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bullets13

By bullets13
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tvc184
tvc184

If that is what people want for their neighborhood, okay. Don’t talk, don’t cooperate.  But then the complaints come out that it is someone else’s fault. The city, the police, the mayor or whoeve

AggiesAreWe
AggiesAreWe

Be careful posting about crime in Beaumont. The Beaumont Social Media Police, @BMTSoulja1 will be after you. He will follow up with stories about Sour Lake and Fannett. Places you have resided in

tvc184
tvc184

Perception? PA is a large city in physical size and the police are usually (but not always) busy and a lot more busy per officer. A quick look at the crime stats shows why you might not see of

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bullets13

bullets13

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Posted
15 hours ago, bullets13 said:

This is the hidden content, please

two on the west end in one day 

News updates state that a 17-year-old was killed while trying to steal a car.  It will be interesting to see what comes of this.  Depending on the circumstances it could be self-defense or murder charges. 

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Mr. Buddy Garrity

Mr. Buddy Garrity

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, bullets13 said:

News updates state that a 17-year-old was killed while trying to steal a car.  It will be interesting to see what comes of this.  Depending on the circumstances it could be self-defense or murder charges. 

Apparently the 17yr old was from Houston, I think he should've stayed put in Houston. 

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tvc184

tvc184

Posted
Posted

As we can imagine, the 17-year-old being shot in Beaumont has caused quite a stir on the Facebook forums. As the usual routine, there are complete misstatements of the law on both sides of the equation.

This kind of goes into the thread I started about laws but were there any justifications to use deadly force?

Of course, the problem is, we really don’t know what happened. For my two cents, it could be completely justified or it could be completely unjustified and murder.

I wish I had the facts of the case….

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BEARCPA

BEARCPA

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, tvc184 said:

As we can imagine, the 17-year-old being shot in Beaumont has caused quite a stir on the Facebook forums. As the usual routine, there are complete misstatements of the law on both sides of the equation.

This kind of goes into the thread I started about laws but were there any justifications to use deadly force?

Of course, the problem is, we really don’t know what happened. For my two cents, it could be completely justified or it could be completely unjustified and murder.

I wish I had the facts of the case….

Apologies if this is a dumb question, but does a vehicle owner have any kind of legal recourse if they fatally shoot a perp breaking into their car? Witnesses, fingerprints, etc.? Assuming in this hypothetical there is no physical confrontation where self-defense is easily proven.

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tvc184

tvc184

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, BEARCPA said:

Apologies if this is a dumb question, but does a vehicle owner have any kind of legal recourse if they fatally shoot a perp breaking into their car? Witnesses, fingerprints, etc.? Assuming in this hypothetical there is no physical confrontation where self-defense is easily proven.

There are so many what if questions. A single sentence can change a justified shooting into Murder or vice versa. 

 The law is specific in what crimes justify deadly force in order to recover property if the suspect is actually fleeing with the property.

Those crimes are Burglary (breaking into a residence or building), Robbery, Aggravated Robbery and Theft if the theft occurs in the nighttime. Those four crimes alone, justify deadly force to stop a person from getting away with property. It is not to be confused with other crimes where deadly force could be used to stop the crime from being committed such as Arson or Sexual Assault.

I am talking just running or driving away with the property. For example, if somebody steals your kid’s bicycle from the front yard in the daylight and there are no other facts (like he threatened to kill you), can you lawfully use deadly force to get the bicycle back? In my opinion and the way I read the law, absolutely not. That would likely be Murder. 

So while we are playing what if, what if you chase him and as you get close to him and he still has the bicycle, he pulls a pocket knife out and threatens to kill you? At that point the misdemeanor Theft during the daylight, just became an Aggravated Robbery. Aggravated Robbery is one of the four specific crimes that possibly justify the use of deadly force to get property back….. IF… IF, you reasonably believed that the property could not reasonably be recovered by other means  OR…. an attempt to get the property back would expose you to an unreasonable risk of serious injury or death.

That is the problem with making blanket statements but if you want to get on Facebook, get ready for the blanket statements.

So not legal advice but generally what the law appears to say to me about using deadly force only to protect property after doing it for 38 years…

IF a person is committing one of the four specifically mentioned crimes AND IF the person is escaping with property AND IF a person reasonably appears that he would get away without recovering the property OR IF attempting to recover, the property, would expose you to serious injury or death….

 Then it is likely justified. All of the AND and AND IF situations must be covered. They are not mutually exclusive.

1. 4 crimes and,   
2. escaping with property and,   
3. not reasonably likely to recover the property by other means or,   
    The recovery would expose you to serious injury or death.

Clear as mud? 

We could probably sit here and think up of 100 different situation.

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tvc184

tvc184

Posted
Posted
46 minutes ago, BEARCPA said:

Apologies if this is a dumb question, but does a vehicle owner have any kind of legal recourse if they fatally shoot a perp breaking into their car? Witnesses, fingerprints, etc.? Assuming in this hypothetical there is no physical confrontation where self-defense is easily proven.

And it certainly is not a dumb question. The Facebook lawyers have about 12 different answers though. 🤪

Yes… Witnesses, statements, a statement by the person accused, video or photographs, fingerprints or anything else will determine the outcome.

Just for a point of law and I would not want to be there, you do not have to prove self-defense. If you make a claim of self-defense and bring up any evidence allowed into court to support that claim, the state (DA) then has the burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was not self-defense.

It is called a defense to prosecution. 

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