Hamshire-Fannett AD/HC now open

[12gage]

I am done now, I hope HF gets the best guy out there

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="12gage" post="1190617" timestamp="1330721701"]
Dick v and dove you are right , you both coach in high school, and that's the way they they do it at your school that you coach at, ... Wrong neither one of you have coached , I have so go to your plant job and clock in , and coach From the stands or your chair because that's as close as you are ever going to get
[/quote]
Sir, I have coached on the high school AND collegiate levels...and I am not done yet...sir..."Universal" off season does not work...period..

[Wildcatter]

Couldn't agree more!  Weights are important but I don't see many football teams maxing out the day before a game.  In the universal world it comes down to one thing and that is I will do whatever I want with the other programs but I will make sure that I protect football during the season.  I can change the rules as soon as football is over.  I would also challenge you to see what kind of improvements are you seeing?  Are we talking about going up 10 to 15 lbs on a bench?  If thats all you get in a year how do your term that a success?  There are 2 program in this district that have universal off season. 

[jenks]

[quote name="Zoneblock" post="1190368" timestamp="1330704672"]
universal offseason = stonger and faster there is no argument otherwise.
[/quote]

You are very right. 2 years ago the quarterback could lift more than the senior offensive linemen.  NOT ANYMORE!

[jenks]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1189810" timestamp="1330635499"]
[quote author=12gage link=topic=96529.msg1189803#msg1189803 date=1330634860]
That universal off season is what  put HF on top in the 90 s , those two hc HF after put in no off season and look what it got them , price put it back in and you are starting to see results again - fact
[/quote]
Any state championships in football? How is it working out for the OTHER athletic programs there? Its not...Its ineffective, and its a selfish, football centered thought process. Yet it STILL fails to produce results for football either...
[/quote]
So you feel a weaker ( less physical strength) team is better?

[jenks]

[quote name="12gage" post="1190212" timestamp="1330690101"]
Let's compare the 90 s to the 2001-2010 seasons in all sports then let's talk about who won at all sports , basketball and baseball players weak as dishwater how has that been working for you
[/quote]
The problem with kids these days Gage is they don't treat it as a priveledge to play sports. They quit to easy, and they think they have to dedicate to one or two sports. Whey I played the coach could spit on me and it would not run me off, because I loved to play. Kids get their feelings hurt to easy.  When I was a kid we played tackle football in the street, not tackle football on the xbox.  I had a converstion with Coach Price when he arived at HF. What he told me was HF was feared when he started at BH. When tarver left HF got easier every year until BH did not play them any longer. So you are right. Off season "universal" is a must and if someone tells you otherwise...we know better.

[12gage]

Thank you , you sir are correct

[Zoneblock]

Sir, I have coached on the high school AND collegiate levels...and I am not done yet...sir..."Universal" off season does not work...period..


Im calling bs on this statement.  Ive watched college football and basketball teams lift and most statements you make are way off base regarding weight lifting. By your logic all skill and no strength equals good but what good is it when your getting pushed around by stronger faster more physical players.   

[Wildcatter]

Not saying strenght training does not help, just a totally different workout.  Not everyone plays quarterback or wide reciever.  The other bigger guys block or tackle.  How do you get that size, lift more weight.  A basketball or baseball player does not need that.  They need to also be able to jump, what football player needs to do that?  The other part of conditioning is how often does a tackle have to run nonstop for more than 5 to 10 seconds, not often.  Football guys take a month to get into basketball shape, why becasue it is a different game.  Have some of your football coaches try to shoot a left hand layup and see how far they get.  Get most basketball players to throw a football which only one guy on the team does and they can do it, maybe not as far but different muscles.  The whole point is you can have other sport coaches doing their workouts for their sports and getting better all around but some fb coaches will never let that happen.  Would a fb coach be happy with getting  game day to prepare for his game?  Thats what happens with universal off season.  If it is so effective why doesn't WOS, Silsbee, HJ, BC do it?  All of these schools are good in multiple sports.

[BLUEDOVE3]

Sure basketball players lift weights, but its targeted towards basketball. For basketball, most reputable trainers target  leg squat movements differently than football.

[12gage]

I'm sure bb players lift weights, look at l. James , you telling me that's natural, you have no clue , just like typing , go punch in and let the real coaches coach!

[Guest]

[quote name="12gage" post="1191297" timestamp="1330774739"]
I'm sure bb players lift weights, look at l. James , you telling me that's natural, you have no clue , just like typing , go punch in and let the real coaches coach!
[/quote]
Especially Kevin Durant, he can bench 150 pounds. There is no way that is natural.

[Dick Vitale]

I never said I didnt BELIEVE in weight training, it is essential...if you READ I indicated that weight training should be SPORT SPECIFIC...A.football player will NOT need the same workout as a track and field athlete...12gage if you can't understand that, you should sue your English teacher, but don't insult my intelligence with your lack of understanding.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1191344" timestamp="1330784902"]
I never said I didnt BELIEVE in weight training, it is essential...if you READ I indicated that weight training should be SPORT SPECIFIC...A.football player will NOT need the same workout as a track and field athlete...12gage if you can't understand thay, you should sue your English teacher, but don't insult my intelligence with your lack of understanding.
[/quote]Ah, so refreshing to have a basketball mind that truly understands the differences between football and basketball training. So refreshing!

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1191555" timestamp="1330805024"]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=96529.msg1191344#msg1191344 date=1330784902]
I never said I didnt BELIEVE in weight training, it is essential...if you READ I indicated that weight training should be SPORT SPECIFIC...A.football player will NOT need the same workout as a track and field athlete...12gage if you can't understand thay, you should sue your English teacher, but don't insult my intelligence with your lack of understanding.
[/quote]Ah, so refreshing to have a basketball mind that truly understands the differences between football and basketball training. So refreshing!
[/quote]

Well, H-F basketball before Price showed at H-F absolutely stunk.  While, I'm sure that this year's basketball success cannot be attributed to the lifting program, certainly no one can say that this lifting system was the cause of past inadequacies in the basketball program.  Remember that this is also a search for a new football coach, an area that until recent times, H-F has had some proficiency in and showed some faint signs of having again.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="WOSgrad" post="1191596" timestamp="1330807969"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=96529.msg1191555#msg1191555 date=1330805024]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=96529.msg1191344#msg1191344 date=1330784902]
I never said I didnt BELIEVE in weight training, it is essential...if you READ I indicated that weight training should be SPORT SPECIFIC...A.football player will NOT need the same workout as a track and field athlete...12gage if you can't understand thay, you should sue your English teacher, but don't insult my intelligence with your lack of understanding.
[/quote]Ah, so refreshing to have a basketball mind that truly understands the differences between football and basketball training. So refreshing!
[/quote]

Well, H-F basketball before Price showed at H-F absolutely stunk.  While, I'm sure that this year's basketball success cannot be attributed to the lifting program, certainly no one can say that this lifting system was the cause of past inadequacies in the basketball program.  Remember that this is also a search for a new football coach, an area that until recent times, H-F has had some proficiency in and showed some faint signs of having again.
[/quote]There were a combination of things but the major thing was instilling discipline on the team. Plus, you factor in playing your best players.

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="WOSgrad" post="1191596" timestamp="1330807969"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=96529.msg1191555#msg1191555 date=1330805024]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=96529.msg1191344#msg1191344 date=1330784902]
I never said I didnt BELIEVE in weight training, it is essential...if you READ I indicated that weight training should be SPORT SPECIFIC...A.football player will NOT need the same workout as a track and field athlete...12gage if you can't understand thay, you should sue your English teacher, but don't insult my intelligence with your lack of understanding.
[/quote]Ah, so refreshing to have a basketball mind that truly understands the differences between football and basketball training. So refreshing!
[/quote]

Well, H-F basketball before Price showed at H-F absolutely stunk.  While, I'm sure that this year's basketball success cannot be attributed to the lifting program, certainly no one can say that this lifting system was the cause of past inadequacies in the basketball program.  Remember that this is also a search for a new football coach, an area that until recent times, H-F has had some proficiency in and showed some faint signs of having again.
[/quote]
Well I doubt that "Universal" off season caused them to be a third place playoff team though...Weight training is essential, as I said earlier, but its not "universal" as football coaches would want you to believe, but its sports specfic.

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1191616" timestamp="1330811236"]
[quote author=WOSgrad link=topic=96529.msg1191596#msg1191596 date=1330807969]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=96529.msg1191555#msg1191555 date=1330805024]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=96529.msg1191344#msg1191344 date=1330784902]
I never said I didnt BELIEVE in weight training, it is essential...if you READ I indicated that weight training should be SPORT SPECIFIC...A.football player will NOT need the same workout as a track and field athlete...12gage if you can't understand thay, you should sue your English teacher, but don't insult my intelligence with your lack of understanding.
[/quote]Ah, so refreshing to have a basketball mind that truly understands the differences between football and basketball training. So refreshing!
[/quote]

Well, H-F basketball before Price showed at H-F absolutely stunk.  While, I'm sure that this year's basketball success cannot be attributed to the lifting program, certainly no one can say that this lifting system was the cause of past inadequacies in the basketball program.  Remember that this is also a search for a new football coach, an area that until recent times, H-F has had some proficiency in and showed some faint signs of having again.
[/quote]
Well I doubt that "Universal" off season caused them to be a third place playoff team though...Weight training is essential, as I said earlier, but its not "universal" as football coaches would want you to believe, but its sports specfic.
[/quote]

I never said it did.  In fact, I think my words were "I'm sure that this year's basketball success cannot be attributed to the lifting program."  However, you and Dove wish to make it sound like the ills of the programs other than football at HF are due to the UOS lifting and that is simply not the case.  All in an effort to get a basketball coach as the new AD.  Something which might not be a bad idea if that is deemed by the HFISD to be best for the school district's athletic program.  But for the reasoning behind that is that a school can only thrive in your favorite sport if the AD is a basketball coach is misguided and refuted by the success of schools in HF's very own district, Silsbee and Hardin-Jefferson, who have successful basketball programs in an athletic department headed by football coaches.  THe same with Kountze, who today was competing for a spot in Austin.

[BLUEDOVE3]

WO-S, don't try and spin this .......I think DV will agree with me that we are referring to specific targeted training towards one's sport. For example (again), for basketball players, leg squats positions are at a different angle or at the defensive squat position ;)

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1191675" timestamp="1330817046"]
WO-S, don't try and spin this .......I think DV will agree with me that we are referring to specific targeted training towards one's sport. For example (again), for basketball players, leg squats positions are at a different angle or at the defensive squat position ;)
[/quote]

Who says I am trying to spin anything?  Y'all two are coming on the football forum saying that the decision of a football coach should hinge on H-F's basketball program.  I'm just stating facts. So who's spinnin' whom?

[forum]

Dove and DV, I'm curious as to how you would organize the strength and conditioning program of a small 3A school, keeping in mind low budget and small staff. Everyone else believes that lifting weights is good for all. How would you do it?

[DB70]

I have no clue who you guys are but as a high school coach for MANY years, but as for a "universal" weight training is concerned at a school at the A - AAA level where you MUST have all your athletes for all sports it is near impossible to have a specific weight training for separate sports.  The squats, power clean and incline(to build shoulder strength) should be the core lifts of any sport.  If you think that high school basketball and baseball coaches are going to "push" their players in the weight room, I got some beach front property in Arizona.  I heard WOS track coach tell a guy that he never took his kids out of the weights in off season until after Regional meet and then it was only one say he took them out per week...3 consecutive state champions...if you want to WIN at HF in football soon you need to try and get a coach like Brian Huckaby at Orangefield..don't know if he would leave there but he is a great coach

[Dick Vitale]

I am not for certain HOW it is done at HF, but from the description of it, it seems that they require ALL kids to weight train ONE WAY, year around..If that is the case, thats not very smart. YES weight training is good for all sports, but if you do not allow SKILL DEVELOPMENT in your athletic program, YOUR OTHER sports will suffer. 

[Let’sGetAlong]

I think everyone knows where all of your opinions are on the UOS. It does not matter if you think it works or not, but the facts are this

When Price took over at BH every sport was successful year after year when he left.

I think Price was only at HF for two years if I'm not mistaken, and there was great improvement in almost every sport during that time period.

Whether or not people agree with UOS, what Price does---it works. That's a fact and we will see that at CE King. Why does it seem people think HF is bad at every sport. I think they are pretty good in every sport except football.

[Dick Vitale]

Perhaps your definition of being "good" is different from mine.  on the 3A level, I consider WOS football "good".....Hardin Jefferson and Silsbee basketball "good"...making the playoffs is great, but as a coach my ultimate goal is to be able to contend for a state title every year...Be in the hunt...So I guess its all about perspective.