Ask MrUmp1 your rules question.

[Coach85]

Because he is technically throwing to an unoccupied bag which is considered a balk unless he steps off the back of the rubber. When he steps off the back of the rubber he is then considered an infielder and can throw to which ever base he chooses.

[BS Wildcats]

That is why I feel it is not a balk. You are making a play on a runner.

[BS Wildcats]

Because he is technically throwing to an unoccupied bag which is considered a balk unless he steps off the back of the rubber. When he steps off the back of the rubber he is then considered an infielder and can throw to which ever base he chooses.

[BS Wildcats]

But you are making an attempt to put out a runner.

[Coach85]

When you are toeing the rubber you can only throw to a base that is occupied to try to pick off a runner. In order to throw to any other unoccupied base the pitcher must step off the back of the rubber.

[BS Wildcats]

I understand that. If a runner breaks early to second, the pitcher cannot use the pivot move to try to get the out at second? As the rule states, you making an attempt to put a runner out.

[Baba Ganoush]

My understanding, depends on umpire. If the runner actually attempts a steal, it is legal to throw ahead. If a strong fake steal, it can be called a balk. Umpire has final say on if he believes it was an attempt to steal or not. Probably best to discuss with umps before the game. The "judgement" rule wins every time!

[texas13]

that is not right if a pitcher spins without stepping off he has to throw to first base or it is a balk but if he steps off the back then it does not matter

[MrUmp1]

Turning and throwing on a pick off move is one thing. What usually happens is when the runner breaks, the pitcher steps off the back and maybe runs at him. If you just spin off of the rubber and run it is a balk because you did not clearly step off the back and disengage the rubber. 

[texas13]

Which last night the pickoff trick play silsbee did was actually a balk because he spun to second instead of stepping off the back before tucking it under his arm

[MrUmp1]

a pick off move is different than a runner stealing and the pitcher making a play on him. That is what I have been trying to say all along it is two different situations

[fox]

when in doubt read the rule yourself. there are a lot of umpires that don't know the rules also.

 

ART. 4 . . . Balk. If there is a runner or runners, any of the following acts by a

pitcher while he is touching the pitcher’s plate is a balk:

a. any feinting toward the batter or first base, or any dropping of the ball

(even though accidental) and the ball does not cross a foul line (6-1-4);

b. failing to step with the non-pivot foot directly toward a base (occupied or

unoccupied) when throwing or feinting there in an attempt to put out, or

drive back a runner; or throwing or feinting to any unoccupied base when

it is not an attempt to put out or drive back a runner;

c. making an illegal pitch from any position (6-1, 6-2-1a-d);

d. failing to pitch to the batter in a continuous motion immediately after any

movement of any part of the body such as he habitually uses in his delivery;

1. If the pitcher, with a runner on base, stops or hesitates in his delivery

because the batter steps out of the box (a) with one foot or (b) with

both feet or (c) holds up his hand to request “Time,” it shall not be a

balk. In (a) and (c), there is no penalty on either the batter or the pitcher.

The umpire shall call “Time” and begin play anew. In (b), a strike

shall be called on the batter for violation of 7-3-1. In (a), (b) and (c), if

the pitcher legally delivers the ball, it shall be called a strike and the ball

remains live. Thus, two strikes are called on the batter in (b). If the

umpire judges the batter’s action to be a deliberate attempt to create a

balk, he will penalize according to 3-3-1o.

e. taking a hand off the ball while in a set position (6-1-3), unless he pitches

to the batter or throws to a base or he steps toward and feints a throw to

second or third base as in (b); or

f. failing to pitch to the batter when the entire non-pivot foot passes behind

the perpendicular plane of the back edge of the pitcher’s plate, except when

feinting or throwing to second base in an attempt to put out a runner

[BS Wildcats]

I may not be reading this rule right, but according to but to 4b it would not be a balk when a pitcher goes to an unoccupied base go make a play on a runner; without first stepping off the rubber.

[texas13]

You read it wrong non pivot foot

[BS Wildcats]

Gotcha

[kirksey05]

You can step with your non-pivot (front) foot toward any unoccupied base (2nd or 3rd) as long as you continue on to make the throw to the base, and there is someone attempting to steal it.  I've seen this done both in high school and at college.  Not a balk and clearly stated in 4b.

[oldman]

How many times have you heard a coach or a 1st baseman tell the pitcher to step off when a runner breaks early.   Pitcher must disengage the rubber if runner is stealing second before throwing to 2nd base.  Most throw behind the runner to 1st ( base that is occupied).    Balk  in my book.

[kirksey05]

The reason coaches say step off is in case of the runner faking a steal.  If you throw to an unoccupied base when no one is making an attempt to steal then it is a balk.  Please re-read the quoted rule book below if you don't believe me.

 

failing to step with the non-pivot foot directly toward a base (occupied or

unoccupied) when throwing or feinting there in an attempt to put out, or

drive back a runner; or throwing or feinting to any unoccupied base when

it is not an attempt to put out or drive back a runner;

[oldman]

You must dis-engage....  I would balk you every time

[kirksey05]

You would be in direct contradiction to the rule book specifically 4.b., how would you justify that.

[oldman]

Where in the rule does it say you don't have to dis-engage.

[kirksey05]

ART. 4 . . . Balk. If there is a runner or runners, any of the following acts by a

pitcher while he is touching the pitcher’s plate is a balk:

 

b. failing to step with the non-pivot foot directly toward a base (occupied or

unoccupied) when throwing or feinting there in an attempt to put out, or

drive back a runner; or throwing or feinting to any unoccupied base when

it is not an attempt to put out or drive back a runner;

 

The above is a direct quote from the rule book.  If you step with the non-pivot(front) foot directly toward a base (even unoccupied) when attempting to put out or drive back a runner it is not a balk.  The reason that coaches tell players to step off is because if someone leaves early but doesn't attempt to take the base it is a balk due to the fact there is then no runner to put out of drive back.

[oldman]

I agree with .Mr.Ump1    I think and will call it a balk.  No way a pitcher can step directly to 2nd if runner is breaking from 1st.

[oldman]

_{We can agree to disagree on this.}

[kirksey05]

Sounds good, I don't think either one of us is going to change the other persons mind.