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Bridge City ineligible player ???

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53 minutes ago, SWAT34 said:

Nope not all should be forgiven. Kids are punished by a coward adult is how I look at it. You may see different...each can have their own opinion.

Amen Rake 1! Couldn't have said it better.

Wrong. IF the kids are punished it will be because of a coaches decision about a rule. He is the one responsible for the team and knowing the rules. I'm sure there are different results for different rules broken according to UIL. It's a wait and see now. 

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Hopefully an appropriate and fair ruling can be made. Seems that different levels of severity should be in place for different violations...using your best pitcher too many innings/pitches should carry higher penalty than letting a sub-varsity kid suit up as possible courtesy runner for 18 games instead of 17 games. Or letting your D1 3-hole hitter play after failing should be punished more than letting a sub-varsity kid suit up for 18 games instead of 17.

Looking at standings, seems like only 1 team would really get kicked in the gut if BC has to forfeit for letting a sub-varsity kid suit up as courtesy runner for 1 too many games. Top 3 teams would still be in playoffs, but handing Silsbee that win would put HF in a tough spot, all due to a sub-varsity kid suiting up as courtesy runner for 1 too many games...and the way the schedule fell. If it was 1 game earlier, When BC played HF, then HF would get that automatic win. Or maybe that sub-varsity kid was the difference in beating HF the game before : /

Anyway, just seems that a sensible thought process should be used in this egregious situation. Maybe suspend coach for a game or 3, but don’t punish kids that have been fighting all year for playoffs. Let the athletes settle it on the field...baseball gods never lie!! 

 

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Rules are rules. You break them and get caught, you get the punishment given. Does that necessarily mean the rule was broken intentionally or the coaches were aware? No one will ever know. But same goes for traffic violations. How many traffic laws or “rules” have all of us broke that we weren’t aware we were breaking or didn’t realize it at the time, but if you got pulled over you still got the ticket or a warning? Bottom line is, a rule was broken and there may or may not be a punishment coming. Everyone can give their two cents, which is exactly what several people on this board love doing, just don’t get all upset if someone says something you don’t like or want to hear! 

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2 hours ago, Baba Ganoush32 said:

Hopefully an appropriate and fair ruling can be made. Seems that different levels of severity should be in place for different violations...using your best pitcher too many innings/pitches should carry higher penalty than letting a sub-varsity kid suit up as possible courtesy runner for 18 games instead of 17 games. Or letting your D1 3-hole hitter play after failing should be punished more than letting a sub-varsity kid suit up for 18 games instead of 17.

Looking at standings, seems like only 1 team would really get kicked in the gut if BC has to forfeit for letting a sub-varsity kid suit up as courtesy runner for 1 too many games. Top 3 teams would still be in playoffs, but handing Silsbee that win would put HF in a tough spot, all due to a sub-varsity kid suiting up as courtesy runner for 1 too many games...and the way the schedule fell. If it was 1 game earlier, When BC played HF, then HF would get that automatic win. Or maybe that sub-varsity kid was the difference in beating HF the game before : /

Anyway, just seems that a sensible thought process should be used in this egregious situation. Maybe suspend coach for a game or 3, but don’t punish kids that have been fighting all year for playoffs. Let the athletes settle it on the field...baseball gods never lie!! 

 

I agree 100%.  Rules are rules and some punishment needs to be handed down, just not on the kids, in my opinion.  Having said all of that, I would question whether or not a courtesy runner is "in the game."  Since he is a courtesy runner, he didn't start, and non-starters are not allowed to re-enter a game once he is pulled.  A courtesy runner is still eligible to enter the game after running; therefore, in my opinion, that player has not "entered" the game officially and thus the game should not count toward the total games played.

 

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23 hours ago, BC87 said:

I agree 100%.  Rules are rules and some punishment needs to be handed down, just not on the kids, in my opinion.  Having said all of that, I would question whether or not a courtesy runner is "in the game."  Since he is a courtesy runner, he didn't start, and non-starters are not allowed to re-enter a game once he is pulled.  A courtesy runner is still eligible to enter the game after running; therefore, in my opinion, that player has not "entered" the game officially and thus the game should not count toward the total games played.

 

But using that same logic that he is not "in" the game, should the stolen base or run he scores count if he is not "in" the game?  Obviously it does and in a big game a fast courtesy runner being put in for a slow pitcher or catcher can completely change the outcome, so it has to count as participating.

 

Now I know that none of the outcomes of the BC games would have been any different, they have been beating everybody soundly!  But that may not be the case next year with any team in the area, and if there is no punishment handed down it sets a precedent that you should be able to break rules with no punishment for the future.  Now, do I think having to forfeit the games is a little harsh, absolutely.  But something has to be done to make sure everyone follows rules that are put in place for a reason.

 

Just my two cents which mean absolutely nothing!

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What is the punishment for this UIL rule violation? Does the UIL have a punishment in place for said violation or does the UIL leave it up to the District Committee to hand down the punishment. If it is left up to the District Committee and they hand down a punishment of a coaches suspension for how ever long is that going to deter any coach from doing it again so he can get a win? What is a strong enough punishment so this UIL rule not be broken again? Is it "hay I got suspended for a few games" or is it having to look in your players eyes knowing what you have done?  I don't know the number of games involved or the teams they may be involved, just rumors. I know that a precedent will be set by the UIL or District Committee and the next time this violation happens the one that breaks the rule will come back to this ruling. 

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I have an idea..........Screw the rules. Just play back yard sandlot baseball and let the players call their own balls, strikes, outs. heck sounds some people even think its OK to have ghost runners! LOL  Rules are rules and as bad is it sounds/hearsay or whatever, punishments will take place and its unfortunate. I have no dog in this fight but I do have experience breaking the rules and a harsh punishment caused my team not to advance to the next level. Sounds like we will all know just how severe Tuesday. Tough on the kids and heck the coach may/may not even knew what happened. 

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Absolutely nobody wins in this situation, that’s the only thing I know to be true. The offending program will receive a just punishment of some sort according to rules which will in turn affect coaches and players in some way.  The program who anonymously reported the infraction will eventually be found out and they will suffer as well in the court of public opinion and with their relationships with other schools. If the report was done with some sort of malicious intent to gain advantage that school has done nothing but place a giant bullseye on their own back for the future. 

In keeping with the “unwritten rules of baseball” that I personally hold so dear where the game polices itself, I wouldn’t be surprised if BC gets the chance that they score a few “extra runs” on the reporting program in the future either. If it was my team I would blow out a rotator cuff waving in runs from third every chance I got. Like the great line from the movie “Remember the Titans”......

“Herman, leave no doubt!”

 

Rake1

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19 minutes ago, Rake1 said:

Absolutely nobody wins in this situation, that’s the only thing I know to be true. The offending program will receive a just punishment of some sort according to rules which will in turn affect coaches and players in some way.  The program who anonymously reported the infraction will eventually be found out and they will suffer as well in the court of public opinion and with their relationships with other schools. If the report was done with some sort of malicious intent to gain advantage that school has done nothing but place a giant bullseye on their own back for the future. 

In keeping with the “unwritten rules of baseball” that I personally hold so dear where the game polices itself, I wouldn’t be surprised if BC gets the chance that they score a few “extra runs” on the reporting program in the future either. If it was my team I would blow out a rotator cuff waving in runs from third every chance I got. Like the great line from the movie “Remember the Titans”......

“Herman, leave no doubt!”

 

Rake1

My understanding is that the folks at Bridge City do know the school that reported the infraction.

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11 minutes ago, WOSgrad said:

My understanding is that the folks at Bridge City do know the school that reported the infraction.

Like I’ve said before, it will all come out eventually and everyone will know. I’m like everyone else here, I have seen nothing and for me to say it was a specific school would be nothing but speculation on my part and I’m not going to go near that. 

 

Rake1

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So are certain baseball rules supposed to be taken serious & followed by Texas high school baseball coaches & others are not?  Does reporting a rule violation make a person, coach or school wrong for doing it? Is it better just to keep quiet & think its just a simple mistake because the coaches are dumb or it was no big effect on games?  Are certain coaches or teams off limits to question or report?  

Asking for a friend....

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45 minutes ago, KF89 said:

So are certain baseball rules supposed to be taken serious & followed by Texas high school baseball coaches & others are not?  Does reporting a rule violation make a person, coach or school wrong for doing it? Is it better just to keep quiet & think its just a simple mistake because the coaches are dumb or it was no big effect on games?  Are certain coaches or teams off limits to question or report?  

Asking for a friend....

Tell your friend.....

 

Yes to a degree. It’s been like that forever. As stated earlier as an example, practice times are rarely documented and virtually every team in every sport “bends” that rule to a degree. If a school wants to play CSI or Law and Order and wants to enforce “every” rule to the exact letter then I certainly hope their house is clean because they invited others over to dig around. 

As a rule of thumb we all know nothing good happens when folks start digging. 

 

Rake1

 

 

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On 4/18/2019 at 10:58 AM, Cardinals1661 said:

I would think that it would be very hard to prove how many games someone has played on jv.  Some schools do not keep books for under level games.  Im not even really sure how you would prove if they played or did not play in a JV game as far as I know there is not a record kept for that.

game changer can be a good thing and it can be a bad thing

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40 minutes ago, KF89 said:

So are certain baseball rules supposed to be taken serious & followed by Texas high school baseball coaches & others are not?  Does reporting a rule violation make a person, coach or school wrong for doing it? Is it better just to keep quiet & think its just a simple mistake because the coaches are dumb or it was no big effect on games?  Are certain coaches or teams off limits to question or report?  

Asking for a friend....

Please forgive the way I set this out,but I am no better with the quotes feature more than any of you and I wanted to make sure I got to all of KF's question:

Question No. 1: So are certain baseball rules supposed to be taken serious & followed by Texas high school baseball coaches & others are not?

Answer to Question No. 1: No.  Rules regarding eligibility of players are clearly set out in the UIL rules. It is the understanding of any superintendent, principal, athletic director, coach or sponsor that having an ineligible student participate in a game or activity, regardless of the reason he is ineligible and regardless of the school, carries a no tolerance policy of forfeiture of that game or activity. In fact, my understanding is that Coach Landry is ready to accept the consequences of whatever the 22-4A executive committee finds on Tuesday and there has been no talk of retribution against the reporting party by anyone within Bridge City ISD.

Question No. 2: Does reporting a rule violation make a person, coach or school wrong for doing it?

Answer to Question No. 2:  No.  Unless the reporting school delays reporting the infraction to gain an advantage in the standings.  Now, there is no indication that happened in this case, and as with with the original alleged infraction, there is no indication of malice in the report.  But has been known to happen in other cases.

Question No. 3: Is it better just to keep quiet & think its just a simple mistake because the coaches are dumb or it was no big effect on games?

Answer to Question No. 3: See answer to Question 2.

Question No. 4: Are certain coaches or teams off limits to question or report?  

Answer to Question No. 4: No.  As stated above, Coach Landry is ready to accept the findings of the 22-4A executive committee.

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8 minutes ago, PhatMack19 said:

Is GameChanger the official book?  I know ours is wrong about half of the time

i would guess it would depend on who is keeping the game changer.

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18 minutes ago, WOSgrad said:

Please forgive the way I set this out,but I am no better with the quotes feature more than any of you and I wanted to make sure I got to all of KF's question:

Question No. 1: So are certain baseball rules supposed to be taken serious & followed by Texas high school baseball coaches & others are not?

Answer to Question No. 1: No.  Rules regarding eligibility of players are clearly set out in the UIL rules. It is the understanding of any superintendent, principal, athletic director, coach or sponsor that having an ineligible student participate in a game or activity, regardless of the reason he is ineligible and regardless of the school, carries a no tolerance policy of forfeiture of that game or activity. In fact, my understanding is that Coach Landry is ready to accept the consequences of whatever the 22-4A executive committee finds on Tuesday and there has been no talk of retribution against the reporting party by anyone within Bridge City ISD.

Question No. 2: Does reporting a rule violation make a person, coach or school wrong for doing it?

Answer to Question No. 2:  No.  Unless the reporting school delays reporting the infraction to gain an advantage in the standings.  Now, there is no indication that happened in this case, and as with with the original alleged infraction, there is no indication of malice in the report.  But has been known to happen in other cases.

Question No. 3: Is it better just to keep quiet & think its just a simple mistake because the coaches are dumb or it was no big effect on games?

Answer to Question No. 3: See answer to Question 2.

Question No. 4: Are certain coaches or teams off limits to question or report?  

Answer to Question No. 4: No.  As stated above, Coach Landry is ready to accept the findings of the 22-4A executive committee.

 

The game will police itself. Nobody in their right mind would publicly make a statement about retribution. 

 

All of this will come to light, the good and the bad.

 

Rake1

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22 hours ago, Rake1 said:

Like I’ve said before, it will all come out eventually and everyone will know. I’m like everyone else here, I have seen nothing and for me to say it was a specific school would be nothing but speculation on my part and I’m not going to go near that. 

 

Rake1

It was Griffin

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