1989NDN

PN-G's Shea Adams says...the quotes above did not age well.
Go Indians.

Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, and I hear what you are saying.  Your opinion is valid and just as good, if not better than mine.  I'm not arguing or being a jackass.  Just pointing out that no one, no one on this earth, loves PN-GISD more than Lance Billeaud.  I know him well.  He is a friend.  He is all-in, 100% invested in PN-G.  He does not care about race, ethnicity, gender, how much money you make, what you drive, where you live, or what sport or activity you participate in at PN-G.  If you're a PN-G Indian, Lance Billeaud cares about you.  If PN-G has its doors open, Lance is there.  He works many hours behind the scenes to secure sponsors for the PN-G radio broadcasts.  He's the fire chief in Groves.  He loves Groves and its neighboring cities, Port Arthur, Port Neches, and Nederland.  If Lance Billeaud is your friend, you have the best friend there is.  I like Dave Hofferth on play-by-play.  Who wouldn't want Dave Hofferth calling your team's game?  Not everyone is Dave Hofferth.  I'm just glad that PN-G has a radio broadcast and three people willing to donate their time to call the game.  I know...going off script drives some people crazy.  I get it, but Lance is our guy and I appreciate what he, Francis, and Rachel do for the PN-G kids.  Francis is slowly converting to purple and white...he's still has some ground to cover to completely forget his Nederland loyalties.  I appreciate that he cares enough about PN-G kids to donate his time and call the game.  Just my 0.02 cents.

Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, and I hear what you are saying.  Your opinion is valid and just as good, if not better than mine.  I'm not arguing or being a jackass.  Just pointing out that no one, no one on this earth, loves PN-GISD more than Lance Billeaud.  I know him well.  He is a friend.  He is all-in, 100% invested in PN-G.  He does not care about race, ethnicity, gender, how much money you make, what you drive, where you live, or what sport or activity you participate in at PN-G.  If you're a PN-G Indian, Lance Billeaud cares about you.  If PN-G has its doors open, Lance is there.  He works many hours behind the scenes to secure sponsors for the PN-G radio broadcasts.  He's the fire chief in Groves.  He loves Groves and its neighboring cities, Port Arthur, Port Neches, and Nederland.  If Lance Billeaud is your friend, you have the best friend there is.  I like Dave Hofferth on play-by-play.  Who wouldn't want Dave Hofferth calling your team's game?  Not everyone is Dave Hofferth.  I'm just glad that PN-G has a radio broadcast and three people willing to donate their time to call the game.  I know...going off script drives some people crazy.  I get it, but Lance is our guy and I appreciate what he, Francis, and Rachel do for the PN-G kids.  Francis is slowly converting to purple and white...he's still has some ground to cover to completely forget his Nederland loyalties.  I appreciate that he cares enough about PN-G kids to donate his time and call the game.  Just my 0.02 cents.

FBM - great size and athleticism.  Who wouldn't want FBM's front seven on defense?  Tall DEs, some push at the DT level, and fast aggressive LBs.  Huge OL.
Crosby - great effort, took advantage of what was given, and coaches putting young inexperienced kids in the right spots to have a chance to make something good happen.  That comes from having a winning program.  Kids believe the coaches will give them a shot to make something happen.  Tough, gritty QB #10, and a defense that swarms the ball.  Crosby had much to do with FBM having an off night.

Why?  Is nederland worried more kids will quit and they won't have enough numbers to field a team by the end of the week?

Why?  Is nederland worried more kids will quit and they won't have enough numbers to field a team by the end of the week?

Why?  Is nederland worried more kids will quit and they won't have enough numbers to field a team by the end of the week?

Good find, LumRaiderFan.  J.E. McQueen, aka LQ Jones, graduated from PN-G in 1944.  It was just Port Neches High School in 1944.  He was voted most popular boy and a member of the National Honor Society.  Born in Beaumont, educated in Port Neches and at the University of Texas, and found stardom in Hollywood.  A life well lived.  I remember him from Gunsmoke, Bonanza, and Charlie's Angels.  RIP, Mr. Jones (McQueen).

Back to 1989NDN’s excellent question on the use of deadly force. Is it justified and if so, why? He is more opinion.  This is long and tapped (not typed) out on an iPhone so please don’t be too harsh on tpyos or words it don’t seem to fit.  
 
 
In Texas self defense is in Chapter 9 of them Penal Code. The actual title of the chapter is Justification Excluding Criminal Responsibility. That is exactly what self-defense is. It is an act that technically is a crime but the situation makes it lawful or a person is not criminally responsible.
Immediately after the first section in chapter 9 which is definitions, we go to this very important part:
“Sec. 9.02. JUSTIFICATION AS A DEFENSE. It is a defense to prosecution that the conduct in question is justified under this chapter”.
So right out of the box we see that anything in Chapter 9 is considered a “defense to prosecution”. 
Okay but what the heck does “defense to prosecution” mean? 
There are defenses written into law that can be basically exemptions from prosecution. They are “exceptions” which mean that the law simply does not apply to that situation plus defenses and affirmative defenses. We need to look at a “defense to prosecution” since that appliance to this entire chapter.
In Chapter 2 it says this about a defense to prosecution:
“(b) The prosecuting attorney is not required to negate the existence of a defense in the accusation charging commission of the offense. (c) The issue of the existence of a defense is not submitted to the jury unless evidence is admitted supporting the defense. (d) If the issue of the existence of a defense is submitted to the jury, the court shall charge that a reasonable doubt on the issue requires that the defendant be acquitted”. 
We see in (b) that the DA is not even required to address a defense. In other words he does not have to bring up that there might be a defense to prosecution. It is up to the defendant to bring up the defense and evidence to support the defense.  In (c) there has to be some evidence of the defense in order for the jury to hear it and deliberated it. A person can’t just say, this law doesn’t apply to me because I have a defense. The defendant has to produce some evidence (and testimony is evidence) to support the claim. If evidence is brought up and submitted to the jury, we go to what I think is the most important part. Under (d) it shows that any reasonable doubt for the defense and it “requires that the defendant be acquitted”. So if a person brings up a defense to prosecution as far as self-defense, he does not have to prove self-defense.  The DA is required to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that lawful self-defense did not exist. So if you shoot someone and get prosecuted but you have a witness(es) and/or some other evidence showing there was a valid reason to shoot the person, you do not have to prove that is true. The DA has to prove it is not true beyond a reasonable doubt. There used to be a saying when I was a kid playing baseball, a tie goes to the runner. The ball has to beat the runner to the bag for there to be an out. In this case the tie goes to the defendant. Let’s say the DA has some evidence that it was not self-defense but the defendant has also brought up good evidence showing that it was self-defense. If the DA can’t clearly win the case beyond a reasonable doubt that no reasonable self-defense existed, the law says it requires the defendant be acquitted.
Now what about deadly force?
In Chapter 9, Section 9.32 deadly force is justified;
“(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:”. 
The “actor” has the same meaning as suspect or the person accused. 
So whose reasonable opinion matters? As we can see in the law it is the (actor) person using the deadly force in claimed self defense. The law here is basically saying that you have to look at it through the eyes of the person using the force. Was it reasonable from the viewpoint of the person using the deadly force? What would a reasonable person believe faced with the same situation?
You obviously can’t use deadly force for just any reason. There are two reasons listed. The first and only one we are concerned with in this discussion is: 
“(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force;”. 
So this is clear, to stop the other person from using deadly force against you. But what is deadly force? In Section 9.01(3) it says:
“.(3) "Deadly force" means force that is intended or known by the actor to cause, or in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing, death or serious bodily injury.” 
So deadly force is force that is capable of causing death OR… OR… OR… only Serious Bodily Injury. What is SBI?
For that we have to go back to Chapter 1 under definitions. 
In 1.07 it says:
“(46) "Serious bodily injury" means bodily injury that creates a substantial risk of death or that causes death, serious permanent disfigurement, or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ.”
Most people assume deadly force means death or could cause death but it is just as much any serious permanent disfigurement or the protracted (extended) loss of any bodily member or organ. So if someone is trying to break the bones in your hand, could a jury reasonably believe that your arm might be in a cast for maybe six weeks? Would that be the protracted loss of a bodily member? I would say losing most of the use of an arm for a month and a half fits that definition but it is up to a jury based on the evidence given at the trial . Something like knocking someone’s eye out would obviously be the loss of a bodily organ. If someone hits you in the face so severely that your face swole up for about a month and you could not see out of one of your eyes that entire time, would that be the protracted loss of an organ? These are questions that injury must answer because it is their decision. 
After a trial a judge reads the “charge” and gives definitions such as I have and a lot more. It is up to a jury to apply those definitions and laws to the case. 
The important part of this is, you can use deadly force for protection even if someone is not trying to only kill you. If you have the reasonable belief that someone is trying to commit serious bodily injury against you, deadly force is possible as self defense. You don’t have to allow somebody to break your arm or your leg just because that does not usually cause death. Those injuries are deadly force and the law allows deadly force to defend against deadly force. 
So let’s put all of this together using the law.
You’re justified in using deadly force against another if you reasonably believe the person is trying to use deadly force against you. Remember that deadly force does not necessarily have to cause death but could be a reasonable belief that it might cause serious bodily injury.
An example is one time we were fighting a guy probably 25 years ago. The suspect bit an officer’s thumb and would not let go and basically seemed like he was trying to bite it off. The officer used his flashlight to hit the guy in the head which in itself can be considered deadly force. So there was an internal investigation on whether the officer had the justification to use deadly force against the suspect. If I remember correctly a sergeant was reading the report and called the force into question. The officer made a mistake….. by not documenting what happened. He came to me for advice wondering why he was being investigated. To him it seemed easily justified. I said exactly what happened, he. did not document why hec used force. I asked the officer, what did you think when the guy was biting down with all of his force on your thumb. He told me he thought that he was going lose his thumb or at least break it. Okay….. is biting your thumb off or breaking it considered serious bodily injury? Absolutely. The officer’s report (and he was a rookie of less than a year) said the guy bit my thumb so I hit him in the head. Okay, biting a person does not justify deadly force. Trying to bite your thumb off or break it does. He did a sworn statement explaining what happened and he was cleared, as he should have been. Remember that he does not have to prove that the guy might have broken his thumb. He had to have a reasonable belief from his viewpoint. 
So now we come this case where two officers who are chasing a stolen car who intentionally or unintentionally rammed a police car. The suspect is doing everything he can to escape from being charged with a felony. He then steps out of the car with gun in hand.
Is there a reasonable belief at that point that the man in a stolen car who got out with a gun was attempting or going to attempt to use deadly force against the officers?
If a reasonable person in the officers’ situation would say yes, then deadly force is lawful in my opinion. Also remember again that the officers or anyone else for that matter, does not have to prove that the other person was actually going to use deadly force. For the district attorney to prosecute the case successfully against the officers it would have to proven beyond a reasonable doubt that after a high-speed chase (a felony) in a stolen car (a felony), the guy jumping out of the car with a gun in hand was not a reasonable threat to the officers.
If those are the facts of the case, it is my opinion that this is fairly clear cut. I believe if anyone of us was in that chase and given a duty to apprehend the suspect in the stolen car, when he rammed a police car and then jumped out with a gun, would any of you think you’re in danger at that point? Would you be willing to have a discussion with the guy to see what his intent was?
Also note, you don’t see anywhere in the law where it says you were in fear of your life. 

Let’s play devils’s advocate or my favorite game, “what if”.
Let’s forget the felony car chase, let’s forget the ramming of a police car….
An officer on patrol sees a very minor violation like maybe a pedestrian walking on the edge of the roadway when there’s a sidewalk. The officer  gets out of his car and tells the guy, can you come over here for a minute. The guy starts walking toward the officer without saying anything and pulls out a knife as he continues to approach the officer or he looks at the officer and reaches in his pocket and pulls out a pistol.
In either situation, the officer might be dead within the next two seconds. Should officer before he responds, ask the guy if he really intends to do anything?
In a similar “what if”, it is 2 AM and someone is kicking on your front door and you’re afraid the door is about to be broken and allow entry. A guy is screaming let me in. In self defense you fire through the door as the door is almost but not quite open. The guy is now dead. Clearly this is a case of self defense under Texas law.
BUT…… what if?
You find out after he is dead that it is  your drunk neighbor who came home late, had the wrong house and simply thinks his wife locked him out of the house?
Should you now go to jail for murder?

Not a graduate of Lamar, but I am from Port Arthur/Groves (PN-G alumnus).  I know several LU alums that have outstanding jobs/careers.  The engineering and nursing programs at LU are strong, well thought of, and professionals across Texas and Louisiana know about Lamar and those programs.  Hang in there with LU men's basketball.  Coach Brooks will find the right kids and turn the corner with the program.  I believe in Coach Brooks.  You will not find a better all-around human being.  He's a teacher and role model.  He does not cheat or cut-corners.  He will teach your kids to be solid young men.  No, I'm not related to him and I am not his agent.  Met him at UH and I have been a fan ever since.  

Not a graduate of Lamar, but I am from Port Arthur/Groves (PN-G alumnus).  I know several LU alums that have outstanding jobs/careers.  The engineering and nursing programs at LU are strong, well thought of, and professionals across Texas and Louisiana know about Lamar and those programs.  Hang in there with LU men's basketball.  Coach Brooks will find the right kids and turn the corner with the program.  I believe in Coach Brooks.  You will not find a better all-around human being.  He's a teacher and role model.  He does not cheat or cut-corners.  He will teach your kids to be solid young men.  No, I'm not related to him and I am not his agent.  Met him at UH and I have been a fan ever since.  

Not a graduate of Lamar, but I am from Port Arthur/Groves (PN-G alumnus).  I know several LU alums that have outstanding jobs/careers.  The engineering and nursing programs at LU are strong, well thought of, and professionals across Texas and Louisiana know about Lamar and those programs.  Hang in there with LU men's basketball.  Coach Brooks will find the right kids and turn the corner with the program.  I believe in Coach Brooks.  You will not find a better all-around human being.  He's a teacher and role model.  He does not cheat or cut-corners.  He will teach your kids to be solid young men.  No, I'm not related to him and I am not his agent.  Met him at UH and I have been a fan ever since.  

That is just simply not true. I had dozens of classmates in the accounting program land really good jobs all across the state after graduation, and I know companies from all across the world come to Lamar to recruit students in the engineering program. 

Anthony Harris is my new favorite NFL player.  I am purchasing his jersey.  He is a man's man.  Role model and the true meaning of an all-star.  He should be the face of the Eagles and NFL.  Props to Anthony Harris.  Peace.

Proud PN-G alumnus...let's rally...support the new hire and give him an opportunity to be successful.  I'm disappointed that PN-GISD parted ways with Coach Faircloth.  What's done is done.  Time to support the new leader of the Tribe, Coach Joseph.  Let's not nit-pik him to death before he puts on a purple shirt.  Give him shot.  No "For Sale" signs in his yard when he makes a wrong call.  Make him feel welcomed to our Tribe.  That's part of our commitment to Honor, Pride, and Tradition.  We carry those core values with us after Pre-K through 12th grade.  Welcome Coach Joseph.  Honor, Pride, and Tradition.  Go Indians.  Peace.
 
Yes, I know the fans/alums of Nederland, PAISD, and others laugh at the culture of PN-G.  I get it.  But, we are who we are.  Peace.
 

Proud PN-G alumnus...let's rally...support the new hire and give him an opportunity to be successful.  I'm disappointed that PN-GISD parted ways with Coach Faircloth.  What's done is done.  Time to support the new leader of the Tribe, Coach Joseph.  Let's not nit-pik him to death before he puts on a purple shirt.  Give him shot.  No "For Sale" signs in his yard when he makes a wrong call.  Make him feel welcomed to our Tribe.  That's part of our commitment to Honor, Pride, and Tradition.  We carry those core values with us after Pre-K through 12th grade.  Welcome Coach Joseph.  Honor, Pride, and Tradition.  Go Indians.  Peace.
 
Yes, I know the fans/alums of Nederland, PAISD, and others laugh at the culture of PN-G.  I get it.  But, we are who we are.  Peace.
 

Proud PN-G alumnus...let's rally...support the new hire and give him an opportunity to be successful.  I'm disappointed that PN-GISD parted ways with Coach Faircloth.  What's done is done.  Time to support the new leader of the Tribe, Coach Joseph.  Let's not nit-pik him to death before he puts on a purple shirt.  Give him shot.  No "For Sale" signs in his yard when he makes a wrong call.  Make him feel welcomed to our Tribe.  That's part of our commitment to Honor, Pride, and Tradition.  We carry those core values with us after Pre-K through 12th grade.  Welcome Coach Joseph.  Honor, Pride, and Tradition.  Go Indians.  Peace.
 
Yes, I know the fans/alums of Nederland, PAISD, and others laugh at the culture of PN-G.  I get it.  But, we are who we are.  Peace.
 

Proud PN-G alumnus...let's rally...support the new hire and give him an opportunity to be successful.  I'm disappointed that PN-GISD parted ways with Coach Faircloth.  What's done is done.  Time to support the new leader of the Tribe, Coach Joseph.  Let's not nit-pik him to death before he puts on a purple shirt.  Give him shot.  No "For Sale" signs in his yard when he makes a wrong call.  Make him feel welcomed to our Tribe.  That's part of our commitment to Honor, Pride, and Tradition.  We carry those core values with us after Pre-K through 12th grade.  Welcome Coach Joseph.  Honor, Pride, and Tradition.  Go Indians.  Peace.
 
Yes, I know the fans/alums of Nederland, PAISD, and others laugh at the culture of PN-G.  I get it.  But, we are who we are.  Peace.
 

The recruiting coordinator at Aledo is second to none.  So is the strength and conditioning/nutrition coach.  It is amazing that every year Aledo has an outstanding RB and a few OL kids standing 6'4" or 6'5" and weighing 275+ lbs.  It must be something in the water out there in SW Fort Worth, plus the population growth?  Didn't the last QB move in from California?  Was that last year or the year before?  COVID move in because California paused sports?

Dodge was 1-2 vs. PN-G.
1978 SOPH: 34-13 Indians at PAISD Memorial Stadium
1979 JR: 26-14 Indians at The Reservation
1980: SR: 14-13 Jackets at The Reservation
Statistically, Dodge did not have good games vs. PN-G.  He would have been 0-3 but for his defense bailing him out and stopping the Indians' 2-point try.  The 1980 Jacket offense gets the hype because of Dodge, Duhon, and Bruce Miller, but the Jacket defense was no slouch.  Don Holloway at LB.  DLs Terrell, Wallace, Hancock, Kip Cooper, and I bet I am forgetting some.  Good times...good memories.

Dodge was 1-2 vs. PN-G.
1978 SOPH: 34-13 Indians at PAISD Memorial Stadium
1979 JR: 26-14 Indians at The Reservation
1980: SR: 14-13 Jackets at The Reservation
Statistically, Dodge did not have good games vs. PN-G.  He would have been 0-3 but for his defense bailing him out and stopping the Indians' 2-point try.  The 1980 Jacket offense gets the hype because of Dodge, Duhon, and Bruce Miller, but the Jacket defense was no slouch.  Don Holloway at LB.  DLs Terrell, Wallace, Hancock, Kip Cooper, and I bet I am forgetting some.  Good times...good memories.

I believe David Satcher is now the DC at Splendora.  In 2021, Splendora went 4-6 overall and 0-5 in district.  The defense gave up 291 points over 10 games.  Not exactly the 1985 Chicago Bears.  I'd tap the brakes on the Satcher to PN-G discussion.  But, I enjoy reading the comments in this thread, so carry on.  Peace.
P.S.  If you don't like the 2021 season, no worries.  Splendora went 4-7 overall and 2-3 in district while giving up 318 points in 11 games.

I believe David Satcher is now the DC at Splendora.  In 2021, Splendora went 4-6 overall and 0-5 in district.  The defense gave up 291 points over 10 games.  Not exactly the 1985 Chicago Bears.  I'd tap the brakes on the Satcher to PN-G discussion.  But, I enjoy reading the comments in this thread, so carry on.  Peace.
P.S.  If you don't like the 2021 season, no worries.  Splendora went 4-7 overall and 2-3 in district while giving up 318 points in 11 games.

Reagan, I appreciate your respect of Coach Ethridge.  You will not find a bigger fan of Coach Ethridge than me.  That said, let's not overlook the facts that Coach Ethridge surrounded himself with talented assistant coaches, e.g., Butch Troy, Paul Carswell, Ken Clearman, Greg Davis, Bruce Bush, Terry Cobb, Jerry Hooper, and several others, and Coach Ethridge had some talent on the 1974-1977 teams.  He had D-1 talent.  In the seventies, Port Neches and Groves were growing.  Refineries employed thousands, not hundreds, but thousands.  Families moved to Port Neches and Groves.  Some of those families had talented kids.  There are not too many kids at PN-G today like Richy Ethridge (Texas Tech), Randy Ethridge, Ted Brack (TCU), Kyle Aguillard (Tennessee), Matt Burnett (Lamar), Robert DeRutte (LSU), Justin Eicher (Lamar), James Shipley, Von Robinson, and several others.  LBs like Ted Brack, 6'2" or 6'3" and 215 lbs. that could run from sideline to sideline and violently end plays do not come through PN-G all that often.  Neither do RBs like Justin Eicher...6'2" 200 - 210 lbs. He could run over your and away from you.  Those teams from the seventies are long gone.  Times have changed.  Enrollments and districts have changed.  SETX has changed.  The game of football has changed.  Coach Ethridge is the greatest chief to ever lead our Tribe.  He's on the Mount Rushmore of PN-G greats, but he had talent on the sidelines and in the huddle when he made those championship runs.  His son, Richy, was a MLB playing QB.  Tough and savvy.  He could read defenses at the line of scrimmage and get PN-G out of bad plays and into good plays because he was the coach's son.  That doesn't happen all that often where you combine great coaching with great athletes, and your son directs the team and knows how to run your system.  Just my 0.02 cents.  RIP Coach Ethridge.  I get it, Reagan, you have high standards.  But, build in some leeway.  Great coaches come in different packages.  Peace.