Shetland - Tournament Thread - Updates

[YankeeDawg]

That's who I want my son to look up!!! Maybe that's why took what he took to catch up to those who started at 5and6

And IMHO, I think that alot of these sports parents (not necessarily those on this board) will have no problem with their kids taking roids...anything to become the most physical athlete they can become..without regard for the kids' overall well being and to make up for some physical shortcoming their kid may have.. The level of competiveness with some  young athletes, again IMHO, supported and condoned by some coaches and parents dream to relive their lives through their kids, does nothing but put their kids at risk.  I'd bet that there are some pre-HS age athletes that have already experimented with roids, with their parents urging.  But this is just my 2 cents.

[homerunbetty]

If you do not like Consaco as an example, what about Moises Alou who did not start playing organized baseball until he was in college?  Or Kenny Lofton who played basketball in college and decided to try out for the baseball team his Junior year of college?

This is the typical response I expected to receive from parents that are living their life through their children.  It is sad the children are being sacrificed for the parents enjoyment.

[jnboudreaux]

I am a mother of a child that made all-stars from Groves.  This is the first year that he has played allstars and the second year in baseball itself.  Before the tournament on the weekend of the 21st he was so excited to finally get to be an all-star.  We practiced everyday in the yard and he gave everything he had at his actual practice.  Going into the tourney that weekend I saw the light in his eyes and his passion for the sport go out of him when we heard that Vidor had put their A-team as the B-team.  That put a train coming down the path of my sons team.  Just the thought of the A team playing his B team (yes he is smart enough to know what the difference is) upset him.  He knew (as did the team and the coaches) that they were going to get beat right off of the bat.  In turn I had to console him after the first loss as to why a city with so much talent would do that to other 4,5,and 6 year old kids? Why would they crush them like that?  Just to win, what does that teach their kids? I am starting to agree with some other parents on this thread.  I am not sure next year, if he is chosen that i am going to let him play.  But ultimately it will be his choice.  My son has incredible talent and i would hate for him to hate the game or quit playing because of an experience like that.  On the other hand, we played TC on Sunday.  It was more of a fair match up against our team.  The kids were actually the size of 4,5 and 6 year olds. Again incredible talent and we had absolutely no problem with the fans.  Both sides cheered for all the kids on both teams.  I think Vidor is the one with the problem.   

[Guest cat10]

WHAT PART OF 5 AND 6 DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?  This is just insane!  They are CHILDREN!  The parents on this post are just like those parents pushing their kids through the beauty pagents.  They were not able to participate in anything like that as a child and are trying to live their life vicariously through their own children.  You are only hurting them and setting them up for failure.  Those that feel their children are going to be the ones to make varsity as a freshman have a rude awakening coming. 

I have been holding off on making a post but the baseballwidow has pushed me over.  Baseballwidow, obviously you have had some sort of bad experience with children and sports and you need to vent.  I hope your post made you feel better.  I love your quote about the parent wanting to live their lives through their children.  Must have been another unsuccessful attempt on your part.  As far as kids getting burned out, I can assure you that I am the one who get burned out.  There is no possible way I can keep up with the hours that my son(s) would like to play baseball.  Whether it be in the yard, at practice, or on the field.  After the long season we have already had, he ask every game if this is the last one.  Because he hopes that it isn't.  I don't have to force him, he forces me and so I help him, and teach him, and give him the tools to be successful.  Most of the 5 and 6 year olds don't really know about the competition they just go out and play the game they love.  It is the parents that are competitive.  Competition is a part of life, it make the world go around.  Kids can learn a lot about life through baseball.  Team work, defeat, success, and work ethic.  Doesn't sound to bad to me.

Do I think that my kid will be a successful baseball player in the future?  Who knows.  But I am not going to carry him around in a shoe box.  If you still have young kids which I assume you don't,  don't read to them as a baby, don't let them play sports until they are "old enough" in you mind, and whatever you do don't feed a kid the knowledge or skills they are begging for.  See how it turns out and I will take my chances on feeding mine with the knowledge they desire.

As far as your quotes from various authors, doctors, etc.  I will give you and hand on some good research.  But for every quote you use there is another to contradict it.  So don't waste you time on trying to throw up a smoke screen with your information overload,  I'm not buying it and neither is anyone else on this thread.  Enjoy life in a bubble.

[texcoug]

If you do not like Consaco as an example, what about Moises Alou who did not start playing organized baseball until he was in college?  Or Kenny Lofton who played basketball in college and decided to try out for the baseball team his Junior year of college?

This is the typical response I expected to receive from parents that are living their life through their children.  It is sad the children are being sacrificed for the parents enjoyment.

I think I understand your point, but please leave out the anecdotes to support yourself (there are multitudes more that go the other way).  All of your analysis seems to be based on one premise:  That parents of 5/6 year olds (btw -- at the all star level, there was only 1 5 year old on the winning team and he turned 6 in June) are registering their kids in competitive baseball (i.e., PONY) versus instructional only (like LL) because they want either (a) to live through their kid for things they couldn't accomplish, or gasp, (2) play in the major leagues.  Please.  It could be based on GEOGRAPHY (like, what baseball league and facilities are available to them in their area). 

In addition, I think that you have answered this one yourself.  The attrition rate in youth sports takes care of the vast majority of 5-6 year olds (and they don't continue to play for whatever reason -- some of them because they do not like kid pitch, others because they lose interest, etc.).  BUT, what you forget is that is the SAME for virtually every little league sport.  More than 1/2 of the kids at our league (400 kids) were 8 and under.  If you have ever gone to a swim meet, you will find the same is true for swimmers.  If you coached soccer (I do), you will find the same is true there too.  Or, how about dance?  Ditto.  Piano?  Yep.  (Check the number of participants at your next recital under the age of 10 versus over).  Truth is that lots of small children in all different sorts of disciplines move on to something else -- and it is not necessarily because of a parent driving them away.  It is just a fact of life.  In other words, I have to assume for my child that he may not be playing baseball 4 years from now.  We can sure have a lot of fun and build a lot of memories along the way. 

Ultimately, you have to do what is best for your child.  And, you have to assume that other people are doing the same and give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Guest vpfootball]

Yea ok!! Well this must be your first year BECAUSE for YEARS now Leagues have been putting there A teams as there B teams..Last year TC and Orange did it NOT VIDOR and still Vidor Won!! The same thing is happening in Pinto TC and Oange both are going in as B instead of A not Vidor..so please go cry somewhere else I'm sure little league don't have any problems..don't be mad at Vidor for doing the same thing every others league has done because now Vidor is winning.. How easy we forget when we lose..GO VIDOR STATE BOUND 

[jnboudreaux]

It is obvious you cant read.  I said this was our first year in All-stars.  We also have nothing but respect for TC even though we lost to them as well. It was just easier for my son to lose to them becuase it was a fair match up and his team gave all he had.  It is the attitude of the parents that is causing the problem.  The kids have nothing to do with this.  Vidor has great talent. Those kids deserve a chance at state as they worked hard.  It is people like you that take it too far. 

[Guest vpfootball]

Whatever!! Its people like you why Groves had to change their name and people are leaving and going to GN..You probably grip about everything and do nothing in return..

[jnboudreaux]

Why do you have such an attitude.  I actually am very involved with the league.  I dont "grip" or "gripe" about everything for that matter.  There is alot of talent in the Golden triange area and stretches beyond that i am sure.  What i am not sure about is why you are so arrogant and cocky.  This are children that deserve a chance to be kids in a sport that they love. Not to be pushed or yelled at by adults that missed their chance a long time ago.  I compliment your teams and you still have an attitude.  As the choice of Groves American changing its name to something else to include more children.  What is the harm in that?  I wish Vidor the best luck in state, and hope they represent the Golden Triange well. 

[VP93....]

OK!!!! has everyone realised this is a thread to keep up dates"scores" on the tournament not on 5 and 6 year old kids...btw the tournament is over so let move on..Talking about 5 and 6 years old can be debated on and on....just like Pony over LL so let's all agree to disagree and wish Vidor luck at State!!!!

[$]

TC has three current 5 year olds(mine being one of them) and  two that turned 6 in May. Way to go TC for such a YOUNG team! Who cares if these kids play when they are 10, 16, or 20. Like it was stated earlier, make the memories now! When my child is not having fun it's time to hang it up. The competitiveness of Pony Baseball is GREAT, and I think it teaches these kids a lot...that they DON'T always get what they want...a WIN. And my opinion is that IF my Child doesn't want to win, and doesn't care, then he has no business playing All Stars!...Which was not the case, he was very upset about the loss to Vidor, but it was a life lesson for him. 1 down 1 to go! Go TC Pinto All Stars!

[jnboudreaux]

I am not posting on here to start fights with other people.  I just started using this site to keep up with everything including the PNG Football as I have two older boys who will play.  I wanted to express my opinion on what i saw out at the tournament and see if anybody shares my feelings.  I however did not expect to get hammered by somebody who does not know me.  I agree the TC team did incredibly well and has great talent.    I also want to know if anyone knows of a select team in the Golden Triangle Area for ages 13-14.  Does anybody have any information on that subject?

[homerunbetty]

It is the attitude of the parents that is causing the problem.  The kids have nothing to do with this....It is people like you that take it too far. 

Exactly!  There are a lot of parents out there that feel the way you do.  Some voice their feelings.  Others hide behind them.

The reason why I posted what I did was due to all of the comments on pages 1 through 10 that showed absolutely no feelings toward the kids and consisted of nothing but parent talk.  I don't expect any of the parents on here to agree with what I said.  Especially since there is no way you can see what you are doing to your children.  It has nothing to do with pushing them and wanting them to do good.  But the actions that were stated on this thread do not show your thoughts and concerns are for the children.  Parents fighting?  Coaches fighting? 

Who is the competition for?  Is it for the child to learn about baseball?  Or is it for the parent in the stand to be able to say "my child is better than your child."

When someone is confronted with the truth and they know they are wrong, that person will become defensive.  Such as many of the comments made to my post.  I don't mind you attacking my research, but you know nothing about my life to make comments about what I have been through, or the children I have.

I hear all of the time from my husband about having a parent conference because their child is not playing.  Yet the parents state they have been an all-star every year they play baseball and they don't understand why.  It is parents like you that will be in that situation.  When your child comes to my husband as a Freshman and is sitting the bench for the Freshman team or is told to come back next year, maybe then you will remember.

[adminbaberuth]

OK, clue me in.

Shetland..... Do we hit off tee or pitching machine?

TC.... What league is this and the city?

[Lazeek]

Shetland is Pony League for 5-6 year olds and yes they use a tee.

TC is Twin County which is Sour Lake, Nome and China communities.

[jetski]

As a person who played Little League baseball & coached my two sons in PONY baseball, I have come to the conclusion that Little League has it right.  In Little League(unless times have changed), there is only one All-Star team per each age division.  Consequently, you don't have to worry about which team goes in as a #1 or #2, because as stated earlier, there is only one All-Star team for that particular age group.       

[VP93....]

Guys let's all just agree with each other and stop arguing...You have your option we have ours now can't we just move on...and Yes all of yall are right in some way...

[Lazeek]

TC had 3 kids that were 5, 2 that turned 6 within the last month and one that turned on Thursday night of the tournament.

The real key stat is that TC had 6 kids that have not even attended kindergarten at this point.  We were a very young team, but we did very well and are proud of our kids.

[Tideman99]

Baseball wins again.

The cruelest sport every invented, The high hopes of the parent of every young boy, as they battle their way through the divisions of baseball. The evolution theory actually works here, only the strong survive and they Ultimately lose against our adversary known as Baseball. Yes we say its a team sport and it is, except its based on the individual player " Oh it is not your fault Johnny" but it really is. Moms and Dads hate it when their baby makes a mistakes,But such is life, drop balls, Strike Outs, Pop ups, Bad throws. Little Johny has to learn how lose if he is going to be successful in life. And Baseball will make sure that he does. Baseball does not love you, it hates you, it wants to crush your head and laugh at you, it has won the battle for over a hundred years and will always win. Baseball is unbeatable. And as Little Johnny grows up the ball gets faster the fields get bigger, the base are further and it just isn't what it used to be. And then he quits. " I don't like playing anymore, I'm burnt out" he says. Oh the disappointment, just remembering the thousand of dollars spent, the hours of driving back and fourth from practice to lessons to games, The corn dogs and nachos and the five dollars bowls of space ice cream, three hundred dollars bat every year for what.

I know. time spent with your kid, hours of playing with them, pushing them to try harder, showing them what it takes to lose and how to deal with it. Well I say screw you baseball, We are gonna keep playing.

[hillbilly]

VP93, 

              thank you !!!!!   Who knows who might turn out to be a great baseball player or whos gonna collect baseball cards the rest of their life and be happy about it. Like I stated earlier ( may the best TEAM win and they did ) .  Every town in the golden triangle represented its town with great athletes and every town ought to be happy!!!! I know that T. C. had 24 outstanding players that represented Sour Lake very well and Im very proud of them. But the way I look at it is that I still got up and went to work the next day, its not the end of our lives guys.  We have plenty more years to grow as an area community with our kids but were all gonna have to get along!!!!  I would have loved for our team to be the ones that are going to Irving but it did'nt end up that way and I HOPE VIDOR BRINGS  HOME THE BACON. I WOULD MUCH RATHER SEE ONE OF OUR AREA TEAMS WIN THAN A HOUSTON OR ANY OTHER TEAM!!!

[tgreen]

well said diamond dog!!!! good luck to all teams in the pinto tournament.

[texcoug]

Baseball wins again.

The cruelest sport every invented, The high hopes of the parent of every young boy, as they battle their way through the divisions of baseball. The evolution theory actually works here, only the strong survive and they Ultimately lose against our adversary known as Baseball. Yes we say its a team sport and it is, except its based on the individual player " Oh it is not your fault Johnny" but it really is. Moms and Dads hate it when their baby makes a mistakes,But such is life, drop balls, Strike Outs, Pop ups, Bad throws. Little Johny has to learn how lose if he is going to be successful in life. And Baseball will make sure that he does. Baseball does not love you, it hates you, it wants to crush your head and laugh at you, it has won the battle for over a hundred years and will always win. Baseball is unbeatable. And as Little Johnny grows up the ball gets faster the fields get bigger, the base are further and it just isn't what it used to be. And then he quits. " I don't like playing anymore, I'm burnt out" he says. Oh the disappointment, just remembering the thousand of dollars spent, the hours of driving back and fourth from practice to lessons to games, The corn dogs and nachos and the five dollars bowls of space ice cream, three hundred dollars bat every year for what.

I know. time spent with your kid, hours of playing with them, pushing them to try harder, showing them what it takes to lose and how to deal with it. Well I say screw you baseball, We are gonna keep playing.

Well said. 

[td]

I remember the Pinto problems we had last year in TC. I will say this ,there is alot of good people in TC and I have some friends over there as well.But there was a handful of problems.

   I was at the game last night and I wouldn't say shocked because I have seen alot, but really dissappointed.There was a earlier post about the kids eating at mazzio's together and just worrying about how to team up and get more tickets.That really about sums it up.These kids just want to play ball and have fun.Win or lose on the way home they are either thinking about what Wii ,or playstation game they are going to play, and or how they can convince there parents if little Johnny from the team can stay the night with them.

  I agree the umpiring could have been better, but thats just baseball and everyage group has that.

I remember last year I coached the Pinto all stars and I met a great group of guys from Orange(TD,and Chad)and Orange's  parents. Before every game we would talk, and AFTER we called eachother.Yes they beat us and they had the better team and advanced to the State tournament. Then our Shetland  team beat Orange in the finals and advanced to the state tournament..I called up to Dallas everyday and Talked to the Orange's coach and was wishing them the best of luck and rooting them on.They to inturn the same people that got beat in the Shetland division was up in Dallas rooting our Vidor team on and vice versa.That right there folks is class and that is the way to handle youth sports . It was good to hear all the way here at home that both parents and coaches from Vidor and Orange who knocked eachother out of the finals  in different divisions were up there cheering and supporting one another.

   I will say this and then I am done.The more excited the coach gets, the more excited the parents get.The more "professional" and "calm" the coach remains, the more the fans remain calm.Coach you are ultimately responsible for your parents.If you hear a parent hollering at a kid ,and you dont say anything then that means you are approving of it.

Good luck to both teams and it should be a good one Friday!

Corey, right back at you.  We have always enjoyed playing Vidor and Groves. 

This topic is one of the reasons my son and I are not playing/coaching all-stars this year.  It got pretty ugly last year also.

Chad

That goes for me too Corey Vidor was a good group to coach and play against last year. I'm not coaching and my boys aren't playing this year either. I can say that one difference between all-stars and select ball is that the coaches get along. I have shared ideas and strategies with teams from Nederland and Bridge City. Those are the two teams that we have either scrimmaged or just gotten to know. don't get me wrong you still have a few coaches that get out of hand but most of the coaches are there to help kids regardless of where they are from. Speaking of that I would love to have kids come tryout for my team next year. I will post it when time comes. It doesn't matter to us if you live in TC, Vidor, Groves, or any of the other surrounding cities. All that matters to us is that your child want to first learn the game second want to have fun and the third thing usually takes care of itself if we (as coaches and parents) take care of the first two. The third thing being wants to win.

Hey Td I coached the allstars with Cory Last year and my baby boy played left field on the shetland team and is now playing short on this years team.What age group are you going to put together?

We are plyaing 9UAA this year and my 7 and 9 year olds both play on that team. I will be moving up to 10U but I think we have a guy coming in to do a 9U team again. I will keep everything updated for tryouts.

I remember your baby boy. If he is half as good at shortstop as he was a left fielder last year then there are some teams in trouble. Both of my boys decided they wanted to playin the State tournament and the World Series instead of all-stars so I didn't put either one of them up.

[td]

I have read 1 coach from each Vidor n TC , Billy Baker, Jason Sylvester, name on a cpl of occassions along with there sons. I can say I'm somewhat pround of these 2 as I coached both, 1 @ Evadale playing in Buna LL and then Vidor PONY, I had Billy at TC. I too have read about coaches comming out to argue a umps call, I would take offense if these 2 coaches WOULD NOT come out on a questionable call. A good coach owes it to the team to challenge a questionable calls and both of the 2 mentioned above have been very well schooled in the rules and how important knowing them is as a coach. Way to go Jason n Billy giving back and helping kids do something you 2 loved so much at these kids age. 

I agree that a coach owes it to his kids to question calls. If I ask my kids to give me everything they have on every play then I owe them the same thing. I just have to do it in a manner that I don't embarrass myself, my kids or any of my parents. That being said, I'm not saying that either guy didn't do that. I was just making a point.

[td]

I am a mother of a child that made all-stars from Groves.  This is the first year that he has played allstars and the second year in baseball itself.  Before the tournament on the weekend of the 21st he was so excited to finally get to be an all-star.  We practiced everyday in the yard and he gave everything he had at his actual practice.  Going into the tourney that weekend I saw the light in his eyes and his passion for the sport go out of him when we heard that Vidor had put their A-team as the B-team.  That put a train coming down the path of my sons team.  Just the thought of the A team playing his B team (yes he is smart enough to know what the difference is) upset him.  He knew (as did the team and the coaches) that they were going to get beat right off of the bat.  In turn I had to console him after the first loss as to why a city with so much talent would do that to other 4,5,and 6 year old kids? Why would they crush them like that?  Just to win, what does that teach their kids? I am starting to agree with some other parents on this thread.  I am not sure next year, if he is chosen that i am going to let him play.  But ultimately it will be his choice.  My son has incredible talent and i would hate for him to hate the game or quit playing because of an experience like that.  On the other hand, we played TC on Sunday.  It was more of a fair match up against our team.  The kids were actually the size of 4,5 and 6 year olds. Again incredible talent and we had absolutely no problem with the fans.  Both sides cheered for all the kids on both teams.  I think Vidor is the one with the problem.     

If you are not going to let him play then you should not even put him up for all-stars. If you put him up and he is selected and then you don't let him play then you have just taken a spot from another deserving kid that wants to play.