Cardinal Backer

[baddog]

I am not calling you out. I have seen you post about property taxes and was wondering how you feel about this. It sounds really good but when you take away taxed monies, you have to get it from somewhere else. In Texas, our property taxes also pay for our local school districts. So I am asking, without sarcasm, is this a good deal, and if so, where does the city/county recoup these losses? I am retired and have no kids in local schools, yet I still pay school taxes. Your thoughts?

Anyone else can respond too.

 

 

[CardinalBacker]

4 hours ago, baddog said:

I am not calling you out. I have seen you post about property taxes and was wondering how you feel about this. It sounds really good but when you take away taxed monies, you have to get it from somewhere else. In Texas, our property taxes also pay for our local school districts. So I am asking, without sarcasm, is this a good deal, and if so, where does the city/county recoup these losses? I am retired and have no kids in local schools, yet I still pay school taxes. Your thoughts?

Anyone else can respond too.

 

 

Thanks for asking. I’m opposed to doing away with property taxes for a few reasons- primarily, in regards to “how will we replace this tax revenue?” If you normally pay $3k per year in property taxes, you’d just expect to pick it up elsewhere, through sales tax or an excise (vat) tax. The only problem is that the redistribution of that burden won’t be passed down evenly. Parkdale Mall Will no longer pay property taxes, but WILL pay a higher sales tax on the lightbulbs and toilet paper that they buy. They’re going to pay way less.  
 

A guy that owns a dozen rent houses will see his property tax bill shrink dramatically. Will he pass the savings on to his tenants? Of course not. The people renting won’t see any change at all in their cost of living.  But the average Joe Homeowner who’s already having trouble making ends meet will surely see an increase in the cost of everything he buys to survive.  It’s been proven that increases in sales taxes hurt lower income people worse than wealthy people. A larger percentage of their income will be spent on taxes, while people with multiple properties see their tax liability decrease.  
 

Another HUGE problem is that money won’t be collected locally. Your sales tax dollars will be collected by an agency of the state that will then redistribute the funds as they see fit. Good luck getting those hairy-legged women in the Peoples’ Republic of Austin to send anything back our way. How well can rural counties lobby against the Harris, Bexar, Dallas, and Tarrant counties? We’ll all be sucking hind teat, if you know what I mean. 
 

The cost of education is high. Right now the average annual spending per student in Texas is almost $10k/year. Assuming you had three kids at home, could you afford to educate them at a cost of $30k per year? I sure couldn’t.  Most people who have kids in school simply can’t afford to shoulder the cost of educating them by themselves.   That’s how we ended up spreading the cost of their education among all property owners.  
 

I’m not saying that property taxes are fair, but it’s the most fair system that we’ve got. And to be frank, the voting public will vote against their own interests when instructed to. I’d be amazed if you didn’t just vote for politicians here in Texas that were in favor of giving tax dollars to rich parents to offset the cost of private education for their spoiled brats. Not necessarily you personally, but Texans as a group just sent their legislators to Austin with a mandate to make vouchers for private school for rich kids a public responsibility, while simultaneously arguing that “taxation is theft.”

 

It’s bananas. 

[baddog]

56 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

Thanks for asking. I’m opposed to doing away with property taxes for a few reasons- primarily, in regards to “how will we replace this tax revenue?” If you normally pay $3k per year in property taxes, you’d just expect to pick it up elsewhere, through sales tax or an excise (vat) tax. The only problem is that the redistribution of that burden won’t be passed down evenly. Parkdale Mall Will no longer pay property taxes, but WILL pay a higher sales tax on the lightbulbs and toilet paper that they buy. They’re going to pay way less.  
 

A guy that owns a dozen rent houses will see his property tax bill shrink dramatically. Will he pass the savings on to his tenants? Of course not. The people renting won’t see any change at all in their cost of living.  But the average Joe Homeowner who’s already having trouble making ends meet will surely see an increase in the cost of everything he buys to survive.  It’s been proven that increases in sales taxes hurt lower income people worse than wealthy people. A larger percentage of their income will be spent on taxes, while people with multiple properties see their tax liability decrease.  
 

Another HUGE problem is that money won’t be collected locally. Your sales tax dollars will be collected by an agency of the state that will then redistribute the funds as they see fit. Good luck getting those hairy-legged women in the Peoples’ Republic of Austin to send anything back our way. How well can rural counties lobby against the Harris, Bexar, Dallas, and Tarrant counties? We’ll all be sucking hind teat, if you know what I mean. 
 

The cost of education is high. Right now the average annual spending per student in Texas is almost $10k/year. Assuming you had three kids at home, could you afford to educate them at a cost of $30k per year? I sure couldn’t.  Most people who have kids in school simply can’t afford to shoulder the cost of educating them by themselves.   That’s how we ended up spreading the cost of their education among all property owners.  
 

I’m not saying that property taxes are fair, but it’s the most fair system that we’ve got. And to be frank, the voting public will vote against their own interests when instructed to. I’d be amazed if you didn’t just vote for politicians here in Texas that were in favor of giving tax dollars to rich parents to offset the cost of private education for their spoiled brats. Not necessarily you personally, but Texans as a group just sent their legislators to Austin with a mandate to make vouchers for private school for rich kids a public responsibility, while simultaneously arguing that “taxation is theft.”

 

It’s bananas. 

Thanks for the assessment. I knew it sounded too good to be true. The vouchers is one thing I disagreed with Abbott on. They have a whole thread on it. Things like this need to be explained to the general public such as your take. 

[mat]

Property tax in general is not fair. However, it’s a price to pay to avoid a state income tax. Adjusted corporate tax could help supliment.

[SmashMouth]

18 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

Thanks for asking. I’m opposed to doing away with property taxes for a few reasons- primarily, in regards to “how will we replace this tax revenue?” If you normally pay $3k per year in property taxes, you’d just expect to pick it up elsewhere, through sales tax or an excise (vat) tax. The only problem is that the redistribution of that burden won’t be passed down evenly. Parkdale Mall Will no longer pay property taxes, but WILL pay a higher sales tax on the lightbulbs and toilet paper that they buy. They’re going to pay way less.  
 

A guy that owns a dozen rent houses will see his property tax bill shrink dramatically. Will he pass the savings on to his tenants? Of course not. The people renting won’t see any change at all in their cost of living.  But the average Joe Homeowner who’s already having trouble making ends meet will surely see an increase in the cost of everything he buys to survive.  It’s been proven that increases in sales taxes hurt lower income people worse than wealthy people. A larger percentage of their income will be spent on taxes, while people with multiple properties see their tax liability decrease.  
 

Another HUGE problem is that money won’t be collected locally. Your sales tax dollars will be collected by an agency of the state that will then redistribute the funds as they see fit. Good luck getting those hairy-legged women in the Peoples’ Republic of Austin to send anything back our way. How well can rural counties lobby against the Harris, Bexar, Dallas, and Tarrant counties? We’ll all be sucking hind teat, if you know what I mean. 
 

The cost of education is high. Right now the average annual spending per student in Texas is almost $10k/year. Assuming you had three kids at home, could you afford to educate them at a cost of $30k per year? I sure couldn’t.  Most people who have kids in school simply can’t afford to shoulder the cost of educating them by themselves.   That’s how we ended up spreading the cost of their education among all property owners.  
 

I’m not saying that property taxes are fair, but it’s the most fair system that we’ve got. And to be frank, the voting public will vote against their own interests when instructed to. I’d be amazed if you didn’t just vote for politicians here in Texas that were in favor of giving tax dollars to rich parents to offset the cost of private education for their spoiled brats. Not necessarily you personally, but Texans as a group just sent their legislators to Austin with a mandate to make vouchers for private school for rich kids a public responsibility, while simultaneously arguing that “taxation is theft.”

 

It’s bananas. 

I agree with the better part of your post...especially the part of the ridiculous short-sighted mandate for school vouchers which I feel will cost all of us Texans in the long run. The property tax system is far from perfect, but it's definitely better than a state withholding tax in my opinion.

One of my biggest issues with the property tax system (which is a whole 'nother topic altogether) is the property valuation process. For instance, certain aspects of your property are not taken into account when appraising its market value. My driveway was all but destroyed from hurricane Harvey. I appealed my valuation to the appraisal district, and I was told driveways were not considered when appraising the FMV. So if I have a $500,000 house, but no way to drive to the house, don't you think that has a bearing on the property valuation? Same goes for the land. Much of it damaged by the flooding, but according to them, it is inconsequential to the appraisal. 

I could list examples all day, but I'll stop there for now.

[CardinalBacker]

4 hours ago, SmashMouth said:

I agree with the better part of your post...especially the part of the ridiculous short-sighted mandate for school vouchers which I feel will cost all of us Texans in the long run. The property tax system is far from perfect, but it's definitely better than a state withholding tax in my opinion.

One of my biggest issues with the property tax system (which is a whole 'nother topic altogether) is the property valuation process. For instance, certain aspects of your property are not taken into account when appraising its market value. My driveway was all but destroyed from hurricane Harvey. I appealed my valuation to the appraisal district, and I was told driveways were not considered when appraising the FMV. So if I have a $500,000 house, but no way to drive to the house, don't you think that has a bearing on the property valuation? Same goes for the land. Much of it damaged by the flooding, but according to them, it is inconsequential to the appraisal. 

I could list examples all day, but I'll stop there for now.

You’re not wrong. The CAD is trying to make sure that your appraised value is within 95-105% of its actual market value this year. Sometimes they’re on point and sometimes they’re way off. BUT, if my house has a sale price of  $100k, I don’t leave the table with $100k. By the time you back out closing costs, a survey, title policy, buyer concessions and realtor fees, I’d be doing good to leave the take with $87k. I’m annually paying property tax on the fees that were paid once to others.  That’s not fair IMO… but I don’t know how to make it any more fair. 
 

I don’t disagree with your driveway scenario, but like they said-the value of paving  isn’t considered as a part of your CAD appraisal. Two mostly identical houses…Should somebody with a long driveway pay more than somebody with a short one? 

Same goes with fences… i don’t have one, but neighbor has a bunch of money tied up in a four rail fence and remote controlled entry gate. They just don’t consider those things. 

There’s good ground and bad ground. Some pastures stay wet half of the year, but others drain immediately-the acreage is taxed the same while we all agree that the actual values would vary greatly. 
 

It’s an inexact science that should be explained better, but it’s hard to reason when the typical response is made in anger. 

[SmashMouth]

1 minute ago, CardinalBacker said:

I don’t disagree with your driveway scenario, but like they said-the value of paving  isn’t considered as a part of your CAD appraisal. Two mostly identical houses…Should somebody with a long driveway pay more than somebody with a short one? 

Yep. But what they fail to address is that without a decent driveway, no way in hell am I getting the appraised value for my house and property.

[CardinalBacker]

45 minutes ago, SmashMouth said:

Yep. But what they fail to address is that without a decent driveway, no way in hell am I getting the appraised value for my house and property.

You’re right. The way that the process typically works is that the CAD looks at nuts and bolts. Square footage multiplied by a value per foot and sets your appraised value. They’ll usually make correction if you protest with an actual error, like “that storage building has been gone for two years” or something along those lines… if you have a question of value (like a deteriorated driveway or a partially finished interior), they usually stick by their calculations. You’ll then need to ask for a hearing by the Appraisal Review Board-they’re independent citizens that mediate disputes between the CAD appraisers and the taxpayers. They’ve got more leeway to adjust value than the appraisers that are working exclusively off of ratios and numbers. 
 

The only time that I’ve had success arguing value with the CAD was one year when I’d paid for an independent appraisal for a home equity loan in that exact year, and the detailed report from the independent appraiser swayed the county appraiser to adjust the value downward before I went to see the ARB-and I think it happened because they knew I’d prevail at the ARB hearing with my evidence. But we still negotiated a little bit.