UT alum

To me they only make sense when used for projects that bring in dollars from outside the region. That was the rationale back in the day when they were created. Take Dragon Industries in Silsbee, for instance. I doubt that they have many customers in the golden triangle. They have customers all over the country. That means the money they earn is bringing dollars from other places, not just recycling local dollars like retail and service do. That how local economies expand. Projects like that deserve EDC help. The tax is approved by local voters,too, not like abatement policies.

I agree with that. It’s a tool and a community needs all the tools in its box to compete. I don’t agree in principle.

We on the same page there, bro. For a small town like Silsbee it just creates a little slush fund for the politicos to randomly bestow cash gifts with no real plan to grow the local job market. And you’re right about holding the nose. It’s the law, so you gotta play, but I don’t think it’s a good law.

Yep, but when they’re wrong should be held accountable.

Thank you for the clarification. Still, no jobs there since ‘ 07, I think. I still think abatements are bad policy. Again, compete on the basis of who provides best infrastructure at the lowest cost. What do you think about the .5% economic development tax?

It’s the freakin’ law of the land. I don’t agree with all their decisions, but I don’t turn around and say what they decide is unconstitutional. What Constitution you reading? The 1973 decision I cited was 7-2, by the way.

You’d tie it back to the Constitution or states’ rights. A tariff is a tax aimed at influencing free market movement of goods in and/or out of the country. That’s an ok tax, I take it. Oh, and Supreme Court doesn’t agree with you as to constitutionality of food stamps. [Hidden Content] And yes, I have read the Constitution, but I don’t claim to be a scholar. I’ll leave interpretation to the courts, where it belongs.

I knew it. So what about tariffs? Answer to your question: Voters

So if the tax reduction produces an overall gain, then give it away, right? Then chew on this one. Food stamps increase GDP by around $1.50 for every dollar spent. Good investment, or not?

How is tax giveaway part of your free market? A facility is either going to be profitable or not. You're suggesting that the government be involved in economic development. I was not involved in negotiating a bad deal. If I remember correctly, 10 years is the max that could be forgiven. I don't know if LP would've not reopened had we done no deal. Our tax burden is not that great. No one wanted to call their bluff. There's a gas plant in North Dakota that got 10 years no taxes if they built the plant, ten years were up, they closed the plant. Never paid a dime of tax, jobs went away. Tax abatements are bad deals in and of themselves. I know you're going to disagree with almost anything I say, but competition between cities and states to provide the best infrastructure at the lowest cost sounds a lot closer to free market than let's see which state will give away the most money to get the deal.

How about this? Wouldn’t it be better if all states and communities competed for who could provide the best services at the lowest cost? Best tax rate wins, not who gives away the most money? I was part of a group who negotiated Hardin County’s first tax abatement agreement with LP back in the late eighties or early nineties. Ten years they paid either no or reduced local taxes. What’s sitting out there now? They did operate a few years after the abatement expired, but I still question the return our community got out of that giveaway.

Ok. So Jeff Bozo, owner of the liberal fake news Washington Post walks and you blame liberals? How about a billion and a half or so of corporate welfare? Do you realize what kind of a strain on local infrastructure 25000 jobs would bring? Streets, utilities, schools - all stuff taxpayers fund - and the company goes scott free from paying for any of that? If I were a taxpayer there I’d be to’d. Plus, what I’ve read Amazon didn’t even try to negotiate, they just walked away. Virginia only had to give away $750,000,000 to get their prize. That’s one place conservatives kick liberals’ butts - they fight. Tax abatement is a scourge on property owners everywhere. I guess it’s okay for makers to be takers.

Nope

Low life? Really?

Damned women. If they’d have just stayed in the kitchen, the country wouldn't be going to hell.

Like I said, millions of wasted tax dollars. Indictments? Convictions? Zero. A witch hunt that proved nothing.

Millions of wasted tax dollars.

That’s not what I said.

It’s not a matter of rich vs poor. It’s how a society decides to use its assets. You say corruption and mismanagement don’t exist? Poor governance is the medium that allows them to flourish.

Corruption, economic mismanagement (remember oil falling from $110+ to around $20 - they didn’t plan well at all) and undemocraric governance beginning with Chavez and intensifying under Maduro drove the transition, not increases in benefits and services to takers.

No. What policies? Medicare? Medicaid? Social Security? TANF?CHIPS? SNAP? Universal Healthcare? Voter laws? It was a valid question.

Right on. We all gonna be alright.

Dead end. Leave with a shake?

You gonna listen to a Kiwi pass judgement on our political system? That’s a bs list. If he’s in Beck’s corner, that’s enough said for me. A lot of the references went back to the seventies. When they were young. Like Kavanaugh. Youthful indiscretion, you know. How much stock would you put in a Dane dogging Trump and his toadies?