Athletecism vs Intellect

[stevenash]

Started a new thread for our old conversation.

Spin it like you want Dickie-  Yes, Vermont was the better TEAM and it was not based on superior athleticism.  If you line up all of the players from both teams and compare speed, vertical jump, quickness, etc we both KNOW who comes out on top.  You are just unwilling to confirm my thought that athleticism is not the sole definition of a good basketball player as Larry Bird( among others) has already solidly proven.

[Dick Vitale]

The thing is, I actually AGREE with you on the topic...Last night Vermont was the better basketball team, which emcompasses a lot of those attributes, however, intellectual or not, they will get HAMMERED on Friday when they face a more talented North Carolina team...Its just that simple....Do you not think that the UNC players have a certain amount of basketball IQ to go along with that ability? I would BET that they do. And by the way...as "intellectual" as Larry Bird was, he was not as good as Magic, and not even close to MJ...BUT he was still a great player...There is always going to be a difference when athleticism comes into play.

[Rockin A]

Since the former assistant coach said it, Nash, I guess it must be true. 

[no-look]

Both    ;D

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="Rockin A" post="1197657" timestamp="1331829061"]
Since the former assistant coach said it, Nash, I guess it must be true. 
[/quote]
Its true no matter WHO says it... ::)

[stevenash]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1197650" timestamp="1331828286"]
The thing is, I actually AGREE with you on the topic...Last night Vermont was the better basketball team, which emcompasses a lot of those attributes, however, intellectual or not, they will get HAMMERED on Friday when they face a more talented North Carolina team...Its just that simple....Do you not think that the UNC players have a certain amount of basketball IQ to go along with that ability? I would BET that they do. And by the way...as "intellectual" as Larry Bird was, he was not as good as Magic, and not even close to MJ...BUT he was still a great player...There is always going to be a difference when athleticism comes into play.
[/quote]

When you get to the North Carolinas, Dukes, Mich States, etc there is plenty of athletecism and intellect.  I will respectfully disagree with you on Bird/Magic.

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1197684" timestamp="1331832444"]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=97596.msg1197650#msg1197650 date=1331828286]
The thing is, I actually AGREE with you on the topic...Last night Vermont was the better basketball team, which emcompasses a lot of those attributes, however, intellectual or not, they will get HAMMERED on Friday when they face a more talented North Carolina team...Its just that simple....Do you not think that the UNC players have a certain amount of basketball IQ to go along with that ability? I would BET that they do. And by the way...as "intellectual" as Larry Bird was, he was not as good as Magic, and not even close to MJ...BUT he was still a great player...There is always going to be a difference when athleticism comes into play.
[/quote]

When you get to the North Carolinas, Dukes, Mich States, etc there is plenty of athletecism and intellect.  I will respectfully disagree with you on Bird/Magic.
[/quote]
So was Magic not as intellectual as Bird? Because he was definitely more athletic....Magic played 5 positions...won more championships (both played on storied franchises)...and was SURGICAL with the basketball...Magic was better..beat him on both college and pro levels...Although Bird was STILL a Legend in my estimation...What about MJ? Do You agree with that one?

[east texas bb]

Vermont beats Lamar 9 times out of 10 or maybe even 10.  They ran much better sets and played much better defense.  Lamar played too much 1 on 1 (aka real basketball)  and their defense was poor at best, or at least Vermont made it look very poor.  Will they get beat by NC, more than likely yes, because NC has both.
Your only argument against Larry Bird is Magic and Michael Jordan?  Three of the top players of all time.
 

[east texas bb]

Splitting hairs.
Michael was better, Larry and Magic are too close.

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="east texas bb" post="1197698" timestamp="1331834179"]
Vermont beats Lamar 9 times out of 10 or maybe even 10.  They ran much better sets and played much better defense.  Lamar played too much 1 on 1 (aka real basketball)  and their defense was poor at best, or at least Vermont made it look very poor.  Will they get beat by NC, more than likely yes, because NC has both.
Your only argument against Larry Bird is Magic and Michael Jordan?  Three of the top players of all time.
 
[/quote]
The title of the topic is athleticism vs. intellect....The Bird/Jordan references THAT....Jordan had BOTH and so did Magic....Bird is DEFINITELY one of the top five of all time, while being a "smart" basketball player...But being 6'9, a gifted shooter, and one of the toughest SOB's to ever come out of French Lick, Indiana didn't hurt his case either... ;)

[stevenash]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1197697" timestamp="1331833974"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=97596.msg1197684#msg1197684 date=1331832444]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=97596.msg1197650#msg1197650 date=1331828286]
The thing is, I actually AGREE with you on the topic...Last night Vermont was the better basketball team, which emcompasses a lot of those attributes, however, intellectual or not, they will get HAMMERED on Friday when they face a more talented North Carolina team...Its just that simple....Do you not think that the UNC players have a certain amount of basketball IQ to go along with that ability? I would BET that they do. And by the way...as "intellectual" as Larry Bird was, he was not as good as Magic, and not even close to MJ...BUT he was still a great player...There is always going to be a difference when athleticism comes into play.
[/quote]

When you get to the North Carolinas, Dukes, Mich States, etc there is plenty of athletecism and intellect.  I will respectfully disagree with you on Bird/Magic.
[/quote]
So was Magic not as intellectual as Bird? Because he was definitely more athletic....Magic played 5 positions...won more championships (both played on storied franchises)...and was SURGICAL with the basketball...Magic was better..beat him on both college and pro levels...Although Bird was STILL a Legend in my estimation...What about MJ? Do You agree with that one?
[/quote]

Beat him on the college level?  Give me a break.  We both know there was quite a difference in the supporting casts.  Jordan better than both.  The number of positions played has nothing to do with what we are discussing, so drop that one although I saw Larry bring the ball down the court many a time and would take him vs Magic in the post position any day of the week.

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1197705" timestamp="1331835255"]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=97596.msg1197697#msg1197697 date=1331833974]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=97596.msg1197684#msg1197684 date=1331832444]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=97596.msg1197650#msg1197650 date=1331828286]
The thing is, I actually AGREE with you on the topic...Last night Vermont was the better basketball team, which emcompasses a lot of those attributes, however, intellectual or not, they will get HAMMERED on Friday when they face a more talented North Carolina team...Its just that simple....Do you not think that the UNC players have a certain amount of basketball IQ to go along with that ability? I would BET that they do. And by the way...as "intellectual" as Larry Bird was, he was not as good as Magic, and not even close to MJ...BUT he was still a great player...There is always going to be a difference when athleticism comes into play.
[/quote]

When you get to the North Carolinas, Dukes, Mich States, etc there is plenty of athletecism and intellect.  I will respectfully disagree with you on Bird/Magic.
[/quote]
So was Magic not as intellectual as Bird? Because he was definitely more athletic....Magic played 5 positions...won more championships (both played on storied franchises)...and was SURGICAL with the basketball...Magic was better..beat him on both college and pro levels...Although Bird was STILL a Legend in my estimation...What about MJ? Do You agree with that one?
[/quote]

Beat him on the college level?  Give me a break.  We both know there was quite a difference in the supporting casts.  Jordan better than both.  The number of positions played has nothing to do with what we are discussing, so drop that one although I saw Larry bring the ball down the court many a time and would take him vs Magic in the post position any day of the week.
[/quote]
How else do we compare the two? wins and losses...Magic was better on that page as well..Come on Nash, you cannot be THAT biased...You can acknowledge that MJ is better, but not Magic? I am saying that Bird was a GREAT player, but Majic was better....Ask ANY person that knows basketball who they would start a team with Bird or Magic...I am sure the vast unbiased majority would say Magic Johnson...its pretty obvious.

[stevenash]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1197716" timestamp="1331836592"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=97596.msg1197705#msg1197705 date=1331835255]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=97596.msg1197697#msg1197697 date=1331833974]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=97596.msg1197684#msg1197684 date=1331832444]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=97596.msg1197650#msg1197650 date=1331828286]
The thing is, I actually AGREE with you on the topic...Last night Vermont was the better basketball team, which emcompasses a lot of those attributes, however, intellectual or not, they will get HAMMERED on Friday when they face a more talented North Carolina team...Its just that simple....Do you not think that the UNC players have a certain amount of basketball IQ to go along with that ability? I would BET that they do. And by the way...as "intellectual" as Larry Bird was, he was not as good as Magic, and not even close to MJ...BUT he was still a great player...There is always going to be a difference when athleticism comes into play.
[/quote]

When you get to the North Carolinas, Dukes, Mich States, etc there is plenty of athletecism and intellect.  I will respectfully disagree with you on Bird/Magic.
[/quote]
So was Magic not as intellectual as Bird? Because he was definitely more athletic....Magic played 5 positions...won more championships (both played on storied franchises)...and was SURGICAL with the basketball...Magic was better..beat him on both college and pro levels...Although Bird was STILL a Legend in my estimation...What about MJ? Do You agree with that one?
[/quote]

Beat him on the college level?  Give me a break.  We both know there was quite a difference in the supporting casts.  Jordan better than both.  The number of positions played has nothing to do with what we are discussing, so drop that one although I saw Larry bring the ball down the court many a time and would take him vs Magic in the post position any day of the week.
[/quote]
How else do we compare the two? wins and losses...Magic was better on that page as well..Come on Nash, you cannot be THAT biased...You can acknowledge that MJ is better, but not Majic? I am saying that Bird was a GREAT player, but Majic was better....Ask ANY person that knows basketball who they would start a team with Bird or Majic...I am sure the vast unbiased majority would say Majic Johnson...its pretty obvious.
[/quote]

If you are going the wins/losses/championships route as the criteria, then Bill Russell, unequivocally, is the best player ever.  What does "THAT BIASED" mean?  Is this going to become a racial issue as well?

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1197722" timestamp="1331837007"]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=97596.msg1197716#msg1197716 date=1331836592]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=97596.msg1197705#msg1197705 date=1331835255]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=97596.msg1197697#msg1197697 date=1331833974]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=97596.msg1197684#msg1197684 date=1331832444]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=97596.msg1197650#msg1197650 date=1331828286]
The thing is, I actually AGREE with you on the topic...Last night Vermont was the better basketball team, which emcompasses a lot of those attributes, however, intellectual or not, they will get HAMMERED on Friday when they face a more talented North Carolina team...Its just that simple....Do you not think that the UNC players have a certain amount of basketball IQ to go along with that ability? I would BET that they do. And by the way...as "intellectual" as Larry Bird was, he was not as good as Magic, and not even close to MJ...BUT he was still a great player...There is always going to be a difference when athleticism comes into play.
[/quote]

When you get to the North Carolinas, Dukes, Mich States, etc there is plenty of athletecism and intellect.  I will respectfully disagree with you on Bird/Magic.
[/quote]
So was Magic not as intellectual as Bird? Because he was definitely more athletic....Magic played 5 positions...won more championships (both played on storied franchises)...and was SURGICAL with the basketball...Magic was better..beat him on both college and pro levels...Although Bird was STILL a Legend in my estimation...What about MJ? Do You agree with that one?
[/quote]

Beat him on the college level?  Give me a break.  We both know there was quite a difference in the supporting casts.  Jordan better than both.  The number of positions played has nothing to do with what we are discussing, so drop that one although I saw Larry bring the ball down the court many a time and would take him vs Magic in the post position any day of the week.
[/quote]
How else do we compare the two? wins and losses...Magic was better on that page as well..Come on Nash, you cannot be THAT biased...You can acknowledge that MJ is better, but not Majic? I am saying that Bird was a GREAT player, but Majic was better....Ask ANY person that knows basketball who they would start a team with Bird or Majic...I am sure the vast unbiased majority would say Majic Johnson...its pretty obvious.
[/quote]

If you are going the wins/losses/championships route as the criteria, then Bill Russell, unequivocally, is the best player ever.  What does "THAT BIASED" mean?  Is this going to become a racial issue as well?
[/quote]
NO, it just meant that you are obviously a Larry Bird fan...THAT is the biased that I am referencing....Come on Nash... ::)...Robert Horry won more than Charles Barkley too, but it doesn't make him better either...I was just talking head to head competetion in the Bird/Magic example....we all know who the better player is Nash....Magic... ::)

[stevenash]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1197725" timestamp="1331837363"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=97596.msg1197722#msg1197722 date=1331837007]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=97596.msg1197716#msg1197716 date=1331836592]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=97596.msg1197705#msg1197705 date=1331835255]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=97596.msg1197697#msg1197697 date=1331833974]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=97596.msg1197684#msg1197684 date=1331832444]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=97596.msg1197650#msg1197650 date=1331828286]
The thing is, I actually AGREE with you on the topic...Last night Vermont was the better basketball team, which emcompasses a lot of those attributes, however, intellectual or not, they will get HAMMERED on Friday when they face a more talented North Carolina team...Its just that simple....Do you not think that the UNC players have a certain amount of basketball IQ to go along with that ability? I would BET that they do. And by the way...as "intellectual" as Larry Bird was, he was not as good as Magic, and not even close to MJ...BUT he was still a great player...There is always going to be a difference when athleticism comes into play.
[/quote]

When you get to the North Carolinas, Dukes, Mich States, etc there is plenty of athletecism and intellect.  I will respectfully disagree with you on Bird/Magic.
[/quote]
So was Magic not as intellectual as Bird? Because he was definitely more athletic....Magic played 5 positions...won more championships (both played on storied franchises)...and was SURGICAL with the basketball...Magic was better..beat him on both college and pro levels...Although Bird was STILL a Legend in my estimation...What about MJ? Do You agree with that one?
[/quote]

Beat him on the college level?  Give me a break.  We both know there was quite a difference in the supporting casts.  Jordan better than both.  The number of positions played has nothing to do with what we are discussing, so drop that one although I saw Larry bring the ball down the court many a time and would take him vs Magic in the post position any day of the week.
[/quote]
How else do we compare the two? wins and losses...Magic was better on that page as well..Come on Nash, you cannot be THAT biased...You can acknowledge that MJ is better, but not Majic? I am saying that Bird was a GREAT player, but Majic was better....Ask ANY person that knows basketball who they would start a team with Bird or Majic...I am sure the vast unbiased majority would say Majic Johnson...its pretty obvious.
[/quote]

If you are going the wins/losses/championships route as the criteria, then Bill Russell, unequivocally, is the best player ever.  What does "THAT BIASED" mean?  Is this going to become a racial issue as well?
[/quote]
NO, it just meant that you are obviously a Larry Bird fan...THAT is the biased that I am referencing....Come on Nash... ::)...Robert Horry won more than Charles Barkley too, but it doesn't make him better either...I was just talking head to head competetion in the Bird/Majic example....we all know who the better player is Nash....Majic... ::)
[/quote]

Ok- Now you say that wins/losses/championships are not the criteria for making a determination and I say playing 5 positions is not the criteria.  What are we going to use?  Both were 3 time MVPs and Bird got Rookie of the Year the year they both entered the league.  So I see nothing that makes Magic the overwhelmingly superior player.

[AggiesAreWe]

If I had to choose between the two, I would take Magic over Bird.

Also, I would be fine with the other if left with that player. ;)

[SETXRedneck]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Stevenash.. this guy... has no idea what he's talking about.. about EVERYTHING

[Rockin A]

Majic or Magic?

Magic & Bird are about as equal as two stars can be.  I'll admit I'm biased, and as such, Bird would be the focus of my team.  I'd take a quiet leader over a flashy one any day. 

P.S.  Who is this "Majic" the former assistant coach keeps referring to?

[stevenash]

[quote name="SETXRedneck" post="1197734" timestamp="1331838560"]
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Stevenash.. this guy... has no idea what he's talking about.. about EVERYTHING
[/quote]

You may be right.  Introspection is appropriate at this time.

[stevenash]

[quote name="Rockin A" post="1197735" timestamp="1331838649"]
Majic or Magic?

Magic & Bird are about as equal as two stars can be.  I'll admit I'm biased, and as such, Bird would be the focus of my team.  I'd take a quiet leader over a flashy one any day. 

P.S.  Who is this "Majic" the former assistant coach keeps referring to?
[/quote]

Maybe I am not the only one after all.  Please keep in mind, however, sir, that you and I are not members of the" vast and unbiased majority".

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="Rockin A" post="1197735" timestamp="1331838649"]
Majic or Magic?

Magic & Bird are about as equal as two stars can be.  I'll admit I'm biased, and as such, Bird would be the focus of my team.  I'd take a quiet leader over a flashy one any day. 

P.S.  Who is this "Majic" the former assistant coach keeps referring to?
[/quote]
Auto correct on my cell phone...it is MAGIC....The "former assistant coach" has forgotten more basketball than most of you know...think about that one for a moment..... Once again I don't know HOW this became about ME again, but it is only one man's HUMBLE opinion.

[stevenash]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1197746" timestamp="1331839873"]
[quote author=Rockin A link=topic=97596.msg1197735#msg1197735 date=1331838649]
Majic or Magic?

Magic & Bird are about as equal as two stars can be.  I'll admit I'm biased, and as such, Bird would be the focus of my team.  I'd take a quiet leader over a flashy one any day. 

P.S.  Who is this "Majic" the former assistant coach keeps referring to?
[/quote]
Auto correct on my cell phone...it is MAGIC....The "former assistant coach" has forgotten more basketball than most of you know...think about that one for a moment..... Once again I don't know HOW this became about ME again, but it is only one man's HUMBLE opinion.
[/quote]

I suspect you are underestimating the basketball credentials of a number of posters on here (me NOT included) and, as a result, that corridor between your knowledge and theirs may very well not be as wide as you believe it is.  I am curious about this oxymoron- " Has forgotten more basketball than most of you know" vs " one man's HUMBLE opinion"

[Dick Vitale]

[quote name="stevenash" post="1197756" timestamp="1331840733"]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=97596.msg1197746#msg1197746 date=1331839873]
[quote author=Rockin A link=topic=97596.msg1197735#msg1197735 date=1331838649]
Majic or Magic?

Magic & Bird are about as equal as two stars can be.  I'll admit I'm biased, and as such, Bird would be the focus of my team.  I'd take a quiet leader over a flashy one any day. 

P.S.  Who is this "Majic" the former assistant coach keeps referring to?
[/quote]
Auto correct on my cell phone...it is MAGIC....The "former assistant coach" has forgotten more basketball than most of you know...think about that one for a moment..... Once again I don't know HOW this became about ME again, but it is only one man's HUMBLE opinion.
[/quote]

I suspect you are underestimating the basketball credentials of a number of posters on here (me NOT included) and, as a result, that corridor between your knowledge and theirs may very well not be as wide as you believe it is.  I am curious about this oxymoron- " Has forgotten more basketball than most of you know" vs " one man's HUMBLE opinion"
[/quote]
Pure SARCASM....The HUMBLE opinion part....I know what I know, Nash...Not going to back down about that...

[cbosha]

I think that Bird and Magic both had high basketball IQ's.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="cbosha" post="1197761" timestamp="1331841204"]
I think that Bird and Magic both had high basketball IQ's.
[/quote]I'd have to check into French Lick's educational system b4 I would agree with that .... :D