WOS Landing HUGE Transfer

[jkbtjc53]

I'm hearing 2015 UT commit safety Johnny Shaw has filed his papers to transfer to West Orange Stark if true wow!!!!! I saw the kid today and he said he's going to be a mustangs.


Him and 2015 Alabama commit Deionte will be the best safety tandem in the state

[aTmfan06]

If true he wouldn't get to play varsity for a year I think..

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

LOL, moving from Center to WO-S?? It would make sense if it was from Center to Carthage. I'll believe this if i see a picture of him in a Mustang uniform. Until then I have him having a nice season for the Center Roughriders.  ;)

[Guest Air Bisquit]

[quote name="utfan06" post="1417940" timestamp="1373510895"]
If true he wouldn't get to play varsity for a year I think..
[/quote]

:-X

[jkbtjc53]

[quote name="utfan06" post="1417940" timestamp="1373510895"]
If true he wouldn't get to play varsity for a year I think..
[/quote]


Why is this?? He's not moving for athletic purposes or moving to a team with in a 75 miles of his highschool.

[cougar14]

[quote name="jkbtjc53" post="1417939" timestamp="1373510562"]
I'm hearing 2015 UT commit safety Johnny Shaw has filed his papers to transfer to West Orange Stark if true wow!!!!! I saw the kid today and he said he's going to be a mustangs.


Him and 2015 Alabama commit Deionte will be the best safety tandem in the state
[/quote]Still won't be the best safety tandem in the state, those boys from Timberview are far and away the best tandem and have 30-40 offers between them. Bonney and the other guy he plays with at Lamar are better also. There's more tandems that will be better also due to Texas being loaded down with running backs and safetys over the next couple of years. WOS might be the best 3a group though.

[snafu]

[quote name="cougar14" post="1417964" timestamp="1373543657"]
[quote author=jkbtjc53 link=topic=112839.msg1417939#msg1417939 date=1373510562]
I'm hearing 2015 UT commit safety Johnny Shaw has filed his papers to transfer to West Orange Stark if true wow!!!!! I saw the kid today and he said he's going to be a mustangs.


Him and 2015 Alabama commit Deionte will be the best safety tandem in the state
[/quote]Still won't be the best safety tandem in the state, those boys from Timberview are far and away the best tandem and have 30-40 offers between them. Bonney and the other guy he plays with at Lamar are better also. There's more tandems that will be better also due to Texas being loaded down with running backs and safetys over the next couple of years. WOS might be the best 3a group though.
[/quote]


HAHA Cougar just because these young men aren't from a Houston area team no need to dismiss their abilities...

[jkbtjc53]

The guy that covers Texas recruiting from rivals says Deionte and Johnny are better as rising juniors then all the kids you mentioned were at the same stage. His statement ia the reason I said it.


Deionte is ranked the #1 safety in the state and Johnny is ranked #3 in the state for the 2015 class. I'm pretty sure both together would be tops in 5A-1A

[cougar14]

[quote name="Coach Comeaux" post="1417975" timestamp="1373552144"]
[quote author=cougar14 link=topic=112839.msg1417964#msg1417964 date=1373543657]
[quote author=jkbtjc53 link=topic=112839.msg1417939#msg1417939 date=1373510562]
I'm hearing 2015 UT commit safety Johnny Shaw has filed his papers to transfer to West Orange Stark if true wow!!!!! I saw the kid today and he said he's going to be a mustangs.


Him and 2015 Alabama commit Deionte will be the best safety tandem in the state
[/quote]Still won't be the best safety tandem in the state, those boys from Timberview are far and away the best tandem and have 30-40 offers between them. Bonney and the other guy he plays with at Lamar are better also. There's more tandems that will be better also due to Texas being loaded down with running backs and safetys over the next couple of years. WOS might be the best 3a group though.
[/quote]


HAHA Cougar just because these young men aren't from a Houston area team no need to dismiss their abilities...
[/quote]I don't overstate anything when it comes to recruiting. They may be the best in 3a but they're nowhere near the best tandem in the state. Forget the state, these kids could be the best tandem in the country.

Ed Paris, #2 safety in the country. 26 offers by himself - http://247sports.com/Player/Edward-Paris-11885

Brandon Simmons, #13 safety in the country in the composite. 28 more offers by himself - http://247sports.com/Recruitment/Brandon-Simmons-10980/RecruitInterests

54 offers between them before they even take the field their senior year's.

2 of the top 13 safeties in the United States. I know y'all are Triangle homers but I don't think y'all have an argument. Thompson will be ranked high once the officials come out but he only has like 5 offers, Paris had about 15 offers after his sophomore year so no Thompson wasn't more highly recruited or rated at the same points in their careers. Like I said though, they will probably be the best tandem in 3a.

[jkbtjc53]

Once you commit to Alabama as a sophomore not many teams will offer you, they know they don't have a chance.

[cougar14]

[quote name="jkbtjc53" post="1417996" timestamp="1373556682"]
Once you commit to Alabama as a sophomore not many teams will offer you, they know they don't have a chance.
[/quote]That's actually just the opposite when you commit to a school like that so early. It takes all the guess work out for other recruiters because they know if you can play there you can play at their school. Alabma has had several of their recruits decommit over the last 3 or 4 years to go to Florida, Georgia, Auburn and Ole Miss and that's just the ones i can remember off the top of my head. Craig Loston was the best high school safety i've seen in the state the last 5 years and he decommitted from Alabama for LSU. Thompson will probably get a dozen more offers but he has to be one of the top two or three safeties in the country to be on Paris' level. Simmons is no lower than the 3rd ranked safety in the state and Shaw is probably only going to be a 3 star. I think the top 2 safeties in the state or 2 of the top three depending on which service you use is the best combo in the state. The recruiters could be wrong though, MQ was great and didn't get a look just like i said he wouldn't when y'all called me a hater.

[badndn]

[quote name="jkbtjc53" post="1417963" timestamp="1373543519"]
[quote author=utfan06 link=topic=112839.msg1417940#msg1417940 date=1373510895]
If true he wouldn't get to play varsity for a year I think..
[/quote]
Why is this?? He's not moving for athletic purposes or moving to a team with in a 75 miles of his highschool.
[/quote]

Correct. He should not have to sit out at all as long as the paper work is submitted in time. We had a kid transfer from San Angelo who started as a Sophomore on SA's 5A playoff team and he had to sit out first 5 games last year...My guess was because he had not completed the paperwork in time?? He played week 6 and became our leading tackler second half of season after Warlick was injured.

[VNUPE]

[quote name="cougar14" post="1418022" timestamp="1373563566"]
[quote author=jkbtjc53 link=topic=112839.msg1417996#msg1417996 date=1373556682]
Once you commit to Alabama as a sophomore not many teams will offer you, they know they don't have a chance.
[/quote]That's actually just the opposite when you commit to a school like that so early. It takes all the guess work out for other recruiters because they know if you can play there you can play at their school. Alabma has had several of their recruits decommit over the last 3 or 4 years to go to Florida, Georgia, Auburn and Ole Miss and that's just the ones i can remember off the top of my head. Craig Loston was the best high school safety i've seen in the state the last 5 years and he decommitted from Alabama for LSU. Thompson will probably get a dozen more offers but he has to be one of the top two or three safeties in the country to be on Paris' level. Simmons is no lower than the 3rd ranked safety in the state and Shaw is probably only going to be a 3 star. I think the top 2 safeties in the state or 2 of the top three depending on which service you use is the best combo in the state. The recruiters could be wrong though, MQ was great and didn't get a look just like i said he wouldn't when y'all called me a hater.
[/quote]

I think jk meant the best safety tandem in the class of 2015. But to your point, I agree with the fact that Paris has a lot more offers than Thompson at this point. Do you really know how many offers Thompson has at this point? Let me answer that for you. No you don't. You only know of the 6 you see listed. Let me educate you with facts. Thompson has 8 more offers that are not listed because he was told by his dad not to broadcast because he is already committed. When you commit early other schools do shy away because they have other recruits that are not committed that they want to convince to come to their school. And my comment has nothing to do with me being from the "Triangle". I'm telling you the facts.

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

[quote name="VNUPE" post="1418082" timestamp="1373574171"]
[quote author=cougar14 link=topic=112839.msg1418022#msg1418022 date=1373563566]
[quote author=jkbtjc53 link=topic=112839.msg1417996#msg1417996 date=1373556682]
Once you commit to Alabama as a sophomore not many teams will offer you, they know they don't have a chance.
[/quote]That's actually just the opposite when you commit to a school like that so early. It takes all the guess work out for other recruiters because they know if you can play there you can play at their school. Alabma has had several of their recruits decommit over the last 3 or 4 years to go to Florida, Georgia, Auburn and Ole Miss and that's just the ones i can remember off the top of my head. Craig Loston was the best high school safety i've seen in the state the last 5 years and he decommitted from Alabama for LSU. Thompson will probably get a dozen more offers but he has to be one of the top two or three safeties in the country to be on Paris' level. Simmons is no lower than the 3rd ranked safety in the state and Shaw is probably only going to be a 3 star. I think the top 2 safeties in the state or 2 of the top three depending on which service you use is the best combo in the state. The recruiters could be wrong though, MQ was great and didn't get a look just like i said he wouldn't when y'all called me a hater.
[/quote]

I think jk meant the best safety tandem in the class of 2015. But to your point, I agree with the fact that Paris has a lot more offers than Thompson at this point. Do you really know how many offers Thompson has at this point? Let me answer that for you. No you don't. You only know of the 6 you see listed. Let me educate you with facts. Thompson has 8 more offers that are not listed because he was told by his dad not to broadcast because he is already committed. [b]When you commit early other schools do shy away because they have other recruits that are not committed that they want to convince to come to their school[/b]. And my comment has nothing to do with me being from the "Triangle". I'm telling you the facts.
[/quote] That's true, then on the flipside if that recruit de-commits late [u]it could[/u] (not saying it definitely will) hurt that player in regards to finding a school cause the spots are all gone (full rides)

[bronco pride]

[quote name="VNUPE" post="1418082" timestamp="1373574171"]
[quote author=cougar14 link=topic=112839.msg1418022#msg1418022 date=1373563566]
[quote author=jkbtjc53 link=topic=112839.msg1417996#msg1417996 date=1373556682]
Once you commit to Alabama as a sophomore not many teams will offer you, they know they don't have a chance.
[/quote]That's actually just the opposite when you commit to a school like that so early. It takes all the guess work out for other recruiters because they know if you can play there you can play at their school. Alabma has had several of their recruits decommit over the last 3 or 4 years to go to Florida, Georgia, Auburn and Ole Miss and that's just the ones i can remember off the top of my head. Craig Loston was the best high school safety i've seen in the state the last 5 years and he decommitted from Alabama for LSU. Thompson will probably get a dozen more offers but he has to be one of the top two or three safeties in the country to be on Paris' level. Simmons is no lower than the 3rd ranked safety in the state and Shaw is probably only going to be a 3 star. I think the top 2 safeties in the state or 2 of the top three depending on which service you use is the best combo in the state. The recruiters could be wrong though, MQ was great and didn't get a look just like i said he wouldn't when y'all called me a hater.
[/quote]

I think jk meant the best safety tandem in the class of 2015. But to your point, I agree with the fact that Paris has a lot more offers than Thompson at this point. Do you really know how many offers Thompson has at this point? Let me answer that for you. No you don't. You only know of the 6 you see listed. Let me educate you with facts. Thompson has 8 more offers that are not listed because he was told by his dad not to broadcast because he is already committed. When you commit early other schools do shy away because they have other recruits that are not committed that they want to convince to come to their school. And my comment has nothing to do with me being from the "Triangle". I'm telling you the facts.
[/quote]please dont argue with coug14. He knows everything. If you dont believe me just ask him.

[cougar14]

[quote name="VNUPE" post="1418082" timestamp="1373574171"]
[quote author=cougar14 link=topic=112839.msg1418022#msg1418022 date=1373563566]
[quote author=jkbtjc53 link=topic=112839.msg1417996#msg1417996 date=1373556682]
Once you commit to Alabama as a sophomore not many teams will offer you, they know they don't have a chance.
[/quote]That's actually just the opposite when you commit to a school like that so early. It takes all the guess work out for other recruiters because they know if you can play there you can play at their school. Alabma has had several of their recruits decommit over the last 3 or 4 years to go to Florida, Georgia, Auburn and Ole Miss and that's just the ones i can remember off the top of my head. Craig Loston was the best high school safety i've seen in the state the last 5 years and he decommitted from Alabama for LSU. Thompson will probably get a dozen more offers but he has to be one of the top two or three safeties in the country to be on Paris' level. Simmons is no lower than the 3rd ranked safety in the state and Shaw is probably only going to be a 3 star. I think the top 2 safeties in the state or 2 of the top three depending on which service you use is the best combo in the state. The recruiters could be wrong though, MQ was great and didn't get a look just like i said he wouldn't when y'all called me a hater.
[/quote]

I think jk meant the best safety tandem in the class of 2015. But to your point, I agree with the fact that Paris has a lot more offers than Thompson at this point. Do you really know how many offers Thompson has at this point? Let me answer that for you. No you don't. You only know of the 6 you see listed. Let me educate you with facts. Thompson has 8 more offers that are not listed because he was told by his dad not to broadcast because he is already committed. When you commit early other schools do shy away because they have other recruits that are not committed that they want to convince to come to their school. And my comment has nothing to do with me being from the "Triangle". I'm telling you the facts.
[/quote]The kids don't broadcast anything. Recruiting websites list whats on offer sheets dummy. You think they call kids and ask them what offers they have? Heck no, they ask the recruiting coordinators at the offering schools who they have one the sheet. Kids and parents lie about offers all the time so they talk to coaches unless a kid tweets or post offers which they promptly check before they post them on their website. Singleton and Feuerbacher both have gotten offers after they commit. I can tell you have no idea how this thing works. You think Deshawn Washington's phone has stopped ringing? Raelon is committed to Utah and still went to the UT camp. I don't know where you get you facts but you need to kappa shake that bs back to where you got it from. My cousin committed to Kansas and Michigan called til the day he signed. Same for my cousin that went to UT and Miami calling. Teams don't shy away, the come hard after the kids they want until they sign, why do think coaches sit there hovering over the fax machine until the LOIs come in.  You sound like those Vidor fans last year.

I appreciate that too Bronco. You can come check out one of Crosby's next big receivers if you have time next year. We'll get to see who can do what.

[VNUPE]

[quote name="cougar14" post="1418120" timestamp="1373582054"]
[quote author=VNUPE link=topic=112839.msg1418082#msg1418082 date=1373574171]
[quote author=cougar14 link=topic=112839.msg1418022#msg1418022 date=1373563566]
[quote author=jkbtjc53 link=topic=112839.msg1417996#msg1417996 date=1373556682]
Once you commit to Alabama as a sophomore not many teams will offer you, they know they don't have a chance.
[/quote]That's actually just the opposite when you commit to a school like that so early. It takes all the guess work out for other recruiters because they know if you can play there you can play at their school. Alabma has had several of their recruits decommit over the last 3 or 4 years to go to Florida, Georgia, Auburn and Ole Miss and that's just the ones i can remember off the top of my head. Craig Loston was the best high school safety i've seen in the state the last 5 years and he decommitted from Alabama for LSU. Thompson will probably get a dozen more offers but he has to be one of the top two or three safeties in the country to be on Paris' level. Simmons is no lower than the 3rd ranked safety in the state and Shaw is probably only going to be a 3 star. I think the top 2 safeties in the state or 2 of the top three depending on which service you use is the best combo in the state. The recruiters could be wrong though, MQ was great and didn't get a look just like i said he wouldn't when y'all called me a hater.
[/quote]

I think jk meant the best safety tandem in the class of 2015. But to your point, I agree with the fact that Paris has a lot more offers than Thompson at this point. Do you really know how many offers Thompson has at this point? Let me answer that for you. No you don't. You only know of the 6 you see listed. Let me educate you with facts. Thompson has 8 more offers that are not listed because he was told by his dad not to broadcast because he is already committed. When you commit early other schools do shy away because they have other recruits that are not committed that they want to convince to come to their school. And my comment has nothing to do with me being from the "Triangle". I'm telling you the facts.
[/quote]The kids don't broadcast anything. Recruiting websites list whats on offer sheets dummy. You think they call kids and ask them what offers they have? Heck no, they ask the recruiting coordinators at the offering schools who they have one the sheet. Kids and parents lie about offers all the time so they talk to coaches unless a kid tweets or post offers which they promptly check before they post them on their website. Singleton and Feuerbacher both have gotten offers after they commit. I can tell you have no idea how this thing works. You think Deshawn Washington's phone has stopped ringing? Raelon is committed to Utah and still went to the UT camp. I don't know where you get you facts but you need to kappa shake that bs back to where you got it from. My cousin committed to Kansas and Michigan called til the day he signed. Same for my cousin that went to UT and Miami calling. Teams don't shy away, the come hard after the kids they want until they sign, why do think coaches sit there hovering over the fax machine until the LOIs come in.  You sound like those Vidor fans last year.

I appreciate that too Bronco. You can come check out one of Crosby's next big receivers if you have time next year. We'll get to see who can do what.
[/quote]

Ouch! Dummy? Wow....let me school you sir, because you obviously don't know jack. Thompson happens to be my SON. NOT my cousin, nephew, but SON. So when I speak about him, you can take that to the bank. No one would have known about the Oklahoma offer had he not tweeted it (research it). Recruiting websites don't call kids asking what offers they have? WRONG! I just got a call today. With all due respect, you MIGHT know a little bit. However, the more you talk on this thread exposes you for how much you DON'T know.

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

[quote name="VNUPE" post="1418122" timestamp="1373582799"]
[quote author=cougar14 link=topic=112839.msg1418120#msg1418120 date=1373582054]
[quote author=VNUPE link=topic=112839.msg1418082#msg1418082 date=1373574171]
[quote author=cougar14 link=topic=112839.msg1418022#msg1418022 date=1373563566]
[quote author=jkbtjc53 link=topic=112839.msg1417996#msg1417996 date=1373556682]
Once you commit to Alabama as a sophomore not many teams will offer you, they know they don't have a chance.
[/quote]That's actually just the opposite when you commit to a school like that so early. It takes all the guess work out for other recruiters because they know if you can play there you can play at their school. Alabma has had several of their recruits decommit over the last 3 or 4 years to go to Florida, Georgia, Auburn and Ole Miss and that's just the ones i can remember off the top of my head. Craig Loston was the best high school safety i've seen in the state the last 5 years and he decommitted from Alabama for LSU. Thompson will probably get a dozen more offers but he has to be one of the top two or three safeties in the country to be on Paris' level. Simmons is no lower than the 3rd ranked safety in the state and Shaw is probably only going to be a 3 star. I think the top 2 safeties in the state or 2 of the top three depending on which service you use is the best combo in the state. The recruiters could be wrong though, MQ was great and didn't get a look just like i said he wouldn't when y'all called me a hater.
[/quote]

I think jk meant the best safety tandem in the class of 2015. But to your point, I agree with the fact that Paris has a lot more offers than Thompson at this point. Do you really know how many offers Thompson has at this point? Let me answer that for you. No you don't. You only know of the 6 you see listed. Let me educate you with facts. Thompson has 8 more offers that are not listed because he was told by his dad not to broadcast because he is already committed. When you commit early other schools do shy away because they have other recruits that are not committed that they want to convince to come to their school. And my comment has nothing to do with me being from the "Triangle". I'm telling you the facts.
[/quote]The kids don't broadcast anything. Recruiting websites list whats on offer sheets dummy. You think they call kids and ask them what offers they have? Heck no, they ask the recruiting coordinators at the offering schools who they have one the sheet. Kids and parents lie about offers all the time so they talk to coaches unless a kid tweets or post offers which they promptly check before they post them on their website. Singleton and Feuerbacher both have gotten offers after they commit. I can tell you have no idea how this thing works. You think Deshawn Washington's phone has stopped ringing? Raelon is committed to Utah and still went to the UT camp. I don't know where you get you facts but you need to kappa shake that bs back to where you got it from. My cousin committed to Kansas and Michigan called til the day he signed. Same for my cousin that went to UT and Miami calling. Teams don't shy away, the come hard after the kids they want until they sign, why do think coaches sit there hovering over the fax machine until the LOIs come in.  You sound like those Vidor fans last year.

I appreciate that too Bronco. You can come check out one of Crosby's next big receivers if you have time next year. We'll get to see who can do what.
[/quote]

Ouch! Dummy? Wow....let me school you sir, because you obviously don't know jack. Thompson happens to be my SON. NOT my cousin, nephew, but SON. So when I speak about him, you can take that to the bank. No one would have known about the Oklahoma offer had he not tweeted it (research it). Recruiting websites don't call kids asking what offers they have? WRONG! I just got a call today. With all due respect, you MIGHT know a little bit. However, the more you talk on this thread exposes you for how much you DON'T know.
[/quote] 8)

I wish Oregon, Arkansas, Kentucky and Texas (my schools I root for ;)) would offer him.

[VNUPE]

[quote name="Mr. Buddy Garrity" post="1418124" timestamp="1373583365"]
[quote author=VNUPE link=topic=112839.msg1418122#msg1418122 date=1373582799]
[quote author=cougar14 link=topic=112839.msg1418120#msg1418120 date=1373582054]
[quote author=VNUPE link=topic=112839.msg1418082#msg1418082 date=1373574171]
[quote author=cougar14 link=topic=112839.msg1418022#msg1418022 date=1373563566]
[quote author=jkbtjc53 link=topic=112839.msg1417996#msg1417996 date=1373556682]
Once you commit to Alabama as a sophomore not many teams will offer you, they know they don't have a chance.
[/quote]That's actually just the opposite when you commit to a school like that so early. It takes all the guess work out for other recruiters because they know if you can play there you can play at their school. Alabma has had several of their recruits decommit over the last 3 or 4 years to go to Florida, Georgia, Auburn and Ole Miss and that's just the ones i can remember off the top of my head. Craig Loston was the best high school safety i've seen in the state the last 5 years and he decommitted from Alabama for LSU. Thompson will probably get a dozen more offers but he has to be one of the top two or three safeties in the country to be on Paris' level. Simmons is no lower than the 3rd ranked safety in the state and Shaw is probably only going to be a 3 star. I think the top 2 safeties in the state or 2 of the top three depending on which service you use is the best combo in the state. The recruiters could be wrong though, MQ was great and didn't get a look just like i said he wouldn't when y'all called me a hater.
[/quote]

I think jk meant the best safety tandem in the class of 2015. But to your point, I agree with the fact that Paris has a lot more offers than Thompson at this point. Do you really know how many offers Thompson has at this point? Let me answer that for you. No you don't. You only know of the 6 you see listed. Let me educate you with facts. Thompson has 8 more offers that are not listed because he was told by his dad not to broadcast because he is already committed. When you commit early other schools do shy away because they have other recruits that are not committed that they want to convince to come to their school. And my comment has nothing to do with me being from the "Triangle". I'm telling you the facts.
[/quote]The kids don't broadcast anything. Recruiting websites list whats on offer sheets dummy. You think they call kids and ask them what offers they have? Heck no, they ask the recruiting coordinators at the offering schools who they have one the sheet. Kids and parents lie about offers all the time so they talk to coaches unless a kid tweets or post offers which they promptly check before they post them on their website. Singleton and Feuerbacher both have gotten offers after they commit. I can tell you have no idea how this thing works. You think Deshawn Washington's phone has stopped ringing? Raelon is committed to Utah and still went to the UT camp. I don't know where you get you facts but you need to kappa shake that bs back to where you got it from. My cousin committed to Kansas and Michigan called til the day he signed. Same for my cousin that went to UT and Miami calling. Teams don't shy away, the come hard after the kids they want until they sign, why do think coaches sit there hovering over the fax machine until the LOIs come in.  You sound like those Vidor fans last year.

I appreciate that too Bronco. You can come check out one of Crosby's next big receivers if you have time next year. We'll get to see who can do what.
[/quote]

Ouch! Dummy? Wow....let me school you sir, because you obviously don't know jack. Thompson happens to be my SON. NOT my cousin, nephew, but SON. So when I speak about him, you can take that to the bank. No one would have known about the Oklahoma offer had he not tweeted it (research it). Recruiting websites don't call kids asking what offers they have? WRONG! I just got a call today. With all due respect, you MIGHT know a little bit. However, the more you talk on this thread exposes you for how much you DON'T know.
[/quote] 8)

I wish Oregon, Arkansas, Kentucky and Texas (my schools I root for ;)) would offer him.
[/quote]

Buddy, Texas has offered, we have spoken to Arkansas, but not the others

[cougar14]

[quote name="VNUPE" post="1418122" timestamp="1373582799"]
[quote author=cougar14 link=topic=112839.msg1418120#msg1418120 date=1373582054]
[quote author=VNUPE link=topic=112839.msg1418082#msg1418082 date=1373574171]
[quote author=cougar14 link=topic=112839.msg1418022#msg1418022 date=1373563566]
[quote author=jkbtjc53 link=topic=112839.msg1417996#msg1417996 date=1373556682]
Once you commit to Alabama as a sophomore not many teams will offer you, they know they don't have a chance.
[/quote]That's actually just the opposite when you commit to a school like that so early. It takes all the guess work out for other recruiters because they know if you can play there you can play at their school. Alabma has had several of their recruits decommit over the last 3 or 4 years to go to Florida, Georgia, Auburn and Ole Miss and that's just the ones i can remember off the top of my head. Craig Loston was the best high school safety i've seen in the state the last 5 years and he decommitted from Alabama for LSU. Thompson will probably get a dozen more offers but he has to be one of the top two or three safeties in the country to be on Paris' level. Simmons is no lower than the 3rd ranked safety in the state and Shaw is probably only going to be a 3 star. I think the top 2 safeties in the state or 2 of the top three depending on which service you use is the best combo in the state. The recruiters could be wrong though, MQ was great and didn't get a look just like i said he wouldn't when y'all called me a hater.
[/quote]

I think jk meant the best safety tandem in the class of 2015. But to your point, I agree with the fact that Paris has a lot more offers than Thompson at this point. Do you really know how many offers Thompson has at this point? Let me answer that for you. No you don't. You only know of the 6 you see listed. Let me educate you with facts. Thompson has 8 more offers that are not listed because he was told by his dad not to broadcast because he is already committed. When you commit early other schools do shy away because they have other recruits that are not committed that they want to convince to come to their school. And my comment has nothing to do with me being from the "Triangle". I'm telling you the facts.
[/quote]The kids don't broadcast anything. Recruiting websites list whats on offer sheets dummy. You think they call kids and ask them what offers they have? Heck no, they ask the recruiting coordinators at the offering schools who they have one the sheet. Kids and parents lie about offers all the time so they talk to coaches unless a kid tweets or post offers which they promptly check before they post them on their website. Singleton and Feuerbacher both have gotten offers after they commit. I can tell you have no idea how this thing works. You think Deshawn Washington's phone has stopped ringing? Raelon is committed to Utah and still went to the UT camp. I don't know where you get you facts but you need to kappa shake that bs back to where you got it from. My cousin committed to Kansas and Michigan called til the day he signed. Same for my cousin that went to UT and Miami calling. Teams don't shy away, the come hard after the kids they want until they sign, why do think coaches sit there hovering over the fax machine until the LOIs come in.  You sound like those Vidor fans last year.

I appreciate that too Bronco. You can come check out one of Crosby's next big receivers if you have time next year. We'll get to see who can do what.
[/quote]

Ouch! Dummy? Wow....let me school you sir, because you obviously don't know jack. Thompson happens to be my SON. NOT my cousin, nephew, but SON. So when I speak about him, you can take that to the bank. No one would have known about the Oklahoma offer had he not tweeted it (research it). Recruiting websites don't call kids asking what offers they have? WRONG! I just got a call today. With all due respect, you MIGHT know a little bit. However, the more you talk on this thread exposes you for how much you DON'T know.
[/quote]Yeah dummy, that's exactly what I said. The OU offer was on the sheet already which is why I said 5 offers. I know the Lamar, SFA, etc. offers don't show up yet but he's not going to a school like that anyway. You can pm the other 8 you speak of and THEY WILL BE ON THOSE SCHOOL'S 2015 OFFER SHEETS. Yeah they talk to parents, they don't take your word for gospel until they confirm it with the school though. So your boy has 14 D1 offers huh, two of my best friends are college coaches so like I said pm me and prove me wrong. I won't post the schools, I'll just say you're right. Parents have pm'd me before regarding their child and I've never said anything so let me check those 8 secret offers if you don't mind.

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

[quote name="VNUPE" post="1418128" timestamp="1373583686"]
[quote author=Mr. Buddy Garrity link=topic=112839.msg1418124#msg1418124 date=1373583365]
[quote author=VNUPE link=topic=112839.msg1418122#msg1418122 date=1373582799]
[quote author=cougar14 link=topic=112839.msg1418120#msg1418120 date=1373582054]
[quote author=VNUPE link=topic=112839.msg1418082#msg1418082 date=1373574171]
[quote author=cougar14 link=topic=112839.msg1418022#msg1418022 date=1373563566]
[quote author=jkbtjc53 link=topic=112839.msg1417996#msg1417996 date=1373556682]
Once you commit to Alabama as a sophomore not many teams will offer you, they know they don't have a chance.
[/quote]That's actually just the opposite when you commit to a school like that so early. It takes all the guess work out for other recruiters because they know if you can play there you can play at their school. Alabma has had several of their recruits decommit over the last 3 or 4 years to go to Florida, Georgia, Auburn and Ole Miss and that's just the ones i can remember off the top of my head. Craig Loston was the best high school safety i've seen in the state the last 5 years and he decommitted from Alabama for LSU. Thompson will probably get a dozen more offers but he has to be one of the top two or three safeties in the country to be on Paris' level. Simmons is no lower than the 3rd ranked safety in the state and Shaw is probably only going to be a 3 star. I think the top 2 safeties in the state or 2 of the top three depending on which service you use is the best combo in the state. The recruiters could be wrong though, MQ was great and didn't get a look just like i said he wouldn't when y'all called me a hater.
[/quote]

I think jk meant the best safety tandem in the class of 2015. But to your point, I agree with the fact that Paris has a lot more offers than Thompson at this point. Do you really know how many offers Thompson has at this point? Let me answer that for you. No you don't. You only know of the 6 you see listed. Let me educate you with facts. Thompson has 8 more offers that are not listed because he was told by his dad not to broadcast because he is already committed. When you commit early other schools do shy away because they have other recruits that are not committed that they want to convince to come to their school. And my comment has nothing to do with me being from the "Triangle". I'm telling you the facts.
[/quote]The kids don't broadcast anything. Recruiting websites list whats on offer sheets dummy. You think they call kids and ask them what offers they have? Heck no, they ask the recruiting coordinators at the offering schools who they have one the sheet. Kids and parents lie about offers all the time so they talk to coaches unless a kid tweets or post offers which they promptly check before they post them on their website. Singleton and Feuerbacher both have gotten offers after they commit. I can tell you have no idea how this thing works. You think Deshawn Washington's phone has stopped ringing? Raelon is committed to Utah and still went to the UT camp. I don't know where you get you facts but you need to kappa shake that bs back to where you got it from. My cousin committed to Kansas and Michigan called til the day he signed. Same for my cousin that went to UT and Miami calling. Teams don't shy away, the come hard after the kids they want until they sign, why do think coaches sit there hovering over the fax machine until the LOIs come in.  You sound like those Vidor fans last year.

I appreciate that too Bronco. You can come check out one of Crosby's next big receivers if you have time next year. We'll get to see who can do what.
[/quote]

Ouch! Dummy? Wow....let me school you sir, because you obviously don't know jack. Thompson happens to be my SON. NOT my cousin, nephew, but SON. So when I speak about him, you can take that to the bank. No one would have known about the Oklahoma offer had he not tweeted it (research it). Recruiting websites don't call kids asking what offers they have? WRONG! I just got a call today. With all due respect, you MIGHT know a little bit. However, the more you talk on this thread exposes you for how much you DON'T know.
[/quote] 8)

I wish Oregon, Arkansas, Kentucky and Texas (my schools I root for ;)) would offer him.
[/quote]

Buddy, Texas has offered, we have spoken to Arkansas, but not the others
[/quote] They will come calling soon sir.  8)

[VNUPE]

[quote name="cougar14" post="1418133" timestamp="1373584714"]
[quote author=VNUPE link=topic=112839.msg1418122#msg1418122 date=1373582799]
[quote author=cougar14 link=topic=112839.msg1418120#msg1418120 date=1373582054]
[quote author=VNUPE link=topic=112839.msg1418082#msg1418082 date=1373574171]
[quote author=cougar14 link=topic=112839.msg1418022#msg1418022 date=1373563566]
[quote author=jkbtjc53 link=topic=112839.msg1417996#msg1417996 date=1373556682]
Once you commit to Alabama as a sophomore not many teams will offer you, they know they don't have a chance.
[/quote]That's actually just the opposite when you commit to a school like that so early. It takes all the guess work out for other recruiters because they know if you can play there you can play at their school. Alabma has had several of their recruits decommit over the last 3 or 4 years to go to Florida, Georgia, Auburn and Ole Miss and that's just the ones i can remember off the top of my head. Craig Loston was the best high school safety i've seen in the state the last 5 years and he decommitted from Alabama for LSU. Thompson will probably get a dozen more offers but he has to be one of the top two or three safeties in the country to be on Paris' level. Simmons is no lower than the 3rd ranked safety in the state and Shaw is probably only going to be a 3 star. I think the top 2 safeties in the state or 2 of the top three depending on which service you use is the best combo in the state. The recruiters could be wrong though, MQ was great and didn't get a look just like i said he wouldn't when y'all called me a hater.
[/quote]

I think jk meant the best safety tandem in the class of 2015. But to your point, I agree with the fact that Paris has a lot more offers than Thompson at this point. Do you really know how many offers Thompson has at this point? Let me answer that for you. No you don't. You only know of the 6 you see listed. Let me educate you with facts. Thompson has 8 more offers that are not listed because he was told by his dad not to broadcast because he is already committed. When you commit early other schools do shy away because they have other recruits that are not committed that they want to convince to come to their school. And my comment has nothing to do with me being from the "Triangle". I'm telling you the facts.
[/quote]The kids don't broadcast anything. Recruiting websites list whats on offer sheets dummy. You think they call kids and ask them what offers they have? Heck no, they ask the recruiting coordinators at the offering schools who they have one the sheet. Kids and parents lie about offers all the time so they talk to coaches unless a kid tweets or post offers which they promptly check before they post them on their website. Singleton and Feuerbacher both have gotten offers after they commit. I can tell you have no idea how this thing works. You think Deshawn Washington's phone has stopped ringing? Raelon is committed to Utah and still went to the UT camp. I don't know where you get you facts but you need to kappa shake that bs back to where you got it from. My cousin committed to Kansas and Michigan called til the day he signed. Same for my cousin that went to UT and Miami calling. Teams don't shy away, the come hard after the kids they want until they sign, why do think coaches sit there hovering over the fax machine until the LOIs come in.  You sound like those Vidor fans last year.

I appreciate that too Bronco. You can come check out one of Crosby's next big receivers if you have time next year. We'll get to see who can do what.
[/quote]

Ouch! Dummy? Wow....let me school you sir, because you obviously don't know jack. Thompson happens to be my SON. NOT my cousin, nephew, but SON. So when I speak about him, you can take that to the bank. No one would have known about the Oklahoma offer had he not tweeted it (research it). Recruiting websites don't call kids asking what offers they have? WRONG! I just got a call today. With all due respect, you MIGHT know a little bit. However, the more you talk on this thread exposes you for how much you DON'T know.
[/quote]Yeah dummy, that's exactly what I said. The OU offer was on the sheet already which is why I said 5 offers. I know the Lamar, SFA, etc. offers don't show up yet but he's not going to a school like that anyway. You can pm the other 8 you speak of and THEY WILL BE ON THOSE SCHOOL'S 2015 OFFER SHEETS. Yeah they talk to parents, they don't take your word for gospel until they confirm it with the school though. So your boy has 14 D1 offers huh, two of my best friends are college coaches so like I said pm me and prove me wrong. I won't post the schools, I'll just say you're right. Parents have pm'd me before regarding their child and I've never said anything so let me check those 8 secret offers if you don't mind.

[/quote]

Pm you? After you've called me a dummy? Why would I want to do that? By the way, did you count the Utah offer that wasn't listed? That would be 6. Like I said, you know very little about Thompson and I want to keep it that way. You're just one of those guys who loves to talk about how much he thinks he knows. And who are you to validate anything we do? What credentials do you have? Should I feel better about myself knowing you've given your seal of approval?? HA! Stick to posting about "The Crosby Kids".

[cougar14]

[quote name="VNUPE" post="1418138" timestamp="1373585137"]
[quote author=cougar14 link=topic=112839.msg1418133#msg1418133 date=1373584714]
[quote author=VNUPE link=topic=112839.msg1418122#msg1418122 date=1373582799]
[quote author=cougar14 link=topic=112839.msg1418120#msg1418120 date=1373582054]
[quote author=VNUPE link=topic=112839.msg1418082#msg1418082 date=1373574171]
[quote author=cougar14 link=topic=112839.msg1418022#msg1418022 date=1373563566]
[quote author=jkbtjc53 link=topic=112839.msg1417996#msg1417996 date=1373556682]
Once you commit to Alabama as a sophomore not many teams will offer you, they know they don't have a chance.
[/quote]That's actually just the opposite when you commit to a school like that so early. It takes all the guess work out for other recruiters because they know if you can play there you can play at their school. Alabma has had several of their recruits decommit over the last 3 or 4 years to go to Florida, Georgia, Auburn and Ole Miss and that's just the ones i can remember off the top of my head. Craig Loston was the best high school safety i've seen in the state the last 5 years and he decommitted from Alabama for LSU. Thompson will probably get a dozen more offers but he has to be one of the top two or three safeties in the country to be on Paris' level. Simmons is no lower than the 3rd ranked safety in the state and Shaw is probably only going to be a 3 star. I think the top 2 safeties in the state or 2 of the top three depending on which service you use is the best combo in the state. The recruiters could be wrong though, MQ was great and didn't get a look just like i said he wouldn't when y'all called me a hater.
[/quote]

I think jk meant the best safety tandem in the class of 2015. But to your point, I agree with the fact that Paris has a lot more offers than Thompson at this point. Do you really know how many offers Thompson has at this point? Let me answer that for you. No you don't. You only know of the 6 you see listed. Let me educate you with facts. Thompson has 8 more offers that are not listed because he was told by his dad not to broadcast because he is already committed. When you commit early other schools do shy away because they have other recruits that are not committed that they want to convince to come to their school. And my comment has nothing to do with me being from the "Triangle". I'm telling you the facts.
[/quote]The kids don't broadcast anything. Recruiting websites list whats on offer sheets dummy. You think they call kids and ask them what offers they have? Heck no, they ask the recruiting coordinators at the offering schools who they have one the sheet. Kids and parents lie about offers all the time so they talk to coaches unless a kid tweets or post offers which they promptly check before they post them on their website. Singleton and Feuerbacher both have gotten offers after they commit. I can tell you have no idea how this thing works. You think Deshawn Washington's phone has stopped ringing? Raelon is committed to Utah and still went to the UT camp. I don't know where you get you facts but you need to kappa shake that bs back to where you got it from. My cousin committed to Kansas and Michigan called til the day he signed. Same for my cousin that went to UT and Miami calling. Teams don't shy away, the come hard after the kids they want until they sign, why do think coaches sit there hovering over the fax machine until the LOIs come in.  You sound like those Vidor fans last year.

I appreciate that too Bronco. You can come check out one of Crosby's next big receivers if you have time next year. We'll get to see who can do what.
[/quote]

Ouch! Dummy? Wow....let me school you sir, because you obviously don't know jack. Thompson happens to be my SON. NOT my cousin, nephew, but SON. So when I speak about him, you can take that to the bank. No one would have known about the Oklahoma offer had he not tweeted it (research it). Recruiting websites don't call kids asking what offers they have? WRONG! I just got a call today. With all due respect, you MIGHT know a little bit. However, the more you talk on this thread exposes you for how much you DON'T know.
[/quote]Yeah dummy, that's exactly what I said. The OU offer was on the sheet already which is why I said 5 offers. I know the Lamar, SFA, etc. offers don't show up yet but he's not going to a school like that anyway. You can pm the other 8 you speak of and THEY WILL BE ON THOSE SCHOOL'S 2015 OFFER SHEETS. Yeah they talk to parents, they don't take your word for gospel until they confirm it with the school though. So your boy has 14 D1 offers huh, two of my best friends are college coaches so like I said pm me and prove me wrong. I won't post the schools, I'll just say you're right. Parents have pm'd me before regarding their child and I've never said anything so let me check those 8 secret offers if you don't mind.

[/quote]

Pm you? After you've called me a dummy? Why would I want to do that? By the way, did you count the Utah offer that wasn't listed? That would be 6. Like I said, you know very little about Thompson and I want to keep it that way. You're just one of those guys who loves to talk about how much he thinks he knows.
[/quote]I don't know much at all sir, my wife lets know that all the time. What I do know is that I've eaten, slept and breathed high school football recruiting since the time the Internet became efficient. I've only ever partially missed twice and that was on Jakobi Jones and Aaron Sharp. I came on this site after we lost to Vidor in 2011. I said Jakobi Jones would go D1 50/50 missed for reasons that are irrelevant now but he is playing college ball next year. Before y'all knew where Summer Creek was or who Aaron Sharp is I said he would might make the ESPNU 150. I give myself a miss because he's not close but a K-St commitment to go with a dozen offer isn't bad, and that's before he threw a pass in this district. I said before the year even started Tony Brown was one of the top 5 corners in the country and might be the first ESPN 5 star from the SETX region, he's not an ESPN 5 star but he is in the composite which is just as good. I'm sure these threads can be found somewhere. Your boy is going to have way more than 14 offers, he looks like a faster Cam Chancellor which equates to NFL draft picks. I'm just saying he doesn't have 14 D1 offers now. I have a son starting his first year of school football this year and your boy is one of the kids that are only 3 years older than him that i use as an example of where he could be in a few short years if he works hard. I could only hope he's good enough to get an Alabama offer Mr.Thompson, he wants to go to UT of course but I could only hope.

[VNUPE]

[quote name="cougar14" post="1418143" timestamp="1373587111"]
[quote author=VNUPE link=topic=112839.msg1418138#msg1418138 date=1373585137]
[quote author=cougar14 link=topic=112839.msg1418133#msg1418133 date=1373584714]
[quote author=VNUPE link=topic=112839.msg1418122#msg1418122 date=1373582799]
[quote author=cougar14 link=topic=112839.msg1418120#msg1418120 date=1373582054]
[quote author=VNUPE link=topic=112839.msg1418082#msg1418082 date=1373574171]
[quote author=cougar14 link=topic=112839.msg1418022#msg1418022 date=1373563566]
[quote author=jkbtjc53 link=topic=112839.msg1417996#msg1417996 date=1373556682]
Once you commit to Alabama as a sophomore not many teams will offer you, they know they don't have a chance.
[/quote]That's actually just the opposite when you commit to a school like that so early. It takes all the guess work out for other recruiters because they know if you can play there you can play at their school. Alabma has had several of their recruits decommit over the last 3 or 4 years to go to Florida, Georgia, Auburn and Ole Miss and that's just the ones i can remember off the top of my head. Craig Loston was the best high school safety i've seen in the state the last 5 years and he decommitted from Alabama for LSU. Thompson will probably get a dozen more offers but he has to be one of the top two or three safeties in the country to be on Paris' level. Simmons is no lower than the 3rd ranked safety in the state and Shaw is probably only going to be a 3 star. I think the top 2 safeties in the state or 2 of the top three depending on which service you use is the best combo in the state. The recruiters could be wrong though, MQ was great and didn't get a look just like i said he wouldn't when y'all called me a hater.
[/quote]

I think jk meant the best safety tandem in the class of 2015. But to your point, I agree with the fact that Paris has a lot more offers than Thompson at this point. Do you really know how many offers Thompson has at this point? Let me answer that for you. No you don't. You only know of the 6 you see listed. Let me educate you with facts. Thompson has 8 more offers that are not listed because he was told by his dad not to broadcast because he is already committed. When you commit early other schools do shy away because they have other recruits that are not committed that they want to convince to come to their school. And my comment has nothing to do with me being from the "Triangle". I'm telling you the facts.
[/quote]The kids don't broadcast anything. Recruiting websites list whats on offer sheets dummy. You think they call kids and ask them what offers they have? Heck no, they ask the recruiting coordinators at the offering schools who they have one the sheet. Kids and parents lie about offers all the time so they talk to coaches unless a kid tweets or post offers which they promptly check before they post them on their website. Singleton and Feuerbacher both have gotten offers after they commit. I can tell you have no idea how this thing works. You think Deshawn Washington's phone has stopped ringing? Raelon is committed to Utah and still went to the UT camp. I don't know where you get you facts but you need to kappa shake that bs back to where you got it from. My cousin committed to Kansas and Michigan called til the day he signed. Same for my cousin that went to UT and Miami calling. Teams don't shy away, the come hard after the kids they want until they sign, why do think coaches sit there hovering over the fax machine until the LOIs come in.  You sound like those Vidor fans last year.

I appreciate that too Bronco. You can come check out one of Crosby's next big receivers if you have time next year. We'll get to see who can do what.
[/quote]

Ouch! Dummy? Wow....let me school you sir, because you obviously don't know jack. Thompson happens to be my SON. NOT my cousin, nephew, but SON. So when I speak about him, you can take that to the bank. No one would have known about the Oklahoma offer had he not tweeted it (research it). Recruiting websites don't call kids asking what offers they have? WRONG! I just got a call today. With all due respect, you MIGHT know a little bit. However, the more you talk on this thread exposes you for how much you DON'T know.
[/quote]Yeah dummy, that's exactly what I said. The OU offer was on the sheet already which is why I said 5 offers. I know the Lamar, SFA, etc. offers don't show up yet but he's not going to a school like that anyway. You can pm the other 8 you speak of and THEY WILL BE ON THOSE SCHOOL'S 2015 OFFER SHEETS. Yeah they talk to parents, they don't take your word for gospel until they confirm it with the school though. So your boy has 14 D1 offers huh, two of my best friends are college coaches so like I said pm me and prove me wrong. I won't post the schools, I'll just say you're right. Parents have pm'd me before regarding their child and I've never said anything so let me check those 8 secret offers if you don't mind.

[/quote]

Pm you? After you've called me a dummy? Why would I want to do that? By the way, did you count the Utah offer that wasn't listed? That would be 6. Like I said, you know very little about Thompson and I want to keep it that way. You're just one of those guys who loves to talk about how much he thinks he knows.
[/quote]I don't know much at all sir, my wife lets know that all the time. What I do know is that I've eaten, slept and breathed high school football recruiting since the time the Internet became efficient. I've only ever partially missed twice and that was on Jakobi Jones and Aaron Sharp. I came on this site after we lost to Vidor in 2011. I said Jakobi Jones would go D1 50/50 missed for reasons that are irrelevant now but he is playing college ball next year. Before y'all knew where Summer Creek was or who Aaron Sharp is I said he would might make the ESPNU 150. I give myself a miss because he's not close but a K-St commitment to go with a dozen offer isn't bad, and that's before he threw a pass in this district. I said before the year even started Tony Brown was one of the top 5 corners in the country and might be the first ESPN 5 star from the SETX region, he's not an ESPN 5 star but he is in the composite which is just as good. I'm sure these threads can be found somewhere. Your boy is going to have way more than 14 offers, he looks like a faster Cam Chancellor which equates to NFL draft picks. I'm just saying he doesn't have 14 D1 offers now. I have a son starting his first year of school football this year and your boy is one of the kids that are only 3 years older than him that i use as an example of where he could be in a few short years if he works hard. I could only hope he's good enough to get an Alabama offer Mr.Thompson, he wants to go to UT of course but I could only hope.
[/quote]

Good luck to you and your son. The process is a bit stressful. We're bracing ourselves for September 1st. After that, anything goes as far as recruiting. I won't argue the point about the offers. But when you get to this point in recruiting, understand that there are some offers that will be waiting for you ifyou can get to the campus.

[jkbtjc53]

I work hand and hand with these websites you visit cougar14. They don't call the coaches and ask who all they offered on MOST occasions,  95% of the time they either speak to the kid, the recruits parent or his HS coach.


Its comical you came on here to trying to act like your and expert and then call other people dummys and such.  If a kid doesn't tweet about and offer, text or call a website reporter about and offer then the offer won't be listed,  my brother signed FBS last year he had 18 scholarship offers from D-1 schools (not including the Lamars and mcneese of the world) and I think maybe 10-12 were listed on websites because after he commited he didn't care anymore about keeping up with all of them. Please in the future speak FACTS!!!


Here's some FACTS for you.

Ed Paris is a consensus top 3 safety in the state on all three major recruiting websites
Brandon Simmions is a consensus top 5 safety in the state on all three major websites (no offers from UT, A&M and Alabama)

Deionte Thompson is THE consensus #1 safety in the state for his class on all three major websites

And Johnny Shaw is a consensus top 4 safety for the class of 2015 by all three major sites.


So if that's what your going off of then YES I was right DT and Johnny are the top tandem inthe state as far as rankings go. But Deiontes father was right in the original post I meant they were the top safety tandem in the state for the 2015 class, but after further research I think we can conclude that they are the #1 safety tandem in the state of Texas according towebsites.


Keep your opinions out this thread come back with facts that can be researched!!!!