Lets break this swing down.

[swingbuilder]

www.builder.hittingillustrated.com/AARONMILLER.avi

[tvc184]

www.builder.hittingillustrated.com/AARONMILLER.avi

I would love to but the link doesn't work.

[KFDM COOP]

That's what i was thinking.

[adminbaberuth]

I worked through it and found a swing I liked, that of Collin Delome. Of course when he played summer league for me I taught he everything ;D

Of course his Dad had nothing to do with it, right Russell?

[swingbuilder]

Ok, lets break Collins swing down. Tell me what you see. Thanks

found a swing I liked, that of Collin Delome

Do you like the swing or is it because you know him? What is it you like?

[Lucky]

I totally don't know what you want me to look at. I did open up some kid hitting under "drills", and did not understand why he was way out on his front foot and his back foot even came way off the ground...........What's that all about ?

[swingbuilder]

Lucky, its a drill to teach hitters how to hit "AGAINST" the frontside and not "ON" the backside.

[Lucky]

Lucky, its a drill to teach hitters how to hit "AGAINST" the frontside and not "ON" the backside.

Bear with me, I'm no expert, but what do you mean by hitting against the frontside?

[swingbuilder]

Lucky, big league hitters transfer their weight against the front side (leg) and that makes the back foot sometimes come off the ground or slide forward in the swing. Big league hitters do not hit with weight on the back leg.

[swingbuilder]

Fixed the link.....now lets work through this hitter.

http://www.builder.hittingillustrated.com/College/AARONMILLER.avi

[adminbaberuth]

I'm going to abstain to all mentioned on this thread ( Sam Moore, Jeremy Green , Matt Thompson , JR Bardin, Chris Fackler) and now you swingbuilder.

Is this the Miller kid from Channelview?

What is this program you have us linking to?

[swingbuilder]

I'm going to abstain to all mentioned on this thread ( Sam Moore, Jeremy Green , Matt Thompson , JR Bardin, Chris Fackler) and now you swingbuilder.

I'm sorry. I guess I'm lost. I thought I was answering Luckies question. Can you fill me in?

Yes this is the Channelview Miller who is now at Baylor.

What program? its just webspace where I have some swing and pitching clips stored.

swingbuilder

www.hittingillustrated.com

[Lucky]

Lucky, big league hitters transfer their weight against the front side (leg) and that makes the back foot sometimes come off the ground or slide forward in the swing. Big league hitters do not hit with weight on the back leg.

OK, the Miller kid looks good but I don't like the drill from the earlier link. It looks like it could start some bad habits and cause hitters to get too far out on the front side. I believe you can teach hitters to be more balanced without all that.

[swingbuilder]

Its ok if you don't like the drill. This kid doing the drill is a starter at a major west coast University. The drill merely allows him to feel how his back hip and leg move in relation to a good lower half.

I'm not a fan of a center of body swing. In other words revolving door (like those revolving doors you see in hospital entrances) where the axis is in the middle. I prefer some movement against the frontside, this creates momentum, and having rotation more like a swinging gate (like the gate on a fence or how a door would open to a house). where the axis is the front hip/ leg.

Thanks Lucky. Good luck

Now lets get back to the Miller clip. Baberuth are you going to discuss the swing and give me your evaluation? TVC, lets talk about what we see in the clip I posted now that it is working.

[hfaninthestands]

those swings look great....

and if anyone needs any car insurance they can contact me at 1-800-Geico

[swingbuilder]

nice dance step Hfan....see your dancing in your post as well!! ;D

[sportsman28]

Fixed the link.....now lets work through this hitter.

This is just my two cents worth.  I think Aaron does a tremendous job of getting separation between his stride moving forward and his hands going back at the same time.  To me it looks as if he leaks a little with his front foot landing causing him to prematurely open up too soon with his hips.  He goes down to the ball very well and his hand path with the hands leading is good.  He rotates against the front leg very well giving him the leverage he needs.  He may have missed one frame of extension through contact (maybe just finished a bit early). That is my opinion of the swing.

[meat]

I know Aaron. Good ball player, better yet, great ball player.

The linear movement is one that is not widely taught at younger levels. As kids progress, this technique is brought upon them by "new age" (for lack of a better term) hitting instructors. Not all D1 colleges teach linear hitting.

There are a lot of linear hitters in the big leagues.

Gary Sheffield

Ichiro

Jose Reyes

Alfonso Soriano

These are just a few that come to mind. The linear move is great if it's taught early and worked against live arm. My biggest concern is timing. I've seen a lot of hitters who get the front foot down, then see off-speed, and have to adjust without any kind of back knee/hip behind the swing. If the hitter initiates the linear move early, he loses his back half, and may be forced to adjust with the shoulders, which is never good. Also I have learned that for some unknown reason, the hip movement forward causes a lot of swing to go bar-armed (straightening of the lead elbow). Bar-armed kids can hit in high school, not in college. However, the linear move can work. The great ones can do it, obviously. They get the front toe down and adjust to the offspeed pitch by accelerating the front heel down toward the ground to do what we call "sit." But more often than not, this causes the swing to become more rotational, and less linear.

Through years of studying hitting, I have found that this new age thinking does and will work with kids. It just has to be taught early. There are less inconsistentcies with rotational hitting however. This is the same, "sit on the back side and squash the bug" technique taught by dads and little league coaches everywhere. One of, if not the, best hitting coach in this area, Chris Fackler, is a rotational guy. Before he took the asst. job at McNeese, he did lessons with tons of local kids, and everyone I talked to loved him. However, rotational hitting doesn't stop in college/high school. In fact, many of the power hitters in the bigs are purely rotational.

David Ortiz

Barry Bonds

Albert Pujols

Lance Berkman

My theory is adjust to what the kid does best. If he has the ability to be a linear hitter, you can sculpt him out to be a  dangerous, low-strike out type of hitter.

The reason people debate hitting so often is because it is the hardest thing to do in sports (mathematically). You're trying to hit a round ball with a round bat, and you gotta hit it square for it to go anywhere. Think about that...

[adminbaberuth]

This is just my two cents worth.  I think Aaron does a tremendous job of getting separation between his stride moving forward and his hands going back at the same time.  To me it looks as if he leaks a little with his front foot landing causing him to prematurely open up too soon with his hips.  He goes down to the ball very well and his hand path with the hands leading is good.  He rotates against the front leg very well giving him the leverage he needs.  He may have missed one frame of extension through contact (maybe just finished a bit early). That is my opinion of the swing.

Sportsman, don't cut yourself short, that's worth more than .02. 

[swingbuilder]

does a tremendous job of getting separation between his stride moving forward and his hands going back at the same time.

How is he doing this? Are you sure his hands are moving back? I encourage you to check his hands with something in the background. Isn't his movement forward making you think he is moving his hands back?

To me it looks as if he leaks a little with his front foot landing causing him to prematurely open up too soon with his hips.

Good hitters rotate INTO foot plant. They do this by turning the middle or hip. They don't do so by opening the leg and knee before the hip.

He may have missed one frame of extension through contact (maybe just finished a bit early).

Really! He hit this ball, a curveball from a good lefty, about 480 feet.

The linear movement is one that is not widely taught at younger levels.

Only because the teacher don't know how to teach it.

this technique is brought upon them by "new age" (for lack of a better term) hitting instructors.

New age? Heck Babe Ruth did it and every hitter in the Hall of Fame did as well.

There are a lot of linear hitters in the big leagues.

They all are. Name some that aren't.

the hip movement forward causes a lot of swing to go bar-armed (straightening of the lead elbow).

The hip moving forward is not the cause of the bar in the arm. Its because of the arms and also because someone is telling the hitter that he must move his hands back in the swing. Big League hitters do not move their hands back with the arms. They move their bodies forward and it tricks most who watch video of the hitter and looks like the arms are moving the hands back.

Bar-armed kids can hit in high school, not in college.

Ken Griffey Jr is a bar-armed hitter, and your right, he didn't play in college. But he'll be a Hall of Famer. Go figure. Once again, just seeing a arm bar doesn't mean its bad. You'd have to see how the arm got that way. If it got that way because of forward movement/ weight transfer then its ok. If it got there by the arms moving the hands back then it would not be ok.

"sit."

This happens from the middle during the transfer and not from the foot. The heel plant is the same all the time.

There are less inconsistentcies with rotational hitting however. This is the same, "sit on the back side and squash the bug" technique taught by dads and little league coaches everywhere.

The greatest and best hitters DO NOT sit on the backside and they do not squish any bugs. The back foot and how it turns is a RESULT of the hips rotation. It is not the cause of the hips rotation.

In fact, many of the power hitters in the bigs are purely rotational.

David Ortiz

Barry Bonds

Albert Pujols

Lance Berkman

All the guys mentioned all move their weight forward and all have linear movements within a rotational swing. There are no pure linear hitters in the big leagues.

[meat]

wow...

so much for opinions and theories on hitting.

swingbuilder has all the answers.

I played D1 and minor league ball...what do I know?

I tried to pick up linear hitting, but I lost rhythm/timing. I understand that there is a linear move in rotational hitting, but that is far from pure linear hitting.

In my opinion, the key to hitting is not whether the swing is linear/rotational but rather bat path and leverage. Pure bat path is something that can be taught and drilled on. The first thing I tell younger kids about hitting is that it's all about leverage. The 5 or 6 leverage points that are present throughout the stages of a swing are hinged upon one another. The more leverage points you can keep stacked, the higher percentage you have of hitting the ball hard.

There are pure linear hitters. Gary Sheffield....

KGJr. is the exception to the rule my friend. Much like Bagwell, some people can do a lot of things wrong a get away with it. They're just gifted like that.

You give lessons and such I presume swingbuilder? Or am I off-base?

We could sit here and go back forth all-day about hitting, we may never get anywhere though. Different strokes for different folks.

[sportsman28]

Swingbuilder, I do appreciate the rebuttal of how I broke down the swing.  I will give you the credit, it does now look as if the positive move forward is making the hands get in launch position.  But i will stick to my assessment that Big League hitters get into toe touch with a closed front foot and hip closed (the athletic position), then as they rotate on the backside they firm up the front leg .  Maybe I am wrong but I compare my hitters to Big league hitters everyday. As far as the extension goes, I watch ARod, Manny Ramirez, Albert Pujols, etc. and they have that good extension all the way through the contact zone.  It was great that you had the luxury of knowing the result beforehand.  My comment of his extension was merely about the frame or frames that might have been missing or I missed.  My look at Aaron's swing was being compared to the swings i see on my Rightview Program of Don Slaught's.  Sorry if my assessment does not match up to yours.  As I said early just my two cents worth. 

In closing I will like to say that how people view the swing could be interperted different ways.  Two weeks ago I spent time with two of the most knowlegable baseball men in the world today and we were talking about hitting.  And they too disagreed on cetain parts of the swing.  Go figure.

[swingbuilder]

wow...

so much for opinions and theories on hitting.

swingbuilder has all the answers.

Meat, its ashame you have to make a personal attacking comment like the one above. Answers? Opinions? Theories? Watch swing clips of big league hitters, they all do it the same way.

I played D1 and minor league ball...what do I know?

So did I, but does that qualify you or anyone? No one cares what you did! The question is do you know a good swing when you see it. Lets keep the personal issues out of the talks. I'm not interested in your past.

I understand that there is a linear move in rotational hitting, but that is far from pure linear hitting.

ALL swings have both linear and rotational movements. How can a hitter be pure Linear? He still turns the hips doesn't he?

bat path and leverage.

Here is a clip of good bat path and bad bat path. Now tell me why one can achieve a good path and why one can't. Sense you played in the minors. Here is a comparrison clip of a minor leaguer and a big leaguer.

www.builder.hittingillustrated.com/Pro/barrelpath.mov

Yes, bat path is important. But MORE important is how to achieve the proper bat path. As for leverage, if you have to think about the leverage spots then your beat anyway. Leverage points are really the Kinetic Link.

There are pure linear hitters. Gary Sheffield....

Sorry, but Sheffield turns from the middle(hips). He is as far from a linear hitter as there is. You'd have to define "your" meaning of linear and rotational and also "Pure" linear and "Pure" rotational.

KGJr. is the exception to the rule my friend. Much like Bagwell, some people can do a lot of things wrong a get away with it. They're just gifted like that.

No he isn't. He has a conventional swing. He transfers his weight forward against his frontside leg and he "does not" take his hands back by extending his arms back. He holds the hands in place and the movement forward TRICKS people into thinking he takes his hands back. No exception, nor was Bagwell. He swung from the middle as well.

You give lessons and such I presume swingbuilder? Or am I off-base?

I do, but why is that an issue?

We could sit here and go back forth all-day about hitting, we may never get anywhere though. Different strokes for different folks.

Disagree. All the strokes in the big leagues, are all the same!

Point out to us the leverage points in this swing clip below. And also point out both his linear and rotational movements and also tell me you see his weight staying back. It just doesn't happen in big league hitters. They transfer and hit against the frontside.

[swingbuilder]

Sportsman...I sure enjoy talking hittting and I encourage you to keep watching big league swing clips.

then as they rotate on the backside they firm up the front leg

What you'll see is that big league hitters do not rotate on the backside. The firming of the frontleg is cause and effect. Meaning, the frontleg firms because the hip rotation makes it firm. So its an effect/ result of the hip rotation and not the cause. Big league hitters do not force the leg firm by pushing against the ground. Nor does the back foot start the hip rotation. Again, the back foot is an effect/ result of the middle/ hips rotation. Big league hitters and good hitters do not hit with weight on the backside. All the weight is against the frontside.

Don is a friend of mine and I to have RVP and utilize it everyday. What you'll see in those clips that Don has on right view pro is that they all have the back foot off the ground or up on the tip of the toe or sliding forward at contact. Everyone of them. How can there be weight bearing on a foot that is doing that? Can't.

In closing I will like to say that how people view the swing could be interperted different ways.

Sportsman, I agree. If you view it right then you have a chance to be a good hitter, if you don't, well the career will come to an end pretty quick.

Here is a clip of both Pujols and Ortiz. Are they rotating into heel plant or are their hips square to the plate at foot plant? Do they have weight on the backside? Both of these guys back foots are not in a position to bear any weight at contact.

[sportsman28]

Swingbuilder, maybe my terminology is a little different but I understand exactly what you are talking about.  I agree with the forward momentum into the swing.  I am definately ok with our hitters back foot moving forward or even coming off the ground at contact. I have seen pictures of Hank Aaron doing this.  I will continue to watch the Big League guys, and continue to listen to what Don has to say about hitting.  I also respect your take as well.