bobcatfan

I've watched Orangefield play this year and they have a good team, they are improved from last year. They have a few returning players, including point guard Jared Helton, and their best player from last years team, Jeremy Granger. Granger is a post who isnt very tall for this district, but is very athletic, smart and can make shots and finish around the basket. The biggest addition to the team this year is their talented 6'1 sophomore guard Zach Hayes. He played the 2nd half of the year on varsity as a freshman getting some experience as a role player. But this year he has stepped up and playing at a high level, rebounding, driving, and is draining 3's. I think he's one of the players by the end of the year you will have to mention when you name the good players in this area. In addition to Hayes, they a couple good three point shooters and have some good role players who hustle and play defense. Orangefield isnt the type team though that will be winning in shootouts, more like lower scoring games. The majority of their scores in which they win will probably be anywhere from the 40'-60's. So far, HJ and Silsbee have shown they are very good and for real, but nobody else in the district has really stepped up and shown a lot yet. If Orangefield can keep improving and playing to their strengths and abilities, its very reasonable to think they cant make the playoffs this year. On a side note, Orangefield's JV team (comprised mostly of sophomores) is very good, with only one loss this year. 2-3 of them could probably play on varsity, but i imagine they figured the boys would be better served getting a lot of minutes and experience on JV. These guys will be able to step right into varsity next year and be as good as this years team or better. So watch out for this team for the next 2 years after this year and beyond...

Now that we've seen these teams play a few games now and can get a read a little bit on how good these teams are, i thought we should revisit this topic. Now i know it still might be a little early to say how good Jasper, WOS, and Kirbyville are since their football just ended. But how many guys from the football team contribute a lot to the bball team from WOS and Jasper? I heard only a couple guys from WOS that play football play bball, not sure about Jasper and Kirbyville though. If anyone can answer that question, feel free to post that here. So WOS played Nederland a couple times now and lost by 20+ and Orangefield just beat Nederland in Nederlands gym. Not to mention, they already beat Bridge City(who questioned why they werent on this poll???) I said Orangefield was a good darkhorse candidate and i think that is looking good right now. I havent seen really any Jasper scores to date so not real sure about them, i guess i could say the same for Kirbyville... Anyways, what are yalls thoughts now? Who do you like of the 4 teams contending? Rank the teams in order of how you think they will finish for the final playoff spot (assuming HJ and Silsbee gets 1-2).

I agree with Coop...if you want to see him get the honor you have to nominate him... Those 31 and 38 pt performances did come against Centerville and Colmesneil though. I've seen Centerville this year, they are very very weak this year and Colmesneil has been very bad in recent years and could come in last in district... All that being said, Copeland is one of the better players in the area still, i have no doubt he could get a player of the week award most weeks....

[Hidden Content] whsalum, you asked...i delivered... Its a big bracket, sorry if its confusing.. Lets hear some predictions... who comes in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and consolation game? Get involved on Eastexsports.com and post your thoughts and predictions on there also.. i know we have some people here that know about some east texas basketball...

[Hidden Content] Twins get Delmon Young, Brendan Harris and outfield prospect Jason Pridie Rays get Matt Garza, Jason Bartlett, and pitcher Eduardo Morlan My reaction to this trade is that its pretty good for both sides. The Twins are trying to replace Hunters outfield power in getting Delmon Young, who is a highly touted prospect with a lot of upside. Brendan Harris is a middle infielder who can hit for a little power. The Rays get Matt Garza who pitched just under 100 innings with a sub 4.00 era, so he has some upside. They get shortstop Jason Bartlett who can steal some bases, plus they get a minor league pitcher. So the Twins look like they were trading to get some more power and got it and the Rays needed pitching badly and got some help there...

I heard 2 of the teams i listed, Broaddus and Martins Mill, played each other in a tournament last week. I heard it was a close game, MM was winning most of the game but then it was tied after 3 quarters, but Martins Mill ended up winning 44-34. I heard neither team played well, Broaddus missed easy shots and took bad shots. Both of these teams were fairly evenly matched, Broaddus was a little more athletic, but Martins Mill was just better in the end. This could possibly be a preview of the regional final, but obviously anything can happen, and there are several other teams in the mix that are right there and could challenge for it.

I've seen them play, they are pretty good. I believe they are undefeated so far, played 6-7 games, winning the Bridge City JV tournament. This group is basically all sophomores with a junior or 2. They have a very good starting 5 and have a couple solid guys that can come off the bench also. They have a couple good shooters and have pretty good fundamentals and instincts, i think sometimes they dont play as a team as well as they could. This team is worth watching because a handful of these guys will be playing significant minutes the next 2 years on varsity. The varsity this year and the next 2 years will be very competitive and interesting to watch because of this sophomore class. If you wanted to check out Orangefields varsity, i'd come a little early and watch some of the JV team too.

I would say it was a little bit of both but probably more of the latter. Orangefield played their whole bench from the 2nd qtr on, if they wouldve played the starters regular minutes it couldve been worse. Orangefield has 3 starters that just got out of football so they will only get better. Unless Buna has some people out with injuries or grades i didnt see much there, sorry just being honest. If Orangefield can keep improving and get better they could be a sleeper team in this district.

Teams expected to be in the tournament: Zavalla Brookeland Corrigan Camden Diboll Kennard Woden Central Wells Woodville Warren Kelly Slocum Lovelady Trinity Newton Lets hear some predictions...who is the best 3-4 teams in this tournament? Who will come out on top? I should get a bracket some time soon...

I've seen a couple threads about who will win 21-3A, and i think the obvious answers to that question is either HJ or Silsbee. I think barring injuries or grades both of those teams should have no problem making the playoffs. So really you are just arguing about who is better when both will likely be in the playoffs anyway. I think the more intriguing question really is who will be the 3rd playoff team from this district. Everyone seems to think WOS and Jasper will be very good, and Orangefield has a good young team (although they might be a year away) and possibly a darkhorse. But what do yall think? Who of these 4 do you like the most? I would like to hear some analysis from those familiar with this district...

I wont claim to know everything about these players but i'll give you my read on the deal. The biggest part of this deal is Michael Bourn. He becomes our everyday center fielder and probably leadoff guy. In the minors in 06' in 118 games combined double A and triple A numbers he had a .277 average with .356 OBP and 45 steals and only caught 5 times, and 13 triples. In the majors in 07' he had 119 AB's last year he batted .277 with a .348 OBP and 18 stolen bases. Thats not a great batting average but the on base percentage is good and thats a lot of SBs for 119 abs. He was the Phillies 4th outfielder last year with Rowand, Victorino, and Burrell. I believe Bourn was brought in a lot for his defense and speed and was able to steal bases. This trade probably means the phillies will try to re-sign Rowand. Reading the Phillies message board, most of the posters were not happy to see Bourn go, so they must have seen some good upside in the 24 year old. My impression in the limited time i got to see him play was that he was a pretty good player. Geoff Geary should be a solid reliever for the astros. The 31 year old played 3 seasons for the phillies posting a 3.72 and 2.96 era the first 2 years then going 4.41 last year. The minor leaguer Costanzo had good minor league numbers, displaying some power hitting .270 and hitting 27 home runs, although i read somewhere he struck out 290 times in 2 seasons in the minors. I think the Phillies considered him a pretty good 3B prospect and with his power, if he gets a little more plate discipline he could help the astros possibly down the road if Ty Wigginton is not the answer at 3B (which i fear is probable). Overall, this trade could be pretty good for the astros, mainly because Lidge is going to cost a lot of money now and he has injury concerns and other concerns. Bourn is a young outfielder with tools to be pretty good (and i think he comes at a pretty cheap price) with Geary being a solid arm for the bullpen. You never know how the 3B prospect will turn out, but there is potential. Bruntlett was a good super utility player for the astros, but was never going to start for them so i dont know that he was a big loss, i think hes replaceable. At least we know now we probably wont be throwing a lot of money at big time free agents Torii Hunter and Aaron Rowand, who i believe will probably both be grossly overpaid. I'm not sure just how good Rowand will be long term, and i think Hunter is on the downside of his career. What do yall think of my assessments?? Do yall like the trade?

Yes, they will be improved this year. I was actually going to make a post about them on the "surprise teams" thread but since you started a thread about Orangefield i'll talk about them here. They came in 5th place last year in district and lost only a couple seniors but they get their best player in Jeremy Granger and their point guard Jerod Helton back. And to answer your other question Ricthepic, they did have a very talented 9th grade team last year. The 9th grade team last year only lost to 2 teams last year, HJ and Silsbee, and that was without their 2 best freshmen, 1 was on JV and the other was on varsity. I dont know how many of those talented sophomores will be on varsity, i know at least 2 maybe up to 4 or 5. The player to watch on this Orangefield team that you'll hear his name more this year is Zach Hayes. Hes a sophomore guard over 6 ft that has some skills and can shoot the 3 very well. I think this team has the potential to challenge for the 3rd place in 21-3A with WOS and Jasper. With all the talented sophomores, this OF bball team will only get better over the next couple years, and they are definitely a team watch and look out for in this district.

I thought this would make an interesting debate for astros fans. There are 2 names you will probably notice that are omitted from this list: Billy Wagner and Roger Clemens. I left off Wagner because i think its too hard to argue a closer vs a starter, and i left off Clemens because this is an astros all time pitcher question and Clemens only pitched 3 seasons for the astros. I think you can make a good argument for most of these pitchers on the list for various reasons. Joe Niekro is the all time wins leader for the astros and had 2 20 win seasons. Larry Dierker is 2nd all time in wins and 1st in innings pitched and complete games and shutouts for astros pitchers. Mike Scott was the 86' Cy Young winner and 86' ALCS MVP (in a losing effort), although his brilliance was over a short period of time. JR Richard had some very impressive seasons, and I never watched him pitch but have heard he was the most dominating and devastating pitcher the astros ever had at any time. Its unfortunate he could play out his career healthy because he might very well be number 1 on this list. Nolan Ryan is the most popular name on this list, but he wouldnt get my vote because in 9 seasons, he only won over 14 games twice (14,16) and didnt pitch over 200 innings in 4 of those seasons. But my vote goes to Roy Oswalt. I think this question will be easier to answer in 5 years when he is (hopefully) closing in on 200 wins and hopefully some Cy Youngs. But among all the pitchers listed, he has by far the best winning percentage. He also has the lowest walk rate and the lowest ERA. And while he hasnt won a Cy Young yet, he has 5 top 5 finishes, which is more than anyone on this list, which shows his great consistency. And most importantly, he was the 05' NLCS MVP, he pitched the astros into their only world series, something astros fans will never forget....

I was at the game last night. I think at the start of the game the size of the crowds was pretty close (OF might have had a few more). The 2nd half wasnt even close. In the 4th quarter, from where i was sitting, it looked like Orangefields crowd outnumbered Bridge City by at least 3 or 4 to 1. I will say that Orangefield, despite being one of the smallest schools in the district, supports their teams very well in most sports. You wouldnt know they were a much smaller school than their opponent by going to their games, and i would say i'm proud of that. For anyone that was curious to know just how small the crowd from BC was in the 4th qtr, i took this pic at the end of the game, it was pretty empty....

Since we were on the topic of 1A district predictions i figured we could look at the whole region and see who everyone thinks will be the top contenders in region 3. Here's a short list i came up with, see what yall think: Cayuga- Made a run in last years playoffs, ranked high in the preseason, young and athletic. Martins Mill- Always in contention because they have a great program (and its widely rumored they recruit) although they may not be as good as last year. Big Sandy- Didnt lose anyone and ranked high, expect to make a run in the playoffs. Broaddus- Went a couple rounds in the playoffs, expected to be good again. Slocum- Didnt lose much to graduation, made it to 2nd round last year and expected to be better. Zavalla- Dont know much about them but heard they looked really good in summer league. I dont know much about some of the districts like district 17 18 and 20 especially. But other teams i would watch out for would be Lapoyner, Mount Enterprise, North Hopkins and Avery. What do yall think? would like to hear some opinions from people that know a little about the region. wshalum and ugahoopz seem to know about basketball outside this area so i'd be interested to hear their opinions.

The Orange softball league is starting back up in October. The league needs some more teams though, so if you are interesting in entering a team in the league you can. The league has no set start date, it will start as soon as more teams sign up and there are enough to start a league. The number to call to get in the league is 746-0029, ask for Ricky.

Well, thats great WOS92 that WOS won in 2000 being one of the smallest 4A schools in texas, quite an accomplishment. Lets face it though, you are fortunate to be a fan of WOS which is probably the only elite football program this area (there are a lot of good ones but not elite except maybe Newton). I think its real easy to complain about the new realignment plan when you are an elite program and can play with anyone in size. But try being a fan of a small school like Orangefield thats traditionally been a small 3A school for a long time and is now pretty much playing mostly old 4A teams now that moved down to 3A. Half of the teams they played 10-20 years ago are now in 2A. Most of the districts look totally different than they did 10 years ago so rivalries have already been effected for a while, so your rivalry argument is weak. Since most teams have 2-4 non district games they could play their former district rivals then (like LCM and WOS). Orangefield has no rivalry with any of these former 4A teams which is half the district now, i know you will say BC but they just moved down to 4A less than 10 years ago and didnt really play OF on a year to year basis till after 2000 to start a rivalry really. And yeah, OF has made the playoffs since 2000, but WOS and Silsbee werent in the district yet. I know Orangefield and some of these other small schools dont have traditional big teams, but you cant sit through a game with OF vs WOS or Silsbee or other big 3A schools and honestly say they should be playing in the same district/classification, the size difference between the kids of both schools is an obvious disadvantage. If you just looked at the size of the schools and teams on the schedule, Orangefield looked a lot closer to EC and Buna in size on the field, and thats because they are close in enrollment. The new realignment plan is totally fair for everyone. WOS92, you pointed out in another post that the difference in travel between old and new districts is 100 miles or so. If you average it out, thats only like 20 more miles on average more of travelling distance for 3-4 away games a season. If you are going to "whine" about travelling a little further for 3-4 games a year, i think most people on this board like myself see that as sour grapes for a plan that gives many schools in this area and statewide a lot better chance to succeed against schools their own size and making more competitive balance. I think if you going to have a big school and small school state champ from each classification, this realignment plan makes sense and is necessary. In my opinion, if they dont realign the schools to make a true small school and big school districts for each classification, they should just do away with big and small school state champs in each class and have just one state champ for each class. A good example of why: wasnt the 5A div II state champ bigger than the div I state champ in recent years? The system now is just flawed, because the of the disparity in enrollments between districts creates some big schools getting in the playoffs as small schools and some small schools forced to play in the big school playoffs because the small enrollment #'s in their district. Plus, many small schools are left out of the current playoffs that would normally make the playoffs if they played under the new realignment plan. I also think if they are gonna do this new realignment plan for football, they should extend it to baseball and basketball also. Its hypocritical to say its unfair to small schools playing big schools only in football and change it and not do the same for other sports. Because those same disadvantages for football, also exist in the other sports. What do yall think of my ideas, yall agree with me?

Astrodome Minute Maid Park Ballpark at Arlington Busch Stadium (new) Wrigley Field US Cellular Jacobs Field Great American Ballpark Shea Stadium Yankee Stadium (ballpark tour) Citizens Bank Park RFK Stadium Turner Field Herschel Greer Stadium (AAA Nashville Sounds) I would bet thats the most parks anyone on this board under 30 years old has seen....

I think this is kind of a knee jerk reaction by the owner, especially considering its during the season and i dont think a change in manager is going to make a difference this season like it did when jimy williams was fired. I can understand the Purpura firing a little more, none of his moves have really worked out to date, like Woody and Jennings (although hes been hurt all season so who knows about that). I almost always think manager firings are dumb, because does anyone really think another manager couldve done better with this roster? Garner had to deal with Jennings and Woody's above 5.00 era all season, wandy's road era woes, sampson injury, the early bullpen struggles, berkman's early stuggles and subpar year to date. You put all that together and I think Garners hands were tied and he did about as good as he could. I liked Garner because he was a good manager who was willing to mix things up and be creative, he was a nice guy and likeable person off the field, and was a guy who was a former astro and fit well into the community. Drayton better have a good hire ready or have someone good in mind because it will look bad if he cant get a good replacement by next year. And i hope he takes the time and goes out and gets a good GM, i think a quality GM could make a big difference down the road.

For those who werent there or didnt stick around to see it, here were the results of the Battle for Beaumont softball tournament this past weekend that had 13 teams: 1st place- TKO (from louisiana) 2nd place- Thunder (out of houston) 3rd place- Fury (Beaumont league-lower) 4th place- Chickenhawks (Beaumont league-upper) I had a lot of fun in this tournament, thanks to the Outsiders for putting it on. Also for letting us play, the fields were kinda wet and muddy and we got to play through it anyway. Since there will be no fall softball league, hopefully we can have some more tournaments like this in beaumont in the next couple months...

Yes. I play in a YMCA mens basketball league currently. I play at the YMCA near Fannett road in Bmt, but i've also played in a league at the YMCA in Port Arthur also. The league i'm playing in now will be over in about 3 weeks, i dont know when the next league will start up, just give them a call and ask. From my experience, most of the teams i've played against in both leagues i've been in are pretty good and very athletic. I used to also play in a mens league at FBC Orangefield for a couple years till the hurricane hit, ever since then though they've had to used their gym as a sanctuary. But their sanctuary might be ready by the end of the year, so they might have the gym to be able to have a spring mens league then. If you're interested in that league, give them a call at the end of this year or beginning of next year to find out if they are having a league. I hope this helps you, if you have any questions, PM me.

This is a really long poll....I put a lot of options there for astros fans though. I'm sure there are a few you could argue i left off. Just in case i did, i put an other category, you can write it in on this thread if you like. But i covered most of them, ranging from the older to recent astros players. I suspect someone from the top 4 or 5 will get the most votes, but i also wanted to see who else would get a few votes. I added Brad Ausmus to see how many ladies are on this board (because no guy should or would ever vote for Ausmus). I also added Clemens since he was so beloved before he went back to his "hometown" in New York. I'll be surprised if he gets a vote.

[Hidden Content] This will help you make some decisons in your league and hopefully make your fantasy draft a better experience.

I excluded the AL because i wanted to leave out all the Yankees-Red sox votes, and i figured the Yankees were an automatic #1 anyway. I figure the Cubs and Mets will get a lot of votes, with the Braves getting a few and maybe a few for the Cards since they have been healthy rivals (although i respect the Cards, dont hate them). I threw in the Astros just to see how many people on this board dont like them, i cant imagine its many at all. I went through each team and figured out if there was a good reason people would hate them, so if i couldnt really then i left them off, which was the Brewers, Pirates, Reds, Padres, Rockies, Dbacks, Nats, Marlins, but did make an "other" category for them.

In case people didnt go to the link or the link didnt work, here is the blog I wrote in its entirety. (its kinda long, i know) If you like it or have something to say please post comments on my page as well as here. After making a world series appearance in 2002 and having consecutive 90 wins in 03'and 04', the San Francisco Giants posted consecutive sub .500 seasons in 05' and 06'. Brian Sabean, the GM of the Giants, was on the hot seat and under pressure to make a splash in free agency. With the NL West projected to be very tough from top to bottom, it was clear to Sabean and the Giants they needed more help and adding one big player could possibly put them over the top. Plus you had Barry Bonds unsigned and they needed to prove to him they were trying to be a contender this year so he wouldnt retire or sign with another club. Pressure was mounting in the 07' offseason as all the biggest names were coming off the board. Here's a list of the 6 biggest free agent signings and their contracts they had inked up until the point before Zito signed with the Giants: Jason Schmidt, LA Dodgers: 3 years 47 million Gil Meche, KC Royals: 5 years 55 million Ted Lilly, Chicago Cubs: 4 years 40 millon Jason Marquis, Chicago Cubs: 3 years 27 million Daisuke Matsusaka, Boston Red Sox: 6 years 52 million Jeff Suppan, Milwaukee Brewers: 4 years 40 million When you take a look at those contracts, your first reaction is wow. Thats a lot of money being thrown around, averaging in the range from 9-14 million a year for pitchers who really arent considered aces. Schmidt you might could say that for, but age and durability concerns i think wouldnt qualify him for that tag and Matsusaka was a total unknown. You really had no idea how his game would stack up against the MLB hitters. Meche, Lilly, Marquis and Suppan are marginal #2 or 3 pitchers on a staff at best. Those guys posted an era between 4.00 and 4.50 last year and Marquis's era was over 6! So with all these average pitchers signing huge deals already, you know this set up for a perfect storm for Barry Zito's agent, Scott Boras. Boras is notoriously known now around all of baseball and all sports for getting his players signed to deals that are usually far above their projected market value. His most notable clients are Alex Rodriguez and Carlos Beltran. Boras got the Texas Rangers to big against themselves, awarding Arod to the richest contract in baseball history, 10 years 252 million dollars. Boras got the Astros and Mets in a bidding war for Carlos Beltran using the Astros as leverage for Beltrans monstrous 7 year 119 million dollar contract he signed with the Mets. Barry Zito had been one of the most durable pitchers in the last previous 6 seasons, logging at least 34 starts and at least 210 innings a season. Zito had a Cy Young award under his belt from 2002, and carried a lot more name recognition and sizzle than the other 6 highest highest paid free agent pitchers. Thats all the ammunition Boras needed to sign Zito with the desperate Giants to one of the biggest contracts for a pitcher in baseball history: 7 years 126 million dollars. Lets now fast forward to the present and take a look at how all these pitchers are doing currently and compare their numbers. (gs= games started, qs= quality starts) Barry Zito 7-10 5.28 era 21 GS 10 QS Gil Meche 7-7 3.76 era 22 GS 14 QS Daisuke Matsusaka 12-7 3.79 era 21 GS 13 QS Ted Lilly 11-4 3.46 era 21 GS 13 QS Jason Marquis 7-6 4.20 era 21 GS 9 QS Jeff Suppan 8-9 5.08 era 22 GS 8 QS Jason Schmidt 1-4 6.31 era injured Looking at those numbers, you can say that some of those pitchers are living up to their contracts based on their previous numbers. Lilly has probably done the best, and Matsusaka wont win the Cy Young, but 12 wins, on his way to a 17-19 win season is looking very good for Daisuke and the Red sox. Meche certainly has been a pleseant surprise for the Royals, and has stepped up as their ace (albeit for the Royals). Marquis's era is decent and Suppan's is worse than average, but both players are on contending teams and have given their teams valuable innings, saving the bullpen. Jason Schmidts deal is looking pretty bad, but considering its only a 3 year deal and worth 80 million less, its not quite is big of an issue as Zito's contract. And then there's Barry Zito, who has the 4th worst era in the NL of pitchers who have made at least 20 starts, 7th worst in all the majors. Only Scott Olsen, Adam Eaton, Matt Belisle, Jose Contreras, Odalis Perez and Jorge de la rosa are worse than Zito right now. Lets see how Zito compares on his own team in relation to their stats this year and their current salaries: (gs= games started, qs= quality starts) Barry Zito 7-10 5.28 era 21 GS 10 QS, 10 million, 7yrs 126 mil Tim Lincecum 6-2 3.90 era 15 GS 10 QS , (? minor league deal, under 1 mil?) Noah Lowry 11-7 3.40 era 20 GS 12 QS, 1.3 million, 4yr 9.25 mil Matt Cain 3-12 4.02 era 21 GS 12 QS, 650,000, 4yr 9 mil Matt Morris 7-6 4.16 era 20 GS 12 QS, 10 million, 3yr 27 mil Looking at the rotation's total salary, Zito makes around 80 million total more than the other 4 pitchers combined. Clearly, Zito is the lowest performing starter of the 5. If Tim Lincecum had pitched all year, he would have more than 10 quality starts, giving Zito the least amount of quality starts and the highest ERA. Matt Cain has more losses, but has definitely outpitched Zito and his losses are more a product of bad run support. Given how much free agent pitchers were being paid in the 07' offseason, Cain and Lowry look like great bargains at this point, unlike Zito. Zito's stats are so bad, if he was just any young pitcher out there, he'd be sent down to the minors. But given his salary and track record, he will be forced to work it out in the majors. Looking back, would anyone have predicted Zito would be this bad? The answer to that would be no. Some thought a move to the NL would boost his numbers but they have done the opposite. But i think if the Giants management would looked closer at the numbers, they would know that Zito is not near the pitcher he was back in 2002. Here is Zito's numbers from his rookie year to present: Year Team GS W L IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA 2000 OAK 14 7 4 92.2 64 30 28 6 45 78 2.72 1.18 .195 2001 OAK 35 17 8 214.1 184 92 83 18 80 205 3.49 1.23 .230 2002 OAK 35 23 5 229.1 182 79 70 24 78 182 2.75 1.13 .218 2003 OAK 35 14 12 231.2 186 98 85 19 88 146 3.30 1.18 .219 2004 OAK 34 11 11 213.0 216 116 106 28 81 163 4.48 1.39 .263 2005 OAK 35 14 13 228.1 185 106 98 26 89 171 3.86 1.20 .221 2006 OAK 34 16 10 221.0 211 99 94 27 99 151 3.83 1.40 .257 2007 SF 21 7 10 121.0 121 77 71 15 58 81 5.28 1.48 .260 When you look at Zitos first full 3 seasons, 01'-03', he was a very good pitcher and one of the best no doubt. But if the Giants management wouldve examined his last 3 seasons in 04'-06' they should've noticed several red flags. First and most noticable to the average fan would be his era. Between 01-03 he had an average era of around 3.20, between 04-06 it was around average around 4.10, almost a full run higher. So his last 3 years in Oakland, he was only marginally better than a league average pitcher. The next red flag that shouldve been noticed is Zitos rising WHIP (walks+hits/innings pitched). From 01-03, his WHIP was between 1.13 and 1.23, which is very good. A good pitcher wants to keep a WHIP in the 1.20-1.30 range (elite pitchers are usually between 1.00 and 1.20). The average pitcher's WHIP might be around 1.30 to 1.40 or higher. Zito's WHIP in 04' and 06' rose from 1.20 in the first 3 years to 1.39 and 1.40. His BAA, batting average against, which was lower than .230 his first 3 seasons, was significantly higher in 04' and 06' rising around 30 pts to .257 and .263. Zito averaged around 20 homers allowed in his first 3 seasons, which is pretty good, most good pitchers allow less than the low 20's. His last 3 seasons though he averaged 27 home runs allowed which is worse than the average MLB pitcher. In addition to all those stats, his strikeout rate decreased the last 3 seasons, and with the higher BAA, Zito was giving up about a hit per inning. Many of Zitos numbers across the board in his last 3 seasons with Oakland were average or just below average. Barry Zito's contract may end up being historically bad, and it was already being talked about before the season even started ([Hidden Content]). This deal is already being compared to the recent disasters of deals like Mike Hampton and Kevin Brown. Zito is traditionally a better 2nd half pitcher, so he could turn it around and post respectable numbers by the end of the year. But no matter what he does he wont be worth what he signed for. In fact, i think its already its already turning into a disaster for Zito in SF. I watched his last start on friday, and Zito was getting booed off the field. Listening to the announcers and analysts talk about Zito, there could be something wrong with Zito physically and mentally. San Francisco is not a franchise like the Yankees or Red Sox that has an unlimited payroll, and Zito's deal for 18 million a year could handcuff the franchise for years. This deal could be the deathnail for GM Brian Sabean. After another year of last place finish for the Giants, dont be surprised if he doesnt return to the Giants next season. I also wouldnt be surprised if Zito is traded in the next couple years, with the Giants eating most of the contract just to get him out of town. So what have we learned from all of this? First and foremost, Scott Boras, while not a very well liked guy in sports, is very very good at his job and gets his clients paid. Zito probably didnt even deserve 10 million a year, much less 18 million and year and Boras got him his money. Secondly, with the amount of teams in the league and the current crop of pitching, good pitching is high demand and teams realize its great starting pitching that wins championships, so they will continue to pay high dollars. Thirdly, if you are going to throw big money at free agent, he better be an elite player with no questions about his talent. I think there was no question there was a lot of uncertainty about Zito's talent, given his current performance in the past 3 seasons. Like what most small market ballclubs will do, its sometimes better financially to give a young guy a chance than throw big money at a marginal veteran pitcher. The astros did something similar to this on a much lower level, giving Woody Williams a 2 yr/12 million dollar deal in which he has returned them a era over 5.00 so far. They will face a similar type decision on Jason Jennings next season (if they dont trade him), for his value on the deflated pitchers market will likely be in the range of 6-10 million a year. Hopefully the astros dont fall into the same pitfall the Giants did. The more teams get burnt by these overpriced pitchers, you figure the price of pitching will go down. But as long as theres a high demand for good pitching, and agents like Scott Boras are still out there, history will likely continue to repeat itself.