, none of them were really any good for about the last 20 years before they merged.  TJ had one Co-district championship in its' last 19 years of existence.  Lincoln won two district champions in it's last 28 years of existence.  SFA may have "never been good", but won 4 outright championships and another co-championship in their last 20 years as a school, by far the most successful PA school during that time.  All that having been said, the three schools combined for 0 state football championships from 1945-2001 when the schools merged.  In it's 20 years of existence, PAM has won 5 co-championships and one outright district championship.  That's slightly better than what any of the original three schools were doing, but not anything special.  All in all, I'd argue that the merger didn't really slide the scale much one way or the other.

Thanks Bullets......

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

They definitely had some above average seasons.  Overall I believe there were more poor or average seasons than there were good.  Doesn't seem to justify keeping the school open if enrollment was falling off like I was told. They lost to Hull Daisetta the last season they had.  So... Not sure that staying a separate school would have been the thing to do.

I agree 1000000%

[TradenupBH]

6 hours ago, Austin1985 said:

This is coming from a person who's merger made Forrest Park a winner.......

3A Semi finals in '83 and '86

The BU merger was from building problems

The PAM merger was from declining numbers that were in decline since the '82 layoffs plus the flight of the whites........

anyway(Austin was never good)  

Way better that Forrest Park pre and post integration......

You had me until you said SFA was better then WB. That’s laughable. Forest Park had a guy, my cousin Johnny Norwood I would put up against any athlete from SFA.

[Austin1985]

11 hours ago, TradenupBH said:

You had me until you said SFA was better then WB. That’s laughable. Forest Park had a guy, my cousin Johnny Norwood I would put up against any athlete from SFA.

Where/when did I say SFA was better than WB.  I said SFA was better than those sorry ass FP Trojans.  So, you're kin to johnny norwood eh?  If it wasn't for Durley and his 19 starters from Hebert, I doubt that Norwood would've stood out playing on a sorry, pathetic, FP team......

[TradenupBH]

On 8/18/2022 at 7:17 AM, Austin1985 said:

Where/when did I say SFA was better than WB.  I said SFA was better than those sorry ass FP Trojans.  So, you're kin to johnny norwood eh?  If it wasn't for Durley and his 19 starters from Hebert, I doubt that Norwood would've stood out playing on a sorry, pathetic, FP team......

Lol, he was all-American and tore it up in track too, but ok. You still ain’t named an SFA player better? 😁

[Austin1985]

35 minutes ago, TradenupBH said:

Lol, he was all-American and tore it up in track too, but ok. You still ain’t named an SFA player better? 😁

Graylon Johnson.  All stater.  Went to UT.  And again, if it wasn't for the merger, he would've toiled in obscurity at Forrest Park

[TradenupBH]

1 minute ago, Austin1985 said:

Graylon Johnson.  All stater.  Went to UT.  And again, if it wasn't for the merger, he would've toiled in obscurity at Forrest Part

Lol, ok X, we understand what you’re saying. Couldn’t find that guy playing UT, maybe he went somewhere else

[Austin1985]

Just now, TradenupBH said:

Lol, ok X, we understand what you’re saying. Couldn’t find that guy playing UT, maybe he went somewhere else

C/O 88 SFA.  Anyway, Imagine Norwood on a 1-9 FP team.  Maybe he would've gotten a track scholarship.  Good old Hebert and Coach Durley turned him into a star. 

[TradenupBH]

2 minutes ago, Austin1985 said:

C/O 88 SFA.  Anyway, Imagine Norwood on a 1-9 FP team.  Maybe he would've gotten a track scholarship.  Good old Hebert and Coach Durley turned him into a star. 

nobody has ever knocked the talent Hebert brought in or coach Durleys ability to bring white and black kids together. I just have an example of a Forest Park kid that was really good. There’s been a couple other kids that would’ve been Forest Park that were all-state. Plus they played big boy football, I know SFA don’t know about that, but it’s a big difference. I was friends with Coach Knowles at SFA, does that count?😁

[Austin1985]

23 minutes ago, TradenupBH said:

nobody has ever knocked the talent Hebert brought in or coach Durleys ability to bring white and black kids together. I just have an example of a Forest Park kid that was really good. There’s been a couple other kids that would’ve been Forest Park that were all-state. Plus they played big boy football, I know SFA don’t know about that, but it’s a big difference. I was friends with Coach Knowles at SFA, does that count?😁

Being friends with Coach Knowles doesn't count lol.  Final point on JN.  Not taking anyway from his athletic accomplishments in '82 but let's pretend in '81, he played QB for FP.  If it wasn't for all of that which transpired, he probably wouldn't have the opportunity to shine as a DB.  That's all.  And we had our share of all staters too.  The initial statement of SFA not being good out if the 3 was BS and of course, I had an issue with it.  Especially compared to FP