'zero tolerance policy' during Jeep Weekend

[thetragichippy]

There were more than 400 officers used this weekend on the Bolivar Peninsula, not counting EMS, the paddy wagons, etc..... They had check points at both ends of the peninsula, checking every vehicle for any traffic violation.  I imagine that is costing Galveston County a pretty good chunk of change. I doubt the revenue from the tickets will put a dent in it. 

They sure sent a message. I'm a law abiding citizen for the most part. I always have a valid ID, well maintained vehicle and proper insurance. I do speed occasionally, understanding the risk and knowing I may receive a ticket. However, when I go to the beach for relaxation, I don't want to wait in line 1 to 2 hours to basically prove I'm doing nothing wrong....or get a ticket because I didn't realize a license plate light was out......

There were 275 arrest........52 were felony charges, the rest misdemeanors..... I would like to see the number of "warnings" they gave....my guess, not many if any at all. 

I totally back the blue, always have, but I feel this was an over the top response to trying to fix a problem. 

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[baddog]

49 minutes ago, thetragichippy said:

There were more than 400 officers used this weekend on the Bolivar Peninsula, not counting EMS, the paddy wagons, etc..... They had check points at both ends of the peninsula, checking every vehicle for any traffic violation.  I imagine that is costing Galveston County a pretty good chunk of change. I doubt the revenue from the tickets will put a dent in it. 

They sure sent a message. I'm a law abiding citizen for the most part. I always have a valid ID, well maintained vehicle and proper insurance. I do speed occasionally, understanding the risk and knowing I may receive a ticket. However, when I go to the beach for relaxation, I don't want to wait in line 1 to 2 hours to basically prove I'm doing nothing wrong....or get a ticket because I didn't realize a license plate light was out......

There were 275 arrest........52 were felony charges, the rest misdemeanors..... I would like to see the number of "warnings" they gave....my guess, not many if any at all. 

I totally back the blue, always have, but I feel this was an over the top response to trying to fix a problem. 

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I see your point but the Jeep drivers brought this all on themselves. I’m sure there are lots of good people involved in Jeep weekend, but the bad ones have put a black eye on the event.

[thetragichippy]

14 minutes ago, baddog said:

I see your point but the Jeep drivers brought this all on themselves. I’m sure there are lots of good people involved in Jeep weekend, but the bad ones have put a black eye on the event.

It was not targeting the jeepers IMO - it was targeting everyone......and I looked at the arrest mugshots on Galveston County page....NONE of those folks looked like Jeepers,,,,,and they were arresting folks for no seat belts, brake lights out and cracked windshields.....among other more serious crimes

[baddog]

8 minutes ago, thetragichippy said:

It was not targeting the jeepers IMO - it was targeting everyone......and I looked at the arrest mugshots on Galveston County page....NONE of those folks looked like Jeepers,,,,,and they were arresting folks for no seat belts, brake lights out and cracked windshields.....among other more serious crimes

Really, arrested for traffic violations? I didn’t know that. I just go by the fact that, on a beautiful May weekend, the vendors would rather close their businesses than make tons of money. Like I said, I’m sure there are those who go to the beach to have a good time and not commit felonies, but Crystal Beach probably wishes Jeep weekend would go away. I have no problem with Jeep owners or Jeep weekend, but the past events speak for themselves.

[thetragichippy]

44 minutes ago, baddog said:

Really, arrested for traffic violations? I didn’t know that. I just go by the fact that, on a beautiful May weekend, the vendors would rather close their businesses than make tons of money. Like I said, I’m sure there are those who go to the beach to have a good time and not commit felonies, but Crystal Beach probably wishes Jeep weekend would go away. I have no problem with Jeep owners or Jeep weekend, but the past events speak for themselves.

yea, I think they over did it to make a point, but may have cost them more than they realize

[bullets13]

3 hours ago, thetragichippy said:

There were more than 400 officers used this weekend on the Bolivar Peninsula, not counting EMS, the paddy wagons, etc..... They had check points at both ends of the peninsula, checking every vehicle for any traffic violation.  I imagine that is costing Galveston County a pretty good chunk of change. I doubt the revenue from the tickets will put a dent in it. 

They sure sent a message. I'm a law abiding citizen for the most part. I always have a valid ID, well maintained vehicle and proper insurance. I do speed occasionally, understanding the risk and knowing I may receive a ticket. However, when I go to the beach for relaxation, I don't want to wait in line 1 to 2 hours to basically prove I'm doing nothing wrong....or get a ticket because I didn't realize a license plate light was out......

There were 275 arrest........52 were felony charges, the rest misdemeanors..... I would like to see the number of "warnings" they gave....my guess, not many if any at all. 

I totally back the blue, always have, but I feel this was an over the top response to trying to fix a problem. 

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I don't see how when many of the businesses close now, and others are damaged. Not to mention the cost of cleaning and fixing the beach every year. I'm not really sure what the legality is, but sometimes an "over the top" response is necessary to fix an over the top problem. I'm confident from seeing local residents on facebook that very few people in Galveston county are particularly upset by the drop in traffic OR the temporary closures/delays.

[SmashMouth]

Excuse my ignorance, but were there any parts of the beach that weren't a part of the Jeep weekend and weren't shut down?

I'll hold my narrative 'til I know the answer...

 

@thetragichippy @bullets13 @baddog

[baddog]

45 minutes ago, SmashMouth said:

Excuse my ignorance, but were there any parts of the beach that weren't a part of the Jeep weekend and weren't shut down?

I'll hold my narrative 'til I know the answer...

 

@thetragichippy @bullets13 @baddog

From what I understand, the beach they were allowed to drive on was one-way only. I also hear that locals who rent their cabins, allowed officers to stay rent free to put them in the scene 24 hours. This info is from my wife’s Facebook (I don’t do FB) so there is a +/- factor.

[mat]

4 hours ago, thetragichippy said:

There were more than 400 officers used this weekend on the Bolivar Peninsula, not counting EMS, the paddy wagons, etc..... They had check points at both ends of the peninsula, checking every vehicle for any traffic violation.  I imagine that is costing Galveston County a pretty good chunk of change. I doubt the revenue from the tickets will put a dent in it. 

They sure sent a message. I'm a law abiding citizen for the most part. I always have a valid ID, well maintained vehicle and proper insurance. I do speed occasionally, understanding the risk and knowing I may receive a ticket. However, when I go to the beach for relaxation, I don't want to wait in line 1 to 2 hours to basically prove I'm doing nothing wrong....or get a ticket because I didn't realize a license plate light was out......

There were 275 arrest........52 were felony charges, the rest misdemeanors..... I would like to see the number of "warnings" they gave....my guess, not many if any at all. 

I totally back the blue, always have, but I feel this was an over the top response to trying to fix a problem. 

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If I was going to relax at the beach, it would not be during Jeep weekend.

[mat]

3 hours ago, thetragichippy said:

It was not targeting the jeepers IMO - it was targeting everyone......and I looked at the arrest mugshots on Galveston County page....NONE of those folks looked like Jeepers,,,,,and they were arresting folks for no seat belts, brake lights out and cracked windshields.....among other more serious crimes

Most Jeepers are not the problem. It’s the other idiots looking for a party.

[SmashMouth]

47 minutes ago, baddog said:

From what I understand, the beach they were allowed to drive on was one-way only. I also hear that locals who rent their cabins, allowed officers to stay rent free to put them in the scene 24 hours. This info is from my wife’s Facebook (I don’t do FB) so there is a +/- factor.

Yep. It's my understanding too. I'm just wondering if other parts of the beach were available, why the jeepers, partiers, etc. weren't just diverting their little operation to those unrestricted areas. 

[thetragichippy]

2 hours ago, bullets13 said:

I'm not really sure what the legality is, but sometimes an "over the top" response is necessary to fix an over the top problem.

If I rented a beach cabin or even more realistic driving down there to play a gig ( I actually have one at the Gulf Range  July 12th) and was arrested for a taillight out or not using my blinker, I would be outraged. I get they needed to do something, but I think this was a bit much and will effect future beach rentals. I have a FB friend who rented a cabin months ago and had beachfront access but could not use the beach.....all sorts of problems this weekend. 

[bullets13]

3 hours ago, thetragichippy said:

If I rented a beach cabin or even more realistic driving down there to play a gig ( I actually have one at the Gulf Range  July 12th) and was arrested for a taillight out or not using my blinker, I would be outraged. I get they needed to do something, but I think this was a bit much and will effect future beach rentals. I have a FB friend who rented a cabin months ago and had beachfront access but could not use the beach.....all sorts of problems this weekend. 

I get all that. But I’d be just as upset if I rented a beach cabin months ago and showed up and there was thousands of drunks trashing up the beach and committing crimes 

[baddog]

I’ll just put this here. No need to start another thread.

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[tvc184]

8 hours ago, baddog said:

I’ll just put this here. No need to start another thread.

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That was almost certainly for being a jerk if the news reports are correct.

 If the police had a reason to detain him for a violation such as expired registration, he has to identify himself. The report says that he was arrested for failing to identify himself.

it was only a couple of traffic citations. Geez, identify yourself, sign the ticket and move on. 

[baddog]

32 minutes ago, tvc184 said:

That was almost certainly for being a jerk if the news reports are correct.

 If the police had a reason to detain him for a violation such as expired registration, he has to identify himself. The report says that he was arrested for failing to identify himself.

it was only a couple of traffic citations. Geez, identify yourself, sign the ticket and move on. 

Can his being arrested put his job as a police officer in jeopardy? 

[TxHoops]

4 hours ago, baddog said:

Can his being arrested put his job as a police officer in jeopardy? 

Yes

[tvc184]

4 hours ago, baddog said:

Can his being arrested put his job as a police officer in jeopardy? 

Like almost any other job, he could be fired for violating any policy violation.

It’s not quite an at-will job because there has to be cause. In an at-will job a person can be terminated for almost any reason. In his case there has to a reason. An arrest is not likely a valid reason (not proven guilty) for termination but convictions or toss in things like conduct unbecoming of a police officer and it could be.

 These are just traffic citations though. Was it an expired license plate, an open container and not presenting a driver’s license? Strangely enough, the license and expired plate are always arrest-able offenses but the open container is not if in your county.

 I suspect that he could get as little as a written reprimand (which is not public by law) or a suspension without pay like maybe 3 to 7 days.  That would be public.

I am fairly certain that the Beaumont police are under state civil service laws. All police punishments are public information however state civil service law only recognizes a suspension as punishment. Verbal or written reprimands are not considered punishment.

So could he be terminated? Sure. It will have to hold up to the scrutiny of an outside arbitrator though if they have the same grievance process that we have. So the officer’s lawyer and the city can go to one of the arbitration organizations and agree on an arbitrator to come in and hear the case. In our contract the arbitrator has to come from out of state. It is kind of like a court because each side can ask questions and call witnesses who are placed under oath.Also, if it is like ours, the arbitrator’s decision is final as it’s binding arbitration.

I really have a hard time imagining that an outside arbitrator would look at three traffic citations and determine that is a valid reason to terminate a police officer.

What we do not know and probably will never know, is if any officer has any history of policy violations unless it was a suspension.  This officer might have a spotless record. 

[thetragichippy]

17 minutes ago, tvc184 said:

Was it an expired license plate, an open container and not presenting a driver’s license? Strangely enough, the license and expired plate are always arrest-able offenses but the open container is not if in your county.

It does not make sense he refused to ID, knowing he was going to jail.....I mean, wouldn't you try and NOT arrest a fellow police officer if you could? 

[tvc184]

1 hour ago, thetragichippy said:

It does not make sense he refused to ID, knowing he was going to jail.....I mean, wouldn't you try and NOT arrest a fellow police officer if you could? 

I can do nothing but speculate but I suspect that any fail to ID was before any arrest.

Up until two years ago, the only time you absolutely had to identify yourself to the police was if you’re actually under arrest.

Of course, if you were driving, you had to present a drivers license or identify yourself, but you could not be arrested for failure to ID.

If a driver refuse to give his identification, the police had to do what I called the Texas two-step. They had to arrest the driver for a valid charge like an expired license registration and then demand an ID after the arrest.

A couple of years ago, the state finally changed that law and put failure to ID on the driver of a vehicle.

I am kind of curious if they actually saw him driving or was he in a truck that was parked? If the police were just randomly patrolling and noticed the expired registration sticker, but did not see who was driving, could they lawfully demand his ID?

Again, with knowing absolutely nothing of what actually happened, I could see a situation where it was possibly an unlawful arrest and all charges could be dropped against the Bpd officer. I would hope that the arresting officer actually knew what he was doing and probably so however, I’m not always that confident.

[tvc184]

AND…. the fail to ID law that I mentioned is Texas law.

Under Texas law, if you are not driving or you’re not under arrest, you do not have to identify yourself to the police.

In approximately half of the states, if lawfully detained, you do have to identify yourself to the police or you are committing a crime.