tvc184

[quote name="LumRaiderFan" post="910878" timestamp="1289944898"] That's my point...some deer will never grow up and will pass on poor genes for years.  A hunting club or private landowner should be able to take out cull bucks if needed IMO.  [size=10pt][b]This rule was set up with unmanaged public land in mind[/b][/size] (and yes there is a lot of public land...go check out a type 2 map book)where nobody has an a long term interest in improving the herd and anything with horns was taken out.  These magical lines between being able to take a cull buck and not being able to take him because of antler restrictions already exist because not all counties have antler restrictions. [/quote] The AR's started years ago in the coastal bend in counties that much like east Texas, did very poor jobs of managing deer. Talk to people in Colorado County (one of the original counties) who almost never saw a mature deer but now kill lots of trophies. While there is a lot of national forest in east Texas, where is all the public land in south Texas where the AR's started? Simply put, the AR's were not put in place for public land. Assuming that was correct, why not simply make that the law? The AR's were put in place because a majority of people on private lands were not following good deer herd management. If they had, the AR's would not have been needed.

[quote name="ST413" post="910813" timestamp="1289939820"] I agree public and private ruled should be the same just feel that maybe their should be an execption, public and private, I the cases I mentioned. I love some of the pics I have seen of deer killed in this area after just one year. Although, I personally haven't seen a deer in enough light that has over 3 pts.  One of [size=10pt][b]the problems where I have hunted in Tyler county has been hunters on private land killing anything and the mentality if I don't take it the neighbors will.[/b][/size] Now this year game wardens have told us the hunting club bordering our land has been ticketed more for small horns than any other area in the county. [/quote] That is where my lease was for the last 7 years. We started voluntarily restricting out deer about 5 years ago. A 120" set of horns was a rarity on the lease and in my years there and up to three years ago, a 118" deer was the best taken (I dropped out this year for personal reasons that had nothing to do with the lease or its members). In the last two years our 11 hunters have taken a 138", a 141" and a couple more this year that may be pushing the high 120's or low 130's. We went from taking a rare buck of any size to taking several good ones in the trophy class. We are not running a trophy lease but who would trade a single 118" deer for several over 130" and in less year?

[quote name="LumRaiderFan" post="910497" timestamp="1289918338"] I agree...if a hunting club or a private landowner wants to take out an inferior deer to improve the herd, they should be able to.  Right now they have no choice but to let poor quality deer walk (that may never reach 13") I see the thought process behind the law but it handcuffs clubs and landowners that are managing for quality deer,. [/quote] Except that the hunting club or private land owner do not own the deer. They belong to the people of the state of Texas even when they are crossing private property. There is very limited public hunting land in Texas. A large majority of the viable hunting land is on a hunting club or private property. Even in areas of public land, many of the deer that live there cross onto private or lease property. If there was such a law allowing the killing of less than the antler restrictions due to private property or a hunting lease, about 95% of the area now covered by the current restrictions would not even apply. It would be a meaningless law. Sorry, this law only applies to you poor folks that can't afford a hunting lease or have the money and simply can't find one in your area. As noted by Bullets, there is already a program in place for many hunting clubs through MLD. Look at it this way. Let's say that a guy hunts on public land in Texas. He is hunting in one of the national forests near a fence line that is on private property. A buck comes out but can't be taken by the public hunter even though he has his young son with him. Then they watch as the deer runs 50 yards and jumps over the fence and is immediately blasted by a hunter and his young son. The reason? The deer crossed the fence line onto "private" property. What is the guy on public property going to tell his son? Sorry but I couldn't afford $500 for a lease this year so the guy a few yards away can kill him but we can't. So it is the same deer in almost the exactly same location but one is on that magical private land or a lease. That is deer management? I don't think so. By the same reasoning, we could catch any fish without regard as far as size or bag limit if we were standing on a private dock. Never mind that the fish could swim a few feet and be where it could only be caught from public waters. Texas fish and game belong to the people of the state and one person has no more right to that game because it happens to cross onto or in front of private property. Let the deer grow up and the kids won't have to "settle" for that baby 4 point to get the "first deer".

[quote name="AFC77" post="909465" timestamp="1289801323"] Not sure if I'm misunderstanding your message there, but no I'm not going to shoot a deer unless I have clear evidence that it is greater than 13". I'm still learning though on how to age deer on the hoof so I can take a more mature deer vs. a younger deer. [/quote] I read a lot of forums and talk to plenty of people and it is like they are eyeballing a few deer that are around 12-13". They are looking to take the deer since he may actually measure the magic number. If it is legal, I have could care less what someone kills on their lease or public land. But the point of the spread is to let deer grow up into mature deer. Hopefully the herd will not be a bunch of 3.5 year olds that just make the restriction width and are taken out. So we will have a bunch of deer in a 2.5 year old herd instead of the 1.5 year old herd now when everything brown is put down. Yes, I am aware that a lot of people actually manage their lease or private property but I don't think that a majority do. If they did, there would be no need for restrictions. The 13" spread is the minimum. That doesn't mean that we should try and search out every deer when he hits 13" and kill him. Looking for mature deer would obviously be a better judge of when to shoot a deer and not his spread. If we let the herd grow up, we will be killing 15-20" spread deer and not looking for the deer that may or may not measure up and kill him to see if he makes it. That is why I think that if a deer is close, you don't kill him. You let him walk and next year he will probably be no debate as to his size. I am not making a moral judgment in what someone kills. If it is legal by state law, go for it. With the current rules in many counties now set at 13", we should be looking for deer that are clearly over that and not debate whether this deer or that deer is 12.5" or 13.25". I see hunting forums and a guy will post a couple of pictures from a game cam asking for opinions if a particular deer is 13" yet. Some will say yes, some will say no. If it is that close..... why even ask? That is my point.

As I have said before, the intent of the rule is not some arbitrary opening to fire a shot but the desire to get a more mature herd. I understand the desire to kill a deer but I went for six years without killing a buck (killed plenty of does however) even without the now required restrictions. Just because a deer might be close to the magical 13", it doesn't mean that a person should risk shooting it. Unless the deer is clearly over 13", it should not be attempted to kill it in order to ground check the deer. It is not like a fish that can be caught and tossed back if he doesn't measure up. Of course, a person can do what he wants and risk it but that is not the way it should be undertaken. We should be looking for clearly mature deer and not just the state mandated inch rule. I wish that the rule was not needed and that people were more management minded. That simply is not the case however. In my opinion.

[quote name="AFC77" post="908751" timestamp="1289756584"] So tvc184, your saying it has happened? What would the outcome be if someone were to get stopped by a TPWD officer and it didnt measure 13" but was outside the ears? Do you have any idea? [/quote] You are completely at the discretion of the game warden or any other officer. In all citations (game warden or any other peace officer) it comes down to officer discretion. If you are stopped speeding, a cop can warn you or give a citation. The same for not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign and so on. A game warden has the same authority. If you have a deer that is 12.8 inches, he can give you a warning, issue a citation or take you to jail and confiscate the deer. You can then be charged a replacement fee for the deer that may run $1,000 where they are basically suing you to restock the herd for the one you killed. It all goes by the game warden and maybe the mood that he is in. From my experience, game wardens use less discretion that other officers. They are put out there for basically one reason and that is to protect the state's fish and game resources. In a way it is not quite like a city cop that catches you going 38 in a 30 mph zone. Okay, slow down....... no harm, no foul. If a game warden catches you with 3 speckled trout in your ice chest that are 14" (1 inch under the limit), there is no putting them back to live another day with a warning. The damage is done. If game wardens are giving warning for close in some areas, great (I guess). I have read some hunting forums from different areas with the restrictions and some game wardens are giving a bit of latitude and in other areas they are holding it to the letter of the law.

[quote name="ST413" post="908931" timestamp="1289770740"] My wife took care of the 3 pt this morning. Dropped it off at the proceessor. Where a biologist aged it at 3.5 yrs. Said it needed to be killed. [/quote] Oh yeah. It is a 3 point and it is not a yearling, it needs to go.

Yep. Wait a couple of more years and watch the results.

Red Stag or Axis = Steaks, roasts and sausage. It doesn't equal pets.

Oooooooooooooooookay..........................  ::)

If it's a 3 point, take it out.

[quote name="bronco#34" post="902373" timestamp="1289312357"] i would say the crosby cougars .if the district didnt take 4 teams ,they would be at home for the playoffs. c mon man they loss to goose creek memorial  [/quote] I think that a lot of teams that didn't make the playoffs would argue that not making it is a lot worse than making the playoffs but didn't rank higher. I wonder if any of them would trade places with Crosby and still be playing this weekend..........

[quote name="PURPLE 4EVER" post="902175" timestamp="1289269048"] Just curious... How many tickets is Nederland allowed to sell? [/quote] The entire amount of the visitor's side. They can sell all 80 tickets.............

Just my opinion but I would never shoot a deer with buckshot at over 15-20 yards. It would be like one of the most unreliable weapons of choice. The same gun with a slug would be a different story. Buckshot if for up close and personal with not much time to shoot. Even as a police weapon, buckshot is for very close range at a potential moving target. That's my take on it. It is not the weapon but the ammo choice. Maybe you'll find the horns when the buzzards start circling.

A cull or "management deer" is one that the big time trophy guys won't pay for. When they fly in from out of state, they don't want to go home with a deer that won't look good on their wall. Some of the management/culls are some pretty nice deer. They just aren't "trophies".

I would think that anyone that doesn't make the playoffs would be very disappointed. I think that the LCM fans probably thought that they had finally turned the corner though after a long playoff drought. Starting out the first half of the season undefeated and then ending up with Nederland not having to win but only keep it within 11 points to make it to the big dance and still missing out has to be tough. After so many years of coming up dry and looking as it was a fairly sure bet and then missing the playoffs in the last half of the season has to be a hard one.

[quote name="bullets13" post="901800" timestamp="1289245820"] big boy.  you couldn't get a shot at him? [/quote] You bet I could have. My wife would have wondered about the $5,000 charge on the credit card though. We were there to shoot does, culls and spikes.

Yes, he was an 8, I had my mind on the 7 with now brow tines. Let me go do some editing.

[b]And last but not least, the last of our bow kills for bucks this weekend. Another hunter in our group took this 8 point that weighed 210 pounds. [/b] [IMG][Hidden Content]]

[b]Here is another cull that one of my group took out. He is a mature deer but only a 7 point with no brow tines. He would have been a decent deer with the tines. [/b] [IMG][Hidden Content]]

[b]This one came out and chased him off. The ranch might take him this year. He is a bruiser for sure. [/b] [IMG][Hidden Content]]

[b]Here is one I had out in front of my stand for a while Saturday morning. He has the potential to be a good one in the future. I aged him at 3.5 (maybe 4.5) years old so he has another 3 or 4 years of growing yet.[/b] [IMG][Hidden Content]]

[b]Not a bragger but he is my first buck kill with a bow. I have a few does and javelinas but this was a break through.[/b] [IMG][Hidden Content]]

[quote name="westend1" post="901634" timestamp="1289233470"] [quote author=tvc184 link=topic=75731.msg901621#msg901621 date=1289232843] We had a guy bring his 14 year old daughter and she got a 110 pound doe with a bow. If anyone wants to argue that a 30 pound compound bow won't send an arrow through a deer, I can tell you that it can. [/quote] Good for her, but, I thought you had a minimum pull weight of something like 40-45 to be able to hunt whitetail.  Is that just an old wives' tale? [/quote] It was changed the last legislature from a 40 pound minimum. That is why I brought it up. There was a big debate over a lighter bow killing a deer and would it just wound an animal and blah blah blah. People forget that a 40 pound recurve 30 years ago was shooting a wooden arrow about 140 feet per second. Now we have 30 pound compounds shooting a carbon arrow with a razor blade broadhead at 190 feet per second.

We had a guy bring his 14 year old daughter and she got a 110 pound doe with a bow. If anyone wants to argue that a 30 pound compound bow won't send an arrow through a deer, I can tell you that it can.