2014 and Beyond

[Bon_Mot]

Rip brought up a good topic.  How would you overhaul our youth system?

I think one of the biggest problems is the "Pay to Play" system in some of the highest levels of our clubs. I think you could go to downtown Houston today, cull a couple of dozen kids from the inner city, and beat the tar out of the Texans within 3 months of quality training in tatics and a little conditioning. Too many kids are being left out of the process because they can't afford the travel or trainer's fees.  Dempsey's parents went to outrageous lengths to keep him with the Dallas Texans.  
And, in my opinion, there are WAY too many silver spoon, mama's boy, never been told "NO" entitled, punks in the system. Another problem with our club system is the lack of creativity. One of the jokes with foreign trainers is that US kids will sit around before practice with a sack of soccer balls and wait for the cones and coaches, but the rest of the world's kids would be playing as soon as 4 kids showed up and they could find anything to use for goals.
Next, winning is emphasized too early.  Many youth teams will put their kid who is the most mature (biggest and fastest) up front and long-ball to him constantly so that he can out run or out muscle the opposition for a goal. The problem is that this is seen as successful because in America, if you're not #1, you're not good enough. Even at U10. And eventually when the rest of the kids catch up with that big kid, no one has figured out how to solve the puzzle and PLAY the game.
Soccer is ultimately pretty simple.  It comes down to which team is more athletic, composed, skilled, or creative.  Our current system addresses one of the four: Finding the best athletes.  The new Academy system is working at this somewhat.  I like that most of the MLS teams have Academy teams and the "homegrown" rule, eventhough no one that anyone knows has taken advantage of it. And I really like limiting the games and increasing the training sessions.

I've got more, but I've got a Mensa meeting to attend now. ;)  What are your thoguhts?

[rip2506]

I like what your saying Bon...When we pull up at the Albion facility there are quite a few porsche's, benz and bmw's. It is quite expensive. 1400.00 for fall and spring +300 registration. + uniform and tournaments etc.. and we have not begun going to the premier games in OK and Brenham. But unfortunately this is something that you have to do at this time to play premier level soccer (Where most of the scouts are). I was speaking to the assistant coach at Texas Sarah Barnes and in a 3 week period she was going to Baton Rouge, Alberquerque NM, and Dayton Ohio, chasing premier level talent.

It's probably true about those inner-city kids as well. Many who's parents come from South of the Border and Soccer is Primera! My daughter used to play part-time with a mostly boy's team in Port Arthur on Friday nights a few years back... her best friend another girl was also on the team. It was made up entirely of  under privileged hispanic kids and the coach was a volunteer and he did not charge the kids anything I believe. That was a cool vibe. I do not know if the coach is still doing this, I hope he is. It was good for my daughter to compete against very skilled young men. Young men, I mean 13 and 14 year old boys.

It's funny this same topic was covered on ESPN's show Around the Horn, where they have the 4 sports reporters answering questions and scoring points. The guy from Dallas Texas said "how many times have you heard a highschool football coach say that it was hard to field a team because all the kids were playing soccer".... I know it happens the other way around with football and baseball for sure in the spring.  I am so glad my child is a girl.. It was fairly easy to keep her focused for past 12yrs due to the fact she did not care for Softball that much.

It's a quandry!

[rip2506]

Sorry for being nosy, but I had to look up Mensa. I like listening to smart people.. So preach Bon.... Preach! ;D

I tried the workout.... donot know how well I did because I asked for a grade after the first question.... But I will be honest several of the questions had my head wanting to burst. Especially the question about it is two hours later and half way to midnight so what time is it if it is only 1 hour later. or something like that. ::)

I have one question off topic Bon... What is the best method for improving your critical reading score on the SAT? Broader vocabulary?

[Guest Newbie]

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. ;)

[bullets13]

you had a menstral meeting?  sounds terrible.

[Bon_Mot]

I was totally joking about the Mensa thing.  I was being a wisenheimer because I tend to be a know-it-all with my posts on here. Besides, the only meetings I should be attending are AA.

Along the lines of that "entitled" theme for many of those upper class kids in the big cities is a lack of drive.  If a kid doesn't like his playing time or the team he's on, instead of busting his tail to become a better player or better teammate, he simply goes to another team or mommy and daddy start a coup to get whoever they want replaced.
The trainers at the big clubs are to blame for a lot of this, as well.  Instead of working to get the players on a team better, they will simply scout for better talent from other teams to poach with promises of scholarships or better training with blokes with cooler accents.

For kids who want to get better, figure out when the last time you called a couple of friends and just knocked around or when you worked on skills by yourself. I'm gonna go Glory Days on you now, but when I was in high school I spent countless hours playing "volley ball" onto the roof by myself.  I also had a ball at my feet inside of the house most of the time.  I would dribble wherever I went.

[Guest Newbie]

[quote name="rip2506" post="815142" timestamp="1277784694"]
I have one question off topic Bon... What is the best method for improving your critical reading score on the SAT? Broader vocabulary?
[/quote]
Reading anything you can get your hands on. For those local kids that are interested in pickup games and not joining a league/club, I know several teenagers that actually schedule games on Facebook.  Short notice, yes but the turnout is actually pretty good.  A mixture of ages and skill level but definitely better than a Rec game.  Get involved.

[rip2506]

[quote name="Bon_Mot" post="815190" timestamp="1277823404"]
I was totally joking about the Mensa thing.  I was being a wisenheimer because I tend to be a know-it-all with my posts on here. Besides, the only meetings I should be attending are AA.

Along the lines of that "entitled" theme for many of those upper class kids in the big cities is a lack of drive.  If a kid doesn't like his playing time or the team he's on, instead of busting his tail to become a better player or better teammate, he simply goes to another team or mommy and daddy start a coup to get whoever they want replaced.
The trainers at the big clubs are to blame for a lot of this, as well.  Instead of working to get the players on a team better, they will simply scout for better talent from other teams to poach with promises of scholarships or better training with blokes with cooler accents.

For kids who want to get better, figure out when the last time you called a couple of friends and just knocked around or when you worked on skills by yourself. I'm gonna go Glory Days on you now, but when I was in high school I spent countless hours playing "volley ball" onto the roof by myself.  I also had a ball at my feet inside of the house most of the time.  I would dribble wherever I went.
[/quote]

Bon you got me on that one! (the Mensa thing) very interesting though, I told a friend of mine today to take the work out. I got 63% (F) out of the 30 questions this morning when I regrouped to take the test. The fact that you said you played volleyball has me wondering are you a female? The punk kids comments had me believing you were of male persuaion. Just my curiousity getting the best of me. Yes I thought Mensa was a rehab progam?

The system does seem broke, but scouting is easier than working. You are also scouting for the kids that have taking the time to do their homework and improve.

It is hard in this area(Golden Trianlge) to develop a team of premier level playing ability. There is such a variance on commitment level. I wrote tons of emails when I was the assistant coach trying to motivate our players and parents to give more effort and we could become truly great, but many did not have the same vision and were happy with the 3 titles that they had won. No knock on them they were living their lives the way that saw fit. The difference is that All the players on her current team want the same thing.. the opportunity to play in college. So 97% attend practice the majority of the time and 100% most of the time.

I will testify though, that the system as flawed as it is, has worked for us. And I am like the Dempsey family going to great lengths to give my daughter the best opportunity available. She does not have time for the system to fix itself.

[Guest Newbie]

[quote name="rip2506" post="815271" timestamp="1277846028"]
[quote author=Bon_Mot link=topic=70757.msg815190#msg815190 date=1277823404]
I was totally joking about the Mensa thing.  I was being a wisenheimer because I tend to be a know-it-all with my posts on here. Besides, the only meetings I should be attending are AA.

Along the lines of that "entitled" theme for many of those upper class kids in the big cities is a lack of drive.  If a kid doesn't like his playing time or the team he's on, instead of busting his tail to become a better player or better teammate, he simply goes to another team or mommy and daddy start a coup to get whoever they want replaced.
The trainers at the big clubs are to blame for a lot of this, as well.  Instead of working to get the players on a team better, they will simply scout for better talent from other teams to poach with promises of scholarships or better training with blokes with cooler accents.

For kids who want to get better, figure out when the last time you called a couple of friends and just knocked around or when you worked on skills by yourself. I'm gonna go Glory Days on you now, but when I was in high school I spent countless hours playing "volley ball" onto the roof by myself.  I also had a ball at my feet inside of the house most of the time.  I would dribble wherever I went.
[/quote]

Bon you got me on that one! (the Mensa thing) very interesting though, I told a friend of mine today to take the work out. I got 63% (F) out of the 30 questions this morning when I regrouped to take the test. The fact that you said you played volleyball has me wondering are you a female? The punk kids comments had me believing you were of male persuaion. Just my curiousity getting the best of me. Yes I thought Mensa was a rehab progam?

The system does seem broke, but scouting is easier than working. You are also scouting for the kids that have taking the time to do their homework and improve.

It is hard in this area(Golden Trianlge) to develop a team of premier level playing ability. There is such a variance on commitment level. I wrote tons of emails when I was the assistant coach trying to motivate our players and parents to give more effort and we could become truly great, but many did not have the same vision and was happy with the 3 titles that they had won. No knock on them they were living their lives the way that saw fit. The difference is that All the players on her current team want the same thing.. the opportunity to play in college. So 97% attend practice the majority of the time and 100% most of the time.

I will testify though, that the system as flawed as it is, has worked for us. And I am like the Dempsey family going to great lengths to give my daughter the best opportunity available. She does not have time for the system to fix itself.
[/quote]
Bon would not look good as a female  ;D He never said he played volleyball.  Read it again.  ;)

[Bon_Mot]

[quote name="rip2506" post="815271" timestamp="1277846028"]
It is hard in this area(Golden Trianlge) to develop a team of premier level playing ability.
[/quote]

I disagree with this.  If all of the local clubs would consolidate to form one solid club it could be done. Keep the local clubs as satelites for the young ones because I think neighborhood teams are vital for little kids.  You know your teammates, they can carpool if needed, and the opportunity for spontaneous knock-arounds grows. But once they get to U14 or so, bring em all together and separate the wheat from the chaff so that instead of 4 to 6 teams that are so-so, you have one team that should be very competitive and couple of more that shouldn't be too far behind. I really don't think this area can create more than 3 teams that could go to Houston and compete on a regular basis.

And by "volley ball" I meant that I would play a ball onto our roof, and then when it came down I would try and get it back on the roof within 2 or 3 touches.  I have been call a female several times, though.

[rip2506]

So you used to Volley the ball off the roof.

Read Super Gold Club.... I tried to rally the troops.

Mike Hughes 93G has had the highest level of success of any team that I know of here in the past 12yrs. As successful as it has been, he will tell you to sustain a premier level team, the commitment level has to be raised. The parents and players gave a ton, but to be the top #1 or # 2 team in the eddoa, you need talented totally committed players. Mike started recruiting at age 7 not 14... building chemistry and training with Jorge Cruz, so when they got to U11 they were ready to compete at Div 1.

I think a starting point will be to see what came of the area wide tryouts that were just held. Was there more consolidation or did everyone return to their area teams.

I am not knocking what folks (many volunteers) are doing in this area.... Just questioning the notion that it would be as easy as pulling all the soccer players together to create true premier competitors.... It will be that (the mega merger) then a whole lot of blood, sweat, tears and missing some other sport's practices.  I will concede that there (the merger) is where it needs to start.

[DogOne]

[quote name="Bon_Mot" post="815393" timestamp="1277910135"]
[quote author=rip2506 link=topic=70757.msg815271#msg815271 date=1277846028]
It is hard in this area(Golden Trianlge) to develop a team of premier level playing ability.
[/quote]

I disagree with this.  If all of the local clubs would consolidate to form one solid club it could be done. Keep the local clubs as satelites for the young ones because I think neighborhood teams are vital for little kids.  You know your teammates, they can carpool if needed, and the opportunity for spontaneous knock-arounds grows. But once they get to U14 or so, bring em all together and separate the wheat from the chaff so that instead of 4 to 6 teams that are so-so, you have one team that should be very competitive and couple of more that shouldn't be too far behind. I really don't think this area can create more than 3 teams that could go to Houston and compete on a regular basis.

And by "volley ball" I meant that I would play a ball onto our roof, and then when it came down I would try and get it back on the roof within 2 or 3 touches.  I have been call a female several times, though.

[/quote]

Bon Mot, this last statement abut consolidating the local clubs to form one solid club seems to conflict with your first post where you criticize the "Pay to Play" system that results in too many kids being left out of the process because they can't afford the travel or trainer's fees.  If our area went to one consolidated club, where are the kids that can't afford the travel or training expenses going to play?  I'm not a Mensa member but it seems to me that the more options we can give our kids the better.  If they want to play on a team like Mike Hughes' great but alot of kids aren't willing or able to make that kind of commitment and if there are no other local clubs they're not going to play at all.  Just my two cents.

[bullets13]

i've mentioned this before, but when i was a sophomore i was on a team made of mostly seniors from WB and Kelly, with a few players from other schools in the area.  We lost 1 game all year, going something like 30-1-3.  There's definitely enough talent in this area to make some very competitive teams, it's just a matter of consolidating the talent, and trying to keep our best players from going to Houston (Matt Kirby being a recent example)

[Bon_Mot]

[quote name="DogOne" post="815624" timestamp="1278016353"]
Bon Mot, this last statement abut consolidating the local clubs to form one solid club seems to conflict with your first post where you criticize the "Pay to Play" system that results in too many kids being left out of the process because they can't afford the travel or trainer's fees.  If our area went to one consolidated club, where are the kids that can't afford the travel or training expenses going to play?  I'm not a Mensa member but it seems to me that the more options we can give our kids the better.[/quote]

My opinion on the Pay to Play system is an indictment on the entire USSF and their method of identifying talent for the national team pool. That system won't change unless Klinsman gets the USMNT job, though. Under the current system that we have to work with, I think you have to identify what "success" is. My opinion: I think that means that a club can [i]consistently[/i] compete with the rest of the state at the U14 and up levels.
I think there should be one [u]solid[/u] Director of Trainers for the entire club. Then I think there should be satellites. One for Port Arthur and MidCounty, one for Orange County and anyone north of that, one or two for Beaumont and Lumberton, and one for Hamshire Fannet to Chambers County. Each of these will have an Assistant DOT who meets with the DOT to make sure everyone has the same agenda, and (I believe) that's learning to play soccer - not winning - at the beginner levels. I think by the U14 level, these trainers should be able to identify the talented and comitted players and also be able to assemble one very good team and a couple of other pretty good ones. I also think that these satellites could continue to field teams at the U14 an up levels, but on a less competeve basis with the rest of the state.

[Bon_Mot]

[quote name="DogOne" post="815624" timestamp="1278016353"]
I'm not a Mensa member but it seems to me that the more options we can give our kids the better.  If they want to play on a team like Mike Hughes' great but alot of kids aren't willing or able to make that kind of commitment and if there are no other local clubs they're not going to play at all.  Just my two cents.[/quote]

Like I said, I'm no Mensa member either, but you're talking about a team and I'm talking about a club. This area is not relevant on the state level, but it should be. It's got the numbers to do it, but they are spread out too thin once the kids get to the high school age.

[rip2506]

[quote name="bullets13000" post="815648" timestamp="1278024863"]
i've mentioned this before, but when i was a sophomore i was on a team made of mostly seniors from WB and Kelly, with a few players from other schools in the area.  We lost 1 game all year, going something like 30-1-3.  There's definitely enough talent in this area to make some very competitive teams, it's just a matter of consolidating the talent, and trying to keep our best players from going to Houston (Matt Kirby being a recent example)
[/quote]

Bullets did you play with Matt Kirby?

[rip2506]

[quote name="Bon_Mot" post="815697" timestamp="1278037474"]
[quote author=DogOne link=topic=70757.msg815624#msg815624 date=1278016353]
I'm not a Mensa member but it seems to me that the more options we can give our kids the better.  If they want to play on a team like Mike Hughes' great but alot of kids aren't willing or able to make that kind of commitment and if there are no other local clubs they're not going to play at all.  Just my two cents.[/quote]

Like I said, I'm no Mensa member either, but you're talking about a team and I'm talking about a club. This area is not relevant on the state level, but it should be. It's got the numbers to do it, but they are spread out too thin once the kids get to the high school age.
[/quote]

Bon, I Believe that SSSC Head Trainer would agree with you that there is too much put on winning at an early age over player development. I also think that he believes that there is enough density of players with all the areas you just mentioned to field some very competitive teams, however the trouble is getting everyone on the same sheet of music.
To clarify when I said mega merger I was not implying merge the clubs, but funnel the best players to the best team of that age bracket as you described.
I like your idea!

[bullets13]

[quote name="rip2506" post="815992" timestamp="1278186839"]
[quote author=bullets13000 link=topic=70757.msg815648#msg815648 date=1278024863]
i've mentioned this before, but when i was a sophomore i was on a team made of mostly seniors from WB and Kelly, with a few players from other schools in the area.  We lost 1 game all year, going something like 30-1-3.  There's definitely enough talent in this area to make some very competitive teams, it's just a matter of consolidating the talent, and trying to keep our best players from going to Houston (Matt Kirby being a recent example)
[/quote]

Bullets did you play with Matt Kirby?
[/quote]

no, he's younger than me, but he's a good example of the type of players we lose to houston.

[DogOne]

[quote name="Bon_Mot" post="815393" timestamp="1277910135"]
[quote author=rip2506 link=topic=70757.msg815271#msg815271 date=1277846028]
It is hard in this area(Golden Trianlge) to develop a team of premier level playing ability.
[/quote]

I disagree with this.  If all of the local clubs would consolidate to form one solid club it could be done. Keep the local clubs as satelites for the young ones because I think neighborhood teams are vital for little kids.  You know your teammates, they can carpool if needed, and the opportunity for spontaneous knock-arounds grows. [b]But once they get to U14 or so, bring em all together and separate the wheat from the chaff[/b] so that instead of 4 to 6 teams that are so-so, you have one team that should be very competitive and couple of more that shouldn't be too far behind. I really don't think this area can create more than 3 teams that could go to Houston and compete on a regular basis.

And by "volley ball" I meant that I would play a ball onto our roof, and then when it came down I would try and get it back on the roof within 2 or 3 touches.  I have been call a female several times, though.
[/quote]

Once you separate the wheat form the chaff, what happens to the chaff?  What does the 13 year old kid do when he or she is told that they aren't good enough to be on one of the "solid club's" teams?  What do the 15-45 kids that are left over do when you reduce the 4 to 6 so-so teams down to 3 teams that could go to Houston and compete on a regular basis?  Do they just quit playing soccer?  Remember, after consolidation, there are no teams for them at the local clubs.

[Bon_Mot]

[quote name="DogOne" post="816055" timestamp="1278218871"]
Once you separate the wheat form the chaff, what happens to the chaff?  What does the 13 year old kid do when he or she is told that they aren't good enough to be on one of the "solid club's" teams?  What do the 15-45 kids that are left over do when you reduce the 4 to 6 so-so teams down to 3 teams that could go to Houston and compete on a regular basis?  Do they just quit playing soccer?  Remember, after consolidation, there are no teams for them at the local clubs.
[/quote]

[quote author=Bon_Mot link=topic=70757.msg815691#msg815691 date=1278035665]
I think by the U14 level, these trainers should be able to identify the talented and comitted players and also be able to assemble one very good team and a couple of other pretty good ones.[b] I also think that these satellites could continue to field teams at the U14 an up levels, but on a less competeve basis with the rest of the state.[/b]
[/quote]
I don't think you and I want the same thing at all. I might be way off, but it seems like you would be happy with a glorified rec league consisting of all of the local communities. I think by the age of 14, if a kid wants to continue playing but couldn't make one of the upper echelon teams, he could play for his high school team or like I said play rec.

[Bon_Mot]

Here's a good article on how the Germans revamped their entire youth system and reinvented itself:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/soccer/world-cup-2010/writers/raphael_honigstein/07/01/germany.reinvention/index.html

It talks a little about the strategy of the national team and how, ironically, a lack of money in the Bundesliga actually helped the national team.  It also addresses their long-term goals and shows forsight that focuses on development at the youth level.

Some of the hi-lites:

[i]All across the country, 121 national talent centers would be built to help 10- to 17-year-olds with technical practice. Each center would employ two full-time coaches at a cost of $15.6 million over five years. The second key point was a new requirement for all 36 professional clubs in Bundesliga and Bundesliga 2 to build youth academies.[/i]
[i]Whereas youth coaches would traditionally stress stamina and physical endurance, the new crop of highly qualified coaches is more interested in developing technical ability.[/i]
[i]"We start with the U-9s. They play four-a-side, on small pitches, to encourage individual skills," Albeck said. "We then add players every year, only the U-13s are playing with full teams."[/i]

[rip2506]

[quote name="Bon_Mot" post="816568" timestamp="1278516845"]
Here's a good article on how the Germans revamped their entire youth system and reinvented itself:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/soccer/world-cup-2010/writers/raphael_honigstein/07/01/germany.reinvention/index.html

It talks a little about the strategy of the national team and how, ironically, a lack of money in the Bundesliga actually helped the national team.  It also addresses their long-term goals and shows forsight that focuses on development at the youth level.

Some of the hi-lites:

[i]All across the country, 121 national talent centers would be built to help 10- to 17-year-olds with technical practice. Each center would employ two full-time coaches at a cost of $15.6 million over five years. The second key point was a new requirement for all 36 professional clubs in Bundesliga and Bundesliga 2 to build youth academies.[/i]
[i]Whereas youth coaches would traditionally stress stamina and physical endurance, the new crop of highly qualified coaches is more interested in developing technical ability.[/i]
[i]"We start with the U-9s. They play four-a-side, on small pitches, to encourage individual skills," Albeck said. "We then add players every year, only the U-13s are playing with full teams."[/i]

[/quote]

Good Stuff Bon... but don't you think we should adopt the Spanish Model since they are still in the Cup!  Sorry I just could not help myself... The German Record speaks for itself. I think by the German's loosing it may clear the way for the Netherlands to win their first Cup... Should be a great match.

p.s. I think the new indoor soccer arena may work towards this goal of more small sided games with more frequent touches in smaller areas. My daughter and I like playing on those tiny fields at the Meadows. It's amazing how tired you can get transitioning quickly from offense to defense and back to offense again.. This was part of our preseason workout for SSSC93 when I was an assistant with Mike.