Dawgs12345

11 hours ago, dj said:

I watched the Gilmer game too. Ik there  stats. Even against Gilmer the QB had a few bad throws. And thats one of the telling stats that make them gud.they have been producing a bunch of T/O. If gilmer would have kept throwing underneath it was there across the middle. Carthage DBs was in a bail technique covering deep . So there DBs was there every play. But at the same time the combats were there. U will see against a team that mixes it up. Will have a shot. And Gilmer was getting yards running the ball. But they kept trying to score quick for what ever reason and it hurt them.and let's not forget it was 28-14. And gilmer got the T/o and had all the momentum and sqardered and opportunities to get closer and didn't. 

Gilmer got on a little roll in the 2nd half after it was 28-0 at halftime. They are a good team with a really good offense. They have 3-4 stud WR. They have put up numbers similar to WO-S against similar competition. They scored 14 unanswered, and then Carthage composed themselves and scored 14 unanswered to finish out the game. I would assume WO-S has a better D then Gilmer, but it’s hard for me to believe their offense is better. Maybe I am wrong. I’m not here trying to say the Mustangs are a bad team or have no shot, I just think you are reaching for something that is not there. I understand Gilmer had some success on intermediate passes. Obviously you are not going to take away everything from an offense as good as Gilmer. Carthage took away the run and the deep pass. Put Gilmer in a hole and made them beat them with the intermediate passing game. We see the result. A 28 point win. 

33 minutes ago, Majestyk said:

I beg to differ. During that four year run WOS played two Richmond Foster teams that probably hand it to Carthage on a plate. I also think 2016 WO-S beats 2016 Carthage. Correct me if I'm wrong but the polls had WO-S #1 from start to finish. I agree since Surratt (sp) its been top-heavy Carthage but in '16 and maybe '15 I give the edge to WO-S.

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Agree on the 2016 Carthage vs WO-S. I think WO-S proved to be the better team that year. They were an all time great defense by the numbers. That was a year early for Carthage. That team really overachieved. Had 2 losses, and could have easily lost 4 out of the 6 playoff games. Hell Silsbee should’ve beat them in the 1st round. That was a miracle win for Carthage. 
 

But 2017 was a far different story. There is no way to ever prove one way or another, but I truly think 2017 Carthage was the best small school team I have ever seen. I know people like 2016 WO-S, 2014 Gilmer and 2012 Navasota but that Carthage team IMO was better and more well rounded than all of them. They were something to watch. They played some close games, but when they were at the top of their game nobody was better. What they did to Kennedale in the state title game should be illegal.
 

But 2016 WO-S for sure beats 2016 Carthage on paper. But still would like to see what Surratt could’ve done! Haha.

17 hours ago, dj said:

I've seen them both play twice. And w.o is the only team that can beat them. Im not saying that they are.still don't know yet if they are gonna meet.what w.o had on defense will give them problems.and #2 rb will have to have a big game. But Carthage DBs aren't that impressive at all.they will catch the blues from #6 from w.o.either way it will be a one score game.and ill be willing to put money on it.just like w.o hands will be full.so is carthage hands will be full also. They both are loaded.looking at who played who want matter.

I’m not saying it won’t be a 1 score game, but you are way off on the Carthage secondary. They have 14 INT in 5 games. This is the fastest secondary Carthage has had in a long time. Against Gilmer they were really never out of position. The Gilmer receivers made a couple of good plays, but Carthage coverage was there. Carthage hasn’t shown a weakness on D so far his year. But we really have only played 1 team with a good passing game, so I guess it’s still TBD. 

8 minutes ago, BMTSoulja1 said:

I mean, they did score the most points on y’all thus which is something that I noticed...

They scored 10. If people want to count the last TD + 2 point conversion against our backups with seconds left in the game thats fine. It was on the scoreboard, so fair play. But in the context of the game this was a 4 score game with Carthage not executing very well.

3 minutes ago, BMTSoulja1 said:

Funny that you say that but it’s debatable that Jasper is actually a better team this year than WO-S.  So you giving props to WO-S and non to Jasper is kinda crazy looking...

I’m not giving props to WO-S necessarily, I’m just saying it’s not gonna be Jasper that beats Carthage. No way. And I see a lot of people wanting somebody to beat big bad arrogant Carthage. So if Jasper is better than WO-S, then I don’t know what else to say. It’s not going to be a very exciting playoff run.

Jasper has zero chance of beating Carthage this year. So if you guys are wanting Carthage to get beat, better hitch your wagon to WO-S. Can call it arrogant if you want, I’m just calling it how it is.

Carthage vs WO-S is for the state title this year. Winner of that game wins it all. I know I should be humble and say “any given Friday”, but let’s just be real. Carthage has steam rolled basically the top 5 in DII with the exception of WO-S. If any team is going to keep Carthage from dropping down and dominating DII it’s gonna be up to the Mustangs to do it. Wouldn’t have it any other way. Everybody has a ton of respect for WO-S and fans have followed them closely over the years, especially on that run from 2014-2017. Always liked watching them play. We have some history from 2013. That was a hell of a game, and TBH that was for the state title. That was the best team Carthage saw in the playoffs that year. And then the next 4 years WO-S went and played in the state championship game.

But if and when that game happens, it’s going to be a defensive battle. I know WO-S is known for their D, but Carthage has had arguably the best D in the state 3 out of the last 4 years. It’s just that they don’t get as much credit because of Surratt’s offense. I think it will be a fairly low scoring game.

On 12/20/2019 at 1:57 PM, marshman said:

They must have brought up the whole 9th and JV teams with them

Carthage had 68 Varsity players on the opening game roster. 32 seniors.

47 minutes ago, SmashMouth said:

Jacksonville  0

Liberty-Eylau 7

Marshall 6

Gilmer 15

Pleasant Grove 14

Van 7

Chapel Hill 14

Palestine 0

Henderson 14

Kilgore 11

Athens 14

LUMBERTON 17

Some real quality teams up there... The Train scored more than all of them. No, it wasn’t a close game, but I’m proud of our boys. Great job Raiders. 

Not trying to run down Lumberton but the last 3 points were against 9th graders. Honestly Carthage JV could’ve beaten Lumberton. The 15 and 14 by Gilmer and PG were real. Rest of the scoring was done on the 2nd team for the most part besides maybe 7 points a game.

And to call the play calling predictable is silly. Could’ve ran sweep left and sweep right all game and won by 30. Cannot believe Lumberton was in the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Marshall still hasn’t cleaned up their act. They had a TD called back on KO against Carthage that would’ve gave them the lead, and changed the momentum. Same exact thing here 9 weeks later. Impressed with Ned so far. Sound football team.

11 hours ago, Rez Ipsa said:

Against PNG, Nederland tried to keep the game low-scoring. My guess is the idea was to keep Roschon off the field by extending long clock-eating drives. This didn't work because Nederland gave up turnovers on two key drives that prevented them from matching PNG's points and taking up clock time. Even though Nederland's strategy against PNG didn't work, this doesn't mean it was the wrong strategy. Nederland, I think, should try to keep the score low and extend drives as long as they can -- That is, do what they intended to do against PNG. If Nederland can avoid costly turnovers and keep Marshall's offense off the field, while playing the same solid defense they've been putting on the field in almost every game this season, they have a chance. 

If Marshall's district is as weak as some of us suspect, it is possible that they walk into the game against Nederland cocky and unfocused. One of the things Nederland does best is match teams for punch and aggressiveness, which could throw Marshall off. All that being said, Marshall's only losses are against two of the best pound-for-pound teams in Texas, so it isn't as if they are totally untested. 

Marshall district is for sure weak. Much weaker than the Ned PNG district. But I don’t think Marshall will come in cocky. Even though they have won 8 in a row, the Mavs started off he season 1-2. They have climbed back from that start to be here in the 2nd round on an 8 game winning streak. It would be a very bad look for the Marshall coaching staff to have these young men come in overconfident and unfocused.

Marshall brought in Mathis to win these exact games. If he can’t do it, they will need to find someone that can. He has the players. His team has battled early adversity getting beat by Longview and Carthage. They have stayed the course. Let’s see if this program is ready to take the next step. This is a big step for Marshall.

I know some see Marshall as the favorite, but I don’t. These 2 programs have been pretty equal the last several years. Nederland is 37-19 with 4 playoff appearances the last 5 years. Marshall is 39-19 with 5 playoff appearances the last 5 years. But only 1 time has either team made it to the 3rd round the last 5 years. That was Marshall in 2015 when they got killed by Lone Star. Nederland has the better record and home field advantage this year. 

This one has the makings to be awesome. Let’s see if Marshall is ready to Take that next step to get back to where their program has been in the past. I’ll be listening. Good luck to both teams. ETX programs have great respect for Ned, PNG, PAM, WB, and some other big schools in SETX. Go Mavs!

On 11/20/2018 at 4:20 PM, indianforever said:

I don’t think Marshall’s district is anywhere near as good as ours...so who knows?

For sure it’s not. ETX 5a DII teams are historically bad right now. Marshall is one of the few blue blood teams in the division in ETX. We have JT and Lufkin in 5a D1, but other than those teams we are bad at the 5a level. Most of our 4a teams would win district almost every year. Carthage beat Marshall. Van beat Lindale (2nd place team). Carthage hammered Van 35-7. Carthage would’ve walked all over this district. I can’t say the same thing about the PNG / Nederland district. But it gives me a little pause about Nederland only beating WOS by 1 and Silsbee 21-14. I honestly think Marshall would’ve ran those teams out of the building. Bout like the PNG - Silsbee score. I think Marshall a probably about as good as PNG from looking at everything.

Here is the full Carthage vs Marshall game.

Carthage was missing their best defensive lineman, and had some other injuries on the defensive line. This was also the 3rd game of the season, and a lot of the Carthage players have switched positions. Some as a result of this game. Carthage played a 3-4 defense (which they never play) and made Marshall beat them with the run. JJ Green ran wild. One reason was that Carthage tackled terribly in this game. The other reason is JJ Green is a stud. They have 3-4 stud athletes on offense. Their defense was gashed by Carthage, but they had some good looking players. I don’t think they were ready for a disciplined offense that game. One thing if you watch the game is that JJ didn’t like getting hit. In the 2nd half Carthage turned up, and started laying wood to Green. He didn’t respond very well after that. I think that was the key to Carthage winning the game. If you get physical with Marshall they will get off their game.

Remember this was the 3rd game of the season. Marshall has rolled everybody since then. Not sure if it’s level of competition or they have improved or both. Their defensive numbers really improved in district, but ETX 5a is pretty weak.

This game is going to tell us a lot about Marshall. Nobody knows how good they are right now. I will say they have as good of skill position players as any 5a DII team in the state. Let’s see if Mathis has coached them up and improved the overall discipline of the team. If Marshall is disciplined and executes with high efficiency they could be a scary team for anybody in the playoffs.

3 hours ago, BADSANTA said:

Dude said Blacks?? I didn't know "blacks" was a ethnicity? I can tell you are from deep in the woods of setx ot have never heard the term African American. Smh. Horrible take sir. 

Is black an insensitive term? I’m honestly not sure.

Do we call whites European Americans?

To me we are all Americans, but some different color. Wasn’t aware that calling by color was incorrect. Why can’t you use black and white?

Carthage was up 52-7 at the half against Gilmer. IJS. They would beat Newton by 21. Might be close for a half, but Carthage O and D Lines would wear them slap out in the 2nd half. Newton might have better skill kids, but they don’t have the beef to hold up. 

It’s fun to have an all time great team. And I think Newton has that this year. Carthage fans thought they could beat anybody in 2017, WOS in 2016. But we all have to remember to keep some perspective. Rooting for Newton this year. Very impressed with the wins over WOS and Gilmer. Go win a title!

15 hours ago, EAGLEFOREVER said:

Newton didn't pick this schedule to try and have an unbeaten season, this schedule will test them and give me a good indication of what kind a team they are. Win all three or lose all three it doesn't matter, hoisting that trophy at the end of the year does.

Exactly. All the haters jump on Carthage for losing games every year. This is the same way we schedule. Same as this year. Carthage has a legit chance to start 2-3. But I would rather be 13-3, than 10-1. Winning the last game of the year is the only one that matters.

43 minutes ago, jimmyw said:

This might sound crazy but I am glad these teams will play us. Win or lose, we have nothing to hang our heads about. These teams have nothing to gain and everything to lose playing a 3A school. Most people in 4A doesn't know how good a program we have. Just proud they are playing us. JMO

I think most people know how good of a program Newton has. Especially people in NE and SETX. 

I think Newton will go 2-1 in these 3 games. Beat Silsbee and split with Gilmer/WOS.

Beat all 3 and win the ship going 16-0, and you are getting a rarefied air.

Just not sure they can beat both Gilmer and WOS. That is a tough task for any team to beat both in the same season. If the mighty Carthage played those 3 in pre-district I would probably pick them to be 2-1 also. Just hard to beat 3 good teams with a big enrollment advantage before district. Not saying Newton can’t win all 3, but I would be surprised. Kudos to Newton for putting a tough schedule together to challenge a team who won’t be challenged much by 3a teams this years. 

9 hours ago, Tigers2010 said:

At the end of the day, it really does matter who you are. If he wasn't the star QB and if Carthage didn't have a chance to win state it would have been different. But, coach and staff did what they had to do to get that ring.

I’m not going to speak much on this, but you guys are crazy if you think Surratt would risk his rep over a QB. They grow on trees in Carthage. When all this happened he was the JV QB, with zero garunatees he would be the starter on varsity. Look at the dates. And I promise Carthage did not need him to win a championship this year. There was 2-3 other kids that we would’ve won with. When you have 3 pretty much D1 receivers and the number 1 back in the state, a lot of kids would be “star quarterbacks”. 

1 hour ago, LC-M said:

I agree. They wouldn’t have beat some d1

It depends on how the old format would’ve played out. Before the split they took the top 4 teams from the district to the playoffs then the top 2 enrollment wise went to D1 and the other 2 went DII (if I remember correctly). So it wasn’t always fair to some of the schools that were playing up in D1 with a very low enrollment. It was just more mixed up. I liked it a lot better. To tell you the truth I wish 4a was not split at all. Let’em play. Schools like WOS, Gilmer, Carthage, and Argyle can play with anybody even with low enrollments. I think this is the only class in the state where enrollment doesn’t play a major roll to who wins. Carthage and WOS are the most successful programs over the last 3 years, and they are both very low on enrollment. I think Carthage will be the smallest school in D1 this coming year. Play in a district with Henderson and Kilgore where those towns have populations ~13,000 and enrollments of 950 and 1120. Little ol’ Carthage with a population of under 7k gives them all the want. WOS is the same way.

With the 4a split, I don’t know if there is a team out there that will keep the Mustangs from Jerry World for the foreseeable future. Silsbee? Jasper? Wimberly? Cuero? I just don’t see it. There is some teams in R1 and 2 that can beat them, but I don’t see anybody on the other side. This thing is going to last a longtime. The split divisions probably helped WOS more than any other team out there. 

So the Newton world beaters will have 2 losses going into district? It will be good to bring their fans back down to earth. But don't worry, they will run thru 3a D2. Don't think there is any doubt if they are the best team in their division or not. 

This reminds me of the Mighty Carthage Bulldogs fans who used to talk like some of the Eagle fans some years ago. In 2013 Carthage returned pretty much everybody from a team that played in the semi-final in 2012. The 2013 Dawgs had 5 future D1 players including Blake Bogenshutz who passed for 50+ TD in 2013, and Carthage's all time leading rusher. Carthage literally ran thru every 3a team in the state that season. The closest game they played was a 28-14 win over WOS in the R3 final. They went 15-1 that season. The one loss was a pretty bad one. Carthage who was the #1 team in the state in 3a met up with the #3 team in the state in 4a Whitehouse. Whitehouse had a future top 10 draft pick playing QB that year. Mahomes and Bogie had dueled it out in 2012, with Whitehouse winning 29-27. In 2013 this was the biggest game in NETX. #1 vs #3. This was for all the 3a teams that said they could compete with the top of 4a. Carthage came out firing in that game. Went up 39-20 in the middle of the 3rd quarter. Carthage fans thinking they are the best thing since sliced bread. And then the depth of Whitehouse and Pat Mahomes flipped a switch. Whitehouse scored 49 straight points in 1-1/2 quarters. Final score was 69-39. Carthage went on to destroy class 3a. Whithouse finished 12-1 losing in the 3rd round of the 4a D2 playoffs. I have never run my mouth about beating teams from higher divisions since.

Newton going to get some of that this season. It's ok. All the top programs have to be humbled from time to time.

13 hours ago, jkbtjc53 said:

They didn’t make the list for the reasons you stated, Ingram didn’t play this year, he’s getting rave reviews out of Carthage but he hasn’t done anything on varsity yet, gotta make sure he’s not living off his brothers name.

 

crawford didn’t start this year despite being 6’5 280, there are 5 O-like spots on the field, if he was that good he would have started over somebody, Carthage was talented but they didn’t have 5 FBS or FCS guys on that O-line.

Very fair comments. We will see where we are at the end of the 2018 season. Kelvontay is special. But he has to prove it on the field. 

I don't see Kelvontay Dixon, from Carthage on the list. Might have missed him. This is Keaontay Ingram's little brother. He was hurt the 2nd game of his sophomore season. But he already has 5 P5 offers (Texas, Colorado, Baylor, TCU, and Okie Lite). He is already as tall as his brother, and faster. Needs to add weight, but he has all the tools. Has a chance to be one of the top recruits in Texas by his senior year. A lot of people think he can be better than Keaontay as crazy as that sounds. He will do it all for Carthage in 2018. 

Another player I didn't see was Carthage's Ty'Kieast Crawford. OL/DL, 6-5, 290. Was a backup OT this year for Carthage. Saw a lot of playing time. Kid is going to be a monster. Next big time OL recruit to come out of Carthage. Just goes to show you how loaded Carthage was that this kid was not even a starter. He starts at any other 4a program in that state. But Carthage is OLU, haha. Check out some of the pictures on his twitter. Kid is a man child. No fat on that young man. Going to be scary. 

Both are in Dave Campbell Rising recruiting guide, in the Texas Top 50 class of 2020. Just 2 more to watch out for. There are 2-3 more players from Carthage in the 20' class that will be highly recruited, but I don't want to keep going. Needless to say Carthage 2019 is going 16-0. That class is even more loaded than this years seniors who won back to back championships.

I was thinking Silsbee will make some noise dropping down to DII. I would think Silsbee would be 6-4 or 7-3 with this schedule. I know those young gun RB are coming back. What else does Silsbee have coming back? I think the offense Silsbee runs is great for their personnel. I know y'all always have a good O-Line. Is the QB coming back? He was pretty good, and should get better. I would like to see Silsbee start out the season a little bit faster. Get some confidence early, and I think they can make some noise in the playoffs. Beside WOS, Silsbee has just as good of a program as anybody in DII R3. I think you guys are going to see a big difference in DII then in D1. You will no longer have to go thru the Hendersons, Kilgores, ECs, Carthages of the world. That region has been absolutely loaded over the years. Biggest thing is no more Carthage. But now you got WOS. So I guess pick your poison. Look forward to following the Tigers. Will be pulling for you guys in 2018. I like the direction of the Tigers the last couple years with the new coach. Now it's time to take that next step. Defense is now where you guys need to focus. I don't think Silsbee ever had a problem finding offensive lineman, QB, WR, and RB. Now the next step in the process is to improve on D. Good luck.

Don't worry about Spring Hill. They had a once in. Decade season this year. They had a move in from Carthage and one from Tyler that really helped them. Silsbee should roll in 2018.