Sulphur Springs…/Faircloth hired

[Reagan]

On 1/22/2022 at 5:21 PM, CoogsWompWomp said:

Toxic situation isn’t going to get big names. It’s going to get people who will play nice. Same way at other places. 

Scratching my head on the "toxic" situation you mentioned.  The man has been their for 12 years.  And before that, the coach was there for many years.  Maybe, just maybe, this coach finally realized he could not bring PNG to the level they required and it was time to go!

[TradenupBH]

I’ll never forget how it started with Faircloth. Playing Gregory -Portland in the Alamodome. We traveled to SA with a big group and went to the game. 4th Q, 4th and a foot. Faircloth decides to keep QB in shotgun and attempts to run a QB draw and they get stopped and lose the game.😂

i thought he was gonna be ran off after that call, but he hung in and found a way for 13 years. It’s definitely been a roller coaster ride on the Reservation.

[AshlyHasBeen]

I’m interested in who will be handling scheduling on realignment day. Any previous agreements between Faircloth and other coaches could be wiped out. 
 

[TradenupBH]

Just now, AshlyKBMT said:

I’m interested in who will be handling scheduling on realignment day. Any previous agreements between Faircloth and other coaches could be wiped out. 
 

Reagan😂

[Cougtalk]

Wouldn't touch this job with a 50 foot poll but someone will. Hopefully for PNG they are as good a politician as football coach. 

[Cougtalk]

Sulphur Spring has traditionally had some good talent think we might see how good of a coach PNG is losing sooner rather than later. 

[biaplayer]

9 minutes ago, TradenupBH said:

I’ll never forget how it started with Faircloth. Playing Gregory -Portland in the Alamodome. We traveled to SA with a big group and went to the game. 4th Q, 4th and a foot. Faircloth decides to keep QB in shotgun and attempts to run a QB draw and they get stopped and lose the game.😂

i thought he was gonna be ran off after that call, but he hung in and found a way for 13 years. It’s definitely been a roller coaster ride on the Reservation.

Yeah that game was just messed up. But we came back the following year and beat the he'll out of them something like 48-0. In that game in San Antonio, we completely shut down the running game. It's when they starting throwing he'll Mary's and our corner back was not the one to stop them lol. They were forced to change their whole game plan and it worked. Unfortunately we made no changes and gave up several big plays and the game.

[Reagan]

11 minutes ago, Cougtalk said:

Sulphur Spring has traditionally had some good talent think we might see how good of a coach PNG is losing sooner rather than later. 

What if, just if, they could hire Surratt away from Carthage?!  How fast do you think everyone would be saying, "Faircloth who?"  Now, before some gets their underwear in a wad and say that this will never happen - I'm just making a point that there are better out there!  And who knows -- stranger things have happened!

[Reagan]

12 minutes ago, Cougtalk said:

Sulphur Spring has traditionally had some good talent think we might see how good of a coach PNG is losing sooner rather than later. 

But, don't you think that all depends on who they hire?  But, I'll agree with you that if it's agenda driven then you might be right!

[Cougtalk]

6 minutes ago, Reagan said:

What if, just if, they could hire Surratt away from Carthage?!  How fast do you think everyone would be saying, "Faircloth who?"  Now, before some gets their underwear in a wad and say that this will never happen - I'm just making a point that there are better out there!  And who knows -- stranger things have happened!

Yea you could also get Todd Dodge too, living in fairytales. 

[CoogsWompWomp]

32 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Scratching my head on the "toxic" situation you mentioned.  The man has been their for 12 years.  And before that, the coach was there for many years.  Maybe, just maybe, this coach finally realized he could not bring PNG to the level they required and it was time to go!

They just ran off a coach who took them to the third round. He was constantly under fire from parents. That doesn't make coaches super excited to move outside of the city to coach a team that doesnt have a bunch of FBS kids.

[Cougtalk]

4 minutes ago, Reagan said:

But, don't you think that all depends on who they hire?  But, I'll agree with you that if it's agenda driven then you might be right!

No, it's not a question of who PNG hirers because I think that Faircloth is going to do very very well at Sulphur Springs. 

 

It's like when Crosby let Flannigan go we then got a better Coach, then Rio left and it looks like we got an even better coach. I think the difference is location and resources. If the rumors are true that what rubbed people the wrong way was the AD demanding resources to be competitive then that doesn't bode well for your next hirer. 

 

PNG needs to go get a very talented OC/DC from a very good team and hope he turns out like Prieto did for Crosby. 

[Cougar14.2]

15 minutes ago, Cougtalk said:

Sulphur Spring has traditionally had some good talent think we might see how good of a coach PNG is losing sooner rather than later. 

Well, hopefully PNG really does have their guy. I would like to see our current staff stay together for at least a few years but I've been concerned that we could lose Coach Poth if a solid job came open. PNG kind of seems like the ideal for him.  

[bullets13]

On 1/22/2022 at 4:54 PM, Reagan said:

You forget to add that he's been there 12 years and no State Championships and no State Championship appearances.  Maybe there are those that finally had enough.  If someone can't do it in 12 years, you think they will be able to do it in 24 years?  After about 7 or 8 years you'll know if a coach is capable.  

there isn't any coach in the state that was or is going to take them to state.  this is laughable.  there are very few programs in any classification that can judge success and failure on trips to state, and PNG isn't one of them.  

[Cougar14.2]

10 minutes ago, Reagan said:

What if, just if, they could hire Surratt away from Carthage?!  How fast do you think everyone would be saying, "Faircloth who?"  Now, before some gets their underwear in a wad and say that this will never happen - I'm just making a point that there are better out there!  And who knows -- stranger things have happened!

Not fast at all. PNG doesn't have near the talent level comparable to their classification that Carthage does. Plus, Surratt already makes over $150k at Carthage and I doubt PNG can touch that. They would probably feel the same way BH does about Westerberg and his titles at Allen. 

[Fat guy]

On 1/22/2022 at 9:15 AM, Reagan said:

Art Briles!

I hope so 

[Fat guy]

22 hours ago, Reagan said:

Surratt has 8 State Titles           Joseph has 5 State Titles

Nothing is in a straight line.  Can't win them every year.  BUT -- to say these coaches had nothing to do with their schools winning a State Title is a little silly.  And since they didn't win it this year, and to then try and say, "see, it's not the coaching" is even more sillier!  Oh, BTW, Carthage never won a State Title before Surratt got there.  By the standards a lot here believe, this was just a "coincidence!"

Agreed - coaching can’t be ignored. But I think it’s short-sighted not to look at what Faircloth did with both eyes open and give credit where credit is due - PNG success, where we had it, under Faircloth, wasn’t guaranteed. Faircloth developed offensive talent on a year-to-year basis as well as or better than any coach in the area. And that kept us in games we should have lost. Would I like to see better defense? Yes. I also think we could be better. But there’s no guarantee a new coach is going to reach even what Faircloth did. But the one thing that’s certain is certain PNG fans are going to be toxic to the new guy and we’ll wonder in a few years why he left. They may as well start getting the for sale signs ready for the new guy. Sometimes PNG fans just don’t deserve a good coach. They don’t want a team, they want a club. Coach Thompson would have lasted five seconds at PNG because the first time he required an ounce of toughness from the kids he would lose the team. And no matter what Faircloth ever did, he was getting back-bit in every direction. I’m going to laugh my head off if Sulphur Springs win state under Faircloth. Not saying he will, but maybe he’s better than we gave him credit for? Best of luck to the new guy. I hope he likes listening to parents whine. 

[dBerrySports]

18 minutes ago, Fat guy said:

I hope so 

Just for content's sake, I want to see it happen

[Guest mrtomcat]

I am glad SS hired Faircloth.  They got a good one

[Cougar14.2]

3 hours ago, PN-G bamatex said:

You know, it's funny you say that. A couple other Austin insiders and I talk high school football a lot. There's an expectation inside the Capitol that 7A is coming, if not this realignment then the next. And a lot of those guys who pay attention and knew what PN-G had returning, felt like PN-G would be a powerhouse next season if the chips fall the right way in realignment. There was real potential on the horizon.

I'm not saying there's no chance it happens now. Faircloth brought PN-G its first undefeated regular season since 1977 during his first season at PN-G. We've got a great group of kids returning next year with a proven track record of beating the odds. But y'all know as well as I do that typically, the first season under a new coach is a bad one, even when he inherits a program in great shape like ours is.

All I can say is, if next season goes south, it's not on the boys. They fought hard for the PN-G program both on and off the field last year. If 2022 goes down as a bad season for PN-G, it's on the adults who bungled this thing.

Lol, well I guess those guys are as dumb as I am? IDK what number district in the region PNG will play from so you can't really lay out a path for them yet but just breaking down the possibilities of the other 30 or so teams in the region I came to the conclusion that PNG could get to the 4th round before they ever see a ranked team next year, much like Crosby's run this year. Not to mention there's a good chance PNG comes into the season ranked in the top 10 in D2 themselves. 

I don't think PNG beat any odds last year. They lost their rivalry game, which sucked, but looking back those other losses were pretty solid if you can call a loss solid. I said before the playoffs started last year that 3rd place would have an easier go of it than our 2nd place team would. Montgomery was ranked but I was at that game, PNG was better from whistle to whistle and looked like a more complete team. I think BF got outcoached in the TC game but what he was able to do in that Montgomery game is the reason he leads PNG in wins now. 

I agree that if it goes south it's on the adults though. I wonder what the same people that wanted BF out will say when you come into the season ranked, expecting to at least reach the regional semis but instead go 5-5? 

[outanup]

Doesn’t PNG have co ad’s…. One for girls and boys sports? If you raise the salary it would have to be for both. Very costly.

[PNGFaithful]

3 minutes ago, outanup said:

Doesn’t PNG have co ad’s…. One for girls and boys sports? If you raise the salary it would have to be for both. Very costly.

She’s supposedly retiring. 

[PNGFaithful]

1 hour ago, Stattrax said:

Well, I can say It now. I told you so……. No need to argue on the next coach. The 2 finalists are names we all know. BF did his time, although I’ve never been a fan, I hate to see his kid not finish up along with 80% of the starters back. If anyone for one second thinks he is leaving because he wants to, your crazy. 80% of your team back, fresh off a 3rd round, with realignment in our favor…. Use common sense folks. Shout out to him for bringing in offense. Let’s see how this all unfolds now. If you want the results now, just read my old posts.

I don’t want Cary back and I don’t want Langston. 

[bullets13]

2 hours ago, Reagan said:

First of all, let me say Doug Ethridge spanked Les Koenning in the Astrodome during a playoff run.  Another fact!  

Now, With Newton and Barbay:  There are no guarantees.  True I would have missed that one.  But, that's like 1% of the total.  The point is:  Do you let a coach stay there 30 years with the "hope" that he may start winning a state title?  Again, not me.  I miss a few along the way.  But that percentage is small.  Why?  Because there are not that many state championship-type coaches out there. 

Now Phil Danaher is an interesting situation:   I'm pretty sure he ran a respectable program through the years.  But -- one has to wonder why he couldn't bring it to the next level.  My thought, he's not one of the 10% out there that could.  But if the taxpayers, fan base and administration was happy going a couple of rounds in the playoffs and then going home, well, more power to them!  Again, that's where they set the bar!

Now a little speculation and a fact:  Concerning Faircloth:  Does anyone think that if he took over at Carthage right now that within 7 years he could win a State Title and replicate what Surratt has done?  That's the speculation part.  Now the fact:  Before Surratt got there -- no one did!!  Was he just so lucky that the talent only showed up at Carthage when he did??!!  I don't think any one here can honestly believe that!!

Yes, he could, with that level of talent and against that level of competition.  that being said, Surratt wouldn't have sniffed a state title if he'd coached at PNG for the last 13 years.  A great coach can only do so much, and there's a ceiling to what they can build.  the ceiling in carthage is higher than in png, and the quality of opponents in their division is notably lower.  There's also another big difference: Surratt has and has had for a long time the total support of the community.  That makes a big difference as well (although total support still isn't going to help any coach make png any type of contender for state).  I just read through this whole thread, and the guy who called you delusional hit the nail on the head.  Post after post about not going to state.  there are close to 3000 high school football teams in texas, and 24 go to state a year.  For various reasons, some schools go multiple times in a row, or multiple times in the space of a few years.  If you multiply 24 x 13 you get 312 teams that have appeared in a state championship since faircloth took over at PNG.  156 state champs, total (actually a few less, because there was no 6A when he took them over).  And there are several, several teams and coaches that have taken up multiple opportunities to go to state.  I'm absolutely not doing the research on this one, but I'm willing to bet less than 100 total coaches have won state championships since he was hired at PNG.  In that time coaches in Texas have coached approximately 39000 football seasons, and less than 100 of them have a state title.  Those titles happen for different reasons, whether it be talent, coaching, cheating, recruiting, or a combination of all of these things, but one thing is absolutely certain: there is no coach in the state, country, or world, that can take a school with a fraction of the talent of most of the teams they'll meet in the playoffs and lead them to state.  There comes a point where the gulf in talent is too much for any team or coach to overcome.  Scott Surratt could take over WOS tomorrow and lead them to frequent state championships from now until he decides to retire.  The talent is there, the community support is there.  He could take over PNG tomorrow and he'd never consistently lead them to a state anything, at least until reallignments drastically change the path that PNG  has to take.  For many teams their only shot at a deep run is a fluke situation, and that's certainly where PNG is.  In the classes 4A and below a team can have a special class and make a deep run or a couple of deep runs, and a coach or team can overachieve and maybe make a magical run.  but in 5A and above there are too many schools that field college teams every season.  PNG isn't going to have a coach come in and magically make them capable of making deep runs against teams with 10+ D1 players, with several more D2 and D3 quality players, when PNG is fielding a D1 player or two every few years.  As a matter of fact, PNG could combine their talent pool with Nederland and they're STILL not going to state.  The idea that any coach that doesn't take his team to state hasn't succeeded is laughable.  There are about 3 dozen schools in Texas out of 3000 that can use that as a realistic measuring stick for the success of their coaches.  

[bullets13]

1 hour ago, Cougar14.2 said:

Not fast at all. PNG doesn't have near the talent level comparable to their classification that Carthage does. Plus, Surratt already makes over $150k at Carthage and I doubt PNG can touch that. They would probably feel the same way BH does about Westerberg and his titles at Allen. 

PNG doesn't have the talent level comparable to Carthage, period.  The fact that they're up a Division and have to play against much steeper competition makes it that much worse.