Some Get Pardoned, Some Get Killed

[LumRaiderFan]

7 minutes ago, Big girl said:

Yes you were

Nope, you and your lefty buddies are the only ones upset about Trump pardons while not a peep about Biden’s pardons.

No one here is surprised.

[OlDawg]

A lot more going on here than just pardons for drug traffickers. The U.S. has neglected Central & South America for a long time. Under the Reagan Administration, the U.S. paid special attention to the region, and helped bolster democracies. Interesting that a Democratic Congress that constantly harassed Reagan politically, and tried to sabotage him at every opportunity, almost allowed Communism to flourish in Central/South America all those decades ago for simple political gain at home. Since Reagan, it's been kind of a back-burner issue, and issues have grown to a point where they HAVE to be addressed for REAL National Security purposes.

What has happened since?

• Nicaragua--where we helped the Contras battle the Sandinistas/Communists and establish a democracy--is now a full blown dictatorship under Ortega. In 40 years, he moved the country from a birthing democracy to autocratic rule with help from who? The Sandinistas.
• Honduras--recent election barely beat back the Marxist/Communist party. Trump succeeded in helping keep the communist party at bay for now. But, he may have opened a can of worms by basically presenting the Executive Branch as above the legal system with his pardon of JOH.
• Venezuela--no explanation required.
• Panama/Costa Rica--Still somewhat stable. But, China is exerting a great deal of influence in Panama, and CR--as the historically most stable democracy in Central America--is under economic duress.
• El Salvador--Recently (July '25) rescinded Presidential term limits. Generally, a first step towards an Autocratic government.

These are just a few of the issues. China and Russia are focusing on, and making diplomatic and economic inroads in the region. The Panama Canal is basically being operated by Hutchison Holding (controlled by the CCP), and Panama has joined the Belt & Road Initiative.

At any one time, three or four countries in the region flip between Marxism/Communism, Autocracies, or corrupted Democracies. Lately, through neglect by the U.S., the liberal Marxists have taken a real, tangible foothold in the entire region economically, and politically. Russia and China both have military presences in the region now.

It appears the Trump Administration has recognized the issues, and is trying to address again. Thus, the pardon. Debatable if it was a good move or not. That's up to smarter people than me and history. But, it appears to have been a way to curb Honduras from becoming another Marxist regime at least temporarily. Sometimes, there aren't any 'good choices.' There's just bad, and worse. That's what happens with neglect and appeasement.

As it was when I was more directly involved, if we aren't careful, Mexico will be the only thing standing between us and a Communist China/Russia satellite region called Central America.

As I said in the beginning of this post, there's a lot more going on here than drug traffickers.

[OlDawg]

While the Dem's are playing petty politics just like with Reagan, the situation has gotten much worse. Someone needs to stop worrying as much about other regions, and focus on our own hemisphere...

Hearts, Minds, and Uniforms: New Data Reveals China and Russia’s Growing Military Diplomacy Footprint in Latin America and the Caribbean

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[OlDawg]

On 12/2/2025 at 8:30 AM, UT alum said:

Commander-in-Chief has alleged drug runners killed, possibly murdered then he pardons a man serving 45 years for helping get 400 tons of cocaine into the country, in an effort to affect another country’s election. That’s some sick doo doo.

 

On 12/2/2025 at 8:51 AM, Big girl said:

He disgusts me.

You are free to disagree with many things about this Administration. But, I've posted relevant information that shows your ignorance of the bigger situation.

NOTE: I'm NOT calling either of you ignorant. Just unaware (the actual meaning of 'ignorant') of bigger things going on, and why an election caught the attention of this Administration.

[thetragichippy]

24 minutes ago, OlDawg said:

 

You are free to disagree with many things about this Administration. But, I've posted relevant information that shows your ignorance of the bigger situation.

NOTE: I'm NOT calling either of you ignorant. Just unaware (the actual meaning of 'ignorant') of bigger things going on, and why an election caught the attention of this Administration.

This morning I was watching CNN, as I often do to see the other side.....usually I can only take a few minutes. 

They were speaking on the boat attack, that CNN went all out on the "kill them all" narrative, from one "anonymous" source, that should of never been seriously reported on, and as most reasonable people assumed, it was not true.

So, now they were questioning if the second strike should have occurred,  STILL calling it a possible war crime (when I know THEY KNOW, that is not true) - When there is a mission to eliminate a target, if the first shot does not get it, there is always a second shot, no matter who's around. 

My point of that rant, is if all you watch is CNN and related media, I can see where UT and BG get their opinions......

[DCT]

2 hours ago, thetragichippy said:

This morning I was watching CNN, as I often do to see the other side.....usually I can only take a few minutes. 

They were speaking on the boat attack, that CNN went all out on the "kill them all" narrative, from one "anonymous" source, that should of never been seriously reported on, and as most reasonable people assumed, it was not true.

So, now they were questioning if the second strike should have occurred,  STILL calling it a possible war crime (when I know THEY KNOW, that is not true) - When there is a mission to eliminate a target, if the first shot does not get it, there is always a second shot, no matter who's around. 

My point of that rant, is if all you watch is CNN and related media, I can see where UT and BG get their opinions......

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[OlDawg]

2 hours ago, thetragichippy said:

This morning I was watching CNN, as I often do to see the other side.....usually I can only take a few minutes. 

They were speaking on the boat attack, that CNN went all out on the "kill them all" narrative, from one "anonymous" source, that should of never been seriously reported on, and as most reasonable people assumed, it was not true.

So, now they were questioning if the second strike should have occurred,  STILL calling it a possible war crime (when I know THEY KNOW, that is not true) - When there is a mission to eliminate a target, if the first shot does not get it, there is always a second shot, no matter who's around. 

My point of that rant, is if all you watch is CNN and related media, I can see where UT and BG get their opinions......

‘Anonymous source’ after viewing classified material in a highly restricted SCIF room?

[Reagan]

2 hours ago, thetragichippy said:

This morning I was watching CNN, as I often do to see the other side.....usually I can only take a few minutes. 

They were speaking on the boat attack, that CNN went all out on the "kill them all" narrative, from one "anonymous" source, that should of never been seriously reported on, and as most reasonable people assumed, it was not true.

So, now they were questioning if the second strike should have occurred,  STILL calling it a possible war crime (when I know THEY KNOW, that is not true) - When there is a mission to eliminate a target, if the first shot does not get it, there is always a second shot, no matter who's around. 

My point of that rant, is if all you watch is CNN and related media, I can see where UT and BG get their opinions......

The commie lame stream media is known for their "anonymous" sources.  That's on par when things don't go any liberal's way they holler "racism"!  

[Big girl]

24 minutes ago, Reagan said:

The commie lame stream media is known for their "anonymous" sources.  That's on par when things don't go any liberal's way they holler "racism"!  

Why doesn't Trump know anything about what happened?

[Reagan]

5 minutes ago, Big girl said:

Why doesn't Trump know anything about what happened?

He knows exactly what happened.  He's not gonna tell the press anything.  As well as it should be.  The "kill them all" statement never happened!  

[thetragichippy]

3 hours ago, DCT said:

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From your article.....

Tom Cotton of Arkansas, the Republican chair of the Senate intelligence committee, said: “I saw two survivors trying to flip a boat, loaded with drugs bound for the United States, back over so they could stay in the fight.”

Ya know......a few things.....

There has been 23 drug boats destroyed by the Trump administration.  How dumb are these folks to think they won't be #24? Seems like natural herd thinning.......

Secondly, in war you destroy the target......Democrats are using this just like the Epstein "files"

[OlDawg]

9 minutes ago, thetragichippy said:

From your article.....

Tom Cotton of Arkansas, the Republican chair of the Senate intelligence committee, said: “I saw two survivors trying to flip a boat, loaded with drugs bound for the United States, back over so they could stay in the fight.”

Ya know......a few things.....

There has been 23 drug boats destroyed by the Trump administration.  How dumb are these folks to think they won't be #24? Seems like natural herd thinning.......

Secondly, in war you destroy the target......Democrats are using this just like the Epstein "files"

True. But, you also don't have to have a POTUS bragging, showing videos that don't need to be shown, and warning the target that clandestine operators are coming. Kind of defeats the purpose of clandestine operators. His big mouth and bravado puts their lives in danger more than necessary. Handle first. Talk about it after folks are out of harm's way as much as possible.

[baddog]

They get overtime, hazardous duty pay, and a life vest. DEI is the law and no drug test required. I feel bad for the fish. Fentanyl and coke can’t be good for them.

[baddog]

Did Obama and Seal Team 6 take Bin Laden prisoner? Did the U.S. throw life preservers to the Kamikazes who survived? How about the Highway of Death in Iraq? Did Japanese pilots land and arrest survivors on December 7th? Anything anti-American you libs jump on the wagon. What a terrible mind set to always be for the other guy.

[DCT]

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[OlDawg]

59 minutes ago, DCT said:

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Rand Paul was not involved in the SCIF briefing. In addition--regardless of what you hear from the chatter class and others--there's no accepted standards under IHL or Geneva that govern treatment of terrorists. You can quibble about these folks being classified terrorists. But, all of this is very gray.

This would all be moot if the U.S. used other assets. But, my personal belief is the Administration is going this particular route to also force a leadership change, and wants everyone in the region (and our global adversaries) to know this hemisphere is still under U.S. control/protection.

Truthfully, this isn't a very efficient way of dealing with the situation of drug trafficking. It's being done for other reasons.

[DCT]

2 hours ago, OlDawg said:

Rand Paul was not involved in the SCIF briefing. In addition--regardless of what you hear from the chatter class and others--there's no accepted standards under IHL or Geneva that govern treatment of terrorists. You can quibble about these folks being classified terrorists. But, all of this is very gray.

This would all be moot if the U.S. used other assets. But, my personal belief is the Administration is going this particular route to also force a leadership change, and wants everyone in the region (and our global adversaries) to know this hemisphere is still under U.S. control/protection.

Truthfully, this isn't a very efficient way of dealing with the situation of drug trafficking. It's being done for other reasons.

It makes a lot of sense to just release drug traffickers because the DOJ was too harsh and trafficker were not being treated fair.  
Every CON man he has pardon wasn’t treated fair.  Doesn’t matter that individuals were tried, found guilty and sentenced.  He has released more CON men than any sitting president.

Two men dangle from a boat then attempt to complete there mission because the drugs were safely on board even after being overturned during the initial strike.   The initial strike split the boat in half and capsized the remains. For 41 minutes, the two individuals were seen struggling to stay afloat and waving as a U.S. aircraft flew overhead.  How were they trying to complete their alleged drug mission into the U.S.?

[DCT]

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[OlDawg]

43 minutes ago, DCT said:

It makes a lot of sense to just release drug traffickers because the DOJ was too harsh and trafficker were not being treated fair.  
Every CON man he has pardon wasn’t treated fair.  Doesn’t matter that individuals were tried, found guilty and sentenced.  He has released more CON men than any sitting president.

Two men dangle from a boat then attempt to complete there mission because the drugs were safely on board even after being overturned during the initial strike.   The initial strike split the boat in half and capsized the remains. For 41 minutes, the two individuals were seen struggling to stay afloat and waving as a U.S. aircraft flew overhead.  How were they trying to complete their alleged drug mission into the U.S.?

The vessel itself was still a legitimate target as it wasn't totally destroyed. It was in international waters. This renders Article 2 & 3 moot because of territory. As to the survivors, they can be classified as illegal combatants (who have no legal protections under Geneva, and very limited/unagreed upon protections under IHL), or they can be classified as criminals.

I believe it's been established by testimony that the individuals weren't specifically targeted for extermination.

The 2 individuals basically have no more rights under Geneva or IHL than a spy. They bear no allegiance to any particular country, and they aren't in uniform. Their intent is to deceive. Thus, they are afforded minimal protections.

This is a debate because the Administration chose to use direct affiliated military personnel & equipment, and the debate of terrorist vs criminal is ongoing.

It's also a debate because many feel offended by someone being killed for any reason. But, for some reason, drug induced deaths are looked upon as more of the victim's fault by some even though they're dead just the same. Why aren't the drug smugglers who are dead looked upon as it was more their fault as well?

I wouldn't condone murder by directly affiliated DOD personnel in uniform. That would be strictly against U.S. law, UCMJ, Geneva & IHL. But, I don't believe this has been established as that yet. Again, the boat was a legitimate target.

[DCT]

12 minutes ago, OlDawg said:

The vessel itself was still a legitimate target as it wasn't totally destroyed. It was in international waters. This renders Article 2 & 3 moot because of territory. As to the survivors, they can be classified as illegal combatants (who have no legal protections under Geneva, and very limited/unagreed upon protections under IHL), or they can be classified as criminals.

The 2 individuals basically have no more rights under Geneva or IHL as a spy. They bear no allegiance to any particular country, and they aren't in uniform. Their intent is to deceive. Thus, they are afforded minimal protections.

This is a debate only because the Administration chose to use direct affiliated military personnel & equipment, and the debate of terrorist vs criminal is ongoing.

Where are the drugs?

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December 6,2025

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[OlDawg]

26 minutes ago, DCT said:

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What's your point? That fraud is equivalent to murder of thousands by illicit drugs?

[OlDawg]

17 minutes ago, DCT said:

Where are the drugs?

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December 6,2025

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Is this a serious question?

[Reagan]

 

Why are Demoncrats so frickin evil?!