what changed?

[gary-us-bonds]

A team like png won state championships at the highest level. Other golden triangle teams were in the mix year after year in the 70s and 80s.

 

what has happened to change that dynamic?

are the other teams just better than they used to be? Did the setx towns lose their population? Athletes not what they used to be? Coaching?

anyone want to weigh in?

[CougarCal]

It depends on the area I think.  Being a military guy and transferring every 3 years, one of the things I looked for was a good place for football.  When new people are moving in to an area, say what you want, if they have a quality athlete, they are looking at that the facilities. They are looking at the coach, how their kid will fit in and what chance their kid will have at the next level if they move there.  I also think it goes in cycles, sometimes you get a special group with leaders, not just players!  I lived in Fort Worth before moving down to Crosby, it's the same up there.  Same type of athletes and facilities.  When they built the Allen stadium people up there were pissed off(especially when it was shut down), but they didn't want to spend the millions on it.  They did and they have a winning program.  Got to spend the $$$

[WOSgrad]

Many will point to all of the above, but I will take the measurable one...a loss of population.

When I graduated from WO-S in 1986:  The largest district, which was what is now 6A, constituted the following schools: Beaumont-Charlton-Pollard, Beaumont French, Beaumont West Brook, Nederland, Port Arthur Jefferson, Port Neches-Groves, Vidor and West Orange-Stark.  Of those schools, 3 (Charlon-Pollard and French, who were merged to form Central and TJ, who was merged with Lincoln and SFA) no longer exist.  And even the schools that they now constitute have not been able to maintain 6A numbers. 3 others have dropped to what is now 5A and another all the way to 4A.  As of this upcoming alignment, only West Brook of those 8 teams will remain in 6A and some will argue that they benefited from the infusion of students of South Park High School which was closed after the 85-86 school year.

What was the 5A district has met the same fate as to my recollection only Lumberton remains.

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

It depends on the area I think.  Being a military guy and transferring every 3 years, one of the things I looked for was a good place for football.  When new people are moving in to an area, say what you want, if they have a quality athlete, they are looking at that the facilities. They are looking at the coach, how their kid will fit in and what chance their kid will have at the next level if they move there.  I also think it goes in cycles, sometimes you get a special group with leaders, not just players!  I lived in Fort Worth before moving down to Crosby, it's the same up there.  Same type of athletes and facilities.  When they built the Allen stadium people up there were pissed off(especially when it was shut down), but they didn't want to spend the millions on it.  They did and they have a winning program.  Got to spend the $$$

yup, northeast S.A. schools certainly benefits, Wichita Falls as well. Copperas Cove used to be a yearly beast (not sure if they're one now) San Angelo Central also is good. 

 

Ppl are moving to Odessa again cause of the oilfield work, coincidentally Permian is good again and of course they have the facilities and a booster club that gets in the money…….. Hmmmm

 

 

 

 

[robanadana]

There are less kids graduating from Vidor High now than when I was a senior in 1976. Hard to compete with the new schools; money, kids, top level coaching. Hard to take a district that averages 1400 kids per school and compete with the ones that average 1900+ and a lot more money. The refineries are highly automated anymore and most of the physical work is done by contractors who are mostly migrant (turnaround to turnaround for those in the business). Unless we get some new industry here, I don't see it improving.

[skipmeister]

It's because of the economy like I mentioned in the other posts.

[TradenupBH]

My take on it is back in th 50's through 90's there were alot less schools. Texas population has exploded and the metro areas have grown to incredible numbers. There are so many different schools opening up and tons of folks moving to high income suburbs where they are creating heck of football programs. SETX pulls from families that were born and raised in those areas with not much influx in population at all. After a while the well dries up until you get that special group every 10 years (except WOS).

[gary-us-bonds]

for anyone that would know, would a 1980 png team beat a 2015 png team?

 

[liltex]

At Dayt Jerry Stewart made an immediate impact on Bronco football.He also came at a time w/some real good gene pools.15 great(HC) yrs we had w/some nice playoff runs & some real good hs fb kids graduated,some a bit better got offered scholarships & a few earned bowl rings,and a cpl made it in the NFL.We haven't grown much by our dist standards but also we've never had the luxury of having more than 22 seniors for leadership.I think that's what's been amazing.Nowadays we're not challenging for a dist title,4 teams go to playoffs w/ basically a pretty good 5 teams,2 mediocre & 2 that are overmatched.Dayt was once a proud community,nowadays the crowd doesn't support the program currently in place,therefore the kiddos lack interest to stay the course they started.One thing I want to ADD=Stewart always PLAYED his talent,where you ranked by your class as a fresh,soph,jr,sr mattered not=positions were earned by being present,accountable,willing,being a team player,hard worker & believing the coaches had their best interest,Team rule violations were stern=violation had concequences.In 20 (countem 20 yrs Dayt has had a half doz D1 atheletes & a crap load of pretty good high school football players.The more times you beat the same opponents=the smarter they get at slowing/stopping your schemes(some copy them).The world of football has changed,coaching that don't make immediate adjustments soon find a list of for hire coaches.Yes social media has a impact on trade secrets,be knowledgable as to who can/can't be trustworthy/even w/your private lives.What identifies a community?#1 Get over yourself=this is WE not ME,build a lasting relationship among the races=honor their past as well as yours(so why is there no school colors that Colbert had,1st Dayt team I know that made it to a state title)Would it be so hard to add some yellow to purple/wh.Know your neighbors people.From a generation of race issues,integration,Vietnam war=WE all stood together(w/o issues in school classes/atheletics,we all were drafted/joined & shed blood,limbs,life for our Country together,It's really shameful we can't serve God the same way=that's a promise of eternal life w/o costs,one I've chosen to follow.Sometimes God tells his followers=Stand,just stand,I'll fight your battles

Edited November 23, 2015 by liltex

[smitty]

It depends on the area I think.  Being a military guy and transferring every 3 years, one of the things I looked for was a good place for football.  When new people are moving in to an area, say what you want, if they have a quality athlete, they are looking at that the facilities. They are looking at the coach, how their kid will fit in and what chance their kid will have at the next level if they move there.  I also think it goes in cycles, sometimes you get a special group with leaders, not just players!  I lived in Fort Worth before moving down to Crosby, it's the same up there.  Same type of athletes and facilities.  When they built the Allen stadium people up there were pissed off(especially when it was shut down), but they didn't want to spend the millions on it.  They did and they have a winning program.  Got to spend the $$$

So, spending dollars equals more wins?

[smitty]

A team like png won state championships at the highest level. Other golden triangle teams were in the mix year after year in the 70s and 80s.

 

what has happened to change that dynamic?

are the other teams just better than they used to be? Did the setx towns lose their population? Athletes not what they used to be? Coaching?

anyone want to weigh in?

Coaching>  Yes!

[CougarCal]

So, spending dollars equals more wins?

definitely part of it, spending the $$$ to upgrade your facilities to get more people in the stands equates to more money you can pay a better coach.  As I've stated in a previous thread though, I think it was about Barbers Hill, hard to win without the Jimmys and Joes.  So these areas that are growing and people get jobs in the area, when their kid plays football you don't think they look at all of that?  Who is winning, how the facilities are and how that school is going to help get their kid to the next level.  The only school around SETX that really isn't like that is WOS.  Year in and year out, they compete on a high level.

[Uncle Pig]

My take on it is back in th 50's through 90's there were alot less schools. Texas population has exploded and the metro areas have grown to incredible numbers. There are so many different schools opening up and tons of folks moving to high income suburbs where they are creating heck of football programs. SETX pulls from families that were born and raised in those areas with not much influx in population at all. After a while the well dries up until you get that special group every 10 years (except WOS).

+1

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

definitely part of it, spending the $$$ to upgrade your facilities to get more people in the stands equates to more money you can pay a better coach.  As I've stated in a previous thread though, I think it was about Barbers Hill, hard to win without the Jimmys and Joes.  So these areas that are growing and people get jobs in the area, when their kid plays football you don't think they look at all of that?  Who is winning, how the facilities are and how that school is going to help get their kid to the next level.  The only school around SETX that really isn't like that is WOS.  Year in and year out, they compete on a high level.

you gotta excuse Smitty sometimes, ask the Ned fans. 

[robanadana]

for anyone that would know, would a 1980 png team beat a 2015 png team?

 

NO. They would get slaughtered. PNG won state during the 1975 season; if a kid weighed 250 on those teams he was a monster. They are bigger, faster and stronger than we ever hoped to be. The 1980 PNG team would have hell with Lumberton or Vidor from 2015, much less 2015 PNG.

[smitty]

definitely part of it, spending the $$$ to upgrade your facilities to get more people in the stands equates to more money you can pay a better coach.  As I've stated in a previous thread though, I think it was about Barbers Hill, hard to win without the Jimmys and Joes.  So these areas that are growing and people get jobs in the area, when their kid plays football you don't think they look at all of that?  Who is winning, how the facilities are and how that school is going to help get their kid to the next level.  The only school around SETX that really isn't like that is WOS.  Year in and year out, they compete on a high level.

PN-G spent tons of taxpayer dollars on a fine stadium.  Nederland hasn't -- and rightly so.  Nederland strums PN-G every year.  Help me connect the dots!

Edited November 23, 2015 by smitty

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

PN-G spent tons of taxpayer dollars on a fine stadium.  Nederland hasn't -- and rightly so.  Nederland strums PN-G every year.  Help me connect the dots!

oh a Smitty post about Ned in a positive light!  I need another beer. 

[smitty]

NO. They would get slaughtered. PNG won state during the 1975 season; if a kid weighed 250 on those teams he was a monster. They are bigger, faster and stronger than we ever hoped to be. The 1980 PNG team would have hell with Lumberton or Vidor from 2015, much less 2015 PNG.

Beg to differ.  Any team that was coached by Doug Ethridge would beat anything going on in this district.  Heck, PN-G couldn't beat Nederland this year.  Even with what was going on with Nederland's poorly coached defense.

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

Beg to differ.  Any team that was coached by Doug Ethridge would beat anything going on in this district.  Heck, PN-G couldn't beat Nederland this year.  Even with what was going on with Nederland's poorly coached defense.

ok, now the world is okay, carrying on now.….. 

[smitty]

definitely part of it, spending the $$$ to upgrade your facilities to get more people in the stands equates to more money you can pay a better coach.  As I've stated in a previous thread though, I think it was about Barbers Hill, hard to win without the Jimmys and Joes.  So these areas that are growing and people get jobs in the area, when their kid plays football you don't think they look at all of that?  Who is winning, how the facilities are and how that school is going to help get their kid to the next level.  The only school around SETX that really isn't like that is WOS.  Year in and year out, they compete on a high level.

PS -- How about that fine stadium that Beaumont has.  How has that worked out for the Beaumont teams?  Wasted tax dollars on fine stadiums do not educate one chil

oh a Smitty post about Ned in a positive light!  I need another beer. 

Facts will lead some to drink!   

 

[gary-us-bonds]

NO. They would get slaughtered. PNG won state during the 1975 season; if a kid weighed 250 on those teams he was a monster. They are bigger, faster and stronger than we ever hoped to be. The 1980 PNG team would have hell with Lumberton or Vidor from 2015, much less 2015 PNG.

I guess that can be said for any athlete from that time to now, so maybe I asked the wrong question.

 

 

 

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

PAISD killed any chance to be great after they ran Coach Mike Owens off from TJ to Tyler Lee where he won state, some off that TJ staff went to Nederland, they been winning district title after district title lately. Incompetent oldhead dumbarses on the school board at the time didn't know wth they were doing, then they let Suggs run off to Central when they created PA Memorial and he did good things there.  PA Memorial would have a state title or 5 if they didnt run ppl off. Now look: Coach Owens got him a ring and potentially could have had 3 and Colbert coordinating UNDER coach suggs now and PA Memorial has only had 2 legit shots at winning state: Jamaal junior yr and 2011. My oh my how karma rears its ugly head. They created PA Memorial to be a juggernaut in football cause of TJ becoming back good late 90s early 2000's along with Lincoln and it backfired because of coaching and dumbarse decisions by PAISD. Long as you have the good ole boy system here we will never see a championship in football here. Sometimes having your own ppl behind the ship doesn't work like you want it to, gotta expand your horizons. 

[smitty]

PAISD killed any chance to be great after they ran Coach Mike Owens off from TJ to Tyler Lee where he won state, some off that TJ staff went to Nederland, they been winning district title after district title lately. Incompetent oldhead dumbarses on the school board at the time didn't know wth they were doing, then they let Suggs run off to Central when they created PA Memorial and he did good things there.  PA Memorial would have a state title or 5 if they didnt run ppl off. Now look: Coach Owens got him a ring and potentially could have had 3 and Colbert coordinating UNDER coach suggs now and PA Memorial has only had 2 legit shots at winning state: Jamaal junior yr and 2011. My oh my how karma rears its ugly head. They created PA Memorial to be a juggernaut in football cause of TJ becoming back good late 90s early 2000's along with Lincoln and it backfired because of coaching and dumbarse decisions by PAISD. Long as you have the good ole boy system here we will never see a championship in football here. Sometimes having your own ppl behind the ship doesn't work like you want it to, gotta expand your horizons. 

Buddy, PAM had one of the best coaches in the history, some say, of the world, Ronnie Thompson.

[Stattrax]

NO. They would get slaughtered. PNG won state during the 1975 season; if a kid weighed 250 on those teams he was a monster. They are bigger, faster and stronger than we ever hoped to be. The 1980 PNG team would have hell with Lumberton or Vidor from 2015, much less 2015 PNG.

Thats a no educated post.... Do not get caught up in stats.. This year was the weakest I have seen our district since the early 80s..Lumberton made the playoffs with a team that I though was a 3A contendor. People get caught up in stats.. Im caught up in Wins.. 70s and 80s was hard nosed defenseive run it up the gut battles.. 90s and early 2000 was  more of a pro style, and nowadays its spread you out and throw it all game.. The area also has alot to do with it.. If im moving and I have my choice of Nederland or Houston, guess what, Ned can have all the pollution.. Ther is nothing to come to the area for except work, and that work is not steady.. Once common theme of all the local teams that have done good in the past is DEFENSE... Its a fact, look it up.. The last good PNG team had a great defense.. Nederland the same, WOS the same. Watch the SC on TV and you will see the team that is man up playind D usually is the SC. Take the blinders off... They take 4 teams now... 70s they took 1, then moved to 2 until 2000. Thats was the best of the best.. If you for one second think Lumberton or Vidor 2015 could beat one of those teams your insane..

[AggiesAreWe]

Thats a no educated post.... Do not get caught up in stats.. This year was the weakest I have seen our district since the early 80s..Lumberton made the playoffs with a team that I though was a 3A contendor. People get caught up in stats.. Im caught up in Wins.. 70s and 80s was hard nosed defenseive run it up the gut battles.. 90s and early 2000 was  more of a pro style, and nowadays its spread you out and throw it all game.. The area also has alot to do with it.. If im moving and I have my choice of Nederland or Houston, guess what, Ned can have all the pollution.. Ther is nothing to come to the area for except work, and that work is not steady.. Once common theme of all the local teams that have done good in the past is DEFENSE... Its a fact, look it up.. The last good PNG team had a great defense.. Nederland the same, WOS the same. Watch the SC on TV and you will see the team that is man up playind D usually is the SC. Take the blinders off... They take 4 teams now... 70s they took 1, then moved to 2 until 2000. Thats was the best of the best.. If you for one second think Lumberton or Vidor 2015 could beat one of those teams your insane..

You need to take a look at the scores in the championship games the last few years. Not many state champions keeping their opponents under 20 points.

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