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Better Football Power Newton or WOS?

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3 hours ago, WOSgrad said:

Scoreboard says Newton.  5 titles to WO-S' 4.

That's not head to head...

2019 Newton 20-14
2018 Newton 21-7
2015 West Orange-Stark 48-6
2014 Newton 19-7
1999 West Orange-Stark 18-0
1998 West Orange-Stark 10-0
1997 West Orange-Stark 30-0
1996 West Orange-Stark 12-6
1989 West Orange-Stark 47-9
1988 West Orange-Stark 24-0

My scoreboard says 7-3 WOS. And the only loss in their 98 championship season. So doesn't that cancel out the "1 more trophy than WOS" argument?

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37 minutes ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

That's not head to head...

2019 Newton 20-14
2018 Newton 21-7
2015 West Orange-Stark 48-6
2014 Newton 19-7
1999 West Orange-Stark 18-0
1998 West Orange-Stark 10-0
1997 West Orange-Stark 30-0
1996 West Orange-Stark 12-6
1989 West Orange-Stark 47-9
1988 West Orange-Stark 24-0

My scoreboard says 7-3 WOS. And the only loss in their 98 championship season. So doesn't that cancel out the "1 more trophy than WOS" argument?

No.  Absent the special teams that the Eagles had over the last few years, the Mustangs should take the Eagles, just as I would expect Memorial or West Brook to take the Mustangs, yet that doesn't make them more of a football powerhouse than West Orange-Stark.

Also, the Eagles have been on their current run for about 12-15 years longer than the Mustangs have.  The current run for the Eagles began about 1970 while the Mustangs didn't start their playoff roll until 1985.

The Eagles haven't missed the playoffs in 32 years (1988).  The Mustangs have missed the playoffs 5 times (1992-although that was due to forfeit, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2003) in that same period.

The Mustangs are a HUGE football powerhouse and just about any other team in this area wouldn't stack up.  But the Eagles aren't any other team.

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10 minutes ago, WOSgrad said:

No.  Absent the special teams that the Eagles had over the last few years, the Mustangs should take the Eagles, just as I would expect Memorial or West Brook to take the Mustangs, yet that doesn't make them more of a football powerhouse than West Orange-Stark.

Also, the Eagles have been on their current run for about 12-15 years longer than the Mustangs have.  The current run for the Eagles began about 1970 while the Mustangs didn't start their playoff roll until 1985.

The Eagles haven't missed the playoffs in 32 years (1988).  The Mustangs have missed the playoffs 5 times (1992-although that was due to forfeit, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2003) in that same period.

The Mustangs are a HUGE football powerhouse and just about any other team in this area wouldn't stack up.  But the Eagles aren't any other team.

+1

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If WOS played in Newton's classification, they'd have won state every year since 1977.  

If Newton played in WOS's classification, their record would look like ours.

Newton has more SCs, but it took them a hundred+ years to get them.  WOS's are all recent.

Newton is a really good small school.  Probably considered a great school for it's size.  But nobody cares who was the NCAA Division 2 or JuCo Champion.  Winning 3AD2 titles brings the same kind of respect.

 

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1 hour ago, CardinalBacker said:

If WOS played in Newton's classification, they'd have won state every year since 1977.  

If Newton played in WOS's classification, their record would look like ours.

Newton has more SCs, but it took them a hundred+ years to get them.  WOS's are all recent.

Newton is a really good small school.  Probably considered a great school for it's size.  But nobody cares who was the NCAA Division 2 or JuCo Champion.  Winning 3AD2 titles brings the same kind of respect.

 

So 6A and 5A think the same about 4A?

To be more specific, 4A DI looks down on 4A DII?

State championships are state championships, no matter what classification you win them in.

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2 hours ago, AggiesAreWe said:

So 6A and 5A think the same about 4A?

To be more specific, 4A DI looks down on 4A DII?

State championships are state championships, no matter what classification you win them in.

I’m sure that they do... if not, they should. 
 

I agree that State Championships are a super accomplishment no matter the level. 
 

But you can’t honestly say that a 3A State championship means the same thing as a 6A Championship. 
 

Everything from the quality of facilities to the number of fans and even the freaking halftime shows are absolutely not worth comparing. The level of play is on completely different planets, the athletes available are so much better, coaching is better, and the quality of competition that must be beaten to earn a championship is undeniably stacked in favor of the larger schools. 

I’ll spell it out like this. Newton is a great small school that does a good job of playing at the level of good larger teams during Newton’s good years. On Newton’s bad years they’re a lot more beatable by average bigger programs. That’s not a knock on Newton.  The problem is that everybody knows that Newton is gonna roll straight over their district opponents and deep into the playoffs without ever facing the kind of talent that exists in 4A and 5A districts. It absolutely knocks some of the shine off of those trophies.  That’s not Newton’s fault.... that’s just how it is.  There were some featherweight fights on a couple of weeks ago, but we were all watching Fury-Wilder.  
 
Go to the dirt track on a Saturday night. They run the bombers first and the hottest, fastest cars run at the end of the night.  True, the guy in that old beat-up Monte Carlo might have won his class, but the guy in the World of Outlaws winged sprint car is the big winner that night. 

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2 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

I’m sure that they do... if not, they should. 
 

I agree that State Championships are a super accomplishment no matter the level. 
 

But you can’t honestly say that a 3A State championship means the same thing as a 6A Championship. 
 

Everything from the quality of facilities to the number of fans and even the freaking halftime shows are absolutely not worth comparing. The level of play is on completely different planets, the athletes available are so much better, coaching is better, and the quality of competition that must be beaten to earn a championship is undeniably stacked in favor of the larger schools. 

I’ll spell it out like this. Newton is a great small school that does a good job of playing at the level of good larger teams during Newton’s good years. On Newton’s bad years they’re a lot more beatable by average bigger programs. That’s not a knock on Newton.  The problem is that everybody knows that Newton is gonna roll straight over their district opponents and deep into the playoffs without ever facing the kind of talent that exists in 4A and 5A districts. It absolutely knocks some of the shine off of those trophies.  That’s not Newton’s fault.... that’s just how it is.  There were some featherweight fights on a couple of weeks ago, but we were all watching Fury-Wilder.  
 
Go to the dirt track on a Saturday night. They run the bombers first and the hottest, fastest cars run at the end of the night.  True, the guy in that old beat-up Monte Carlo might have won his class, but the guy in the World of Outlaws winged sprint car is the big winner that night. 

I don’t think you realize the facts you stated are actually what makes Newton a powerhouse. No other school only enrolling 3 or 400 students a year is producing half the athletes Newton is. And Newton could probably still beat BC on a bad year. And probably win some of the 4A districts on a bad year 

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12 hours ago, Setx fan said:

I don’t think you realize the facts you stated are actually what makes Newton a powerhouse. No other school only enrolling 3 or 400 students a year is producing half the athletes Newton is. And Newton could probably still beat BC on a bad year. And probably win some of the 4A districts on a bad year 

Lol.... They have their hands full with schools like us and Orangefield on their down years.  

I think you are the one that isn't understanding what I'm saying...  Everybody knows who Mike Tyson was.  At the same time that he was the heavyweight world champion, there was an undisputed 115 lb. champion walking around, too-but nobody could name him, then or now.  

Newton's accomplishments are fantastic and worthy of tons of respect.  But 3A championships are kinda like WNBA championships... only the unhinged would try to claim that a NBA championship to a WNBA championship are equal.  That's the whole point of this conversation... whose a better powerhouse? A school with 5 small school championships or 4 bigger school championships.  Oh... an one of them has the highest winning percentage in TXHSFB.  

 

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8 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

Lol.... They have their hands full with schools like us and Orangefield on their down years.  

I think you are the one that isn't understanding what I'm saying...  Everybody knows who Mike Tyson was.  At the same time that he was the heavyweight world champion, there was an undisputed 115 lb. champion walking around, too-but nobody could name him, then or now.  

Newton's accomplishments are fantastic and worthy of tons of respect.  But 3A championships are kinda like WNBA championships... only the unhinged would try to claim that a NBA championship to a WNBA championship are equal.  That's the whole point of this conversation... whose a better powerhouse? A school with 5 small school championships or 4 bigger school championships.  Oh... an one of them has the highest winning percentage in TXHSFB.  

 

Floyd Mayweather was the Welterweight champ not too long ago. Does anybody know who the heavyweight champ was during that time? And there were plenty heavyweights who probably would have KOed him but they didn’t get the same recognition because their greatness didn’t matchup pound for pound. 

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5 hours ago, Setx fan said:

Floyd Mayweather was the Welterweight champ not too long ago. Does anybody know who the heavyweight champ was during that time? And there were plenty heavyweights who probably would have KOed him but they didn’t get the same recognition because their greatness didn’t matchup pound for pound. 

And everybody knows that Mayweather's record is a joke because he never faced any decent competition in their prime.  

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20 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

And everybody knows that Mayweather's record is a joke because he never faced any decent competition in their prime.  

Mayweather faced everyone. He can’t controll the timing of the fights or catch every fighter in their prime because he can’t face em all at once. He stayed in his prime throughout his career the same way Newton has. They’re verry good in whatever classification they’re in each year. Some years they are able to beat some of the best teams at the next level up. On their worst years they’re still able to beat average teams at the next level up. But “everybody knows” a haters gonna hate lol 

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49 minutes ago, Setx fan said:

Mayweather faced everyone. He can’t controll the timing of the fights or catch every fighter in their prime because he can’t face em all at once. He stayed in his prime throughout his career the same way Newton has. They’re verry good in whatever classification they’re in each year. Some years they are able to beat some of the best teams at the next level up. On their worst years they’re still able to beat average teams at the next level up. But “everybody knows” a haters gonna hate lol 

Mayweather ducked Moseley for years.  Pacquiao for years.... etc, etc, etc.... 

So why has WOS been in existence since 77 (I think) and won four, but it's taken Newton 100+ years to win 5 against much, much weaker competition?

Do you really want to talk winning percentages? 

I'll put it to you like this... 2015.  The Eagles started out 1 and 4, losing to teams like WOS, Henderson, (neither of which are anything to be ashamed of) BRIDGE CITY  and Orangefield.  The Eagles then "flipped a switch" and went undefeated in District play and were "upset" by Franklin in a close game in the 3rd round of the playoffs.   Except it wasn't so much a "flipped switch" as much as the fact that there was a tremendous drop in the level of competition faced by the Eagles once district play started.  And that's true of every year. 

Newton's dominance has a whole lot more to do with playing sorry opposition when it counts.  It's not Newton's fault, but everybody realizes that you guys have a cakewalk through the playoffs compared to the paths taken by the teams to which you keep trying to compare yourselves.

Be proud.  You guys have won more than your share of small school championships.  It really is impressive.  But you guys believe that having the prize-winning pig at the Jasper County Livestock show is the exact same thing as having the Grand Champion at the Houston Livestock Show.  I mean, they're both pigs, right?

 

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The fact that they can loose to a bunch of 4A teams (during their worst season the past 5 years) 2 of them being very close losses then still go undefeated in district and exit the playoffs in the 3rd round says a lot about their program. 4A schools are supposed to beat 3A schools. But most times that isn’t the case when it comes to Newton. 

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44 minutes ago, Setx fan said:

The fact that they can loose to a bunch of 4A teams (during their worst season the past 5 years) 2 of them being very close losses then still go undefeated in district and exit the playoffs in the 3rd round says a lot about their program. 4A schools are supposed to beat 3A schools. But most times that isn’t the case when it comes to Newton. 

Well.... the whole purpose of this thread was to ask which program was the bigger powerhouse. Since WOS regularly steps up and plays 5As like Nederland and PNG, you can’t claim an advantage there, either. 

WOS’ football program outshines Newton’s in every way possible.  
 

 

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23 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

I’m sure that they do... if not, they should. 
 

I agree that State Championships are a super accomplishment no matter the level. 
 

But you can’t honestly say that a 3A State championship means the same thing as a 6A Championship. 
 

Everything from the quality of facilities to the number of fans and even the freaking halftime shows are absolutely not worth comparing. The level of play is on completely different planets, the athletes available are so much better, coaching is better, and the quality of competition that must be beaten to earn a championship is undeniably stacked in favor of the larger schools. 

I’ll spell it out like this. Newton is a great small school that does a good job of playing at the level of good larger teams during Newton’s good years. On Newton’s bad years they’re a lot more beatable by average bigger programs. That’s not a knock on Newton.  The problem is that everybody knows that Newton is gonna roll straight over their district opponents and deep into the playoffs without ever facing the kind of talent that exists in 4A and 5A districts. It absolutely knocks some of the shine off of those trophies.  That’s not Newton’s fault.... that’s just how it is.  There were some featherweight fights on a couple of weeks ago, but we were all watching Fury-Wilder.  
 
Go to the dirt track on a Saturday night. They run the bombers first and the hottest, fastest cars run at the end of the night.  True, the guy in that old beat-up Monte Carlo might have won his class, but the guy in the World of Outlaws winged sprint car is the big winner that night. 

I am going to post 3 images: 1 is of Jon Kay holding up North Shore's 6A, Division I trophy in 2019, 1 is of W.T. Johnston holding up Newton's 3A, Division II trophy in 2018 and the 3rd is of Cornel Thompson holding up West Orange-Stark's Class 4A, Division II in 2016.  Tell me which is which:

1

Thompson2.png

2

Johnston2.png

3

Kay2.png

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