SELECT VS. HIGH SCHOOL

[MIF04]

Okay, boys and girls: here it is. Select vs. High School? Which does/has done more to get kids to college/better colleges?

Let's take the 2007 committments to date (because, right now, its a shorter list):

David Murphy (West Brook/Sun Devils) to Univ. of Houston -- outstanding player at WB. UH followed him this summer (esp. event in Austin) and decided to make early offer and lock him down. This is one for select.

Johnny Dishon (Bridge City/Sun Devils) to LSU -- one of the best athletes in the area ever. While someone would have signed him anyway, he does not get exposed to the higher quality school without select. LSU followed him for 2 weeks in Georgia (after the new coaching staff got hired) then followed him to California. All select. Result? Johnny's a Tiger. Another one for select.

Chase Dempsay (Baytown Sterling/Sun Devils) to Univ. of Houston -- the MVP of Dist. 21-5A is not actually a surprise to local recruiters but UH put him on their radar when following Murphy. Dempsay also gets seen by a # of major programs this summer, gets UH to 'up' their offer and goes to UH. This is probably a push between select and high school.

Tim Ferguson (West Brook/Sun Devils) to Ole Miss -- without select, he doesn't get seen by Ole Miss pure and simple. Granted, Rice was on him due to all of the scouts following Jay Bruce but those guys disappeared his junior year. They did see him in the summer and got Rice in the mix along with Notre Dame, LSU, etc. Another one for select.

My fingers hurt....I'll let some of you other guys comment on this group and the previous classes. I think we'll find support for both....

[midcountymadness]

With the list you posted there, the nod obviously goes to select.

I personally believe that if you post a list of PNG, Ned, and LCM kids that have signed over the last 10 years I think the majority were recruited off of their high school team. I realize there are some exceptions to that.

[hfaninthestands]

gotta agree with madness...

I would like to see a compiled list of kids that went on to play at the next level. either traveled all over the place or just hung around and caught glances based on high school play and a phone call...

maybe its just because I am from fannett, we don't really like the Wal-Marts, and the Chili's....we like green acres grocery and carmelita's mexican/plate lunch cafe.....

To each is own, if you have the cash pay the gas, if you can't go on a spending spree, better get on the tee....

[adminbaberuth]

Okay' date=' boys and girls: here it is. Select vs. High School? Which does/has done more to get kids to college/better colleges?

[/quote']

In the kid's eyes they could care less who does more, they just want a little help to get exposed. Sometimes you can be a little over exposed and your stock will drop either it be High school or select.

[basbal]

I talked to a D-1 coach this summer and he told me that he saw a grand total of 3 high school games this year and they were in the town that he lives. The college coaches don't have time during their season to watch high school games because they usually play on the same nights. Summer time is the only time they can get out and actually look at players, and if they can drive 100 miles to a showcase and look at a number of different players then they will choose to do that rather than drive 100 miles to look at one player.

[Bears]

The idea of select has changed over the years, a select team that never travels to the right places may not have as much effect as a High level high profile team that enters in the big tourney's, EX. Houston Heat, Sun Devils, Columbia Angels.....

And now colleges are hosting showcases and inviting as many college coaches that are close by to see these games.

College Coaches can only see a very few HS games and mostly at the end of the season.

I guess my biggest points are if the kids are playing at the high level against this kind of competition in front of all these coaches starting there Jr. years they will be followed. But your HS coach has got to help out by passing on all the letters received and in most cases communicating with these universities.

If you are on some of these high profile select teams they have excellent contacts and work as hard as any coach to get all of there kids signed.

And when they are talking to a Coach from a college about a certain kid that they are interested in the Select coach focuses on that kid and does not try to sell other kids instead.

And that does happen in HS, I agree I missed some kids on the earlier list with a majority of them @ Lamar. my bad.

But I suggest as a parent if you want your kid to play at the next level have him evaluated by a scout or college for what level they believe he can play at. Then have your son give you a list of schools in that group that he would like to pursue, send them tapes or go on line and fill out the Prospective Player sheet.

Sam Moore is also a excellent source, he can help you know what level your kid should pursue and he has excellent contacts and will do all he can to help.

[bearfan]

I think if you were to go back 10 years age and compile a list of kids that went on to play at the next level you would see that 7-10 years ago almost all players were recruited from High School since there was very little opportunity to play select baseball in our area. While select baseball is not for everyone here are some things to consider:

When 90% of High School baseball is being played college scouts (coaches) are coaching and unable to attend HS games, as basbal pointed out in his post. If you attend a big showcase or tournament in the summer you may easily see 15-20 D-1 college scouts in attendance.

When a college calls one of the first things he will ask is who else is recruiting you. The more interest in the player, the more options he has with regard to attending the school of his choice. Also he has more bargaining power (leverage) for amount of scholarship.

[adminbaberuth]

I might be stepping on toes but it would be nice if the Select and High School coaches could get on the same page in the recruiting process.

Both are excellent sources for info. Remember that the high school coach has more to lose if his recommedation doesn't turn out.

Over at Sr Babe Ruth we have a great relationship with all of the high school coaches. They know their kids will get 2 games during the week and then go play Select on weekends. We support Select, plus take suggestions all the time from the high school coaches.

[Bears]

Admin,

You guys do a excellent job in Babe Ruth and you probably would admit yourself the ALL-STAR team is a select team and during those strong tourney runs you generate lots of interest.

Would I be wrong saying Hood was a good example???

[Guest K-911]

I think select baseball offers a player more exposure. Plus most of the time you are playing against the best in your age group. That said there are a lot of good players who cannot afford select baseball. Many of the teams mentioned above charge a substantial fee to play. Not to mention the travel expenses and uniform expenses on top of that. It is unfortunate but baseball is slowly edging out anyone who is not wealthy.

[Txfootball07]

Select baseball is has proven to be a double edged sword in Beaumont. It has been great for those able to participate, however it has had a severely negative effect on league ball. Pony league baseball is gone now in Beaumont and Sr League ball is very very poor - as is any league when every decent pitcher is no longer avaliable for league play.

I applaud Mid County and their Babe Ruth League for maintaining their quality status and pride in league play whereas in Beaumont we have lost that.

For those kids that get the additional exposure it is most definately a tremendous vehicle for advancement and opportunity. For the general baseball loving citizen and average baseball playing youth - it has damaged baseball in Beaumont.

[3amagic]

Could this be one reason that WB seems to never be a real threat in 5A. It would seem like they have a huge number of kids to choose from yet never seem to be a real threat despite having a few outstanding players. On the surface it would seem that perhaps depth might be the only real weakness in some of the past WB teams. That is understandable since most high school teams 6 thru 9 whole hitters are most likley not playing select. And if the state of pony league and senior league is that bad off then these kids are left without much of a place to develop.

[MIF04]

To respond to some of the previous posters:

(1) I do not think that select baseball has 'destroyed' or 'damaged' the local leagues. Over the past 5-10 years, the 'older' local leagues have been in a general state of disrepair. That has been due more to a lack of leadership/enthusiasm than to select baseball.

The one local league that has flourished has been Mid County Babe Ruth which continues to provide a first rate opportunity for ball players of all skill levels, etc. Further, that league's boundaries extend throughout all of Southeast Texas thus assuring that no ballplayer gets left behind. Look at their rosters and you will find players from these high schools/communities:

PNG, Nederland, WOS, HF, Vidor, BC, LCM, West Brook, PA Memorial, High Island, Lumberton, OF, Warren, Beaumont Kelly, HJ, Buna, Silsbee and East Chambers.

Mid County is where the local league players from everywhere in SE Texas play. Following the previous poster's logic, one would argue that Mid County Babe Ruth (by its 'extended' boundaries) takes players from their local leagues and they are responsible for their demise. I disagree but the logic certainly follows.

(2) I disagree that select baseball is only for the wealthy. For one, I know that no one on the Sun Devils pays 1cent for uniforms, coaching, travel, etc. Other reputable organizations also provide scholarships or sponsorships for those who are cannot afford the cost. I know because I have been asked (and have provided) funds to other organizations for this very purpose.

I also recognize that there are other, less reputable select organizations that are really not select teams -- they are collections of ball players who are promised 'hope' in return for excessive fees (a/k/a money to line the coaches'/organizers' pockets). One such organization unfortunately exists here in SE Texas.

Both select baseball, and Mid County, has done a tremendous amount to improve the overall quality of baseball in this area. Does anyone really think that this quality would be better without them?

[MIF04]

Could this be one reason that WB seems to never be a real threat in 5A. It would seem like they have a huge number of kids to choose from yet never seem to be a real threat despite having a few outstanding players. On the surface it would seem that perhaps depth might be the only real weakness in some of the past WB teams. That is understandable since most high school teams 6 thru 9 whole hitters are most likley not playing select. And if the state of pony league and senior league is that bad off then these kids are left without much of a place to develop.

WB never seems to be a real threat in 5A? Over the last 3 years, they have played in the toughest 5A district in the area (maybe the entire state) and have gone playoff, playoff, 4th place. In each of those years, they won 20+ games. I think they have been a real threat up there.

Second, last year's 6 and 7 hole hitters for West Brook did play select.

Third, every player at West Brook (like other local high schools) field summer league Connie Mack teams. They can use that time to develop as well.

[Guest K-911]

The Sun Devils are the exception not the rule when it comes to select baseball. They are lucky that they have some very generous sponsers. Once those sponsers kids no longer can play for that team it will probably go away. The Houston Heat and the Columbia Angels, just to name a couple, are very expensive to play for. I am not just talking about the playing fee. The travel expenses, going back and forth to Houston to practice. The uniforms and practice clothing that some of these teams require. It all adds up to a couple of thousand dollars a year. Select baseball has hurt local leagues from Little league on up. Even Ruth has been affected. The only reason it seems to be thriving is that it is the only place left to play for 15 and up. And it is wide open to the whole area. Their are many good players that no longer play Ruth because they play select full time.

I would also like to say that I am not against select baseball. I believe that it has made baseball players in this area much better players. I think the leagues around here should embrace select baseball instead of fighting against it. If they would start their own select leagues and host tournaments like many of the leagues in Houston. Especially for High School age players.They would flourish again. They could still have their regular leagues alongside of the select leagues.

[3amagic]

MIF,

I didn't mean to be disrespectful. However, back to back third place finishes with maybe the best player in the entire state is not really something to brag about. When I said threat in 5a, I was talking about playoff wins. On the fourth place finish. Maybe if 8-9 and 10 would have gotten to play it would have been third. Again not trying to be disrespectful or start an arguement. Just continuing debat.

[3up3down]

Fort whatever reason kids in this area get overlooked by major universities.I think Babe Ruth should use its connections with its alumni,area coaches etc.and hold a showcase every year that draws numbers of college coaches from all over to see the talent we have in se tx.

[Guest K-911]

That's a great idea for someone locally to hold a showcase. The way things are right now local players have to travel all over to try to get noticed. Local leagues might as well accept that select baseball is here to stay. Why not host tournaments locally and keep the money here in the local communities. Kids can play regularly at the complex in Beaumont up to age 12. After that you have to go out of the area to play tournaments. It is really tough to find places to play when you get to age 15 and up. It seems to me that Lamar would want to hold an event that would bring prospective players to them.

[adminbaberuth]

We would be open to ideas about some type of "showcase " tournament .

We have for years brought in college coaches for them to look at kids, plus our alumni always invites kids in our league, plus kids not even in our league up to their school, so the coach can take a look at them.

If some of the Select coaches in the area would PM me we can discuss the showcase idea.

[MIF04]

MIF' date='

I didn't mean to be disrespectful. However, back to back third place finishes with maybe the best player in the entire state is not really something to brag about. When I said threat in 5a, I was talking about playoff wins. On the fourth place finish. Maybe if 8-9 and 10 would have gotten to play it would have been third. Again not trying to be disrespectful or start an arguement. Just continuing debat.[/quote']

The facts prove just the opposite:

2004 -- WB eliminates Hou Memorial in playoffs before being eliminated by Clear Creek in extra innings.

2005 -- WB sweeps Hou Lamar and Clear Lake before losing in 3 games to Humble. That year, WB won both games against Kingwood -- the eventual state champs.

2006 -- WB fades and finishes 4th (the fade occuring after the unfortunate soccer bus accident). WB still wins 20 games including wins over Kingwood and Humble (both who were throwing signees to D-1 Rice).

Note that each of these seasons were played in Dist. 22-5A, the recognized toughest district in the State. Also note that there are very few 5A teams who have won as many playoff games as WB has over the past 3 years.

[MIF04]

I think a quality showcase would be a great idea but I doubt the ability to get sufficient quality college programs here when they can make 2 or 3 trips during the summer and see the best in the country. I just don't know how you motivate them to do that.

I don't think Lamar has any interest in this for the local players. They've never done it, never asked for it, etc. I have no other comment about Lamar and how they recruit...if you want to call it that.

[Bears]

MIF04,

You will be shocked as I am because there is a showcase this weekend @ Lamar. Houston Heat will be sending a team along with the normal other teams.

Most of my passion for select revolves around the fact that I have been associated with the Heat for 3 years and during that time I have seen the kids that sign with Texas and Rice and TCU and A&M all the big schools, and I know our local talent very well. I think to myself man I know 2 or 3 players from the Triangle that are as good if not better.......problem, they have not been seen.

Remember this quote..." It's about being seen at the right time by the right Coach and during the right situation"

My son is living proof of that.

The idea of hosting showcases is a good one, bring in McNeese St., Lamar, USL, SFA, Angelina, Galveston, LSU-E, all of these programs would probably send a rep. to the Beaumont area.

And for the Babe Ruth league let them host it and charge $350.00 a team and they get all concessions as well as gate to help benefit the local league.

[Guest K-911]

That's great that Lamar is hosting an event like that. The only problem is how many local players will actually participate. Those teams that are playing almost have an "exclusive club" when it comes to these types of events. So it still leaves many of our good local players out of the loop.

[MIF04]

Exactly. The event at Lamar is not for the local talent (for example, the SE Texas Sun Devils were not invited nor informed of it. I doubt any other local clubs were, either). It is being put on by a Houstn organization (Triple Play Baseball of Texas) and contains 4 teams:

Houston Heat (Houston -- 1 of their 4 teams. Their 3 'better' teams are in Houston for a tournament)

Texas Magic (Houston)

Houston Raiders (Houston)

Houston Red Dogs (Houston)

In looking at the rosters, the closest I can find to a local player is 1 from BH and another from Huffman. And how many college coaches do you really think are gonna be there over the Labor Day holiday?

[Guest K-911]

One of the problems locally is that there is really not one facility that could host a decent sized tournament. You really need a multi field complex if you are going to have more than 4 or 5 teams participate. If a player wants to be the best they can be they really have to play select baseball to go against the best competition. If a player does not have the financial abliity to play select baseball they would be better served to spend their money attending baseball camps at the colleges they are interested in. That way you are assured that college coaches are getting a chance to look at you.