Mr. Houston Hoops Jim Hicks gives his opinion on the Yates game

[dayton]

AAW doesn't need me to defend him but he's not being hypocritical. I believe he said that there was no need to stop scoring.... simply stop the full court press.... which would've kept the score down without having to decrease your intensity.  I'm not sure how he's being hypocritical... Silsbee stopped the press which seems to be the difference in most people's eyes.

[Guest tigersvoice]

[quote name="Ron Burgundy" post="741660" timestamp="1263109148"]
[quote author=bullets13 link=topic=64474.msg740858#msg740858 date=1262977240]
[quote author=Ron Burgundy link=topic=64474.msg740846#msg740846 date=1262975731]
[quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=64474.msg740822#msg740822 date=1262973304]
I agree. Had Silsbee continued to play in the manner that Yates played the ENTIRE game, then Silsbee would have beaten Legacy by a simuliar score that Yates beat Lee.
[/quote]

Except Silsbee couldn't score 170
[/quote]

they might have.  we don't know because they were classy enough to pull out of their full court press.
[/quote]

Silsbee still couldn't score 170. Nothing against Silsbee, but they just can't.
[/quote]

Well, there's mathmatical / scientific proof for you. ::)  Silsbee couldn't because Burgundy says they couldn't. ??? ???

[homeless]

[quote name="Ron Burgundy" post="741760" timestamp="1263151280"]
[quote author=tigersvoice link=topic=64474.msg741666#msg741666 date=1263132188]
[quote author=Ron Burgundy link=topic=64474.msg741660#msg741660 date=1263109148]
[quote author=bullets13 link=topic=64474.msg740858#msg740858 date=1262977240]
[quote author=Ron Burgundy link=topic=64474.msg740846#msg740846 date=1262975731]
[quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=64474.msg740822#msg740822 date=1262973304]
I agree. Had Silsbee continued to play in the manner that Yates played the ENTIRE game, then Silsbee would have beaten Legacy by a simuliar score that Yates beat Lee.
[/quote]

Except Silsbee couldn't score 170
[/quote]

they might have.  we don't know because they were classy enough to pull out of their full court press.
[/quote]

Silsbee still couldn't score 170. Nothing against Silsbee, but they just can't.
[/quote]

Well, there's mathmatical / scientific proof for you. ::)  Silsbee couldn't because Burgundy says they couldn't. ??? ???



[/quote]

If I am correct Silsbee only put up 59 on Legacy at halftime. Yates had already scored 100 points by halftime and they reached 170 while still pressing Lee throughout the second half. It's nothing against Silsbee, because nobody in this area can put up 170 on anyone. If you are from Silsbee, don't be offended because scoring 170 is an extremely difficult task.

Also, I remember hearing of a story where a coach's team scored 100 points on a "special needs" school and he lost his job over it. I believe that is wrong. However, I don't believe running up the score on a school who has just as many students as Yates, who go to a school in the same city as Yates and are all healthy young men just like the kids at Yates. [b][u]Hopefully everyone will stop crying about Yates scoring 170 and move on with their lives.[/u][/b]
[/quote]
Ain't gonna stop, cuz Yates is going to do it again and again, probly more. Their district is very weak.

[westend1]

We shall see.  After all the negative attention put on the program, I'm betting they take it down a notch when they get up big.  I wouldn't bet my life savings on it though.

[shorttexas1]

[quote name="team first" post="740785" timestamp="1262971052"]
Yep Dove, Not necessary, but there is a difference, it was one time... Yates continues to do it..record, who cares about that..Nobody...just win , go undefeated, win back to back and do it right. 16pts is not what I would call an embarassment...135 pts is a little different. Until you've been in a situation where someone does not pull the dogs off, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND...it is plain unsportsman-like and classless..hes filling his ego, but not smart enough to understand that it's not his coaching that makes them good...My sister could win big with that group, and she thinks the offense stays on one end, and the defense stays on the other, like backin the day.
[/quote]

Teamfirst, you are ill-informed.  This guy has won with more than just this Yates team. He was nationally ranked and pretty darn tough with  Hightower as well.  He did not win the big one there but he has with Yates.  They have been dominating since he arrived.  Look at the record books and find out where they were before he got there.  They hadn't won that district in years and don't even mention a true playoff run.  They were considered a football school!  Yes your sister can take this polished group of well coached kids and win but could she have taken them from freshman and built this powerhouse?  Let me answer that for you... NO!!!! 

[shorttexas1]

And you guys like to huff and puff on how talented Yates is when they are not all THAT talented. They are the only team in the National top 50 WITHOUT a national top 150 rated kid.  This is a heck of a team but you may not hear a thing about these kids after high school... They will fade into obscurity.  Joseph Young is the only kid with a next level game, that could actually make some noise on a Providence squad. But Peters is a 6' guy in a PG's body with no PG  skills (he can barely dribble). Darius Gardner is a sub 6' point guard that will be a decent contributer on a small D1... But I tell you that he is not better than any of the Hancocks or Skip Jackson.  They had decent careers but aren't Pro prospects just like Gardner.  The only other kid that may do a little bit is the 6'3" newly starting Elton Roy, but he took a long time to develop.  He was highly rated in the Houston area out of middle school, but feel off the map by under performing.

So yes I say Wise coaching is a BBBBIIIIGGGG part of their success.

[dayton]

[quote name="shorttexas1" post="742139" timestamp="1263228359"]
And you guys like to huff and puff on how talented Yates is when they are not all THAT talented. They are the only team in the National top 50 WITHOUT a national top 150 rated kid.  This is a heck of a team but you may not hear a thing about these kids after high school... They will fade into obscurity.  Joseph Young is the only kid with a next level game, that could actually make some noise on a Providence squad. But Peters is a 6' guy in a PG's body with no PG  skills (he can barely dribble). Darius Gardner is a sub 6' point guard that will be a decent contributer on a small D1... But I tell you that he is not better than any of the Hancocks or Skip Jackson.  They had decent careers but aren't Pro prospects just like Gardner.  The only other kid that may do a little bit is the 6'3" newly starting Elton Roy, but he took a long time to develop.  He was highly rated in the Houston area out of middle school, but feel off the map by under performing.

So yes I say Wise coaching is a BBBBIIIIGGGG part of their success.
[/quote]

I agree... his coaching is a big part. He was also successful at Kingwood, where his son played for him.

But talent does play a part.... since you know them so well... I'm sure you know he convinced a couple of players with family that have Yates ties to come and play.

Addressing another point on this thread... Once again... no one wants or wanted JY to stop playing or play with less intensity...

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="shorttexas1" post="742139" timestamp="1263228359"]
And you guys like to huff and puff on how talented Yates is when they are not all THAT talented. They are the only team in the National top 50 WITHOUT a national top 150 rated kid.  This is a heck of a team but you may not hear a thing about these kids after high school... They will fade into obscurity.  Joseph Young is the only kid with a next level game, that could actually make some noise on a Providence squad. But Peters is a 6' guy in a PG's body with no PG  skills (he can barely dribble). Darius Gardner is a sub 6' point guard that will be a decent contributer on a small D1... But I tell you that he is not better than any of the Hancocks or Skip Jackson.  They had decent careers but aren't Pro prospects just like Gardner.  The only other kid that may do a little bit is the 6'3" newly starting Elton Roy, but he took a long time to develop.  He was highly rated in the Houston area out of middle school, but feel off the map by under performing.

So yes I say Wise [b]coaching[/b] is a BBBBIIIIGGGG part of their success.
[/quote]

Change that to recruiting and we can agree. ;)

[team first]

Come on Short...Barely DI, wow, most teams wish they had a juco player here or there, this team has many college prospects. Sure this coach has contributed, maybe even can coach a little. But all of these kids did not attend the feeder schools of Yates. Just did not happen. he kind of does it the same way his kid ended at Kingwood..Moved  couple of times to get the right fit.Where is the best chance my kid or these other kids have a chance to get together and win a championship??? Really no big deal, the UIL allows it, and its really the UIL at fault..Just saying a crop of AAU talent makes a coach look preety good huh...Do you agree with that?

[shorttexas1]

[quote name="dayton" post="742140" timestamp="1263229314"]
[quote author=shorttexas1 link=topic=64474.msg742139#msg742139 date=1263228359]
And you guys like to huff and puff on how talented Yates is when they are not all THAT talented. They are the only team in the National top 50 WITHOUT a national top 150 rated kid.  This is a heck of a team but you may not hear a thing about these kids after high school... They will fade into obscurity.  Joseph Young is the only kid with a next level game, that could actually make some noise on a Providence squad. But Peters is a 6' guy in a PG's body with no PG  skills (he can barely dribble). Darius Gardner is a sub 6' point guard that will be a decent contributer on a small D1... But I tell you that he is not better than any of the Hancocks or Skip Jackson.  They had decent careers but aren't Pro prospects just like Gardner.  The only other kid that may do a little bit is the 6'3" newly starting Elton Roy, but he took a long time to develop.  He was highly rated in the Houston area out of middle school, but feel off the map by under performing.

So yes I say Wise coaching is a BBBBIIIIGGGG part of their success.
[/quote]

I agree... his coaching is a big part. He was also successful at Kingwood, where his son played for him.

But talent does play a part.... since you know them so well... I'm sure you know he convinced a couple of players with family that have Yates ties to come and play.

Addressing another point on this thread... Once again... no one wants or wanted JY to stop playing or play with less intensity...


[/quote]

He NEVER coached at Kingwood.

[shorttexas1]

[quote name="team first" post="742143" timestamp="1263229669"]
Come on Short...Barely DI, wow, most teams wish they had a juco player here or there, this team has many college prospects. Sure this coach has contributed, maybe even can coach a little. But all of these kids did not attend the feeder schools of Yates. Just did not happen. he kind of does it the same way his kid ended at Kingwood..Moved  couple of times to get the right fit.Where is the best chance my kid or these other kids have a chance to get together and win a championship??? Really no big deal, the UIL allows it, and its really the UIL at fault..Just saying a crop of AAU talent makes a coach look preety good huh...Do you agree with that?
[/quote]

Again... You are wrong!  Nic Wise played at Hightower under his father.  They were State ranked with plenty of talent to boot, he could have stayed there and coached both sons to titles.  Hightower is still a very good program with plenty of talent to this day, and he could have easily built a team around Nic.  Greg quit coaching because he had two sons playing ball and wanted to watch them in their high school years.  Kingwood was good but there were schools that had much better talent than Kingwood.  Singletary and Wise made a strong High school tadem for sure.  But he chose Kingwood to live because, I THINK, the coach.  He is a classy guy and teaches defense really well.  That was the hole in Nic's game and the Kingwood coach was the man to fill it.  But Nic pushed that team over the hmp from being good to being GREAT.  Kingwood year in and year out is one of the best coached teams in Texas. 

I do agree that there is opportunity in Houston to get a kid from another district to move into your district.  Family ties as well as the low income make a perfect way to move.  Most low income parents are on housing or in appartments.  Which makes it easy to move aound.  BUT why would anyone in there right mind choose 3rd Ward to move into so their kids can play ball?  Easily the highest chrime rate in houston comes from this area.  There is really no up-scale part of the area... Even the colleges are right smack in the middle of the ghetto.  Athletes have BEEn there, but usually lean towards football, with Greg there things may have changed!  If you have the money there are plenty of better places to move your kid.  Why choose a school with low testing scores and high chrime?  You tell me where it makes sense? 

[Guest GCMPats]

[quote name="shorttexas1" post="742153" timestamp="1263230712"]
[quote author=team first link=topic=64474.msg742143#msg742143 date=1263229669]
Come on Short...Barely DI, wow, most teams wish they had a juco player here or there, this team has many college prospects. Sure this coach has contributed, maybe even can coach a little. But all of these kids did not attend the feeder schools of Yates. Just did not happen. he kind of does it the same way his kid ended at Kingwood..Moved  couple of times to get the right fit.Where is the best chance my kid or these other kids have a chance to get together and win a championship??? Really no big deal, the UIL allows it, and its really the UIL at fault..Just saying a crop of AAU talent makes a coach look preety good huh...Do you agree with that?
[/quote]

Again... You are wrong!  Nic Wise played at Hightower under his father.  They were State ranked with plenty of talent to boot, he could have stayed there and coached both sons to titles.  Hightower is still a very good program with plenty of talent to this day, and he could have easily built a team around Nic.  Greg quit coaching because he had two sons playing ball and wanted to watch them in their high school years.  Kingwood was good but there were schools that had much better talent than Kingwood.  Singletary and Wise made a strong High school tadem for sure.  But he chose Kingwood to live because, I THINK, the coach.  He is a classy guy and teaches defense really well.  That was the hole in Nic's game and the Kingwood coach was the man to fill it.  But Nic pushed that team over the hmp from being good to being GREAT.  Kingwood year in and year out is one of the best coached teams in Texas.  

I do agree that there is opportunity in Houston to get a kid from another district to move into your district.  Family ties as well as the low income make a perfect way to move.  Most low income parents are on housing or in appartments.  Which makes it easy to move aound.  BUT why would anyone in there right mind choose 3rd Ward to move into so their kids can play ball?  Easily the highest chrime rate in houston comes from this area.  There is really no up-scale part of the area... Even the colleges are right smack in the middle of the ghetto.  Athletes have BEEn there, but usually lean towards football, with Greg there things may have changed!  If you have the money there are plenty of better places to move your kid.  Why choose a school with low testing scores and high chrime?  You tell me where it makes sense?  
[/quote]

I saw Nic play for Kingwood. Here is his rivals bio.
http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/bviewplayer.asp?Player=65931

His brother Deondre also played for Kingwood. I do not recall seeing him play.

[shorttexas1]

He was not anything special (younger brother).  He was bigger and taller but not as skilled.  He was a sophmore when Nic was a senior.  He got plenty of bench minutes then, had he started as a Junior and Senior.

[dayton]

[quote name="shorttexas1" post="742144" timestamp="1263229754"]
[quote author=dayton link=topic=64474.msg742140#msg742140 date=1263229314]
[quote author=shorttexas1 link=topic=64474.msg742139#msg742139 date=1263228359]
And you guys like to huff and puff on how talented Yates is when they are not all THAT talented. They are the only team in the National top 50 WITHOUT a national top 150 rated kid.  This is a heck of a team but you may not hear a thing about these kids after high school... They will fade into obscurity.  Joseph Young is the only kid with a next level game, that could actually make some noise on a Providence squad. But Peters is a 6' guy in a PG's body with no PG  skills (he can barely dribble). Darius Gardner is a sub 6' point guard that will be a decent contributer on a small D1... But I tell you that he is not better than any of the Hancocks or Skip Jackson.  They had decent careers but aren't Pro prospects just like Gardner.  The only other kid that may do a little bit is the 6'3" newly starting Elton Roy, but he took a long time to develop.  He was highly rated in the Houston area out of middle school, but feel off the map by under performing.

So yes I say Wise coaching is a BBBBIIIIGGGG part of their success.
[/quote]

I agree... his coaching is a big part. He was also successful at Kingwood, where his son played for him.

But talent does play a part.... since you know them so well... I'm sure you know he convinced a couple of players with family that have Yates ties to come and play.

Addressing another point on this thread... Once again... no one wants or wanted JY to stop playing or play with less intensity...


[/quote]

He NEVER coached at Kingwood.
[/quote]

Heard on the radio that he did... my mistake.

[shorttexas1]

He did have a staff job but that head coach has been there since the 90's!

[team first]

A little confused here..Nic Wise ended up playing for Kingwood, but I'm wrong..Clarify please..I like to be right sometimes..If the dad could have coached both kids to state championships, why didnt he?  If he is that good , I just dont understand. Also, the point about sending him to the best program. They won back to back, with some of the best players and a dang good coach..Kingwood was class, I understand they could not have beat people by 100, but they were the best team in the state and did it right..Wish some could have picked up on that!!! I will tell you what makes sense to some, have their kid play at a high profile and win championships...Nic Wise!!!

[Guest GCMPats]

[quote name="team first" post="742203" timestamp="1263235326"]
A little confused here..Nic Wise ended up playing for Kingwood, but I'm wrong..Clarify please..I like to be right sometimes..If the dad could have coached both kids to state championships, why didnt he?  If he is that good , I just dont understand. Also, the point about sending him to the best program. They won back to back, with some of the best players and a dang good coach..Kingwood was class, I understand they could not have beat people by 100, but they were the best team in the state and did it right..Wish some could have picked up on that!!! I will tell you what makes sense to some, have their kid play at a high profile and win championships...Nic Wise!!!
[/quote]

I would assume that some schools, Kingwood included, do not approve of, nor appreciate Coach Wise's "style" of basketball.
Not sure why his boy's did not play for him. Based on their size, maybe they were not suited for that style of play either. Nic could shoot the lights out, but did not play "above the rim".

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="westend1" post="741827" timestamp="1263161808"]
We shall see.  After all the negative attention put on the program, I'm betting they take it down a notch when they get up big.   I wouldn't bet my life savings on it though.
[/quote]Wise has the green light from HISD administrators.

[Guest GCMPats]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="742223" timestamp="1263237179"]
[quote author=westend1 link=topic=64474.msg741827#msg741827 date=1263161808]
We shall see.  After all the negative attention put on the program, I'm betting they take it down a notch when they get up big.   I wouldn't bet my life savings on it though.
[/quote]Wise has the green light from HISD administrators.
[/quote]

I would have expected nothing less from HISD.

This is the same district that wants to fire teacher's based on student test scores. Maybe they should be firing some students and their parents. You can lead a horse to water......

[westend1]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="742223" timestamp="1263237179"]
[quote author=westend1 link=topic=64474.msg741827#msg741827 date=1263161808]
We shall see.  After all the negative attention put on the program, I'm betting they take it down a notch when they get up big.   I wouldn't bet my life savings on it though.
[/quote]Wise has the green light from HISD administrators.
[/quote]

Publicly, he might have a green light.  I'm still betting that he was told privately to tone it down.  i don't have any inside info.  I'm just reading quotes from the AD and he didn't sound too pleased with the situation. Here is the quote:

 Wade said HISD’s mercy rule policies are determined on a game-by-game basis. Tuesday night. Both coaches chose to finish the contest.

“In retrospect, [b]should we have done something differently? Probably[/b],” Wade said. “At the time, the kids and coaches wanted to finish the game so we let that happen.”

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="GCMPats" post="742207" timestamp="1263236035"]
[quote author=team first link=topic=64474.msg742203#msg742203 date=1263235326]
A little confused here..Nic Wise ended up playing for Kingwood, but I'm wrong..Clarify please..I like to be right sometimes..If the dad could have coached both kids to state championships, why didnt he?  If he is that good , I just dont understand. Also, the point about sending him to the best program. They won back to back, with some of the best players and a dang good coach..Kingwood was class, I understand they could not have beat people by 100, but they were the best team in the state and did it right..Wish some could have picked up on that!!! I will tell you what makes sense to some, have their kid play at a high profile and win championships...Nic Wise!!!
[/quote]

I would assume that some schools, Kingwood included, do not approve of, nor appreciate Coach Wise's "style" of basketball.
Not sure why his boy's did not play for him. Based on their size, maybe they were not suited for that style of play either. Nic could shoot the lights out, but did not play "above the rim".
[/quote]You need to check up on Coach Wise's coaching record. He was winning BEFORE Jack Yates.  Wise was coaching in the Aldine district and his son decided to attend Kingwood

[Guest GCMPats]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="742253" timestamp="1263240419"]
[quote author=GCMPats link=topic=64474.msg742207#msg742207 date=1263236035]
[quote author=team first link=topic=64474.msg742203#msg742203 date=1263235326]
A little confused here..Nic Wise ended up playing for Kingwood, but I'm wrong..Clarify please..I like to be right sometimes..If the dad could have coached both kids to state championships, why didnt he?  If he is that good , I just dont understand. Also, the point about sending him to the best program. They won back to back, with some of the best players and a dang good coach..Kingwood was class, I understand they could not have beat people by 100, but they were the best team in the state and did it right..Wish some could have picked up on that!!! I will tell you what makes sense to some, have their kid play at a high profile and win championships...Nic Wise!!!
[/quote]

I would assume that some schools, Kingwood included, do not approve of, nor appreciate Coach Wise's "style" of basketball.
Not sure why his boy's did not play for him. Based on their size, maybe they were not suited for that style of play either. Nic could shoot the lights out, but did not play "above the rim".
[/quote]You need to check up on Coach Wise's coaching record. He was winning BEFORE Jack Yates.  Wise was coaching in the Aldine district and his son decided to attend Kingwood
[/quote]

I am aware of his record. Never questioned his "record", just his decision to run up the score on a lesser opponent.

[shorttexas1]

Wise did not head coach when Nic was playing his last two years.  He was at Hightower before hand and was winning .  He was State and nationally ranked when he had Lenny Smith, U of H, there.  He went three rounds deep with Nic on his team.  He resigned to watch his kids play and Nic went to Kingwood.  Personally I would have kept coaching and my sons would have played for me.  But he wanted to step down and be there like a Dad I guess.  Nic's freshman year at Hightower.. Started two seniors, two sophmores and a freshman and finished the year in the top 15 and had a good playoff run.  I was surpurised when he left as well, but he stated that his sons were the reason.  

I remember the team so well because Nic had given Arizona a verbal in 8th grade, so I took the time out to go see exactly who this kid was.  

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="westend1" post="742228" timestamp="1263237664"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=64474.msg742223#msg742223 date=1263237179]
[quote author=westend1 link=topic=64474.msg741827#msg741827 date=1263161808]
We shall see.  After all the negative attention put on the program, I'm betting they take it down a notch when they get up big.   I wouldn't bet my life savings on it though.
[/quote]Wise has the green light from HISD administrators.
[/quote]

Publicly, he might have a green light.  I'm still betting that he was told privately to tone it down.  i don't have any inside info.  I'm just reading quotes from the AD and he didn't sound too pleased with the situation. 
[/quote]hMM! Take a look at the Yayes Sharpstown scores and make your decision.

[Guest GCMPats]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="742264" timestamp="1263241400"]
[quote author=westend1 link=topic=64474.msg742228#msg742228 date=1263237664]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=64474.msg742223#msg742223 date=1263237179]
[quote author=westend1 link=topic=64474.msg741827#msg741827 date=1263161808]
We shall see.  After all the negative attention put on the program, I'm betting they take it down a notch when they get up big.   I wouldn't bet my life savings on it though.
[/quote]Wise has the green light from HISD administrators.
[/quote]

Publicly, he might have a green light.  I'm still betting that he was told privately to tone it down.  i don't have any inside info.  I'm just reading quotes from the AD and he didn't sound too pleased with the situation. 
[/quote]hMM! Take a look at the Yayes Sharpstown scores and make your decision.
[/quote]

That score at least gives the "apperance" that Sharpstown was an active participant.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/hso/6806651.html