UKCats

Tarkington wins 80-61

Tarkington played Caney Creek tonight because Navasota is still in the football playoffs. Final 47-34 Tarkington.

Unfortunately the TECHNICAL FOUL is being used more and more by officials to take control of a game that has already been allowed to get out of hand. I remember in the old days if there was a little "extra curricular" activity after a play the officials would step in and tell the players to "clean it up" and play would continue. The biggest problem is most games are allowed to get out of hand when they could have been controlled better by calling a few more fouls. FORE EXAMPLE. . .if you let a pressure defense (i.e. full court trap) beat up on the guards for 3 quarters then expect the guard to eventually retaliate. These are hormonal high school boys and they are going to defend themselves when backed into a corner. Many would argue that calling more fouls interrupts the pace of play, but if you call a few early to set the tone the players will figure it out and in response will foul less. It just seems like common sense to me.

So it looks like there is life in Tarkington. . .however small it may be

[quote name="FanintheStands" post="953656" timestamp="1295835967"] [quote author=UKCats link=topic=79121.msg953644#msg953644 date=1295834473] See this is where you are mistaken. I think HJ is a great team and I never belittled them. There have been times when I was ashamed of the fans that cheer for my alown ma mater. I believe that HJ has a game that speaks for itself and they do not fans that belittle others all the while calling it "passion". Be supportive of your team and cheer for god's sake. Just realize that on any given night you could be beat by any given team and what will your reactions be when that happens. Will you give the other team the respect that they have quite obviosuly earned or will you get on and run your head about how it was pure luck, our pg was injured, or it won't happen again. Maybe your not the type, but many of your beloved "hecklers are. Overall the message is be a passionate and supportive fan, not an obnoxious one! [/quote]When the hecklers were in their prime (2008 or so), I used to cringe when I'd hear them sing "Na, Na, Hey, Hey, Goodbye" when the game was over.  All I could think of is, "ooh, this is going to haunt us some time in the future".   I had to sit there two weeks ago and listen to the Silsbee faithful sing it with a certain gusto and all I could do was grin and bear it. However, [b]I disagree with your opinion that we should never say, "It won't happen again"[/b].  Anyone who believes in their team should believe that "It won't happen again" when they lose a game. [/quote] I never actually said that you shouldn't ever say "It won't happen again" Just suggesting that maybe "good game" should be the first words out of your mouth. At least in the eye of the public. You can discuss what will or won't happen next time in the locker room or at the dinner table all you want.

If a defensive player has a right to his position (seemingly liner or more flat in nature) then shouldn't an offensive player have a right to his position (more circular in nature when the pivot is taken into consideration) If a defensive player is close enough to catch an elbow on a controlled pivot then I feel he is invading the "POSITION" of the offensive player. Yes or no?

[quote name="FanintheStands" post="953656" timestamp="1295835967"] [quote author=UKCats link=topic=79121.msg953644#msg953644 date=1295834473] See this is where you are mistaken. I think HJ is a great team and I never belittled them. There have been times when I was ashamed of the fans that cheer for my alown ma mater. I believe that HJ has a game that speaks for itself and they do not fans that belittle others all the while calling it "passion". Be supportive of your team and cheer for god's sake. Just realize that on any given night you could be beat by any given team and what will your reactions be when that happens. Will you give the other team the respect that they have quite obviosuly earned or will you get on and run your head about how it was pure luck, our pg was injured, or it won't happen again. Maybe your not the type, but many of your beloved "hecklers are. Overall the message is be a passionate and supportive fan, not an obnoxious one! [/quote]When the hecklers were in their prime (2008 or so), I used to cringe when I'd hear them sing "Na, Na, Hey, Hey, Goodbye" when the game was over.  All I could think of is, "ooh, this is going to haunt us some time in the future".   I had to sit there two weeks ago and listen to the Silsbee faithful sing it with a certain gusto and all I could do was grin and bear it. However, I disagree with your opinion that we should never say, "It won't happen again".  Anyone who believes in their team should believe that "It won't happen again" when they lose a game. [/quote] Thats a fair point, but in the reality of high school sports, understand that it will happen again. That is the reason we all love and watch the game. . .correct? And btw thank you for that example because that it exactly the situation I was trying to portray but could not muster such a perfect example.

[quote name="east texas bb" post="953695" timestamp="1295840777"] I read your entire post, I am just saying there are exceptions and that 1A through 5A should not be called differently.  I have agreed with the majority of your post.  Thought they were good, but you cant call a game different for one classifications than another. The UIL rule book covers all classifications. [/quote] I agree they should not be called different, no one said the rules should be changed. However, all officials must start somewhere. The first few years I called softball it was ASA 10 and unders. I later graduated to 5A state playoff games and some juco ball, but there should be a natural progression. 1A just tends to be the starting point for high school basketball officials because NORMALLY the caliber is slightly less. Not saying they are terrible or that there can't be exceptions, but NORMALLY they seem to be a little easier to call than a 5A game.

It was explained to me like this. . ."regardles of intent if the offensive player makes contact with the defensive player's face and his elbows are above his shoulders it is at least a flagrant foul. Intentional foul and techincal fouls can be called if the official believes the strike was aggresive or intentional." Does anyone else think this is crap?

[quote name="stevenash" post="953288" timestamp="1295789074"] [quote author=UKCats link=topic=79121.msg953278#msg953278 date=1295770688] Great team, great Coach, often times lousy fans with very misplaced emotions. Sure they show up and cheer/ridicule the opposing team, but as far as they are concerned no one else in the state of Texas plays basketball. [/quote] You are so right.  Whatever gave the HJ fans the right to believe that they have a good team?  Whatever gave them the right to defend the team they support against ridicule from others?  Why should they believe that their team is competitive when "experts" have already informed them they have no chance?  Don't they understand that , to respond to criticism (possibly unwarranted) is inappropriate and unfair and gives the appearance that they think HJ is the only basketball program in the state?  Yes, there is no place for the misplaced emotions you so aptly described - especially when they are displayed only by HJ supporters while others display,( via non inflammatory commentary such as "I am an HJ hater" or " I will stop hating HJ if they beat Silsbee"), the purest form of  unbiased and objective commentary.  I don't know about you, but I am getting pretty tired of talking to HJ fans and hearing every one of them declare that no one else in the state of Texas plays basketball.  [b]I think the solution to all of this is to belittle those fans and their team[/b] until they realize that their conduct/ behavior ( unlike any fans from any other teams)  will not be tolerated.  They need to learn that they don't know much about basketball and they should listen to those who do and they should never respond, in kind, to those who question them. [/quote] See this is where you are mistaken. I think HJ is a great team and I never belittled them. There have been times when I was ashamed of the fans that cheer for my alown ma mater. I believe that HJ has a game that speaks for itself and they do not fans that belittle others all the while calling it "passion". Be supportive of your team and cheer for god's sake. Just realize that on any given night you could be beat by any given team and what will your reactions be when that happens. Will you give the other team the respect that they have quite obviosuly earned or will you get on and run your head about how it was pure luck, our pg was injured, or it won't happen again. Maybe your not the type, but many of your beloved "hecklers are. Overall the message is be a passionate and supportive fan, not an obnoxious one!

[quote name="east texas bb" post="953479" timestamp="1295821226"] I agree, I played at a 2A school and we beat the pants off of 3A, 4A, and 5a schools.  And most were from this Region which is the toughest Region not another region. [/quote] Did you guys even read my post?!? I said that there are exceptions to every rule, but if 1A school thought that they could consistently compete with 3A, 4A, and 5A schools then we wouldn't have classifications. The only reason we have them in the first place is because enough people complained about how unfair "class-less" sports were. Sometimes the stars align just right and a 1A school ends up with 3 or 4 really good players on the same team and they beat the lower half of school in larger classifications. But lets be honest the state champion 1A team would more than likely have some trouble with the state champion 5A team. PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE POST BEFORE YOU REPLY!  ;D

[quote name="trophyman" post="953309" timestamp="1295793637"] ukcats you are right but i've seen 1-a and 2-a schools beat 5-a schools in a lot of sports common sense tells you when you have more to choose from you can find better players . this is not always the case and just because your a 5-a school don't give you an automatic win [/quote] Did you guys even read my post?!? I said that there are exceptions to every rule, but if 1A school thought that they could consistently compete with 3A, 4A, and 5A schools then we wouldn't have classifications. The only reason we have them in the first place is because enough people complained about how unfair "class-less" sports were. Sometimes the stars align just right and a 1A school ends up with 3 or 4 really good players on the same team and they beat the lower half of school in larger classifications. But lets be honest the state champion 1A team would more than likely have some trouble with the state champion 5A team. PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE POST BEFORE YOU REPLY!  ;D

Great team, great Coach, often times lousy fans with very misplaced emotions. Sure they show up and cheer/ridicule the opposing team, but as far as they are concerned no one else in the state of Texas plays basketball.

[quote name="jabu84" post="952866" timestamp="1295682036"] [quote author=mfd814 link=topic=78990.msg951204#msg951204 date=1295464936] yes Sir,  call a time out, or I'll call a tech.   If it's a tech, call it.  I do understand water on floor could be a danger if someone falls,  hence why someone was already wiping it up.  [/quote] never called a tech i'll use a delay of game before i use a tech. [/quote] Usually when I see this happen the official calls an "officials time out" and gets someone from the home team to grab a towel and clean it up so that the game can resume safely. Is this not standard protocol?

Same reason March Madness is one of the most watched sporting events on TV. Also the same reason they PLAY THE GAME! Anything could happen.

[quote name="trophyman" post="952972" timestamp="1295716569"] why skill set? we have ten guys on the floor in our games just like they do. [/quote] Sorry off topic a bit, but I can't resist. I believe there are exceptions to every rule. . .but on a regular basis do you really think that a 1A school could compete in a 3A district? Possibly the best kid on a 1A could beat the best kid on a 3A team, but it just seems like common sense to me that a 3A school would have MORE kids with a greater skill set. Again this is excluding the rare exception. JMO

Almost seems irrelevant to me. If he was close enough to catch an elbow on a controlled pivot he was too close. No different than a blocking foul to me. If the defensive player was so close that he drew contact from the offensive player and wasn't "set" (there is some argument here as well) then it's a blocking foul. I like the original rule. . .if a player swings his elbows independent from his pivot it should be an offensive foul, otherwise it's a "no call" or a foul on the defense. Seems to me like this new rule puts a lot of pressure on the officials to protect the ball handler.

I have seen this call go several different ways. I saw a [b]Technical Foul [/b] called for an elbow to the face because the players elbows were above his shoulders even though it was a controlled pivot. Correct me if I am wrong, but if the defensive player was that close then the officials should have been protecting the ball handler and even if the foul was called wouldn't a flagrant foul have been a more appropriate call? 2nd time I saw it happen it was called as a [b]violation, no foul[/b]. It was treated like a travel, double dribble, etc. This was probably the most suprising way I have seen it called. Can anyone, maybe a coach or an official, shed any light on this subject?

Huffman looks like a lock for the third spot in 22-3A this year. Sorry Liberty

I watched a game tonight where a referee (who claimed to be a veteran) watched a team inbound the ball, take 4 or 5 dribbles, make a pass and then granted a time out to the opposing team who was on defense at the time btw. And some people believe these guys shouldn't be held accountable. . .really?!? Please tell me there is an appropriate channel in which to file these complaints so that UIL can realize the err of their ways. IMO this shouldn't be a referee bashing session but a means to a much needed end.

I called high school softball and basketball for almost 6 years while I was in college, and I definitely agree that it is not an easy job. However, if you are going to give an official the authority to take a coaches job then I believe they too should be held accountable. I sat behind a coach that was ejected after another fan sitting behind him called the official a dumba**. The gym was full of tension because the game had been pretty poorly officiated and the coach was not even allowed to plead his case. The official thought the coach had said it and he was escorted out. So a coach, with a job that requires a college degree, had to go to UIL because someone in the stands called an "oversensitive" official a dumba**. There should definitely be some form of accountability!

Does anyone know the history behind why the offense is played at the opposite end of the floor from the bench in the first half and the same end as their bench in the second half? If I were coaching I think I would rather have my defense closer to me in the 2nd half. If there is no "REAL" reason then maybe they should make it an optional rule. Kind of like a home team advantage where the home team gets to decide what end of the floor they use first.

Shepherd won

Is there a score for this game yet? I heard it was cancelled.

[quote name="dreski" post="931330" timestamp="1292111036"] how bout we take a look at the last 5 teams liberty has played... MANVEL..etc... their coach put them in tourneys with better competition to make them better in the long run.. [/quote] I agree. Onalaska is historically a powerhouse bball program.  ???