tvc184

[quote name="rip2506" post="931196" timestamp="1292101064"] It looks like that main beam was broken off. :o [/quote] Broken off or an injury that will not allow it to grow. I know that if they suffer a major injury then it will show in horn production on one side. He may have the genetics of a huge deer but an injury when you will always have him making inferior horns. On the other hand, it may just be broken (or sawed  :D ) off.

??

And yet another spike bites the dust.

No brainer even before the article. The state owns all deer within the state.

You're a better man than me. I would probably ride it out another day just to get my strength back.

Losing to the #5 team in the country at their home court is not too bad and a good showing.

[quote name="bullets13" post="924039" timestamp="1291292507"] I was all set to head up to the deer lease this afternoon, taking tomorrow off, but i've thrown up about 10 times since midnight.  curse word.  here's hoping i feel well enough to at least head that way in the morning. [/quote] That is terrible no matter what you were going to do. I would rather be at work, forced to work overtime and then go to the dentist than have a stomach virus.

It is in the left wing state of Washington. I don't think that it is even legal to think of God while at a school function, much less point to the sky in tribute.

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....... in the eye.

[quote name="piratepride86" post="921735" timestamp="1291002060"] a coyote at 468 yards, a doe at 452 yards and this year an 8 point at 292 yards, all with a .270 and the distances were checked with a rangefinder. [/quote] I hit a 185" Boone and Crockett buck from 673 yards verified while hanging from a tree limb by my legs and shooting upside down. I just didn't want to bring it up.

[quote name="the_dude_abides" post="916745" timestamp="1290464872"] Will this game take place?  What are the chances these two teams can make this happen? Where would the game be played at ( r e l i a n t)? Yes, I know it's early and I don't care.  It's never too early to pad a threads post count. [/quote] It's never good to count the chickens before they hatch and these two eggs died in the incubator.

[quote name="nedfan88" post="920280" timestamp="1290893718"] That's weird you didn't answer my question GO DOGS!!!! [/quote] If you are really a Nederland fan as your screen name indicates, why do you need to ask? When did you become a fan, last week?

How long has it been since Nederland was in the playoffs? How long has it been since Nederland was not in the playoffs? How many times has Nederland been in the playoffs in the last 15 years? Has any team in the Golden Triangle been to the playoffs more in the last 15 years than Nederland?

........ and a lot of people don't know that it exists. So shhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

Great post from the voice of experience.

That's always been a hot spot though. It can really be as good as any location when the timing is right.

The dog or the greenwing tore your pants off?

They have been running this AR thing for many years with very results. It was put in place because of people not wanting to manage and cull. So don't hold your breath waiting for a change very soon.

I have said my piece but I will leave it with this. I am not going against anyone that says AR's are a better management program than an all inclusive package. The problem is that no matter how much anyone argues with it, a majority of people on leases in east Texas do not follow good management practices. Three years from now the results will be in and a more mature, healthy and bigger deer herd will result. Even those that have managed leases now will benefit (as will mine) because no matter how much you manage your lease or private property, the guy next door is likely not doing it. That is especially true the smaller the land area. For a law as a general rule that applies to everyone, the AR's are simply the best that are easy to understand and easy to follow. In a perfect world, everyone would be selective (including those that hunt public lands) and no laws would be needed at all. This is far from a perfect world and the AR's are the easiest to implement.

Like the other areas that have had AR's in place for a few years, the east Texas hunters will be drug along kicking and screaming. Look at any of the hunting forums from the people that hunt in those areas and ask them if they wish to get away from AR's. The results outstripped their anger at the government telling them what to do. Many of the ones that complained the loudest are now their biggest proponents.

[quote name="westend1" post="911434" timestamp="1290013843"] I guess that's where we disagree.  I don't think it has worked well for a long time.  [/quote] [quote author=bullets13 link=topic=61122.msg911519#msg911519 date=1290021629] if you let private land owners and leasers start defining what a "cull" is on their property, we'll start seeing people "cull" 1 1/2 year old 4 points again. [/quote] You are both correct. I has not worked and it is very obvious. [quote author=LumRaiderFan link=topic=61122.msg911533#msg911533 date=1290022568] [quote author=bullets13 link=topic=61122.msg911519#msg911519 date=1290021629] if you let private land owners and leasers start defining what a "cull" is on their property, we'll start seeing people "cull" 1 1/2 year old 4 points again. [/quote] Over half the counties in Texas do just fine without restrictions.  How do you explain that?  If I applied your logic the bloodthirsty hunting masses would kill everything in sight unless restrained by the antler restrictions. [/quote] Why have more than half the counties in Texas not gone to AR's? Because it was not needed. It is not hard to explain. The majority if hunters and land owners set their own restrictions and they are a lot more strict than any 13" rule by the state. In effect, they are self governing. If you think there is a lot of self governing going on in east Texas then you are playing ostrich and ignoring the truth. That deer that I "culled" was at the discretion of the land owner that is under MLD. The deer was also aged by an on scene biologist as 6.5 years old. Would age be the best restriction and not merely go by antler size? Again and again and again.....  Yes. Age is the issue and not horn size. If I had taken a 2.5 year old deer that was 18" wide and measured 135" then I would be wrong in my opinion. Again and again and again..... AR's are not about the best management tool. It is just the most simple to visibly see and enforce. If you believe that the average hunter can age deer on the hoof with any real degree of accuracy then I have the Brooklyn Bridge in my back yard and it is for sale cheap. If the law was to kill any 3.5 year old deer or older (instead of AR's), then sit back and wait for the violations to come rolling in. You would have people swear that the 110 pound 6 point with a neck like a doe is a mature buck. I have seen just that in person on a trophy bowhunting ranch. Such a rule would be ridiculous and almost a non law. A schmuck can look at a deer and see if his horns are outside of his ears and if he can't clearly see that, not shoot. After reading a few more threads on a bowhunter's forum, I have come to the conclusion that there could be exemptions to the AR's like if a biologist or game warden ages the deer at 4.5 year old or older or if maybe it could be that the deer is 150 pounds or more, then the AR's do not apply. If such a move was made however, I think the AR's should be very strictly enforced with no slack given and very heavy fines issued. If a hunter is going to make the call that a deer is only 12" wide but is obvious a mature deer then he had better be able to back it up or pay dearly. As it is, AR's are not the best management tool, they are the easiest to make a judgment on quickly and the easiest to enforce. They also show results even though they are not the best management possible and yes the results do show quickly. It is not like we are telling people to lay off of the deer and in 20 years we will have a good herd. Again, we could start with all fawns and within 3 years we would have a mature deer herd.

Then why do all of the AR counties all show a fairly quick improvement in their deer herds. It would be folly to ignore the results. Like it or not, this program works (and again, not a perfect solution). We will all benefit from it and soon.

[quote name="LumRaiderFan" post="911139" timestamp="1289965871"] If there are several small acreage landowners [size=11pt][b]that are like minded in their management aproach[/b][/size], like in our area then you can manage several small tracts like a large tract if allowed. Taking inferior deer will improve the herd...that is a fact.  It's a practice that [size=11pt][b]all good leases follow[/b][/size]. [size=11pt][b]The quality of the deer in south Texas is not because they applied the 13" rule in years past.[/b][/size]  I'm not saying it didn't help but the biggest impact is allowing the good quality deer to mature and removing the culls. And even if a deer did manage to reach 13" after 3 1/2 or 4 1/2 years, its not the type of deer I would want in the gene pool.  I'm sure some oppose the rule because they want to kill anything with horns, but that's not my reasons. [/quote] IF they are like minded and IF they were all good leases. Well if they were all like minded, we wouldn't need the new rules. South Texas never needed a 13" rule because they had enough sense to manage their deer herd by the complete package and not some "one rule fits all". The problem is, the state needs to do something and the 13" rule is simply the easiest to do. I have no disagreement at all that the 13" rule is not a great management plan by itself. I don't think anyone including anyone from the state will claim that either. Something had to be done though and it had to be understood and implimented by the masses, not like minded managers. It is put in place for the lowest common denominator and in deer hunting, that can be fairly low. It works and has already been proven to work. Is it the best plan? Not by a long sight. Is it one that works and will improve the herd? You betcha.

Fortunately for you, even though you don't like it and don't agree with it, you will reap the benefit of it. Not liking the rules won't make the rules invalid. I didn't like the 55mph speed limit but there is no doubt that the roads were safer at that speed. Not liking the speed limit doesn't change the facts. The fact is that our east Texas deer herd will be greatly improved in the coming years no matter how much anyone feels about their right to take any animal that they wish is being infringed. A couple of questions for you. With centuries of hunting and even poaching where horns are almost no issue and inferior or cull bucks could be killed at will, why are there still inferior bucks? Also, if you take this cull off of a small acreage, how will that improve the herd which due to the small land area, is living almost assuredly off of the property?