SETX Officiating - A Victim of an Official Shortage or an Epidemic of Incompetence

[gogo173489]

7 minutes ago, Knox34 said:

I do agree. But I don’t think that’s a competency issue. I believe that’s a grown man tired of getting beat on and wasn’t going to change that call. Which shouldn’t happen but as far as the complaint about getting consistency it’s going to take time right now. I think that’s all anybody is trying to say. We lost a lot of good guys and keep losing more because of the treatment they receive. That’s my point 

I respect that outlook on things. I hate that we lost good ones because of the fans treatment of them, but is this the only reason? Could we get them back for improved pay, or maybe use these guys who quit to train others since they do not want to call games anymore? I agree fans can be obnoxious and rude. I get it. However, most coaches are very respectful and try to talk to the officials about calls they do not agree with. (Not all I know, but most.) Fans giving umpires, refs, etc. a hard time has been going on forever. To some degree, officials have to expect that when signing up to do the job. Threats and waiting for them after the game is what I would think made some of these guys quit. That kind of stuff should never happen, ever. 

[gogo173489]

2 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

Not a bad list.  But who pays for all this?  And who pays for the officials who're traveling to train the crews?  

It would certainly have to be the school's responsibility to pay for the trainee. Of course, I would think there would have to be some communication between TASO and the school beforehand. Also, the trainee would be at a reduced rate since they would not actually be officiating. I believe most schools understand there is a shortage, and while not all would participate I believe may would. Maybe a survey sent out to coaches to test the waters on that aspect of my list would be appropriate before adding training like that.

[bullets13]

3 minutes ago, gogo173489 said:

It would certainly have to be the school's responsibility to pay for the trainee. Of course, I would think there would have to be some communication between TASO and the school beforehand. Also, the trainee would be at a reduced rate since they would not actually be officiating. I believe most schools understand there is a shortage, and while not all would participate I believe may would. Maybe a survey sent out to coaches to test the waters on that aspect of my list would be appropriate before adding training like that.

I think you'd be surprised with how few schools are willing to shell out extra cash for stuff like this.  They're businesses that lose money, and they're always trying to find ways to save, not to increase expenses.  

[Knox34]

Man I know I was involved just this last year in youth football little league and right now little dribblers. I know that the lowest of the low. I get it. But we are lucky to get refs to come out. And they are asking for more money and shorter games because of the demand for them. So you have a situation now where they hold all the cards. At this point I believe there are people stepping up and grabbing extra cash because they are desperate. So the only way to solve this problem is to give these guys the respect they do deserve and make it be a fun lovable job again. 

[gogo173489]

Just now, bullets13 said:

I think you'd be surprised with how few schools are willing to shell out extra cash for stuff like this.  They're businesses that lose money, and they're always trying to find ways to save, not to increase expenses.  

Understandable, but the price of everything has drastically gone up. I would think it would be understandable the cost of these guys' time would increase as well. 

[gogo173489]

1 minute ago, Knox34 said:

Man I know I was involved just this last year in youth football little league and right now little dribblers. I know that the lowest of the low. I get it. But we are lucky to get refs to come out. And they are asking for more money and shorter games because of the demand for them. So you have a situation now where they hold all the cards. At this point I believe there are people stepping up and grabbing extra cash because they are desperate. So the only way to solve this problem is to give these guys the respect they do deserve and make it be a fun lovable job again. 

Agreed. Maybe even some transparency from the local chapter that the only officials they have for tonight for (insert game here) are inexperienced and will do the best they can. I think coaches would certainly go easier on them. There's not a lot you can do about fans yelling and screaming. As long as it's not some kind of vulgarities or name calling it is to be expected and is just part of the job unfortunately. 

[watup]

Varsity Game= $75.00

Mileage is $20 less thank 30 miles or $35 over $35 miles.

All fees are set by the UIL and go off center point for the Chapter.

 

I'm not just saying come out and officiate, my point is yes there are inexperienced officials working varsity games because everybody wants 3 person crews.  We are constantly recruiting, due to officials retiring, quitting and no big pool of new officials per say, the games are covered with less experience officials.  SETX Chapter had that game your talking about, gogo1734, and the officials never called a timeout because a foul was called first.  A little push and talking occurred and that's when the two players left the bench area.  I talked to the crew and that's why a technical was issued.  It's also clearly on video and you can see an assistant coach holding back the two that left the bench.  Go look at the game film from somebody and you will see it.

[watup]

3 hours ago, gogo173489 said:

The 8-10 games I've seen that were officiated by chapters outside of setx were called light years better than any game I have seen in setx this season. 

I'm recruiting you not throwing you under the bus.

[Knox34]

If I’m not mistaken. The varsity coaches do approve the officials well before the game. They know who and what they are getting and can turn down any official they don’t want. And as far as the experience surely they are required more than a year of before hitting varsity level.  I’ll let one of these officials weigh in on that though 

[gogo173489]

4 minutes ago, watup said:

Varsity Game= $75.00

Mileage is $20 less thank 30 miles or $35 over $35 miles.

All fees are set by the UIL and go off center point for the Chapter.

 

I'm not just saying come out and officiate, my point is yes there are inexperienced officials working varsity games because everybody wants 3 person crews.  We are constantly recruiting, due to officials retiring, quitting and no big pool of new officials per say, the games are covered with less experience officials.  SETX Chapter had that game your talking about, gogo1734, and the officials never called a timeout because a foul was called first.  A little push and talking occurred and that's when the two players left the bench area.  I talked to the crew and that's why a technical was issued.  It's also clearly on video and you can see an assistant coach holding back the two that left the bench.  Go look at the game film from somebody and you will see it.

I was at that game, and I'll tell you there was zero intent of those two players that came off the bench to fight or anything else. They came off with their coach, who was screaming for a time out. (Not sure if your video has sound or not, a lot do not) One official did grant a time out, and that was the argument that occurred afterwards. I was sitting behind the players right around mid-court. I believe the assistant coach went to hold the players back because all of that happened extremely fast. Also, to be fair, players left the bench from both teams, not just one. None that I saw had any intentions of going on the court to fight. The technical foul was only called against one team. 

[gogo173489]

4 minutes ago, Knox34 said:

If I’m not mistaken. The varsity coaches do approve the officials well before the game. They know who and what they are getting and can turn down any official they don’t want. And as far as the experience surely they are required more than a year of before hitting varsity level.  I’ll let one of these officials weigh in on that though 

I did not know that. 

[gogo173489]

10 minutes ago, watup said:

Varsity Game= $75.00

Mileage is $20 less thank 30 miles or $35 over $35 miles.

All fees are set by the UIL and go off center point for the Chapter.

 

I'm not just saying come out and officiate, my point is yes there are inexperienced officials working varsity games because everybody wants 3 person crews.  We are constantly recruiting, due to officials retiring, quitting and no big pool of new officials per say, the games are covered with less experience officials.  SETX Chapter had that game your talking about, gogo1734, and the officials never called a timeout because a foul was called first.  A little push and talking occurred and that's when the two players left the bench area.  I talked to the crew and that's why a technical was issued.  It's also clearly on video and you can see an assistant coach holding back the two that left the bench.  Go look at the game film from somebody and you will see it.

This isn't terrible money.. Say there's a 45 minute drive and a 1.5-2 hour game, it's around $20-$25 an hour depending on the distance driven. Could it be more? Sure, but that's not awful by any stretch.

[CardinalBacker]

It's a simple cause/effect problem.... There's a shortage of officials, so the quality of the officiating has gone down.  

There are a multitude of reasons, but the main thing is the abuse that officials have to endure these days.  You can recognize that fact, or ignore it and watch as the sport(s) suffer.  Whether "Dad" wants to believe it or not, the refs are the most important people at the game.  Coach has a heart attack?  Assistant steps up.  A few kids go down?  Second string comes in.  Cheerleaders all get knocked up?  Change the school mascot to the rabbits and play on.  Lock the entire audience out of the gym?  Nothing but squeaky shoes.  Refs don't show up?  That's a wrap.  

The blatant disrespect that the OP is tossing in all of his postings is the reason that people don't want to officiate... for any amount of money.  

It's simple.... fan/player/coach behavior is the number one reason for the officiating shortage we see today.  Recognize it or don't.... but that's the problem and "they just need to call better games and then we'd leave them alone" is a really bad plan, Daddy.  

[gogo173489]

20 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

It's a simple cause/effect problem.... There's a shortage of officials, so the quality of the officiating has gone down.  

There are a multitude of reasons, but the main thing is the abuse that officials have to endure these days.  You can recognize that fact, or ignore it and watch as the sport(s) suffer.  Whether "Dad" wants to believe it or not, the refs are the most important people at the game.  Coach has a heart attack?  Assistant steps up.  A few kids go down?  Second string comes in.  Cheerleaders all get knocked up?  Change the school mascot to the rabbits and play on.  Lock the entire audience out of the gym?  Nothing but squeaky shoes.  Refs don't show up?  That's a wrap.  

The blatant disrespect that the OP is tossing in all of his postings is the reason that people don't want to officiate... for any amount of money.  

It's simple.... fan/player/coach behavior is the number one reason for the officiating shortage we see today.  Recognize it or don't.... but that's the problem and "they just need to call better games and then we'd leave them alone" is a really bad plan, Daddy.  

Never said anything like what you're accusing me of. I don't have a son playing currently so your moronic "daddy" comment doesn't apply. What I did say is the inconsistency and knowledge of the rules from officials is an issue. Whether or not you like the way I said it doesn't matter. Also, I've seen very few coach or player incidents this season or in recent seasons. Sure they happen, but it certainly isn't commonplace. The fan interaction is another story. Fans get out of hand often and say things and do things they shouldn't.  However, fans getting on to officials has been part of the game forever, and that isn't going to change. So long as what is said isn't inappropriate it's something that should be expected. It's not something that just started happening recently. 

[CardinalBacker]

1 hour ago, gogo173489 said:

Never said anything like what you're accusing me of. I don't have a son playing currently so your moronic "daddy" comment doesn't apply. What I did say is the inconsistency and knowledge of the rules from officials is an issue. Whether or not you like the way I said it doesn't matter. Also, I've seen very few coach or player incidents this season or in recent seasons. Sure they happen, but it certainly isn't commonplace. The fan interaction is another story. Fans get out of hand often and say things and do things they shouldn't.  However, fans getting on to officials has been part of the game forever, and that isn't going to change. So long as what is said isn't inappropriate it's something that should be expected. It's not something that just started happening recently. 

You can go to any HS Varsity football game and you'll hear people howling at the refs on practically any play that has a bad outcome for the team in whose bleachers you're sitting.  As you can only imagine, the other side howls every time that something doesn't go like it "should" for their team.  The refs are getting an earful from one side or the other on practically every play.  I've seen the crew send coaches up into our stands to tell parents to tone it down or they were going to be ejected for yelling over and over and over.  I've seen our kids get bad calls (or no calls) in baseball games and I'm confident that it has a whole lot to do with "Dads" like yourself who know it all... and don't mind giving the ref and earful.... because it's their job, right?

 

Every time someone has suggested that you, sir, should give reffing a try... you crawfish like the do-nothing, know-it-all that I'm sure that you are.  It's all fun and games to scream at a ref, but knowing deep down in your heart you don't have the stones to do that job.... All you can do is complain.  

[gogo1734]

14 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

You can go to any HS Varsity football game and you'll hear people howling at the refs on practically any play that has a bad outcome for the team in whose bleachers you're sitting.  As you can only imagine, the other side howls every time that something doesn't go like it "should" for their team.  The refs are getting an earful from one side or the other on practically every play.  I've seen the crew send coaches up into our stands to tell parents to tone it down or they were going to be ejected for yelling over and over and over.  I've seen our kids get bad calls (or no calls) in baseball games and I'm confident that it has a whole lot to do with "Dads" like yourself who know it all... and don't mind giving the ref and earful.... because it's their job, right?

 

Every time someone has suggested that you, sir, should give reffing a try... you crawfish like the do-nothing, know-it-all that I'm sure that you are.  It's all fun and games to scream at a ref, but knowing deep down in your heart you don't have the stones to do that job.... All you can do is complain.  

As I’ve said in previous posts, which you clearly didn’t read, I’ve officiated or umpired many games voluntarily at the youth level and they’re just as bad on most days. I do it when I have time to. Also, I don’t currently have a son playing in HS right now which I also mentioned in reference to your “dad” comment. 

[TxHoops]

On 1/17/2023 at 11:01 AM, gogo173489 said:

The 8-10 games I've seen that were officiated by chapters outside of setx were called light years better than any game I have seen in setx this season. 

That’s my issue.  Why is it so bad in our area?  Even the ones that are supposed to be the best veteran officials are mediocre at best.  I don’t expect them to be college officials that I am used to seeing.  But I don’t see why they are so much worse than almost every other HS region I’ve seen.  I understand Houston has more people to pull from but they also have more games to cover.  And I don’t expect them to be perfect.  I doubt there has ever been a perfectly called game in the history of basketball.  But at least be competent and know the rules.  

[TxHoops]

On 1/17/2023 at 4:57 PM, CardinalBacker said:

You can go to any HS Varsity football game and you'll hear people howling at the refs on practically any play that has a bad outcome for the team in whose bleachers you're sitting.  As you can only imagine, the other side howls every time that something doesn't go like it "should" for their team.  The refs are getting an earful from one side or the other on practically every play.  I've seen the crew send coaches up into our stands to tell parents to tone it down or they were going to be ejected for yelling over and over and over.  I've seen our kids get bad calls (or no calls) in baseball games and I'm confident that it has a whole lot to do with "Dads" like yourself who know it all... and don't mind giving the ref and earful.... because it's their job, right?

 

Every time someone has suggested that you, sir, should give reffing a try... you crawfish like the do-nothing, know-it-all that I'm sure that you are.  It's all fun and games to scream at a ref, but knowing deep down in your heart you don't have the stones to do that job.... All you can do is complain.  

That goes from basketball too and it annoys the heck out of me.  Some schools are the worst.  
 

i will say that for a while (and I don’t know if he still does), a particular Hs Coach was using an out of area chapter and those honestly were some of the best officiated games I’ve seen.  However, they were also the most annoying because people were screaming for fouls (in the opponent’s fans’ section of which I was a part) on every single possession.  In reality they were just witnessing great defense and the officials weren’t calling every touch (as they shouldn’t).  While I do believe a great number of the officials in our area are admittedly subpar, many of the fans are worse to the point it makes it cringy to sit and watch a game. 

[Tigers94]

Touchy fouls always annoy me. I hate having to listen to the fans on the other side of the gym screaming that Silsbee is playing dirty, then sarcastically cheer when they finally get a call.

 

[CardinalBacker]

1 hour ago, TxHoops said:

That goes from basketball too and it annoys the heck out of me.  Some schools are the worst.  
 

i will say that for a while (and I don’t know if he still does), a particular Hs Coach was using an out of area chapter and those honestly were some of the best officiated games I’ve seen.  However, they were also the most annoying because people were screaming for fouls (in the opponent’s fans’ section of which I was a part) on every single possession.  In reality they were just witnessing great defense and the officials weren’t calling every touch (as they shouldn’t).  While I do believe a great number of the officials in our area are admittedly subpar, many of the fans are worse to the point it makes it cringy to sit and watch a game. 

Bc fans have earned a reputation for being over-the-top, especially in baseball. I think it was ‘18 when our baseball got knocked out of the playoffs on a “bad call.” A solid pitch that would have been a called strike to end the game was called a ball… the opponents then scored to win on the next pitch. 
 

The only problem is that our fans had been in the umpire’s ear BRUTALLY all night long. Yeah, you might have made your point, but all you did was guarantee that the ref wasn’t going to give us the benefit of the doubt on a close one. The verbal assault all game long was terrible, and I’m confident it affected the ump’s performance, and not in a positive way. 

[TxHoops]

35 minutes ago, Tigers94 said:

Touchy fouls always annoy me. I hate having to listen to the fans on the other side of the gym screaming that Silsbee is playing dirty, then sarcastically cheer when they finally get a call.

 

Same and most Silsbee games I’ve been to, I’ve rooted for the other team (because it was one of my kids or another Orange County team they were playing).  “Get him off of him!” is the one I hear over and over that is like nails on a chalkboard for me. “Umm, he’s playing good defense ma’am” (or sir!).  
 

However, I’ve always rooted for Silsbee when I’ve seen them play in Houston, or out of this area.  The irony is that on those occasions, it seemed far less fouls were called on Silsbee yet I heard far less whining from the fans of Silsbee’s opponents.

[gogo173489]

12 hours ago, TxHoops said:

That’s my issue.  Why is it so bad in our area?  Even the ones that are supposed to be the best veteran officials are mediocre at best.  I don’t expect them to be college officials that I am used to seeing.  But I don’t see why they are so much worse than almost every other HS region I’ve seen.  I understand Houston has more people to pull from but they also have more games to cover.  And I don’t expect them to be perfect.  I doubt there has ever been a perfectly called game in the history of basketball.  But at least be competent and know the rules.  

I was asked by another person on another thread after I made a comment on how great the Buna/Anahuac game was the other night, "How was the officiating in that game?" I told him it was really great, and thinking back on it now, that particular game may have been the best officiated game I've seen so far this season. So, I asked where the officials were from because I had not seen them before Tuesday night. These particular guys were from near College Station. 

[gogo1734]

Well, back to the Beaumont chapter tonight and right back to really, really bad officiating. Same bad guys over and over. It’s not that they just aren’t good, it that they don’t want to be good. 

[gogo1734]

35 minutes ago, gogo1734 said:

Well, back to the Beaumont chapter tonight and right back to really, really bad officiating. Same bad guys over and over. It’s not that they just aren’t good, it that they don’t want to be good. 

I shouldn’t say the entire chapter. That’s wrong of me. There are 5-6 of those guys that can flat out ruin a basketball game. It’s not all of them. My apologies for that comment. 

[watup]

3 hours ago, gogo1734 said:

I shouldn’t say the entire chapter. That’s wrong of me. There are 5-6 of those guys that can flat out ruin a basketball game. It’s not all of them. My apologies for that comment. 

If you’re referring to LCM @ Silsbee that is Region 5 Chapter.  LCM uses SETX Chapter just FYI.