TexasTerror

[quote name="bigred360" post="822513" timestamp="1280771918"]Shouldn't the fieldturf be ready by Aug. 14 to play in the stadium?[/quote] Other stadium issues, possible? Still no practice schedule on the Lamar athletic web site???

Does the Enterprise post releases from the school or are they getting their own info? Was looking for practice info on the Cardinals' athletic web site. Did I miss it? [quote]The team will also hold two preseason scrimmages, Aug. 14 and Aug. 21. The site for each scrimmage has not been determined.[/quote] Any idea where they may hold the scrimmages?

[quote name="UNLV" post="822194" timestamp="1280545726"]So my question to you, did LU basketball make more than SHSU football?[/quote] Per [Hidden Content] 2008-09 SHSU Football Revenue: $1,891,498 2008-09 Lamar Basketball Revenue: $1,271,778 Even with your UNLV 'funny math', nope...

[quote name="CardAmbassador" post="822171" timestamp="1280535402"]LU did announce the spring and fall scrimmages on the athletic site and on the .edu site. I attend LU, and I read LU news 7 days a week , there was coverage, I'm sorry your memory is failing you. I'll admit the coverage was not huge, but LU doesn't have the type of money for an all out media campaign, we have built tons of dorms and facilities in the past 5 years. I'm sure that we have some significant loans to pay off before we can increase the schools advertising. [/quote] Hard to prove you right or wrong when the - [Hidden Content] - is not working. It's old news now that Lamar had some serious lapses in coverage, particularly last fall. There were no recaps or anything of the fall. Coverage picked up some in the spring, but was still relatively quiet from the official school site. I am not talking about an all-out media campaign, but an online presence on the OFFICIAL school athletic web site. You guys are doing football promotions the right way no. Either way, having an actual football team on the field and playing games will lead to the type of coverage expected of a Division I program with football. Old news. We can debate the other merits of the argument, but even those are useless - because we got to see how things play out.

[quote name="UNLV" post="822163" timestamp="1280533149"]It looks like LU basketball average more fans then SHSU football in Season. Am I correct?[/quote] For Lamar's sake, I hope you do get your undergrad at UNLV. With your poor understanding of math, wouldn't want to think that Lamar admitted you! You posted the TOTAL attendance and compared it to the TOTAL attendance for Bearkat football. I assure you that SHSU football out-averaged Lamar's basketball.

[quote name="bigred360" post="822126" timestamp="1280519326"]Blame it on the weather.  ??? ??? SHSU may have had some games with 8k-9k but that wasn't the average for the whole season. Since you are the expert please post your attendance figures for the past five seasons. [/quote] Wouldn't you blame it on the weather if walk-up crowds were a big issue? Though, I'll admit I was wrong. 9.2K on the low end, 10k on the higher end! Again, this past year was absysmal between weather and the head coach. Guess you can quiet down now... Rank School G Attendance Average 29. Sam Houston St. 5 50,381 10,076 - 2008 38. Sam Houston St. 5 48,137 9,627 - 2007 38. Sam Houston St. 5 47,347 9,469 - 2006 36. Sam Houston St. 4 37,074 9,269 - 2005 [quote author=bigred360 link=topic=71281.msg822126#msg822126 date=1280519326]I'm willing to bet with football here our home basketball student attendance will be up. [/quote] You would like to think it will have a direct impact. I'd be interested to see the numbers too. [quote author=bigred360 link=topic=71281.msg822126#msg822126 date=1280519326]I sorry if I ignored Lamar team success in the post. I'll throw in the Lady's basketball team and their success. Plus, they averaged about 1,400 per home contest. About what your men's team averaged with the best HC in the conference. Oh, that's right he is gone now.  :D[/quote] Yep, continue to ignore our team's success and focus more on attendance. What happens when the bunch that is waiting to relive the 1970s and 1980s can no longer come to games?  ;D

[quote name="bigred360" post="822116" timestamp="1280517307"]1. Yes, I am stating the 'community can't deal with a rough start'. We don't want to be like SHSU and average 4,000 for our home games. [/quote] That was due to weather and the head coach. SHSU is a walk-up group and not the season ticket-type. Recent attendance prior to last year shows SHSU draws in the 8k-9.5k annually. Not great, but twice the number you shared. [quote author=bigred360 link=topic=71281.msg822116#msg822116 date=1280517307]2. Agree a successful program doesn't happen over night but there are schools that find some success early on in their program like Florida Atlantic.  [/quote] FAU went 4-6 and 2-9 before making the playoffs in year three. Lost 40-7 in their opener of college football to Slippery Rock. It took several years before they were rolling, going 11-3 in year three. Of note, FIU who started a year later has not had a winning record. Comparisons can be made between Schnelly/Coker and Strock/Woodard.  Strock and Woodard are eerily alike. Both had time in Arena and NFL Europe. Schnelly and Coker had a big year or few at The U. Interesting... [quote author=bigred360 link=topic=71281.msg822116#msg822116 date=1280517307]3. I get the fact you don't like Coach Tubbs but you don't know the situation with Coach Roc. If Lamar fired him it would have cost about $280,000 to buy out his contract. Then to hire another HC, you are talking an additional $140,000 or so yearly. That is over $400,000 which with starting a football program at the same time Lamar didn't have just sitting around. I guess SHSU who for the past eight seasons averaged 20 wins but couldn't put butts in the stands nor keep their HC from leaving for ULL.  ::) I guess he'll get more fan support there as SHSU home average attendance is about 2,000. If Lamar averaged 20 wins for the past 8 seasons our home attendance would be about 6,000-8,000.  ;)[/quote] Always go back to attendance and ignoring your team's lack of success. I've always said that I'd be interested in comparing the amount of students at each school's basketball games.

[quote name="ForeverADog" post="822057" timestamp="1280506746"]I think transfers early are a great thing. It will help us get started early while working the freshman in for some experience in the years to come. Also our team is already balanced with freshman to juniors. What are the other upstarts going to do when they lose 40+ seniors four years from now?[/quote] ODU has 24 transfers in year two of their program. Just 2 or 3 from FBS, the rest JUCOs. Some are new, most played last year. They won seven games against Div I competition in year one. Georgia State has 26 transfers in year one of their program. Even though it is only seven more guys, it is significant due to the roster/scholarship/travel squad size, Lamar has 33 transfers in year ONE of their program. [quote author=NorthoftheBorder link=topic=71281.msg822061#msg822061 date=1280507278]I think the large number of transfers could be for several reasons.  1) Lamar is ramping up their program a little faster and probably is playing a much tougher schedule earlier in the timeline and joining the SLC quicker.  They will need some more experienced and developed players to compete  2) I buy the argument that I saw posted on the board earlier that Woodard also knows the JC ranks a little better right now so he has some inroads that he has taken advantage of.[/quote] I agree on both accounts in the tougher schedule (namely due to joining the SLC quicker) and Woodard's familiarity with JCs. [quote author=bigred360 link=topic=71281.msg822062#msg822062 date=1280507442]For you to be so pro SLC and FCS it would seem to me with 3 SLC teams ranked in Top 25 polls you would understand the reason Lamar went heavy on juco transfers. Lamar has to has early success (wins-losses) to have a good fan base because our region is known for HS football. Coach Woodard and his staff have to make in-roads into these communities and get them excited for local college football on Saturday's. This will not happen if Lamar is getting blown out of stadiums especially versus SLC teams. So to just be recruiting freshman in our situation would be suicide for our program. We can't wait 3-4 years down the road to be competitive. [/quote] So you are stating that the community can't deal with a rough start to the program after the newness wears off and could be "suicide"? Haven't they been dealing with awful Cards basketball for some time now, though still leading the league in attendance by a large margin? A successful program does not happen over night and putting a band-aid on a wound may stop it from bleeding temporarily, but you need to think long-term. Stitches may help! :) Then again, we'll see. I hope I eat crow and Lamar has more success rapidly. I just do not believe it will come to be sustained success via this method, but at least Tubbs is out. We all know how he dealt with a coach, who has not had success... [quote author=bigred360 link=topic=71281.msg822062#msg822062 date=1280507442]Guess you just don't understand our unique situation.[/quote] The one your school created?

[quote name="Ruckdad" post="822047" timestamp="1280505771"]I don't expect us to win at McNeese - but I do expect us to compete as soon as possible.  That's what the transfers are for.  They will bring the younger guys along better than two years of nothing but losing to more experience teams could do.[/quote] I understand the purpose for transfers. I just do not understand the LARGE amount of transfers... [quote author=Ruckdad link=topic=71281.msg822047#msg822047 date=1280505771]What school are you assisting so we can see the blueprint for future success?[/quote] You'll just have to wait and find out. Hard to go public on something that has not been made public...  ;)

[quote name="Ruckdad" post="822032" timestamp="1280502515"]Terror - I generally side with letting you voice your opinion on this forum because you generally have constructive things to say - but I have to disagree with you on this.  Would you rather show up in Lake Charles on September 4 with 22 starting guys that have never taken a snap of college football?  I don't think so.  With the transfers we have some experience on the team.  Besides there's no guarantee that all the transfers are going to start.[/quote] Does your first game really matter? It would seem me that you are looking to get the most out of your overall body of work and advance them a lot in their preparation for taking on the SLC and getting in a good position to battle for a playoff spot in '11, if not '12. I know you guys want to win in Lake Chuck, but you are a start-up. Even with your 20+ transfers who have college experience, you'll be in for a tough position to win the game, because your depth is not there. Am I correct? Can't go two-deep across the 20+ starting positions with transfers, unless Woodard has more guys coming in... [quote author=Ruckdad link=topic=71281.msg822032#msg822032 date=1280502515]Besides, how many college football programs have you started from scratch?  If you are so knowledgeable perhaps you should be on Sam's staff and they wouldn't be picked by the coaches and SIDs to finish near the bottom of the conference this year.   ;)[/quote] SHSU has a new staff. No one is surprised we are at the bottom. You see how we finished last year? And the previous few years? Involved in the starting process of a college program? I'm doing it now and no, not talking about my assistance via the boards to Lamar. Though, I thank Lamar. Your institution is providing examples for [b]what to do[/b] and [b]what not do to do[/b]!

[quote name="Bucof2010" post="822013" timestamp="1280501204"]Why is it an issue to get transfers? [/quote] I do not think it aids the growth of the program. To me, it is looking for a quick fix when a long-term solution is needed. Bringing in 10 new players every year has not served its purpose in hoops, has it?

[quote name="CardAmbassador" post="821952" timestamp="1280461036"]1. There was coverage on the athletic site, don't know what your talking about here.[/quote] Do I have to remind you? Oh wait - the [url=[Hidden Content] link[/url] on the web site does not work. Even the fans on this board noticed the LARGE gaps in coverage. If I recall correctly, there were no write-ups in advance of scrimmages (wouldn't that be something that would get your fans interested?) And another reminder, via [url=[Hidden Content] Sporting News[/url]... [quote]3) Lack of Promotion. It seems many things have fallen under the radar. [b]This past fall, the team was practicing and even conducted several scrimmages. There was limited coverage and what coverage came, seemed to hail from the local television station and the Beaumont Enterprise.[/b] If Lamar has interest in recruiting outside of Southeast Texas and even if that is their sole area of focus, they need to publicize their program. There are many ways to do this and I am sure they can do this at minimal cost.[/quote] That wasn't that long ago - I know we all have memory lapses from time to time! [quote author=CardAmbassador link=topic=71281.msg821952#msg821952 date=1280461036]2. LOL, really? You have delusions of grandeur. I'm pretty sure that a PR campaign was in the mix long before you came around. I think you over estimate your self sometimes.[/quote] I was not the only one complaining about the lack of coverage... [quote author=CardAmbassador link=topic=71281.msg821952#msg821952 date=1280461036]3. How is this a problem? I haven't read an article in any publication that has cited this as a problem, not one. I think he is going about recruitment in just the right way. It doesn't matter though, all of the discussion we have had with you on this point is worthless though. It's all opinion, yours and only yours, vs. ours. If more people were criticizing this move besides your very skeptical self I might be concerned. [/quote] Found an article from [url=[Hidden Content] Sporting News[/url] which discusses Lamar's recruiting philosophy from Feb. 7, 2010... [quote]During their first two recruiting classes, Lamar has leaned heavily on travels. To date, over [b]25 players have transferred to the school from other institutions[/b], including 20 junior college players. [b]UTSA on the otherhand has just two transfers[/b], one of which comes in from Penn State and the other, from Division II Texas A&M-Kingsville.[/quote]

[quote name="bigred360" post="821846" timestamp="1280431515"]Countdown to Kickoff 37 days until opener - Dave Hofferth, now sports director at Beaumont's KBMT TV, Channel 12. He talks about Lamar's victory over AP I-A Top 20 ranked Baylor. LU was the first DI-AA now (FCS) school to beat a ranked DI school on Sept. 8, 1981 by a score of 18-17.[/quote] Was Lamar a I-AA school at the time? I've heard conflicting into and College Football Data Warehouse has nothing. In 1981, McNeese State was still I-A. Wasn't Lamar I-A in the Southland Conference in 1981? Then they dropped out of the SLC and became I-AA Independent the next year? Not 100% sure aware of your timeline. Perhaps it's in your media guide?

[quote name="bigred360" post="821840" timestamp="1280430456"]4. I believe the article he posted shows that there was enough marketing of our program. [/quote] It does not take much for Lamar to show up to SLC Media Day with a coach and for the first time, players! On the web site - the 'first line of defense' - it was really quiet. You guys got NO coverage of spring football from your own people. Your fans had to rely on the Enterprise and PA News. Isn't that when you would start building up interest, especially as your basketball team limped down the finish line? I found it humorous that the countdown to football started after I mentioned on this site (and the other) about Georgia State's countdown and methods of other recent start-ups in promoting their program. [quote author=bigred360 link=topic=71281.msg821845#msg821845 date=1280430757]“[b]Visiting with people who tried to begin programs, they said it was very important to get older quicker[/b]. It’s going to be difficult anyway. But (it would) be extremely difficult to go to McNeese with all freshmen and redshirt freshmen,” Woodard said. “That worked out good, because I was coming out of junior college and brought two junior college coaches with me. We hit the junior colleges pretty hard. And from there making the right decisions on the right transfers to take. You can’t just take every transfer. We got lucky with a number of transfers from the Beaumont area that we felt were good fits.”[/quote] It seems he took that message to heart in a big way...getting more transfers than any program, even the recent ones that I'm aware (thanks to coverage by the media & schools) were talking to and visiting schools. [quote author=bigred360 link=topic=71281.msg821840#msg821840 date=1280430456]1. Well, he doesn't know the budget for football. The funding was not there to hire a "big name" coach.[/quote] Or a coach with NCAA head coaching experience? The thought that you guys would hire a "big name" coach came directly from this board. The speculation regarding Fran and Slocum was ridiculous based on how high their number was and how low Lamar could offer...

[quote name="LUFAN" post="821798" timestamp="1280424110"]How is SHSU in such a better place than LU, what decisions were made that were such bad decisions?? I think LU is on a better track than SHSU in athletics, but since you don't why don't you line out why.  [/quote] 1) Never said that SHSU or LU is on a better track for anything nor will I try to determine that. 2) I've already lined out numerous bad decisions by Tubbs regarding football and his mishandling of Roc.

[quote name="NorthoftheBorder" post="821766" timestamp="1280420309"]We'll see how it plays out.  Looks like Dan Rather State scheduling a lot of SLC schools was mistake as well.[/quote] There's a lot left to be seen "how it plays out"... Several bad decisions (not just in football) made by the previous athletic director. Tidwell has to turn the place around and the good thing is that Woodard has some 'TexasTerror' in his blood. ;)

Ray, no joke! :) [quote]"Maybe that wasn't the smartest scheduling in the world," said Woodard, whose team will play an 11-game independent schedule before it becomes a football-playing Southland member in 2011.[/quote]

FYI... LAKE CHARLES, La. — In a matter of weeks, football season will finally be here. While most players will be returning to their campuses looking to improve, or for defending Southland Conference co-champions McNeese State and Stephen F. Austin, maintain last fall’s success, there’s a different type of anticipation in Beaumont. For the first time in 20 years, the Golden Triangle will once again have college football. An NCAA Division I team will playing games there this fall as the Lamar Cardinals revive their dormant program. [Hidden Content]

That posts reminds me... "Collegiate football is banned at Lamar University. (Beaumont )" Credit: [Hidden Content] You guys figure that one out?  :D

[quote name="bigred360" post="818546" timestamp="1279298038"]We'll save the Bob Marlin talk for later as he left SHSU for ULL. That must have hurt as the Ragin Cajuns were in the "old SLC" and this isn't really a major step up the coaching ladder. :D :D[/quote] Want to talk Marlin to ULL? Marlin reached his height at SHSU. Two NCAA appearances. Would've been nice to win a game in the NCAA, but he put this program in a much better place than he left it. It is much easier to move on from the Sun Belt to a school in the desired SEC. Marlin's not getting younger and if he can turn around ULL in the next 3-to-5 years, may have a chance at the SEC.  He left on great terms with his AD. The situation is not like the one involving Roc and Tubbs. It did not need intervening from the President of the institution...

[quote name="LU Baseball Fan" post="818486" timestamp="1279264475"]Why don't you grouchy folks at least give us a few games, then start ragging, Oh, that's right not a happy camper, so lets rag on Lamar sports.  Hey Hipster must be kin to Baseball25......[/quote] Hey LU Baseball Fan, we're being good 'raggers' since we're talking about legitimate things that all parties are "in the know" about. You'll find that fan bases at other start-ups are breaking down their program in many ways, though based on speculation. At least Woodard's resume and the lengthy list of transfers are known entities. We'll save the Tubbs, Roc talk until later. ;)

[quote name="bigred360" post="818400" timestamp="1279236872"]Sorry, TT 4 isn't several high-profile transfers at the QB position. [/quote] Yes, but can you tell me about notable transfers at other positions? There really are not any outside of Chris Brown (Texas) and perhaps that All-American kicker from Vanderbilt. Outside of that, SHSU does not load up on transfers aplenty nor has any other start-up in the manner that Lamar has. I'm not convinced the Cardinals made the best decision (and we'll learn eventually if this is accurate) as it pertains to roster management. It's a wait and see. For the time being, we can only talk about facts and make comparisons between Lamar and other start-up programs.

For those harping on transfers, SHSU has gotten several high-profile transfers at the QB position. Compared to many FCS schools, especially in the last five years, our transfer numbers from the FBS level have been behind those of other institutions, including those in the league. Take a look at this year's roster. We have transfers from Div I schools Wofford and Jacksonville (non-scholarship). Any others (since Rollison is not announced) come from the JC route with a walk-on addition from a Div III (non-scholarship). On Lamar's roster, I count seven Div I transfers and 25 JUCO or non-Div I transfers. That's 32 players on your roster that have transferred in. Seems a bit much. Compared to UTSA especially at this point. Would be interested to see if that holds true when UTSA begins football in '11. Again, SHSU always sticks out like a "sore thumb" because of the high-profile nature of our transfers and the position they play. Outside of the QBs, our most high-profile transfer of recent years was Chris Brown of Texas.

[quote name="bigred360" post="818119" timestamp="1279135340"]I guess you think Willie Fritz is a "sexy pick"? He lead Blinn JC and Central Missouri prior to taking over for the BearKats; one a juco and the other DII. He definitely didin't make a "splash" around here.[/QUOTE] I do not think Fritz was a "sexy pick", but unlike Woodard - he's got plenty of experience at the top two level of NCAA football. He spent several years as a Division I assistant and plenty more as a Division II head coach. His JUCO head coaching stint is just "bonus". Woodard has not coached at the Division I level, if I read his bio correctly. Nor has he coached at the Division II level. His experience is JUCO football (albeit not long) and as an assistant in two leagues - NFLE and Arena Football - that do not exist. Yes, Arena Football came back as af1 or whatever, but it's not the same league. [quote author=bigred360 link=topic=70946.msg818119#msg818119 date=1279135340]You think you know FCS football and you probably do know more than most but your logic about our transfers and entering the SLC in year two are your opinion and are not based on facts. You can make an arguement either way about the direction the program is going. I guess we'll all know about Ray Woodard by year three or four. You got to give the man at least that long for a startup program. [/quote] FACT - No start-up in the last 5-10 years has entered a full-scholarship Division I FCS league in its first two years. Please look at the clocks for Southeastern Louisiana, Old Dominion, Georgia State, etc. Going back further, I am sure the same exists. So, I guess that is an accurate assessment of your program and fact-based. I'm just going off experience there. As it relates to transfers, you are right. Tough to tell. I'm thinking that there are plenty to be had because a) Lamar needs to be competitive to retain interest in the program, b) a lot of SETX boys wanted to return home or c) all Woodard knows is the JUCO level and it was easier to load up on players from the TX JCs. Either way, we'll know if Woodard was the right or wrong hire in the next few years. Will he outshine fellow upstart coaches? Or will he go the way of Dom Capers for you Houston Texans fans?

I'll agree with hipster. Ray Woodard does not have lengthy head football coaching experience, let alone experience at the Div I level. He has NFLE and Arena League experience, but outside of playing at the Div I level - no experience here. Would've even given him some credit if he was a Div II head coach, since it's not far off from Div I. The hiring of Ray Woodard is one of the two biggest question marks I have on the Lamar program. For all the talk prior to the hiring, this was truly not the "sexy" pick in the least bit. It's not the splash of a Larry Coker or Bill Curry, like some of the other upstarts. Figured Lamar would want the splash hire... The other question mark I have is the recruiting. There's way too many transfers for an upstart program and no matter how you break it down, I just do not see how this will be beneficial for your program over the long run. May come with instant gratification, but could end up stunting the growth some. Wait, guess I have a third one. The entering the SLC in year two. All other FCS programs come into their league in year three. I do not think that was a smart move in the least bit, but probably goes in line with Lamar's risk/reward with the long list of transfers.