thetragichippy Posted June 16, 2023 Report Share Posted June 16, 2023 37 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said: The fact that he hasn't yet been tried isn't proof of his innocence. I think the basis of our disagreement is the understanding of our justice system. Before Trump, guilt had to be proved, not innocence........ Would you provide the "law" you keep mentioning concerning the proper way to declassify documents. If it is a law, it should also have punishments listed as well. Unwoke 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalBacker Posted June 16, 2023 Report Share Posted June 16, 2023 3 hours ago, thetragichippy said: I think the basis of our disagreement is the understanding of our justice system. Before Trump, guilt had to be proved, not innocence........ Would you provide the "law" you keep mentioning concerning the proper way to declassify documents. If it is a law, it should also have punishments listed as well. This is the hidden content, please Sign In or Sign Up This is one of the best explanations that I’ve seen. Fwiw, it seems fairly unbiased. The rules/regs are all over the place. Executive order by the President actually plays a big part in the rule structure. I think it’s interesting that the last few Presidents created new orders for how information would be declassified, but Trump didn’t modify the standing orders left by Obama. It makes me think that Trump (being a bureaucratic outsider) paid little mind to the rules and that’s how he ended up in this mess. Long story short, every news cycle keeps mentioning that trump had nuclear secrets… I think that’s pointing to the fact that he had classified materials on hand that he wouldn’t have been able to declassify, even as President… the most secret of those can’t be declassified by a president. When you figure in that a) they weren’t his to take b) they were still classified c) he showed them to people who weren’t clearanced to see them and d) he lied to the feds about handing them back over. It’s like every misstep just got him into more peril. If he takes a bunch of records, nobody really cares. Taking a bunch of top secret stuff? That’s a little more serious. Showing it to people who aren’t supposed to see it? Ok, this getting pretty bad. Hiding them away from his own attorneys, then lying to federal investigators about giving them ALL back? He’s in serious trouble at this point. My honest opinion was that it was all likely a big witch hunt-making a mountain out of a molehill. I really didn’t pay a lot of attention until the indictment came out… that’s when it really caught my attention. I think at this point he’s throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks, but the reasonable people are starting to back off now. There was a lot of outcry when they raided his house. Then we found out that some of it really was classified, even if that was still ambiguous. We also found out that the feds found docs AFTER he’d supposedly handed them all back. The indictment shows that he was showing secret to reporters, and that he (through his attorneys) had outright lied about having the docs. It’s like what happened to Bill Clinton… it’s not that he boinked an intern, it’s that he lied about boinking an intern that got him in a bind. Martha Stewart didn’t get locked up for insider trading, she got locked up for lying to SEC Investigators about insider trading. It’s the reason that they indicted Trump’s valet, too… he helped hide the documents and is in big trouble. It’s why both of the attorneys who swore that all of the classified materials were returned resigned after the indictment… they realized that trump put them all in harms way by tricking them into lying to the feds. It’s why the arguments are so disingenuous about declassifying. That’s not the problem anymore… the act of hiding them from his attorneys, then lying about giving them back is the smoking gun. There’s nothing wrong with trying to see what the inside of your intern feels like-but you can get into huge trouble for lying about trying to see what the inside of your intern feels like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5GallonBucket Posted June 17, 2023 Report Share Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/14/2023 at 9:16 AM, LumRaiderFan said: I really have no words, none of this is true and any rational person knows this. You can't point out any policies where Obama rebuilt the economy because there were none. He was the one that proclaimed high unemployment was here to stay, nothing to do about it, Trump came in and said BS and made him look like the unqualified fool he was while bringing unemployment to record lows, including the lowest unemployment for minorities ever (how racist of him) as well as having us energy independent for the first time ever If you only received crumbs under Trump, you are a very poor money manager, his tax policies were good for everyone, I see you hold to the democrat playbook on class warfare, gotta hate those rich folks. Illegal immigration was lower than at any time and there was nothing brutal about it, you must have forgotten that it was Obama that built the cages. Putin feared Trump because he knew he would act, why do you think he waited until Joe and the idiot were in office to invade Ukraine? He knew he would have another coward like Clinton that would be afraid to act. We received the useless vaccine that everyone said we had to have because of the actions Trump took to ramp up production, you know this and if you disagree, show me a timeline of how things occurred to back up your claim, you can't. As far as the racism and xenophobia, all lies made up by the left, absolutely nothing to it. Biden however, has a track record of racism, you just choose to ignore it because he's a democrat. Border crossings are a fraction of what they used to be? Really? This is the hidden content, please Sign In or Sign Up Biden treats the office with respect, what a joke, he has used his time in office to make money with his crackhead son and crooked brothers while selling the American people out. You have shown yourself to be ignorant of current events. Don’t waste your time. LumRaiderFan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big girl Posted June 18, 2023 Report Share Posted June 18, 2023 On 6/10/2023 at 5:01 PM, baddog said: Let’s see…..we trust presidents with launch codes for nuclear weapons, but have some documents at your house, well that’s a no-no. Makes sense to me. Biden with the launch codes scares me more than documents beside his Vette. He is no longer the President Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Wildcats Posted June 18, 2023 Report Share Posted June 18, 2023 1 hour ago, Big girl said: He is no longer the President Well, look who came out of exile. You should go back and take biden, harris, and the whole Dimocrat party with you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baddog Posted June 18, 2023 Report Share Posted June 18, 2023 1 hour ago, Big girl said: He is no longer the President So what does that mean, Captain Obvious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Wildcats Posted June 18, 2023 Report Share Posted June 18, 2023 1 hour ago, baddog said: So what does that mean, Captain Obvious? About as “smart” as biden! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reagan Posted June 20, 2023 Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 Trump to Bret Baier in New Interview: 'Everything Was Declassified; I Had the Right to Declassify'! This is the hidden content, please Sign In or Sign Up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UT alum Posted June 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 38 minutes ago, Reagan said: Trump to Bret Baier in New Interview: 'Everything Was Declassified; I Had the Right to Declassify'! This is the hidden content, please Sign In or Sign Up What does that mean to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reagan Posted June 20, 2023 Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 Trump: I Didn’t Show Any Secret Documents to Anyone, Those Were Articles! From the article: "President Donald Trump responded to claims in the federal indictment of him that he showed a secret document to other people by stating that there wasn’t any document “These were newspaper stories, magazine stories, and articles.” And that while he couldn’t declassify things while he was out of office, “There was nothing to declassify.” He added, “When I said that I couldn’t declassify it now, that’s because I wasn’t President. I never made any bones about that. When I’m not President, I can’t declassify. … But that wasn’t a document. Bret, there was no document. That was a massive amount of papers and everything else, talking about Iran and other things. And it may have been held up or it may not. But that was not a document. I didn’t have a document per se. There was nothing to declassify. These were newspaper stories, magazine stories, and articles.” Earlier in the interview, he stated that he didn’t have any Iran war plans, “that I know of. But everything was declassified.”" Witch Hunt! PS -- It is my understanding that there are not any criminal penalties associated with the Presidential Records Act. This is the hidden content, please Sign In or Sign Up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UT alum Posted June 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 15 minutes ago, Reagan said: Trump: I Didn’t Show Any Secret Documents to Anyone, Those Were Articles! From the article: "President Donald Trump responded to claims in the federal indictment of him that he showed a secret document to other people by stating that there wasn’t any document “These were newspaper stories, magazine stories, and articles.” And that while he couldn’t declassify things while he was out of office, “There was nothing to declassify.” He added, “When I said that I couldn’t declassify it now, that’s because I wasn’t President. I never made any bones about that. When I’m not President, I can’t declassify. … But that wasn’t a document. Bret, there was no document. That was a massive amount of papers and everything else, talking about Iran and other things. And it may have been held up or it may not. But that was not a document. I didn’t have a document per se. There was nothing to declassify. These were newspaper stories, magazine stories, and articles.” Earlier in the interview, he stated that he didn’t have any Iran war plans, “that I know of. But everything was declassified.”" Witch Hunt! PS -- It is my understanding that there are not any criminal penalties associated with the Presidential Records Act. This is the hidden content, please Sign In or Sign Up In other words, “Trump said it, I believe it, that settles it.”? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalBacker Posted June 20, 2023 Report Share Posted June 20, 2023 10 minutes ago, Reagan said: PS -- It is my understanding that there are not any criminal penalties associated with the Presidential Records Act. That's my understanding as well... but the PRA does indicate that Trump should have never had any of those records in the first place. Have you read through a synopsis of the indictment? It doesn't mention the PRA at all. It's mainly about mishandling top secret information, and then lying to the feds about that information. There are some documents that the president simply cannot declassify. Some MUST be declassified by the Department of Defense and some by the Department of Energy. They are alleging that Trump had documents that he couldn't declassify if he still the President, or by just thinking about it. or by executive order, or by grabbing it by the fematalia. It's not a secret... there are some documents that no president can declassify by legislation. If it turns out as it's suggested and Trump did have some docs with that level of classification, he broke the law, Period. But the real question is whether or not Trump lied to investigators by claiming that all classified docs had been returned when he was in fact hiding them away from the feds and even his own counsel. If so, he's in a world of trouble. The problem is that he just keeps contradicting himself. "I don't have any classified docs." "Ok, here's the last of the classified docs." Which is it? You don't have them, or NOW you're giving more back? But then they turn around and find even more stashed all over the place when they finally raid the place. Jeez. He did it. Take your medicine. This is the hidden content, please Sign In or Sign Up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonTheCon2024 Posted June 21, 2023 Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 Redhatters will never, ever change their mind. Besides CB, who was the rare exception and eventually became enlightened 😛 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Wildcats Posted June 21, 2023 Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 8 hours ago, DonTheCon2024 said: Redhatters will never, ever change their mind. Besides CB, who was the rare exception and eventually became enlightened 😛 More like brainwashed DonTheCon2024 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonTheCon2024 Posted June 21, 2023 Report Share Posted June 21, 2023 50 minutes ago, BS Wildcats said: More like brainwashed I want to 🤣🤣 but then remember you’re serious 😵💫😵💫 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UT alum Posted June 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 Tapes, witness testimony corroborating what was shown during the taping… I’m telling you, the hammer’s coming down hard. The Emperor has no clothes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unwoke Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 10 minutes ago, UT alum said: Tapes, witness testimony corroborating what was shown during the taping… I’m telling you, the hammer’s coming down hard. The Emperor has no clothes! I know you’re getting excited and giddy but the leaked recordings of Trump do not incriminate him, but they do suggest Trump prevented a war with Iran. Btw The document he's discussing was NOT recovered from Mar-a-Lago and is NOT in the indictment. Given Trump's penchant for exaggerating, it could've been anything. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unwoke Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 We just caught Joe Biden and Hunter Biden red-handed using bribery, extortion, intimidation, and committing treason. Biden's DOJ ... "QUICK, illegally leak something about Trump."….Smh Reagan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unwoke Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 2 hours ago, UT alum said: Tapes, witness testimony corroborating what was shown during the taping… I’m telling you, the hammer’s coming down hard. The Emperor has no clothes! Yeah we know… You’ve been trying to undress the Emperor for many years now. You really really really really got him this time. At what point do not see this along with the other 7 years of BS for what it really is? Good grief! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UT alum Posted June 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 2 hours ago, Unwoke said: We just caught Joe Biden and Hunter Biden red-handed using bribery, extortion, intimidation, and committing treason. Biden's DOJ ... "QUICK, illegally leak something about Trump."….Smh Who is “we”? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unwoke Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, UT alum said: Who is “we”? Now your playing ignorant. I know that comes natural for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LumRaiderFan Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 10 hours ago, UT alum said: Who is “we”? This is the hidden content, please Sign In or Sign Up I guess "we" = The House Oversight Committee. At some point you're going to have to face reality, lol From the article: Hunter Biden demanded $10 million from a Chinese business associate to "further the interest" of his joint-venture with a Chinese energy, saying that the "Bidens are the best I know at doing exactly" what the chairman of the Chinese Communist Party-linked firm wanted, according to a newly-released WhatsApp message. The House Oversight Committee released the message, dated Aug. 3, 2017. The exchange is between Hunter Biden and CEFC associate Gongwen Dong. Unwoke 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UT alum Posted June 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, LumRaiderFan said: This is the hidden content, please Sign In or Sign Up I guess "we" = The House Oversight Committee. At some point you're going to have to face reality, lol From the article: Hunter Biden demanded $10 million from a Chinese business associate to "further the interest" of his joint-venture with a Chinese energy, saying that the "Bidens are the best I know at doing exactly" what the chairman of the Chinese Communist Party-linked firm wanted, according to a newly-released WhatsApp message. The House Oversight Committee released the message, dated Aug. 3, 2017. The exchange is between Hunter Biden and CEFC associate Gongwen Dong. The House Oversight Committee has zero credibility with me. It’s nothing but a political WITCH HUNT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LumRaiderFan Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 20 minutes ago, UT alum said: The House Oversight Committee has zero credibility with me. It’s nothing but a political WITCH HUNT! Has nothing to do with them, it's ACTUAL evidence that they are presenting. Same sad argument, blast the source so you don't have to deal with realty. I bet when you started this thread you didn't realize the hammer was dropping on your boys. Unwoke 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unwoke Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 46 minutes ago, UT alum said: The House Oversight Committee has zero credibility with me. It’s nothing but a political WITCH HUNT! Facts have zero credibility with you. LumRaiderFan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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