TeamJagUS

ok seriously, the horns are at the crossroads. finally completely unwound, i can't imagine they could get any lower than this. huffman wins by 9. as the song goes maybe "you got to lose to know how to win". not that huffman was just terrible, they weren't, but they were 3-17 for a reason (2 of those against a to date winless caney creek team), they are beatable by a reasonably sound basketball team. [b]the horns have gone from a pre season potential cinderella to the ugly sister cousin date to the ball.[/b] you could play this whole thing off as one bad game but unless you've lived under a rock around here you could see this one coming. one could play the "don't get down on the kids" card all day, but these are young men, they're old enough to recognize and deal with adversity and they're not babies, they understand theres a problem. it not entirely their fault, or the coaches, or the system, or the parents or fans or referees for gosh sake. it's everybody's fault, but we'll leave the ref's out of it cuz well lets face it, you just never know how that's gonna work out  ;D . it will take some serious introspection by all principles involved to stir this listing bovine, simply put it starts with ME, no matter who i am in that sphere of influence. it's not pompous rhetoric or some new magic formula, its the age old corny and childishly obvious "team before me" philosophy, it seems silly to even have to reference something that should be so painfully obvious here. but whether you're a coach who believes steadfastly in your diagrams or the player that dreams of being the game changer, or the fan who coaches from the cheap seats (and now that's gotten to the point of a small few that would call for the heads of the coaches and any players they don't deem worthy and not very privately-[b]and hey guys, don't listen to that racket[/b]) the turnaround starts with the guy in the mirror. SIDENOTE:UKCats I apologize for my defensive nature over your comments about the fans last week-since then I've seen some of the behavior you must have been referring to-i do have my reasons but we'll discuss those in pm or person if needed. its been said this is the most talent ttown has seen in awhile, i don't know about that it may be true but i believe this-winning teams that can play competitively with [b]whoever[/b] they face are not usually rooted in sheer talent alone (look at last years cowboys  :o ). its the guy who makes somebody else better, maybe even "better" than ones self that is the true game changer and it snowballs from there. with all due respect to those (maybe all 14) who may undoubtedly be offended if they read this, tonights game made it painfully obvious that there is no one man show in ttown in any aspect of the game. even a win pulled out of that cataclysm would have been ugly (reference the shepherd game). i've seen these "kids" play and every single one of them does something well and every single one has shortcomings (no surprise announcement there). but whether it's scoring, making sure somebody else scores or at least has the opportunity, making sure the other team doesn't, or cheering for the whole team no matter what 5 pair of shoes hit the floor, it's all important whether you're coaching, playing or fanning. sure it's the coaches job to oversee that operation but that's a complicated business and where the rubber meets the road each principle (including but not limited to the guys who actually PLAY) has to decide what they're willing to [i][b]give up[/b][/i] and adapt to make it happen for his fellow, and ultimately the team. this ain't hippie love peace and hope talk, its tried and true philosophy that works, it may even involve a leap of faith but i put this question to you, what do i have to lose? and it ain't about who i eat lunch with or sit with or who i like or don't like or making a point it's about [b]BASKETBALL[/b]. everybody starts acting that way and things will get a whole lot better in cattle country because they DO have a fine talent pool. i should emphasize that i'm not bashing anybody, the coaches (it's a tough job), their system, or players (maybe a few fans a little  8) ) adaptability is key, when it works, use it, when it don't, lose it, that's true of life and basketball. whatever the horns have got now ain't working as a whole (crown me mr. obvious). the good news is that in these coals of adversity, champions, however you define that, [i]can[/i] be be forged, it's entirely up to them whether they wither into their individual elements or meld into a solid representation and finish this strong. maybe then we'll see if you really have to lose to know how to win, and whether or not they'll help each other float or ALL go down together. it seems pretty darn simple to me. am i missing something?

i predict that no one will make a prediction before the game starts, then i predict that it will not be a fun game for ttowners to watch, wait, thats not a prediction but an observation

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="747345" timestamp="1264086804"] dang! I knew Cleveland was good but I didn't think ColdSpring would be this bad. [/quote] ok, yall ain't understanding just how good cleveland is, are they possibly the yates of 3a?  ;D, i'm waiting for the yates vs. cleveland thread to pop up... ::)

[quote name="UKCats" post="744949" timestamp="1263678190"] [quote author=scooby link=topic=64767.msg744766#msg744766 date=1263627643] [b]BTW, little league basketball starts in Tarkington later today. Each player will play 2 quarters regardless of ability, preparation, or effort. I agree we need to get rid of that "little league mindset" as you put it.[/b] Cleveland is a fun team to watch but I agree that playing games that are basically not very competitive will hurt them come playoff time. I still think they will do very well in the playoffs and the entertainment level in those games will be high. [/quote] I assume that this means you have a kid that plays for Tarkington and you don't think they get as much playing time as they should. Actually when you bring preparation into it it sounds like you may be present at practice. . .so either you are a coach there yourself or you are speaking of things you know nothing about. UNLESS Tarkington has open gym practices??? [/quote] actually you're pretty far off, and i don't give a rats rump who does the job as long as it gets done, but a public forum ain't the place for this, pretty sure most folks aren't interested, i'm losing interest myself but i'll note that you are the one who called out the fans in a "side note" and i was simply responding to that, i didn't initiate this by bashing anybody, in fact i wasn't going to chime in at all until your side note. the forum is for entertainment, information, education, and OPINION among other things, you stated yours and i stated mine (in a rather watered down fashion). if it's not constructive it's not worth my time or yours. if you feel the need then get your last word in because i've said mine on the subject unless there's something constructive to gain here. thanks for your input anyhow.

[quote name="Hupernikomen" post="744809" timestamp="1263659169"] As far as little league is concerned giving a 6-10 year old a chance to play sounds like a fairly good idea to me. [/quote] of course it is,  but there are no 6-10 year old kids playing high school basketball.

[quote name="UKCats" post="744724" timestamp="1263622006"] SIDE NOTE: I have been to two Tarkington games, Tarkington/New Waverly & Tarkington/Cleveland. TARKINGTON FANS, GET A GRIP! Best I can tell based on past performance this is the best team Tarkington has had in several years, but the fans are about as negative toward the coaching staff as fans come. They complain about the defense and the playing time. Cheer for kids as individuals and not the team as a whole. It's really depressing to hear. The bottom line is these kids are pretty good when they show up. But after watching them play NW to 8 and then the blow out tonight, sometimes the kids play really hard and other times they just give up. If they come to play I say they can take second in their district, but if they don't I believe Liberty could take 'em. I just hope their fans can get on board with the coaching staff and pump these kids up to play hard and finish the season with a possible playoff opportunity. Come on now guys, if you know so much about the game then apply for the job and get rid of that little leage mindset  :-\ [/quote] I wasn't aware there was an opening. I almost took the bait and editorialized on the uninformed comments you make but the forums is no place for that, some of the kids read this stuff... Cleveland is good, very good, and they deserve credit for that, but not 62 points better than Tarkington from a pure talent standpoint. From all the comments made on here to the tune of "well, it was Tarkington after all" one would think some people believe Tarkington is some place where all the athletic rejects go. Do you think "our" kids are genetically inferior? That the water or nutrition in Tarkington is poor? That they should be satisfied with "going" to the playoffs and if they get drummed by the likes of Silsbee, Hj or whoever then thats good enough? What do you think the REAL difference is? You may want to do some thinking on that before you start taking mischaracterizing pot shots at "the fans" for being frustrated. BTW, little league basketball starts in Tarkington later today. Each player will play 2 quarters regardless of ability, preparation, or effort. I agree we need to get rid of that "little league mindset" as you put it. Cleveland is a fun team to watch but I agree that playing games that are basically not very competitive will hurt them come playoff time. I still think they will do very well in the playoffs and the entertainment level in those games will be high.

[quote name="CATMAN" post="739680" timestamp="1262837763"] Coldspring---------by----------20 ;D ;D ;D [/quote] catman i must now eat crow  :-[ , CS by 23, 75-52 after their first meeting i had said CS played "clean and hard", looking back maybe the "clean" part of that was mis-perception based on having just seen the Horns play another "H" team that usually makes a new york mugging look like a group hug at a red hat convention. CS played hard still, give 'em that, but clean???....ehhhh, nawsomuch. now they did win fair and square don't get me wrong, nobody in ttown should think they were cheated unless somebody was saran wrapping the rim between timeouts.....not in the varsity BOYS game anyway....now in the other games of the evening, lets just say that one would think adults would act like adults especially if they're given the responsibility of being impartial and i'm not just referring to those in uniform. ttowners better hope that the Horns make some adjustments soon or it's gonna be another long cold winter in the flatland. they did do a much better job of not turning the ball over as much tonight and they got plenty of misspent looks, but defensively it's hard to defend 3 on 2 and 2 on 1 under the goal time after time. when the shooters are struggling the defensive plan better be spot on and effective....or somebody is gonna be eating crow-i'll take mine well done.

who wins between yates and the 70's globetrotters? or the early 80's dallas cowboy cheerleaders? charlie's angels? what about the football titans from the movie?

[quote name="CATMAN" post="739680" timestamp="1262837763"] Coldspring---------by----------20 ;D ;D ;D [/quote] that won't happen, if the Horns play their game reasonably well and keep the right personnel on the floor MOST of the time this [i]could[/i] be a real statement game for them. no two games between teams is ever the same but the first time they met (Goodrich tournament) it took a near cataclysmic meltdown by the Horns for CS to stay in the game with them (credit where credit is due, CS hung in there to give themselves a chance in the end which they capitalized on). Horns big guy is back in earnest and he is a force (when he's on the floor not the bench), CS is quick but the Horns are to a man very athletic too. they didn't show that athleticism as much in the EC tourney [i]supposedly[/i] because there was concern they wouldn't be able to press for 6 games in 3 days after the break (they were off for 9, count 'em nine days between their last game and the tourney start on Monday). if their shooters hit a rhythm, watch out...they put up 88 at the expense of Houston Heights Tuesday night, and that wasn't exactly shooting the lights out, they have 100+ pt. potential. they do also tend to give up alot of pts in a fast game though. games are played on the court not the forums so i don't have a "prediction" other than i think the Horns are poised to surprise alot of folks, it's up to them to deliver. IF CS has an edge its where they play and even that won't be enough if the Horns bring their A or even B+ game. It's certainly not worth 20 pts., give the kids some credit, they're pretty darn good.

i predict that each team will score more than twice the temperature (in F) at tip off  :D correction, i just checked the forecast, make that 3 times the temp......

[quote name="whsalum" post="734691" timestamp="1261632291"] Shooting form is an art that is learned from hours and hours of repetition in the gym.Most kids now have so much more to do that they won't put in the time it takes to become a pure shooter.It sure makes you appreciate a pure shooter when you see one. [/quote] Agreed, and alot of what the "have" to do they don't "[i]have[/i]" to do. Game consoles, ipods, facebook and on and on. I know some people will argue that some of the "games" they play do teach strategy, but thats not even close to a wash. I can just see Pistol Pete with his face glued to a DS instead of practicing his touch on a bank shot. It's not talent, its work ethic, really play ethic because kids used to play for entertainment, and [i]some[/i] still do, it's just not as common I don't think. I wonder when the 20 billion dollar government funded study will be released to show the effects...... In 3a and smaller schools its hard to specialize, only so many athletes to go around. Even universal offseason (formally known as hay hauling, fence building, yard mowing, etc.) hasn't solved that problem, or has it?

Tarkington topped Shepherd in a sqeaker 60-58 Friday night

[quote name="LAZEEK" post="730382" timestamp="1260826770"] [quote author=Karma link=topic=63793.msg730381#msg730381 date=1260826676] Anyone know which of the players Cleveland lost to transfer last year?  They were my pick to make a run at state this year. [/quote] one of the guards or wing players............he went to Atascocita and was their QB as well!!! [/quote] the transfer was who they call "chaz", i think his name is earnest carrington, pretty sure he played the 4, good solid player and probably as important, that group had been together for awhile. they were fantastic in the 7th grade, totally blew my mind the first time i saw them play, i swear they could have hung with alot of varsity teams back then (not exaggerating). their "competition" has gotten [i]proportionally[/i] better through the years because these kids were so good (and BIG) back then, but these guys are still darn good. they lost chaz but picked up a transfer from splendora, a 6'4" "shooter" who is a threat from the perimeter. it doesn't seem they're having much trouble scoring. alot can happen in the course of a season. theres the things that all programs deal with, grades, injuries, coaching, personalities, all of which i have no insight on, but as far as raw talent there is definitely some lightning in a bottle in C-town.

[quote name="Socrates" post="729318" timestamp="1260678291"] Anyone know a score from the championship game? [/quote] CS 71 Tark 69, CS hit two clutch free throws with a little over 3 seconds left after a blocking call on a lane drive. This game could have gone either way but CS deserved to win, they played clean and hard, alot of hussle by both teams but in the end they got the shots to win after being down by 14 at one point. CS scored ALOT on steals and there were several times that steals prevented the Horns from getting even one shot on a possession. It's hard to score without shooting. It is obvious they were not ready to play against that kind of speed/quickness and it put them out of their game in a hurry in the 2nd half. It should be an interesting matchup in district play...

[quote name="Cowboy4jc" post="727953" timestamp="1260510628"] [quote author=thescore96 link=topic=63556.msg726815#msg726815 date=1260335820]       Hey everyone just to clear up...no I was not complaining bout the refs at all. Some are good. Some aren't. My complaint was with some coaching decisions. The refs had a bad night but that was one night and I still pointed out that it was equal. [b]I made a little joke about HJ but come on get a grip.[/b] It was a joke. And so is the basketball program at Orangefield at the moment if you're wondering. The fact that they ARE irrelevant is kind of my point. These same kids have been competing with everyone since they were in little dribblers. Now they look like they can't stay on the floor w/some of the same teams...... I just can't understand why so many ppl posted on something that didn't involve their schools at all. Sorry for the confusion. I'll try to be more sensitive next time I post on HJSPORTS.COM.       [/quote] Good point, however, its not the smartest idea to walk into a bar and scream, "bikers are gay." It never ends well when a man attacks a large group of people lol, strength in numbers. [/quote] what if it's a bar for gay bikers?  ;D

Now that tournament season is upon us in earnest I was wondering what the customary gate fee is, specifically for kids (students). I was unpleasantly unamused that at the Goodrich tournament the fee was $4 adult or kid, with the off hand explanation that "well that's what other places are charging". I know that the purpose of tournaments is to "raise money", and it costs money to put one on, but considering that most little kids are along for the ride why would I pay more for the privilege of having my youngster pester the hell out of me about money for the concession? And on top of that is the obligatory "no reentry without repaying" sign, what has happened to common sense? What next, charging the players to get in to play? I know some will say "if you can't afford it don't go" (which I won't be taking the "students" back, so in the end the sponsors actually loose revenue, gate and concession), or "its not that much so who cares" but I gotta say that for me it was not that long ago that it would have been a real problem over the course of several tournaments and for some it may still be (especially in this economy as we've become fond of saying). Seems like schools should be interested in being reasonable with their charges instead of trying to squeeze every filthy dollar out of you they possibly can, I assume the person(s) who made that decision were neither economists or particularly sensitive to current economic pressures. When is enough enough? Geez at least offer a reduced cost 3 day pass to ensure your revenue. I don't mind contributing, but as someone once said "I don't mind a guy making a living, I just don't want him making ALL off of me". Maybe the idea is to discourage attendance or future participation? I've seen this kind of greed before in baseball "all stars" and select ball, maybe its polluting the schools now too. I was very surprised when we went to see our nephews play in Sour Lake's Pony tournament a couple of years ago, charges were very reasonable, I was happy to pay and dump some cash in the concessions too, probably spent more in the end but felt like it was reasonable AND had a good time AND recommended going to others. Is anybody charging $10 a head yet?  ::) And yeah I'm a cheap sonuvagun, but just cuz I can afford it don't mean I'm gonna pay it. Interested in what other places charge and other opinions, which all of this is JUST MINE.

[quote name="baseball25" post="727761" timestamp="1260490697"] Hardin 4-4 missed twenty freethrows.   Tarkington goes 8-1 on yr [/quote] Any idea how many Tarkington missed? It was a bunch, and layups. It was an ugly game except in very small spots. Add to that all the cursing and trash talking some of the players were doing, may be part of the game but some people don't know when to shut up and just play. It's especially bad when one of those players is obviously talented, the kind of kid you'd like to root for no matter what side he's on, but then you see that.....

[quote name="no-look" post="722121" timestamp="1259728499"] ? [/quote] Tarkington 80-66 or 68, can't remember exactly

[quote name="stevenash" post="710691" timestamp="1258475052"] [quote author=PVT Ryan link=topic=61413.msg710641#msg710641 date=1258471915] Place blame where you want, but respect is earned thru hard work and winning results.  [/quote] The hard work, of which you speak, needs to be in the sport where excellence is pursued, as opposed to a "good for everybody" regimen [/quote] i take it from your post(s) that HF must be have some sort of offseason routine that concentrates on more or less generic weight training/conditioning? i didn't catch the sarcasm earlier, but you've referenced it several more times more or less sarcastically...

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="717867" timestamp="1259211516"] [quote author=scooby link=topic=62957.msg717857#msg717857 date=1259209729] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=62957.msg717597#msg717597 date=1259182695] [quote author=Sloe link=topic=62957.msg717280#msg717280 date=1259122219] [quote author=HoopInsider_Cooper link=topic=62957.msg717267#msg717267 date=1259121648] Tark..86-68 [/quote]wow bludove won't be happy [/quote] I'm still trying find out what happened in the game. And nobody is saying a thing.  I don't expect miracles from the team but they must have run into a buzz saw in those woods up there. [/quote] read the other thread . whats with this "in the woods" thing, we say sticks, boonies, i mean theres some trees around but we're not like a third world country over here....well, come to think of it maybe parts are [/quote]Sorry Scooby, I've only seen the sign to Tarkington but never knew where it was located. 86 points is a lot of points in high school. Boys had to have been running all  4 qtrs. :D [/quote] 8) lol, no apology necessary, we get that alot. i'm surprised we've got a sign

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="717597" timestamp="1259182695"] [quote author=Sloe link=topic=62957.msg717280#msg717280 date=1259122219] [quote author=HoopInsider_Cooper link=topic=62957.msg717267#msg717267 date=1259121648] Tark..86-68 [/quote]wow bludove won't be happy [/quote] I'm still trying find out what happened in the game. And nobody is saying a thing.  I don't expect miracles from the team but they must have run into a buzz saw in those woods up there. [/quote] read the other thread . whats with this "in the woods" thing, we say sticks, boonies, i mean theres some trees around but we're not like a third world country over here....well, come to think of it maybe parts are

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="716723" timestamp="1259039456"] I think that was the very first time that I have attended a basketball game where one of the teams had ZERO fans. Zilch, nada, big goose egg. I would have thought at least 4 or 5 Cleveland folks would have shown, but never expected for them to have ZERO fans at any game. [/quote] Zero??? For real? Maybe fans are road weary from football playoffs, doesn't sound like the kids were affected much, thats one heck of a group.