Athletecism vs Intellect

[Honest Abe]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1197746" timestamp="1331839873"]
[quote author=Rockin A link=topic=97596.msg1197735#msg1197735 date=1331838649]
Majic or Magic?

Magic & Bird are about as equal as two stars can be.  I'll admit I'm biased, and as such, Bird would be the focus of my team.  I'd take a quiet leader over a flashy one any day. 

P.S.  Who is this "Majic" the former assistant coach keeps referring to?
[/quote]
Auto correct on my cell phone...it is MAGIC....The "former assistant coach" has forgotten more basketball than most of you know...think about that one for a moment..... Once again [b]I don't
know HOW this became about ME again, but it is only one man's HUMBLE opinion[/b].
[/quote]
Maybe bc of comments like this:

...[b]we all know who the better player is Nash....Magic[/b].. (Does anyone see ANY arrogance to this statement other than me?)

Or maybe this? Any arrogance in the following statement??

.[b]Ask ANY person that knows basketball who they would start a team with Bird or Magic...I am sure the vast unbiased majority would say Magic Johnson...its pretty obvious.[/b]

One does not have to be a coach to 'know' basketball as you claim. Yet, when someone (such as Nash or RockinA or myself) have an opinion different than yours, you talk to them as if you are 'superior' bc you have coached at the HS level. You ask why every other topic is about you? Here is your answer. You talk down to people. Whether you do it intentionally or not, MOST people on here read it that way as well. So in (natural) defense, people question as to why your OPINION is THE TRUTH! People have opinions. Just bc you don't agree with them doesn't mean your OPINION is THE TRUTH!


Does one have to be a coach in HS to have bball knowledge? I think not!

[Dick Vitale]

Coached (high school and college) played, and have been around and in and out of gymnasiums for longer than most on here...yeah..I'm THAT guy...However, I am not "talking down" on anyone on here! My OPINION is that Magic was better than Bird...What in the world is wrong with THAT? No, you do NOT have to be a coach to have basketball knowledge, but to question MY intellect as it pertains to it, just does not make much sense.  I know what I know...WHY do you folks on here want me to just back down when it comes to what I KNOW? My opinion holds no more weight than the next man, but MINE IS based on years of experience...Hands on, and sideline...You can't just discount that.  Arrogant? No...I just know what I know, and some of you just don't know what you really don't know..SOME OF YOU...NOT ALL.  Not just about THIS topic either...I see some of the most RIDICULOUS comments in the world on here...Its downright laughable at times.  I just try to help educate when I can.

[stevenash]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1197760" timestamp="1331841165"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=97596.msg1197756#msg1197756 date=1331840733]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=97596.msg1197746#msg1197746 date=1331839873]
[quote author=Rockin A link=topic=97596.msg1197735#msg1197735 date=1331838649]
Majic or Magic?

Magic & Bird are about as equal as two stars can be.  I'll admit I'm biased, and as such, Bird would be the focus of my team.  I'd take a quiet leader over a flashy one any day. 

P.S.  Who is this "Majic" the former assistant coach keeps referring to?
[/quote]
Auto correct on my cell phone...it is MAGIC....The "former assistant coach" has forgotten more basketball than most of you know...think about that one for a moment..... Once again I don't know HOW this became about ME again, but it is only one man's HUMBLE opinion.
[/quote]

I suspect you are underestimating the basketball credentials of a number of posters on here (me NOT included) and, as a result, that corridor between your knowledge and theirs may very well not be as wide as you believe it is.  I am curious about this oxymoron- " Has forgotten more basketball than most of you know" vs " one man's HUMBLE opinion"
[/quote]
Pure SARCASM....The HUMBLE opinion part....I know what I know, Nash...Not going to back down about that...
[/quote]

Don't expect you to back down.  Do expect you to understand (and this is where you are a little Naive) that there are lots of opinions out there and a sufficient number of them are valid ( the question then becomes "valid in whose eyes". This is where you create the impression that you believe only your eyes matter)  You know basketball but you ARE NOT, under any circumstance, the last word on it.  There are a million ways to skin a cat, and your way is simply one of them.

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1197794" timestamp="1331846707"]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=97596.msg1197760#msg1197760 date=1331841165]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=97596.msg1197756#msg1197756 date=1331840733]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=97596.msg1197746#msg1197746 date=1331839873]
[quote author=Rockin A link=topic=97596.msg1197735#msg1197735 date=1331838649]
Majic or Magic?

Magic & Bird are about as equal as two stars can be.  I'll admit I'm biased, and as such, Bird would be the focus of my team.  I'd take a quiet leader over a flashy one any day. 

P.S.  Who is this "Majic" the former assistant coach keeps referring to?
[/quote]
Auto correct on my cell phone...it is MAGIC....The "former assistant coach" has forgotten more basketball than most of you know...think about that one for a moment..... Once again I don't know HOW this became about ME again, but it is only one man's HUMBLE opinion.
[/quote]

I suspect you are underestimating the basketball credentials of a number of posters on here (me NOT included) and, as a result, that corridor between your knowledge and theirs may very well not be as wide as you believe it is.  I am curious about this oxymoron- " Has forgotten more basketball than most of you know" vs " one man's HUMBLE opinion"
[/quote]
Pure SARCASM....The HUMBLE opinion part....I know what I know, Nash...Not going to back down about that...
[/quote]

Don't expect you to back down.  Do expect you to understand (and this is where you are a little Naive) that there are lots of opinions out there and a sufficient number of them are valid ( the question then becomes "valid in whose eyes". This is where you create the impression that you believe only your eyes matter)  You know basketball but you ARE NOT, under any circumstance, the last word on it.  There are a million ways to skin a cat, and your way is simply one of them.
[/quote]
Indeed, but understand this...Knowing basketball or not, I do value others' opinion, but for some reason mine is always highly scrutinized due to the nature in which I say it...Some who do not know basketball would say that because Ralph Sampson was one of the most dominant college players in the game, it would equate to NBA greatness...I say no, because I KNOW better..AND I know WHY as well...People can't always relate, and thats fine, but my thing is, don't knock me because I CAN...As far as the Magic/Bird debate goes, I hold firm that Magic was a better athlete, and a better basketball player, though some may disagree...AND I still KNOW that Larry Bird was one of the best to ever do it.

[Honest Abe]

Then why are u talking down to Nash bc he prefers Bird over Magic? Isn't that one's opinion? Do u not think Nash has bball knowledge? Nash absolutely has bball knowledge  just bc he hasn't played or coaches at the college level does not make him less credible.
I started playing basketball when I was five, and I still play today at age 42. I have been around bball all of my life too, but I don't talk as I'd my opinion is the ONLY one that matters.
And Yes, that is the vibe you give off when u speak Ur opinion, err THE TRUTH...  ::)

[Honest Abe]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1197798" timestamp="1331847514"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=97596.msg1197794#msg1197794 date=1331846707]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=97596.msg1197760#msg1197760 date=1331841165]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=97596.msg1197756#msg1197756 date=1331840733]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=97596.msg1197746#msg1197746 date=1331839873]
[quote author=Rockin A link=topic=97596.msg1197735#msg1197735 date=1331838649]
Majic or Magic?

Magic & Bird are about as equal as two stars can be.  I'll admit I'm biased, and as such, Bird would be the focus of my team.  I'd take a quiet leader over a flashy one any day. 

P.S.  Who is this "Majic" the former assistant coach keeps referring to?
[/quote]
Auto correct on my cell phone...it is MAGIC....The "former assistant coach" has forgotten more basketball than most of you know...think about that one for a moment..... Once again I don't know HOW this became about ME again, but it is only one man's HUMBLE opinion.
[/quote]

I suspect you are underestimating the basketball credentials of a number of posters on here (me NOT included) and, as a result, that corridor between your knowledge and theirs may very well not be as wide as you believe it is.  I am curious about this oxymoron- " Has forgotten more basketball than most of you know" vs " one man's HUMBLE opinion"
[/quote]
Pure SARCASM....The HUMBLE opinion part....I know what I know, Nash...Not going to back down about that...
[/quote]

Don't expect you to back down.  Do expect you to understand (and this is where you are a little Naive) that there are lots of opinions out there and a sufficient number of them are valid ( the question then becomes "valid in whose eyes". This is where you create the impression that you believe only your eyes matter)  You know basketball but you ARE NOT, under any circumstance, the last word on it.  There are a million ways to skin a cat, and your way is simply one of them.
[/quote]
Indeed, but understand this...Knowing basketball or not, I do value others' opinion, but for some reason mine is always highly scrutinized due to the nature in which I say it...Some who do not know basketball would say that because Ralph Sampson was one of the most dominant college players in the game, it would equate to NBA greatness...I say no, because I KNOW better..AND I know WHY as well...People can't always relate, and thats fine, but my thing is, don't knock me because I CAN...As far as the Magic/Bird debate goes, I hold firm that Magic was a better athlete, and a better basketball player, though some may disagree...AND I still KNOW that Larry Bird was one of the best to ever do it.
[/quote]
Sampson actually had a good career going before injuries sidelined him. Averaging about 20 ppg/12 rpg/2 bpg during his 1st 3 years. So u knew he was going to have injury issues?  ???

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="NB-Dawg" post="1197800" timestamp="1331848402"]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=97596.msg1197798#msg1197798 date=1331847514]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=97596.msg1197794#msg1197794 date=1331846707]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=97596.msg1197760#msg1197760 date=1331841165]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=97596.msg1197756#msg1197756 date=1331840733]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=97596.msg1197746#msg1197746 date=1331839873]
[quote author=Rockin A link=topic=97596.msg1197735#msg1197735 date=1331838649]
Majic or Magic?

Magic & Bird are about as equal as two stars can be.  I'll admit I'm biased, and as such, Bird would be the focus of my team.  I'd take a quiet leader over a flashy one any day. 

P.S.  Who is this "Majic" the former assistant coach keeps referring to?
[/quote]
Auto correct on my cell phone...it is MAGIC....The "former assistant coach" has forgotten more basketball than most of you know...think about that one for a moment..... Once again I don't know HOW this became about ME again, but it is only one man's HUMBLE opinion.
[/quote]

I suspect you are underestimating the basketball credentials of a number of posters on here (me NOT included) and, as a result, that corridor between your knowledge and theirs may very well not be as wide as you believe it is.  I am curious about this oxymoron- " Has forgotten more basketball than most of you know" vs " one man's HUMBLE opinion"
[/quote]
Pure SARCASM....The HUMBLE opinion part....I know what I know, Nash...Not going to back down about that...
[/quote]

Don't expect you to back down.  Do expect you to understand (and this is where you are a little Naive) that there are lots of opinions out there and a sufficient number of them are valid ( the question then becomes "valid in whose eyes". This is where you create the impression that you believe only your eyes matter)  You know basketball but you ARE NOT, under any circumstance, the last word on it.  There are a million ways to skin a cat, and your way is simply one of them.
[/quote]
Indeed, but understand this...Knowing basketball or not, I do value others' opinion, but for some reason mine is always highly scrutinized due to the nature in which I say it...Some who do not know basketball would say that because Ralph Sampson was one of the most dominant college players in the game, it would equate to NBA greatness...I say no, because I KNOW better..AND I know WHY as well...People can't always relate, and thats fine, but my thing is, don't knock me because I CAN...As far as the Magic/Bird debate goes, I hold firm that Magic was a better athlete, and a better basketball player, though some may disagree...AND I still KNOW that Larry Bird was one of the best to ever do it.
[/quote]
Sampson actually had a good career going before injuries sidelined him. Averaging about 20 ppg/12 rpg/2 bpg during his 1st 3 years. So u knew he was going to have injury issues?  ???
[/quote]
I was saying that I KNEW WHY...Stop trying so hard to disprove or discredit what I am saying...Some people.... ::) ::)

[stevenash]

Magic vs Bird- Since you have done what you have done, that makes your statement to be definite and without question?  Sorry it doesnt work that way.  As stated earlier, both had 3 league MVPs and Bird was rookie of the year the year that they BOTH entered the NBA.  So obviously, others perceived Bird as being as good as Magic.  It is simply NOT cut and dried because you think so.  There are other opinions with very valid reasons behind them and yes, believe it or not, they count also.  Other backgrounds aside from yours can make someone competent in the basketball field.  There happens to be one from "my background" who, without a doubt, knows everything you know about the game and has a track record that documents same.  .  Brad Stevens got to his position quite differently than Roy Williams got to his, but I'll bet you a dollar to a dime his opinion is equally worthy and credible.

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1197803" timestamp="1331848974"]
Magic vs Bird- Since you have done what you have done, that makes your statement to be definite and without question?  Sorry it doesnt work that way.  As stated earlier, both had 3 league MVPs and Bird was rookie of the year the year that they BOTH entered the NBA.  So obviously, others perceived Bird as being as good as Magic.  It is simply NOT cut and dried because you think so.  There are other opinions with very valid reasons behind them and yes, believe it or not, they count also.  Other backgrounds aside from yours can make someone competent in the basketball field.  There happens to be one from "my background" who, without a doubt, knows everything you know about the game and has a track record that documents same.  .  Brad Stevens got to his position quite differently than Roy Williams got to his, but I'll bet you a dollar to a dime his opinion is equally worthy and credible.
[/quote]
No, they are BOTH valid opinions...I agree with you...I do not know why this Nederland guy, NB-Dawg keeps stepping in and stating otherwise...Wait..I know why....Let it go, man....The season is long over... ;)

[Honest Abe]

Has nothing to do with this season, last season, or next season. U asked a question to RockinA, and I simply gave my opinion. As usual, since I've only been around bball for 37 years, my opinion is not 'THE TRUTH'-although at least 10 other people on this board have said the exact same thing...

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="NB-Dawg" post="1197809" timestamp="1331849664"]
Has nothing to do with this season, last season, or next season. U asked a question to RockinA, and I simply gave my opinion. As usual, since I've only been around bball for 37 years, my opinion is not 'THE TRUTH'-although at least 10 other people on this board have said the exact same thing...
[/quote]
Your opinion matters...its just that sometimes you are wrong and don't know what you are talking about... 8)...Seriously, I don't discredit anyone's opinion on here, I just have issue with you guys wanting to dissect what I say, because of HOW you PERCEIVE I say it...I have been around the game for some time now, as well, and not just a casual fan either...You guys will NEVER give me credit (other than stevenash) for knowing this game the way I do, and thats OK...You don't have to...Thats because you really don't know me, because if you did, you would know where I am coming from when I speak (or type) on the game.  Don't worry, when I land on a staff again this spring, I will no longer comment on here, so you guys will be able to debate to your hearts content without ole DV putting his 2 cents in! (although most of the time I am ASKED to do it) :D..... By the way..........Magic was better! :P 8)

[no-look]

I'm right 98% of the time.....who cares about the other 3%..... ;D

[baddog]

Magic Johnson and Larry Bird saved the NBA. Neither can claim to be the better player. Wins and losses does not always reflect the play of these two. The Laker and Celtic championships of the 80s were the absolute best ever. I mean when you have Bob McAdoo or Kevin McHale coming off the bench......McAdoo good for 20 points, and McHale getting sixth man of the year, it doesn't get better than that.

I would say that Magic was more athletic and Bird had more basketball savvy. Both made game winning shots throughout their careers. However, if the game was on the line, I would get the ball to Bird.

Just know what I saw.

[stevenash]

[quote name="baddog" post="1197824" timestamp="1331853662"]
Magic Johnson and Larry Bird saved the NBA. Neither can claim to be the better player. Wins and losses does not always reflect the play of these two. The Laker and Celtic championships of the 80s were the absolute best ever. I mean when you have Bob McAdoo or Kevin McHale coming off the bench......McAdoo good for 20 points, and McHale getting sixth man of the year, it doesn't get better than that.

I would say that Magic was more athletic and Bird had more basketball savvy. Both made game winning shots throughout their careers. However, if the game was on the line, I would get the ball to Bird.

Just know what I saw.
[/quote]

Welcome to the ranks of the "uninformed" ( and in the case of shooting, it was no contest)

[baddog]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1197831" timestamp="1331854616"]
[quote author=baddog link=topic=97596.msg1197824#msg1197824 date=1331853662]
Magic Johnson and Larry Bird saved the NBA. Neither can claim to be the better player. Wins and losses does not always reflect the play of these two. The Laker and Celtic championships of the 80s were the absolute best ever. I mean when you have Bob McAdoo or Kevin McHale coming off the bench......McAdoo good for 20 points, and McHale getting sixth man of the year, it doesn't get better than that.

I would say that Magic was more athletic and Bird had more basketball savvy. Both made game winning shots throughout their careers. However, if the game was on the line, I would get the ball to Bird.

Just know what I saw.
[/quote]

Welcome to the ranks of the "uninformed" ( and in the case of shooting, it was no contest)
[/quote]

No contest for sure. Bird was king of the 3 point shooting contests.

Bird was the clutch shooter for the Celtics......Jabbar's "Sky Hook" was the go-to for the Lakers.

[stevenash]

South Dakota State leading Baylor 17-6.  Can the intellect hang on?

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1197840" timestamp="1331856038"]
South Dakota State leading Baylor 17-6.  Can the intellect hang on?
[/quote]


Why is the South Dakota team the team with the most "intellect" out of these two?

I am sensing a pattern here.

I also have noticed that all the teams that Nash has labeled "intellect" teams seem to be of the Caucasian flavor. ;)

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1197930" timestamp="1331866056"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=97596.msg1197840#msg1197840 date=1331856038]
South Dakota State leading Baylor 17-6.  Can the intellect hang on?
[/quote]


Why is the South Dakota team the team with the most "intellect" out of these two?

I am sensing a pattern here.

I also have noticed that all the teams that Nash has labeled "intellect" teams seem to be of the Caucasian flavor. ;)
[/quote]I've suspected for awhile now that Steve Nash was passing as a creole black, but he be really white because of the pattern emerging

[stevenash]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1197930" timestamp="1331866056"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=97596.msg1197840#msg1197840 date=1331856038]
South Dakota State leading Baylor 17-6.  Can the intellect hang on?
[/quote]


Why is the South Dakota team the team with the most "intellect" out of these two?

I am sensing a pattern here.

I also have noticed that all the teams that Nash has labeled "intellect" teams seem to be of the Caucasian flavor. ;)
[/quote]

Nope, you are not sensing anything. (Not sure that two examples constitutes any "pattern" that one can "sense")  I "sense" that you are simply stating things the way you want my comments to be interpreted/perceived.  If a team is less athletic than most of their competitors, they obviously will be forced to become more proficient in other aspects of the game.
Princeton was/is always a good example of this. 

[Rockin A]

Bird, all day long !!

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="Rockin A" post="1198032" timestamp="1331910729"]
Bird, all day long !!
[/quote]
Why Bird? Numbers? no. Titles? no. Atheleticism? He** no...Then what is it? the "intangibles"? Nope. Magic has him beat at those too...So, why "Bird, all day long"? ???

[stevenash]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1198055" timestamp="1331912753"]
[quote author=Rockin A link=topic=97596.msg1198032#msg1198032 date=1331910729]
Bird, all day long !!
[/quote]
Why Bird? Numbers? no. Titles? no. Atheleticism? He** no...Then what is it? the "intangibles"? Nope. Magic has him beat at those too...So, why "Bird, all day long"? ???
[/quote]

Dickie- Will you ever realize that your opinion is not the only one that matters?  Have asked you this twice.  Both players had 3 MVP awards  and Bird got rookie of the year when both entered the league.  If you are so "right" on this issue, why did what I just mentioned ever occur?

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1198062" timestamp="1331913947"]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=97596.msg1198055#msg1198055 date=1331912753]
[quote author=Rockin A link=topic=97596.msg1198032#msg1198032 date=1331910729]
Bird, all day long !!
[/quote]
Why Bird? Numbers? no. Titles? no. Atheleticism? He** no...Then what is it? the "intangibles"? Nope. Magic has him beat at those too...So, why "Bird, all day long"? ???
[/quote]

Dickie- Will you ever realize that your opinion is not the only one that matters?  Have asked you this twice.  Both players had 3 MVP awards  and Bird got rookie of the year when both entered the league.  If you are so "right" on this issue, why did what I just mentioned ever occur?
[/quote]
I just asked the question why did he feel it was "Bird, all day"...I have said SEVERAL times that I felt Bird was one of the greatest to ever do it..I have no idea what you guys are trying to turn this into, but my questuion was legitimate. 

[stevenash]

And I am simply telling you that Bird did sufficiently well for some people to consider him to be equal to or better than Magic.  Not much different than debating whether the Celtics Franchise or the Laker Franchise is the more successful one.  Plenty of good points to argue for either side.  I think a couple of different individuals have stated to you that if they had to choose who would take that last second shot to win the game, it would be Larry. 

[baddog]

Bird also led the NBA in FT% several times. Late in the game with a lead, get the ball to Bird and the other team has to foul.......too bad!!!!! Bird was automatic.....91% lifetime FT.

Wow, he could take the last second shot under pressure or make the pressure FTs to save the lead......or steal the inbounds pass and pass it to DJ for a layup for the last second win. What a player. I sure do miss him and so do the Celtics.