Setx fan
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Posts posted by Setx fan
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2 minutes ago, stevenash said:
According to an associate, murder rate in Chicago is attributable to population density
Yes. Population density and fatherlessness which helps create a strong gang culture. The guy who had a shootout with the cops is likely a gang member and the looting/shooting was likely done by gang members along with a few extras who were probably persuaded to participate by a false narrative on social media that the victim was 15 years old.
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3 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:
1. I think the "gun! gun! gun!" is used to warn other officers that the suspect has a weapon in their hands.
2. This is what's hard to imagine. You know that feeling you get when you wake up and think that you heard someone in your house? Now, imagine that you are that person, and the human being wearing the police uniform that's actually outside your window has the same exact adrenaline/fear going.... And both of you have weapons drawn. Something bad is going to happen, and more often than not the trained person will survive the events.
3. I don't think it's as easy as just saying "the police have to announce themselves whenever conducting an investigation or serving a warrant," because that will without a doubt expose LEOs to even greater danger when they are forced to confront bad guys. I really wish that I knew the answer. Like I said, though..... I can relate. I could very easily be one those people who could be shot if they come into my place unannounced.
1. His partner was with him.
2.You would think the trained person would be trained to avoid these situations. Common sense would tell me if I’m creeping in someone’s back yard there’s a chance the occupants can be alarmed.
3. The policemen announcing himself is the best solution. He was not doing an investigation or serving a warrant. He was supposed to be doing a wellness check.
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9 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:
You’re killing me, Smalls.
I don’t necessarily agree with your “protocols,” but guys like TVC could probably fill us in. He teaches at a police academy and can probably give us some actual insight as to what they are trained to do.
I’d like to hear what he has to say about that and also an officers’s response when he see’s a gun. In my opinion it doesn’t make sense to say “Let me see your hands” when you see someone’s hand and it has a gun in it. A more appropriate response would probably be “drop your weapon” or to simply yell “gun! gun! gun!” like I’ve seen in other videos where police have shot suspects who actually had guns.
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1 hour ago, CardinalBacker said:
Jesus. How about body cam footage and a freeze frame that shows the pistol in her hand?
So... you don’t believe the police version, you don’t believe the witness, you don’t believe the family spokesperson.... I’m sure you still won’t accept that she pointed a gun. You, my friend, are part of the problem. You’re one of those that will deny that the earth is round if you choose not to believe it.
Once again... the neighbors asked this cop to go over because he felt like something wasn’t right. The police officer walked up and looked through both open doors and saw no one. You’re right though. If somebody had been in the back room raping this young woman, the police should have definitely announced themselves and allowed the rapist to arm himself.
You’re blinded by your own racism and dislike of law enforcement, IMO.And I’m possibly too accommodating of LEOs.
1 hour ago, CardinalBacker said:Jesus. How about body cam footage and a freeze frame that shows the pistol in her hand?
So... you don’t believe the police version, you don’t believe the witness, you don’t believe the family spokesperson.... I’m sure you still won’t accept that she pointed a gun. You, my friend, are part of the problem. You’re one of those that will deny that the earth is round if you choose not to believe it.
Once again... the neighbors asked this cop to go over because he felt like something wasn’t right. The police officer walked up and looked through both open doors and saw no one. You’re right though. If somebody had been in the back room raping this young woman, the police should have definitely announced themselves and allowed the rapist to arm himself.
You’re blinded by your own racism and dislike of law enforcement, IMO.And I’m possibly too accommodating of LEOs.
The freeze frame looks weird. It goes from hearing the gunshot to seeing what looks like a gun on the ground then back to what the officer supposedly seen the moment before he shot her although this is not what he said he saw. There are no blinds or anything like that on the picture but the gun is very clear and visible although nothing else on the picture is very clear. Again it is protocol for officers to announce themselves except on seldom occasions. Wellness checks are not one of those occasions. If someone is raping her I don’t think the door is wide open. If the door is open at a crime seen and stays open from the time of the neighbor’s call till the officer arrives the suspects have probably already done what they’ve done and flees. No need for you and your partner to sneak around the back because if there is a criminal there he can now exit out the front door. He had a simple task and he made it harder than it had to be.
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1 hour ago, stevenash said:
If you want it to stop ASAP, is "allowing it to dwindle" an appropriate solution? If you are a police officer and I am one of the "dwindlers" and you tell me to leave the area and I respond by spitting in your face, do you have justification to respond?
I can’t make you understand my point. Just sleep on it and if that doesn’t work just forget about it
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12 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:
Even the family’s attorney said that she had one.
Despite what you see/hear, cops aren’t just out there shooting people for the fun of it.
You and I are both intelligent people. The question is why do we both have access to the same facts but arrive at opposite conclusions? I probably give LEOs the benefit of the doubt when sometimes they might not deserve it, and it kinda seems like they can’t catch a break from you, even when they might possibly deserve one.
My guess is that you see this incident as racially based, when I haven’t seen anything to indicate to me that the killing was anything more than avoidable accident. Except that I don’t know how to avoid accidents like these.
A lot of people would argue that police should identify themselves, but that’s not always the right procedure based on the nature of the interaction, in my untrained opinion. And as long as the bad guys sometimes yell “freeze! Police!!!” before they rob someone, identifying oneself isn’t gonna fix this problem.I’m well aware of the family’s attorney. He did state she owned a gun but not that she pointed one at the officer. I’ve never implied the officer was some extreme racist who just wants to go around and kill black people. I don’t think there are many of those type of cops at all. I don’t think there are a lot of really good cops neither. I think most cops are just Average Joes with a badge. A simple wellness check was obviously way over this particular Average Joe’s head and it ended very horribly. This could happen to anybody of any race but it just seems things like this are more likely to happen to blacks than any other race.
An officer is ALWAYS supposed to announce himself unless he has a “no knock” warrant or something of that sort. He wasn’t there to arrest a criminal. He was only there for a wellness check so he should have announced himself and been smarter and more cautious. Especially when you know your easily frightened and trigger happy. Smh
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3 minutes ago, stevenash said:
Then you are essentially admitting that you are speculating. Do you believe it is a good idea, when discussing life and death situations to arrive at a conclusion based on speculation?
I would say it’s a little better than speculation but ok we can go with that word. And as far as life and death Atiana’s dead and she’s not coming back. The officer was easily frightened like many other officers who don’t belong in law enforcement. I’m pretty sure she didn’t point a gun at him but I’m 100% sure it didn’t matter because he said himself he was spooked by her image through the blinds
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5 minutes ago, stevenash said:
SHould those who strongly support the 5 slain black officers in Dallas ( by Micah)have proceeded to burn down black neighborhoods in the name of "justice" and, when questioned about it, state they were "just peacefully protesting"? ( and you knew PRECISELY who what when where how)
If those things happen often and the perpetrators some time get away with it while maybe serving a 10 year sentence at the most for it? I wouldn’t suggest those actions but I would somewhat understand
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3 minutes ago, stevenash said:
So, because kids can be coerced into such statements, you know for a fact that this is what happened? I wonder who "coerced" Michael Browns associates to say he said "hands up don't shoot"? I know, I know, it was simply the trauma of the time and that should not be held against them.
I don’t know for a fact but I do know a gun had nothing to do with his actions. He never mentioned a gun as to why he shot her. He said he was frightened just by her image through the blinds.
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4 minutes ago, stevenash said:
Should a sector of the population, particularly those who hold law enforcement in high esteem as well as all of the loved ones of the deceased, have proceeded to burn down black neighborhoods in the name of "justice" and, when questioned about it, state they were "just peacefully protesting"?
I’m lost. Who, what, when, where, and how?
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24 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:
“Jefferson's nephew told authorities that she had taken a handgun from her purse when she heard noises outside and pointed it toward the window, according to an arrest warrant. But police have said she was within her rights to protect herself.”
Quoted from the link. I personally don’t know.
I’m aware of the nephews statement. Kids can be coerced into making statements like that easily. The shooter himself never mentioned a gun initially.
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10 minutes ago, stevenash said:
What police brutality did Micah Johnson endure and when? Was it before or after he killed 5 police officers and injured nine others? Are you suggesting that there was justification for what he did?
No I thought you were mentioning a white guy I know of in Dallas (can’t remember his name) who died a victim of police brutality. But yea police did what they had to do with Micah. He was dangerous
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1 minute ago, stevenash said:
Should rioting be allowed to "dwindle down" ( also, how, exactly did you know the rate of the "dwindle") or should it be terminated because it is wrong and there is no need for further property or human damage? Why do you have no interest in police shooting of minorities being allowed to "dwindle down"?
Ideally you would want it to completely stop as soon as possible but it doesnt always work that way
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19 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:
Did you watch the clip? Those “peaceful protestors“ were trying to burn down the federal building with that guards inside. That’s when they sent in the federal reinforcements. There have been federal officers there forever. The rioting forced them to bring in more because the city wouldn’t control the situation. You haven’t seen feds out and about. They’re specifically protecting federal property.
Did you watch the clip? Those were federal officers inside the building? The feds arrived July 4 and left near the end of July. The rioting was actually dwindling down but not completely stopping fast enough for some before then. When the feds arrived things cranked back up.
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2 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:
First off she didn’t point a gun. Second she has second amendment rights just like everyone else. If some one is creeping in your back yard that would probably give you a good reason to grab your gun. If he hasn’t announced himself how does she know he’s an officer? I’m glad he’s indicted and I hope he’s found guilty but you never know with this system
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2 minutes ago, stevenash said:
Also, I will ask again the other question that you refused to answer ( no surprise)
Micah Xavier Johnson was killed by police in Dallas. Was it strictly because the police were racist? ( once again, dont try the " i don't know about this one tactic)
You edited the thing after I’d already responded. Micah Johnson is another victim of police brutality. All police brutality isn’t a result of racism although racism is a factor in some cases.
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1 minute ago, CardinalBacker said:
If the police tell you to leave and you do not, then the police shoot a tear gas canister in your direction to try once again to get you to leave the area, then you pick up the canister and lob it back towards the cops, you should be thankful that they weren’t using live ammo.
Once he picked that canister up, all bets were off. If people have been assaulting cops in that area for days, then you decide to go down and take part in the fun.... well, you get what you get. That’s just how it works in the real world.
It’s funny how y’all all want to be socialists (speaking of your generation) but I was around when the socialists were running people down in China. Not people who were throwing stuff at the cops. Just for blocking the street. I’ve seen injustice. This isn’t it.My point is the Feds didn’t make the situation better. In fact they made it worse.
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1 minute ago, stevenash said:
Then answer my question. Did the police just randomly appear at their homes in order to kill them or was there a reason, in both instances, that the police showed up.
Botham Jean? No reason at all. Atiana? A concerned neighbor called the police for a wellness check because her front door was open. The officer creeped around her house without announcing himself like she was a suspect. Then got spooked and shot her when she looked out her blinds to see who was in her back yard.
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13 minutes ago, stevenash said:
So they weren't protesting? That was the point of the question but you took it elsewhere in an attempt to legitimize your claim even though it was totally unrelated to the subject. In both of the cases you mentioned, did police just simply find a home belonging to a black person and walk in and blast away? Or were they there due to an investigative order from their superiors? If they were there based upon an order from their superiors, were the superiors racists giving out instructions to kill some black people or were the superiors simply responding to a complaint from a citizen? And I am very sorry, but you just saying " yes peaceful protestors are attacked all the time, you can look it up" is not an example. It is merely a statement or opinion offered by you.
I sincerely apoligize for misunderstanding your question. I’ve already mentioned Donavan La Bella on another thread. Those other 2 I mentioned weren’t under any investigation or anything. They were upstanding citizens. You not knowing about their cases explains a lot
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Peacefully protesting? No. They were in their house minding their business. Sorry I didn’t fully understand your question. But yes peaceful protesters are attacked all the time. You can look it up if you like
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10 minutes ago, stevenash said:
Can you give me an example where law enforcement initiates violence with no provocation?
Botham Jean and Atiana Jefferson are 2 more notable cases
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1 hour ago, stevenash said:
This is intended as a general question and not one pointed toward a specific incident or city. Do you believe that most physical incidents/confrontations between law enforcement personnel and demonstrators are the result of an action initiated by the demonstrator or the member of law enforcement? Also, do you believe that the riots in various city such as Minneapolis and Portland were only peaceful protesting gone wrong because the law enforcement personnel wanted to start something? In the instance in St. Louis where the property owners brought guns out of their house to protect their property, was that wrong? If they didn't have guns, would the protestors simply have walked by and done nothing to the property and/or their owners? Whatever you do, PLEASE do NOT try to say, suggest, infer that you are unaware of any of these.
I would like to believe that most times things are instigated by demonstrators although I know for a fact that sometimes things are instigated by law enforcement. I wouldn’t be able to give you an accurate percentage but I know things are sometimes escalated by law enforcement.
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1 hour ago, CardinalBacker said:
The top embedded video shows the event.
The feds shot what appears to be a tear gas canister that landed by Donavan's feet. He picked the canister up and threw it back towards the police, then put what appears to be a radio back over his head. Somebody yells "eff you" (you really can't tell who), but then Donavan gets beaned with the less lethal round. I'm just speculating here, but my guess is that the "protestors" had been told to move, get back, disperse, etc..... that's PROBABLY what led to the use of the tear gas canister. And while it looks like Mr. Donavan had no intentions of striking an officer when he threw the canister back towards the police, he shouldn't have thrown it back.
Throwing tear gas canisters back towards the police is an ample reason to get lit up with a beanbag/rubber bullet. No apology is necessary.
Just for your viewing pleasure....
Whenever someone finds some solid evidence that Donavan or someone in close range of him was rioting or being violent the night he was shot let me know. He threw the canister away from him. The canister landed no where near the police. Did the police have a reason to throw it at him in the first place? And as far as the aftermath of Donavan being shot I am already aware that things got worse. That’s the point I’ve been making. Thanks for the video to prove that
Black lives DON'T matter, according to BLACKS
in Political Forum
Posted
No. He was 20