bullets13

But as the law often shows, different standards and outcomes occur in different situations. For example, if I break down your door and kill you, I'm charged with murder. If you break down MY door and I kill you, although the outcome is exactly the same, I'm charged with nothing. The same holds true for abortion vs. murdering a woman and her fetus. So while it's a legal issue, as you say, abortion falls on the legal side of the issue, while murdering a pregnant woman is illegal.

As i've stated earlier in this thread, I'm not a fan of abortion, but the threshold where I personally feel it should be illegal is when the baby could be viable outside of the womb. so around 18-20 weeks, even though the odds of survival outside of the womb at that point are almost nil. That gives a mother time to realize she's pregnant before the opportunity make a choice runs out, while preventing a baby which could possibly survive on it's own from being killed. An exception for anything later than that would be for health risks to the mother only.

great win!

This is the crux of the issue entirely. And it's been determined by the high courts that abortion is a moral issue rather than a legal one, although obviously some states are challenging that.

I literally said "That doesn't mean it's okay" in the very short post that you quoted when asking this question.

Would “breaking and entering” be the crime she would’ve/could’ve been charged with here?

I think it wasn’t a crime when it was legal. That doesn’t mean it was “ok.” The difference is that, as society progressed, your examples were made illegal, while abortion was made legal (during very conservative times, it’s worth mentioning)

Romans 13?

It's not a crime in my eyes because the law says it isn't. I do believe it's sin, but there's lot of sin that we all do that isn't criminal.

I totally get all this, and honestly don't have a big disagreement with any of it.

I know it may seem like I'm some big proponent of abortion. It's not something that I like, but it's legal, and making it illegal would cause tremendous problems that most conservatives want to gloss over or ignore. It's very easy for a bunch of men to sit around and talk about what a woman should have to do with her own body and what's in it. It's also easy when we don't ever have to worry about accidently getting pregnant, or getting raped and getting pregnant, or having birth control fail and getting pregnant, or getting pregnant and having it cause life-threatening medical issues. My wife has a friend who had a bunch of abortions. She'd just get knocked up every year or two and then go terminate it. I lost all respect for her because of it. That said, I have a friend who's 15-year-old got pregnant, and they chose to terminate it. I looked at it differently.

So when does life begin? Catholics believe it's a sin to use birth control. Is it murder if you take a pill to kill your eggs? If you wear a rubber and keep your boys from swimming? What about when you spend a little time with yourself? Just curious? Do you have a problem with the morning after pill?

Just because you disagree with them, doesn't make them paper thin. You have yet to tell he how we're going to afford these extra 800,000 mouths a year, and where we're going to house them. It's not a crime.

We both know what happens the majority of the time. Just making a point.

what if a young couple is being responsible and using birth control and it fails? it happens.

I like the whole "you messed up one night, be accountable for 18 years" argument. Especially when you drop it on a teenager. Abortion is a legal method for being accountable, versus having the child and expecting others to raise it or pay for it. Again, here's an example of the typical conservative view on abortion: it's an outrage for tax payers to pay for abortions, but it's also an outrage for tax payers to pay for children on welfare.

I have two adopted daughters, btw. Glad your family found loving homes. Mine did as well. There are plenty out there who do not. Trust me, I've been deeply involved in the foster care system for the last 3 years.

my statistics come from the over 800,000 abortions a year in the US. Do these kids suddenly become wanted when brought to term? As for kids in orphanages and foster care, is there a difference to you between a 3 year old child and an 8-week-old embryo that's the size of a bean? There is to me. But you do bring up a good point about orphanages and foster care... there already aren't enough qualified and adequate homes for children in need of foster care. Where are all of these new kids going to go?

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. It's been legal for a long time, well before our country moved from ultra conservative to ultra liberal. Personally, I don't have an issue with a woman choosing to end her pregnancy when the embryo is still the size of a lima bean, and not even close to viable outside of the womb. I have a major issue with partial birth abortions, and abortions where the embryo is developed enough to be viable. If you have an issue with that, that's perfectly fine, and I respect your reasoning behind that. All that being said, this thread is a perfect representation of how things go in the real world: conservatives are pro-life, and rabidly against abortion, but can offer no solutions as to what will be done with all of these unwanted children when they're born. Most of them don't want to pay for the fallout, and almost none of them are going to take a couple of these kids into their home.

Totally agree with all of this. I'd also like to get younger kids access to birth control. I feel a lot differently about a 15-year-old getting an abortion vs. a 25-year-old. Part of the issue is that the same contingent of conservative folks that are against abortions are also against birth control for teens because they feel it encourages sexual activity. That has changed some, but it's still definitely an issue.

I'd love to see it, but I doubt it. Everything aligned perfectly this week. This was the first tourney he'd really been competitive in all year. That said, he's definitely held up better than most older golfers, so I guess you never know. He was still posting some pretty impressive results as recently as 2018 and 2019.

"Although the emergence of the novel coronavirus now known as SARS-CoV-2 was probably not due to China’s actions, the emphasis that its authoritarian system places on hiding bad news likely gave the disease a sizable head start infecting the world." I don't think it's even debatable that China caused this to get out of hand by hiding the virus until it was already well on it's way to being established all over the world, and underrepresenting it's seriousness. They knew well before the rest of the world that it was going to kill a lot of people, and how contagious it is. They lied about those numbers, and still do.

I respect your beliefs. As I've stated before, abortions aren't something I'm a fan of, but I do see them as a necessity in some situations. That said, excuses or not, what is your solution to taking care of all of these unwanted babies? I just looked it up, and there are over 800,000 abortions a year in the USA. So where do we put 2.4 million children under the age of 3? Or 9.6 million unwanted children under the age of 12? You can't tell a parent that they have to keep them after you won't let them abort them. Who's going to pay for these children? I know enough republicans (I'm one of them) who gripe about having to support kids who are with their biological mothers and on welfare because their parents can't afford them. What about when taxes are necessary to pay for the entire raising of kids from birth to 18 in federal or state care, with an average of 12-15M kids in care at any given time?

easy to say, but not as easy to make happen. for every unwanted baby that finds a loving home through adoption there are countless more that end up in horrible homes, foster care, or worse. Having gone through the adoption process, I can attest to the fact that there are lots of brand new babies available, and for only $20-30K, one can be yours! That said, add 500,000 unwanted babies a year into the mix, and it's gonna take about a month before you run out of homes for those babies. Then what, open state run orphanages? Federal orphanages? It's been my experience that the folks who care the most about unwanted, unborn fetuses are also the least interested in supporting those fetuses with their tax dollars after they're born. Most of them aren't lining up to take in other people's infants, either.

1000%. protest is fine, but when you're burning things you lose your credibility. When you stop emergency vehicles from responding to calls you lose your credibility. When you destroy your own neighborhoods you lose your credibility. When you're so upset about something that you feel the need to break into stores and do your christmas shopping, you lose credibility.