oldschool2

I found another I'd forgotten about.  Lee Fedora.  He actually embarrassed Coach Thompson and WOS on his way to his first of 2 state titles in Navasota (elite).. and then went to A&M Consolidated for 6 years and couldn't get past the first couple rounds.  What the heck??  That doesn't make sense... He's "elite" so he should've at least gotten back to Austin, right?  I don't understand you're exact way of thinking. 

I found another I'd forgotten about.  Lee Fedora.  He actually embarrassed Coach Thompson and WOS on his way to his first of 2 state titles in Navasota (elite).. and then went to A&M Consolidated for 6 years and couldn't get past the first couple rounds.  What the heck??  That doesn't make sense... He's "elite" so he should've at least gotten back to Austin, right?  I don't understand you're exact way of thinking. 

That's right.. ignore my questions.  That way you'll be right in your own mind. 

That's right.. ignore my questions.  That way you'll be right in your own mind. 

So.. elite coaches only exist in football?  Got it.  
Since that the case... When is Tom Westerberg going to win another one?  He's elite according to your thinking. When is Jeff Kasowski going to win another one?  He won 3 in a row at Bremond.. and hasn't been close since 2016.  What happened with Rick Rhoades?  He won 3 at Cameron Yoe and didn't come close for the next 7 seasons. What happened with Rusty Nail?  He won his second title at Mart in 2010.. then didn't win another for 8 years.  Including not even getting close at 3 years in Madisonville.
Explain to me how these elite coaches became worse coaches... 
By the way.. these are just 3 recent examples.  I'm sure there are tons more.

So.. elite coaches only exist in football?  Got it.  
Since that the case... When is Tom Westerberg going to win another one?  He's elite according to your thinking. When is Jeff Kasowski going to win another one?  He won 3 in a row at Bremond.. and hasn't been close since 2016.  What happened with Rick Rhoades?  He won 3 at Cameron Yoe and didn't come close for the next 7 seasons. What happened with Rusty Nail?  He won his second title at Mart in 2010.. then didn't win another for 8 years.  Including not even getting close at 3 years in Madisonville.
Explain to me how these elite coaches became worse coaches... 
By the way.. these are just 3 recent examples.  I'm sure there are tons more.

Is Phil Danaher an elite coach?  According to your theory.. he would've been fired at Calallen several times over.  Even though he won more Texas high school football games than anyone that's ever coached and reached state finals twice, state semi-finals 11 times, state quarter finals 6 times, and regional finals 9 times.  That's more deep runs than many of your "elite coaches" that you constantly talk about.
So.. again.  Is Phil Danaher an elite coach? Or is he someone that should've been fired?

It's not JUST about wins and losses.  I know it's the nature of the business but sometimes it shouldn't be.  Sometimes it truly is an unfavorable district/classification, in which the season would be completely different if not the case.  Sometimes strong senior classes graduate.  Sometimes good athletes decide not to play for whatever reason.  Sometimes rival teams get a transfer or more.  Or... sometimes you just don't have the horses.  The best trainer in the world won't win a horse race with a donkey.  None of that is the fault of the coach, yet that's who gets the blame every time.  I agree it's on their shoulders but all factors should be considered. 

I agree with you that coaching is the deciding factor when talent is relatively similar. Coaching will even overcome a slightly higher degree of talent.. but there's a limit to that.  Surely even you don't think the greatest 2A coach in all of existence with the best 2A team to have ever played can beat Northshore as they are right now. 

player + coaching + level of competition
Which part of the formula do you not understand? By the way... the last part is the reason the WOS predecessor didn't win a state title every year.  Graduation contributed to that as well (player).  Where does "level of competition" come in to play?  Well... if you'll remember.  WOS couldn't even get out of the region when Carthage was in their classification (level of competition).  Thank goodness UIL came in and split the divisions.  That's when a great coach (C. Thompson) became next level great in your eyes.  
Not to be a buzzkill... but it happened for Newton, Too.  Before the D1/D2 classification split they couldn't get past Cameron Yoe.

Jeez.  Read slowly...
SOC..........HAS..........7..........TOP..........100..........RECRUITS.
Do you understand what it's saying when it says TOP 100 recruits?  You aren't heavily recruited by "out dawging" somebody.  It's speed, strength, skill, size, or all of them. 

Still didn't answer either question.
Does the new coach get credit for someone else's seniors?
Will he replicate this year's success without the 35 senior's he's losing?

players > coaching.  Way more often than not.
players + coaching + level of competition = wins.  Missing any of the 3 is likely detrimental. 
Let's stay on Lumberton.  A couple years ago they won the district championship in basketball.  Their coach was unanimous COY for the district.  Not so much as a sniff the next year... or since.  What happened?  Same exact coach.  Still Lumberton kids.   Oooohh.. that's right.  They had a 6'6 D1 signee on the team.  
Funny how kids make coaches successful.  Disclaimer:  I know Coach Mitchell personally and think he does a fantastic job.  But... it takes players to have success.  I'm positive you'll ignore the example I just gave and the endless others.. but it doesn't change anything.

I agree with you that coaching is the deciding factor when talent is relatively similar. Coaching will even overcome a slightly higher degree of talent.. but there's a limit to that.  Surely even you don't think the greatest 2A coach in all of existence with the best 2A team to have ever played can beat Northshore as they are right now. 

You give people books (articles) and all they do is look at the pictures 😂

Jeez.  Read slowly...
SOC..........HAS..........7..........TOP..........100..........RECRUITS.
Do you understand what it's saying when it says TOP 100 recruits?  You aren't heavily recruited by "out dawging" somebody.  It's speed, strength, skill, size, or all of them. 

The scenario I gave represents a percentage.  What is it with people not understanding odds and liklihoods?.. That doesn't make it certain.  Did you even read the article?
Well here's another article... and the reason SOC won more so than anything else:

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There are always and will always be exceptions to the rule.  Especially when a school gets a run of D1 commits through the program.  Either way.. it's documented that household income, school tax base, and poverty correlate to success in athletics.  To ignore that is just naïve.  You should take a field trip to other areas of the state and look at what poor schools are competing with.  State of art facilities, immaculate neighborhoods, brand new businesses, etc.  Player A (6'4 220) has two working parents, attends summer camps/workouts around the country, has a dietician, has a personal trainer, has a private tutor, has 24hr access to the nicest facilities money can buy, has 3+ of the most nutritious meals imaginable that are specifically designed for health/performance, and has a team full of friends/teammates with the same exact life.  Player B (6'4 220) has to work summers/weekends to help around the house, can't afford sports camp, eats whatever happens to be in the house, lifts/trains alone in a 30 year old weight room when he can find a ride, has zero teammates willing to put in extra work with him.
Who has the head start, Player A or Player B?  If you don't think that and similar scenarios play out across the state... you're either ignorant or stubborn.

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I’ve asked you this before.. but will ask again for the folks in this conversation. And before I do.. not I or anyone else am taking anything away from the obvious knowledge and capabilities of the coaches you mentioned.
If it’s all about coaching, why don’t the same coaches win state championships every year? Literally.. every single year.

players > coaching.  Way more often than not.
players + coaching + level of competition = wins.  Missing any of the 3 is likely detrimental. 
Let's stay on Lumberton.  A couple years ago they won the district championship in basketball.  Their coach was unanimous COY for the district.  Not so much as a sniff the next year... or since.  What happened?  Same exact coach.  Still Lumberton kids.   Oooohh.. that's right.  They had a 6'6 D1 signee on the team.  
Funny how kids make coaches successful.  Disclaimer:  I know Coach Mitchell personally and think he does a fantastic job.  But... it takes players to have success.  I'm positive you'll ignore the example I just gave and the endless others.. but it doesn't change anything.

I guess I should be specific.  When I say wins.. I mean deep win.  Successful playoff runs. Etc.  Of course it's possible to win a lot of games with bad players and good coaching... if the schedule is weak.  Just like good players and good coaches can have mediocre/poor seasons if the schedule isn't conducive for success.  And bad coaches can have a heck of a run with good enough players and a weak schedule.  
Each of those scenarios play out literally every year. 
Make no mistake, there are more bad coaches winning with good players than there is good coaches winning with bad players.
Will someone please freaking address my Bill Belichick example?.. Jeez.  His record WITHOUT Tom Brady is less than .500.  WITH Tom Brady he has like 9 super bowl appearances in two decades. 

players > coaching.  Way more often than not.
players + coaching + level of competition = wins.  Missing any of the 3 is likely detrimental. 
Let's stay on Lumberton.  A couple years ago they won the district championship in basketball.  Their coach was unanimous COY for the district.  Not so much as a sniff the next year... or since.  What happened?  Same exact coach.  Still Lumberton kids.   Oooohh.. that's right.  They had a 6'6 D1 signee on the team.  
Funny how kids make coaches successful.  Disclaimer:  I know Coach Mitchell personally and think he does a fantastic job.  But... it takes players to have success.  I'm positive you'll ignore the example I just gave and the endless others.. but it doesn't change anything.

I'm not exactly familiar to the circumstance to which you're referring.  But.. my post that you replied to happens so often that I'm comfortable saying it's definitely the norm.  Yes, I know there may be exceptions.  There are always are.  

players > coaching.  Way more often than not.
players + coaching + level of competition = wins.  Missing any of the 3 is likely detrimental. 
Let's stay on Lumberton.  A couple years ago they won the district championship in basketball.  Their coach was unanimous COY for the district.  Not so much as a sniff the next year... or since.  What happened?  Same exact coach.  Still Lumberton kids.   Oooohh.. that's right.  They had a 6'6 D1 signee on the team.  
Funny how kids make coaches successful.  Disclaimer:  I know Coach Mitchell personally and think he does a fantastic job.  But... it takes players to have success.  I'm positive you'll ignore the example I just gave and the endless others.. but it doesn't change anything.

It's not JUST about wins and losses.  I know it's the nature of the business but sometimes it shouldn't be.  Sometimes it truly is an unfavorable district/classification, in which the season would be completely different if not the case.  Sometimes strong senior classes graduate.  Sometimes good athletes decide not to play for whatever reason.  Sometimes rival teams get a transfer or more.  Or... sometimes you just don't have the horses.  The best trainer in the world won't win a horse race with a donkey.  None of that is the fault of the coach, yet that's who gets the blame every time.  I agree it's on their shoulders but all factors should be considered.