@ East Chambers 57, Orangefield 51 - F

[True Blue]

[quote name="uknowit2" post="734593" timestamp="1261609996"]
I think you're confusing a substitution with a player that is already in the game. The ref has the final say when a sub enters but if the 5th player was already in the game, than that's not a substitution. He can play where ever he wants, including the bench.

An example would be a player going into the stands (chasing a loose ball) and doesn't return for 10 seconds. Play continues and no one 'waves' them in.
[/quote] That is the way I read the rule but if anyone can find anything different please tell us. The ref has to wave in a sub but if your in the game you dont have to be waved on the floor. I have seen a player go in the stands and not return for 10 or 15 sec. the ball goes to the other end of the court. That player comes back on the court for a snowbird layup on the other  end :o

[OLDREF]

SORRY.........there is way too much misinformation to be able to clear all of this up...so I will try to do it in sections....1)  As far as the substitutes...it seems like different people saw it different ways.....RULE 10 SECTION 2. ARTICLE 1 AND 2 state...''A SUBSTITUTE shall not enter the court:  1) without reporting to the scorers.....2) without being beckoned by an official, except between quarters.....PENALTY...2 free throws plus ball for a division line throw in.  One foul for either or both requirements.....Penalized if discoveredbefore the ball becomes live.

AS FAR AS THE INTENTIONAL FOUL.....RULE 10 SECTION 6 ARTICLE 2..STATES ...TWO free throws for intentional or flagrant foul..... followed by the ball given to the team being fouled at the nearest throw in spot  to where the infraction occured(not the division line).....ALSO..... And I could not find this in the rule book, butI know it to be true....even if you have a made basket....if it is an intentional foul...you get two shots...plus the ball....all intentional fouls give you two shots plus the ball


I am going to go back and reread the posts to see if there is anything else....TO BE QUITE HONEST I AM STILL CONFUSED ON WHAT REALLY HAPPENED

[catfever]

There was a timeout called.  Following the timeout, the players for both teams (5 for OF and 4 for EC) came onto the court and OF threw in the ball under EC basket.  OF brought the ball down the court.  Realizing something was wrong OF threw the ball around the court to the man that was unguarded.  At that point a player from the EC bench ran onto the floor.  The official on that side blew his whistle and stopped the play.  The officials talked and gave OF the ball underneath the basket. 

[OLDREF]

bballgod.............tough situation....for my brothers in stripes...I always say "those that have no sin among you cast the first stone"....What that means in this context is I have too missed this in my career...(IN FACT I DID IT THIS YEAR IN THE HJ/KOUNTZE  GAME!!!!!!) had six men on the court with a live ball and just didn"t catch it....In a perfect world the officials catch this before the ball is inbounded,,but they didn't and without being in a huddle with them I can't comment on what their decision was.....I have had kids come on the court in most every game I have ever done without being beconed...I send them back to the table...If we teed  um up everytime we would have techs all night..LAME EXCUSE I KNOW...but the truth.....Officials try so hard to get it right...BBALL officiating is the most subjective type of sport officiating there is...I can't second guess these guys...all I know is the most important thing to those guys was to work hard and do all they could for both teams....

[True Blue]

That is pretty much how it went . There was a player from EC at the table to check in when the timeout was called. After the timeout the player that was checking in plus three other players went on the floor. The ball was thrown in by OF at ECs end the ball was then at the OF end when  the player from EC, that was in before the time out, ran on the floor. There was not a SUBSTITUTION He WAS ON the floor before the timeout he just forgot to go in ??? The refs should have counted players before the play begain and pointed out that EC did not have enough.

[Guest bleed orange]

At least it was not a technical in a playoff game with 1 second left for celebration on the bench. Yes it will always burn in my memory. Orangefield vs Navasota 2008. (Girls)  What I mean is, it was not a district game or a playoff game. Be thankfull. Most officials learn from their mistakes and strive to get better. I promise you if an official is passionate about his job he or she will not sleep well after a game if they feel like they should have done better. I know I did. It is human nature for most people. Not all, the offical from Navasota said after the Orangefield game that he would sleep well. The man had no concious.

[catfever]

The fact that he was in the game prior to the timeout has nothing to do with it.  He was not on the floor when the ball was put in play.  He is the player that ran onto the floor when the coach yelled.  He did not dive into the stands and have some nachos and come back into the play.  He sat on the bench and ran onto the floor when OF was about to shoot a lay-up.  It really isn't a big deal.  It just amazes me that you will justify something that should have been so simple as calling a technical.  Yeah they messed up with other calls.  None of them changed the outcome of the game.  EC played better than us.  We shot like crap and lost.  That is the bottom line.  In this situation the officials messed up and it really was a situation where they could have gotten it right.  They talked about it for awhile before coming to a decision. 

[True Blue]

[quote name="bleed orange" post="734618" timestamp="1261616986"]
At least it was not a technical in a playoff game with 1 second left for celebration on the bench. Yes it will always burn in my memory. Orangefield vs Navasota 2008.
[/quote]OUCH What a way to pull your heart out :o :(

[True Blue]

[quote name="bballgod" post="734622" timestamp="1261617628"]
The fact that he was in the game prior to the timeout has nothing to do with it.  He was not on the floor when the ball was put in play.  He is the player that ran onto the floor when the coach yelled.  He did not dive into the stands and have some nachos and come back into the play.  He sat on the bench and ran onto the floor when OF was about to shoot a lay-up.  It really isn't a big deal.  It just amazes me that you will justify something that should have been so simple as calling a technical.  Yeah they messed up with other calls.  None of them changed the outcome of the game.  EC played better than us.  We shot like crap and lost.  That is the bottom line.  In this situation the officials messed up and it really was a situation where they could have gotten it right.  They talked about it for awhile before coming to a decision. 
[/quote] I am not trying to JUSTIFING anything the way I read the rule is that was not a foul of anykind. I maybe reading it wrong. And like you have said that call did not have anything to do with the outcome of this game.

[Guest bleed orange]

[quote name="bballgod" post="734622" timestamp="1261617628"]
The fact that he was in the game prior to the timeout has nothing to do with it.  He was not on the floor when the ball was put in play.  He is the player that ran onto the floor when the coach yelled.  He did not dive into the stands and have some nachos and come back into the play.  He sat on the bench and ran onto the floor when OF was about to shoot a lay-up.  It really isn't a big deal.  It just amazes me that you will justify something that should have been so simple as calling a technical.  Yeah they messed up with other calls.  None of them changed the outcome of the game.  EC played better than us.  We shot like crap and lost.  That is the bottom line.  In this situation the officials messed up and it really was a situation where they could have gotten it right.  They talked about it for awhile before coming to a decision. 
[/quote]

BBallgod, let it go it is over. Like you said earlier if the kids would have done this or that we would not be having this conversation. So why are we? People make mistakes, players do and so do coaches. Just the way it is. This is not utopia. ;D  I promise Orangefield will be a better team because of this loss and the officials will be better also.

[uknowit2]

[quote name="True Blue" post="734612" timestamp="1261615330"]
That is pretty much how it went . There was a player from EC at the table to check in when the timeout was called. After the timeout the player that was checking in plus three other players went on the floor. The ball was thrown in by OF at ECs end the ball was then at the OF end when  the player from EC, that was in before the time out, ran on the floor. There was not a SUBSTITUTION He WAS ON the floor before the timeout he just forgot to go in ??? The refs should have counted players before the play begain and pointed out that EC did not have enough.
[/quote]

Sorry, It's not the responsibilty of the ref to stop play because a team only had 4 players on the floor. He should make sure there are not more than 5 players. Other than that the player that was already on the books was Ok to re-enter without checking in.

[uknowit2]

[quote name="bballgod" post="734622" timestamp="1261617628"]
The fact that he was in the game prior to the timeout has nothing to do with it.  He was not on the floor when the ball was put in play.  He is the player that ran onto the floor when the coach yelled.  He did not dive into the stands and have some nachos and come back into the play.  He sat on the bench and ran onto the floor when OF was about to shoot a lay-up.  It really isn't a big deal.  It just amazes me that you will justify something that should have been so simple as calling a technical.  Yeah they messed up with other calls.  None of them changed the outcome of the game.  EC played better than us.  We shot like crap and lost.  That is the bottom line.  In this situation the officials messed up and it really was a situation where they could have gotten it right.  They talked about it for awhile before coming to a decision.  
[/quote]

bballgod...you've been demoted for not knowing the rules. You're no longer a god. [i]"The fact that he was in the game prior to the timeout has nothing to do with it". [/i] That has everything to do with it. If the refs stopped play when the young man ran on the court, that's his bad. He should have noted only 4 players and expected the coach to see that too. I can understand him blowing the play dead, seeing someone running on the court and all but he should have let play continue until there was a whistle, then check the book to make sure he player was ok to participate. If he was on the books, no harm no foul. If not, it's a tech.