Rez Ipsa

5 hours ago, A BUC 77 said:

Wow.  Y’all won a state championship and everyone congratulated you.  Now it’s time to rub it in our faces.

This thread was started by a Nederland guy

46 minutes ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

ELITE DISCUSSION HERE

Active State Championship Coaches

S Surratt    9
G Joseph     5
J Herring    4
R Allen    4
T Westerberg     4
S Harrell     3
H Carter    3
R Rhoades    3
C Koetting    3
J Kasowski    3
J Fieszel    3
K Hoffman     3
L Fedora     2
T Rodgers     2
W Keeling     2
J Gibson    2
D Boedeker    2
J Todd    2
M Fannin    2
J Bomar    1
S Ponder     1
J Thompson     1
J Miller    1
M Kirchhoff    1
T Sitton    1
T Ward    1
J Willis     1
J Alvarez     1
C Abseck    1
C Worrell    1
R Tullos    1
J Drennon    1
B Carney    1
S Huff    1
D Hyde    1
J King    1
T Reeve    1
B Butler    1
R Ebner    1
C Tackett    1
D Henigan    1
B Gotte     1
M Lovorn    1
S Doty     1
C Mathis    1
D Faith     1
M Ables    1
R Samples    1
T Beatty    1
 

Missing Jeff Joseph. And Samples has 2 now. 

35 minutes ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

There are 49 active coaches that have won 1

That’s out of more than 1,500 high schools in Texas. 

On 12/21/2023 at 8:01 AM, LCMAlumtiger32 said:

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After watching Coach Todd in this, he mostly has a reasonable take. He seems to be more focused on whether there were procedural errors that need to be corrected, not on challenging the results of the game. He basically says, “It’s not the reason we lost, but it’s not a good look for the game.” Mostly, we all agree with that (leaving out the fact that he should have been the one to police which refs are playing in the game). He doesn’t allege any wrongdoing by PNG, he simply ascribes the situation to the fact that ref crews really, really want to coach in the state championship. Again, I think he should take more responsibility for not doing his own, or sufficient, diligence on the ref crew. Of course, he says he disagreed with the call but it’s his job to disagree with the call. I don’t expect him to like it. I wish he would get it right that the ref from SETX isn’t the one who made “the” call. And he even admits that the kid who had the call against him had been warned at least two times by the ref. Overall, a pretty reasonable discussion, even I don’t totally agree with all of his perspectives. He may be cocky but he’s not dumb, and I don’t think he’s behaving maliciously against PNG or being a bad sport. There might be someone else at DISD stirring up a storm just for the optics or out of bitterness or something, but Coach Todd comes off looking pretty fair here.

On 12/16/2023 at 7:45 AM, Mustang1980 said:

We are now experiencing what it is like to hire a head coach with no head coaching experience. First thing he does is change offense and defense. Lack of success and lack of discipline have kids leaving the program. We have the same kids as Gilmer. Difference is in coaching. There was a time when kids wanted to wear that Mustang helmet from the time they were babies. They dreamed of that day when they could put on the blue and silver and run out on the field. Mustangs had swagger and it all started with quality coaching and high expectations and discipline. By the way, kids gravitate toward discipline instinctively. They instinctively gravitate toward accountability. These are good things that lead to success. You are getting what you are going to get out of HH. This is it. It’s time to hold RH and HH accountable for their records. Look at what is happening over at PNG. Oh that’s right… they went out and searched the state and opened up their wallet for Jeff Joseph and look at the results. WOS should be running deep into the playoffs every year and be in the running to make it to state. Right now we are a fourth place team at best limping into the playoffs with zero confidence and zero quality coaching.  Our community and kids deserve better.  RH and HH should be fired. By the way, RH’s record in improving academic scores is abysmal . A real superintendent committed to academics and athletics is needed. In addition a real extensive and exhaustive search for a quality HC AD REGARDLESS OF COLOR is needed immediately. We cannot be okay with average whether it’s academic or athletic. Say what you want, a successful winning WOS football program charges our community and brings us all together. We cannot sit by and let 43 years of Mustang  tradition die without speaking up.

This! 

2 hours ago, outanup said:

This grievance will go nowhere.....The local referee in question didn't get a knock on his hotel door at 10 am that morning with his assignment to officiate said game. He knew well ahead of time what game his crew would be officiating.  He also had to think at some point this could be a bad situation to put not only himself but his team and community in. You know take the high road, do the right thing and bow out. He chose other wise. I would be willing to bet it was an oversight on several levels that created this situation. At the end of the day he, imo was no way a factor in SOC losing the game. jmo

This matches my feelings. Even as a png fan, I don’t like the idea of a guy so connected being on the crew. Did it affect the outcome? No. But it should have been avoided.

That being said - All of the things the “disqualify” him can be waived by the coaches’ agreement, and beginning the game with that ref crew constitutes agreement. That means, once they start the game they lose the opportunity to have an opinion on the choice of ref. So, it could be that the coaches asked them to do the game, information was provided, none of the coaches said anything, and at that point they assumed the members they put forward had been approved. It’s not the ref’s job to do their research for them when the information has been provided equally to both sides.

Still, I think it would have been better for him to have been left off. 

8 minutes ago, pine curtain said:

Todd even said the ref warned him 2-3 times before he flagged them for hands to the face.

The ref knew he should not be calling that game.

Perception is reality no matter if anything happened or not

The ref has kids that go to PN-gisd and he owns a business that services the PN-g community.

You know if he would have made a call against PN-g it would have effected his business.

It is a no win situation for him and PN-g.

If the ref wasn't from PN-g this would not even be an issue today.

 

 

Who says he has kids that go to PNG? Not arguing - I don’t have any personal knowledge, but I heard he had no kids at PNG. 

This won’t go anywhere. Even if the complaint wasn’t ludicrous, what is the result they think will happen? Overturn every other moment in the game and give the championship to SOC? 
 

I would very much like to see every email and other written communication exchanged between the teams, and between the teams and the ref crew, as well as all of the information that was made available to both sides. SOC is claiming a “lack of transparency,” but I think this is going to more a case of, “you tricked me by me not reading what I was supposed to read.” 
 

I AM curious how a guy with “Port Neches” in his bio ended up on the crew. It seems like something he should have recused himself from. On the other hand, if both sides agree, what harm has been done? 
 

None of this changes the fact that everyone has to deal with bad, even heart-breaking calls. All of us remember games, even in the playoffs, where a ref didn’t call a penalty - or did call a penalty - that we disagreed with. There were several such instances against PNG in this playoffs. If PNG had lost, SOC wouldn’t be complaining about the non-call on PI in the end zone (by the same guy who did the PI that later got called) that stopped a PNG touchdown. They are teaching their kids and community a horrible lesson. 

9 hours ago, FearTheSpear said:

I look for this team to actually be better next season.  I’m excited to see the Davis Freeman kid play LB next season.  He was the one with the cast on his arm who always seemed to thump someone on special teams. That’s one thing this team lacked was that “thumper” in the middle similar to Nick Gardiner the year prior.  

Man, Nick Gardiner was so good.  

For PNG:

PAM

FBM

West Orange Stark 

2 minutes ago, PN-G bamatex said:

A popular student athlete unexpectedly passed away two days prior to the game.

I wasn’t aware of that at all. Terrible. 

5 minutes ago, Right99JOH said:

Here I am... what?!?!  Responding on a message board?!?... Yup,,, Here I am.  Just because I don't follow high school athletics like it's my job, doesn't mean I won't chime in when someone says something negative about Vidor athletics. 

Being on this site at all already shows more dedication than most fans. I’m not knocking it. Welcome, Dedicated High School Football Fan!
 

2 minutes ago, Right99JOH said:

I don't get my rocks off on high school football past or present, so there's not comforting needed...and who beats who 1 time, 11 times, 1,000 times has NO bearing on my life... but you keep living your life vicariously through a bunch of teenage boys. 

FYI... I had to google when Montana played, record, and stats.  I don't keep that in the memory bank,

And yet you’re here …

15 minutes ago, Right99JOH said:

Whatever helps you sleep at night..... and don't be so quick to say that Montana was the "best" football player Vidor ever had. 

I think it’s more about you comforting yourself that the slot t, which has had almost no success for Vidor against good teams, is some kind of super special magic trick because ya’ll won a game 11 years ago. Vidor has beaten png a total of 11 times in 80 years, despite having nearly as many chances. Believe me, I don’t need any help sleeping at night in relation to Vidor.

and, seriously, who was better than Montana?  

7 minutes ago, Right99JOH said:

2012 Vidor had over 500yds against PNG

You’re correct. That was by far the worst team PNG has had in probably more than 20 years, paired with the best player Vidor has ever had. Everyone but Silsbee and Lumberton had their way with us in 2012.  I don’t think it had anything to do with the choice of offense.

27 minutes ago, PN-G bamatex said:

I don't wholly disagree with this statement, but I will make two counterpoints.

First, the 2009 Indians could have won the state championship. Had it not been for a bad first half against Brenham played under the worst circumstances imaginable, I continue to believe today that PN-G would have played for the state championship that year, and would have had a very real shot at beating Aledo. Joe Dale Cary left after 2010, and the PN-G defense never recovered under Faircloth's leadership. That was the factor Faircloth was really missing, in my opinion.

Second, offense may be entertaining for the fans, but I believe a strong defense is a huge factor in fan engagement, at least in any way that impacts the game. Most fans know not to be too loud when their team is on offense to avoid disrupting the snap count, and to be very loud when their team is on defense specifically because they want to disrupt the snap count or force other mistakes. Fans with confidence in a good defense are more likely to participate in that way, which in turn helps make the defense more successful, in turn boosting fan confidence in the defense. In short, they feed off of each other. For the Indians, the proof was in the pudding this year. The Indian Faithful were louder and more involved in the game this year than I can remember them being at any point post-2009.

I agree we had a real shot at state in 2009. That’s a game I’d love back. Just curious : what were those “worst circumstances?”

10 minutes ago, outanup said:

Cant remember the exact numbers but, no matter your enrollment. If your district had teams with small enrollments the top 2 went regardless...We have similar numbers now and fall in the small school category. Summer Creek , Pearland Dawson, Georgetown , SV, Manvel were big school back then....Several more i cant think of off the top of my head. way different competition....imo

 

It was unfair - Everything depended on what district you came from. You could have a couple 1450 student schools playing 2,000 student schools just because a couple teams with 1449 made the playoffs in their district. 

6 hours ago, outanup said:

Big school vs Small school route.....No way  11,12, 13, Nederland Teams would have fallen to Liberty Hill  had they drawn them in the semis.....Matchups....

The 2012 d line would have been a great matchup with LH 

6 hours ago, NHSBulldogFan said:

There are no coach challenges or requests for a review only the replay official determines if and when to stop play for a review.

Thank you. I was confused because someone (I don’t remember who, but it was someone in a journalist position) emphasized that the SOC coach didn’t say anything about the “call” in the three minutes after it happened

Are coaches allowed to challenge calls during the state championship games? I mean, make a challenge during the game that requires a review, like in the pros. 

1 hour ago, Reagan said:

I was told by a friend on here that Nederland's coaching directed weight training program was basically non-existent.  This is part of the future of a potential elite coach.  It appears PNG has it right. Some laugh when I say there's no difference in the athletes at Ned and PNG. Then they say, well, how can you say there's no difference, look at them.  I said there is no difference in the athletes that "are available" to each team.  Now, how each coach develops what's available to them is the difference in what you see now between PNG and Nederland.  

100%. 

38 minutes ago, navydawg31 said:

Faircloth ran a great tremendous program at PNG! Won many many games for them, and his last year there he went to what round 4? Faircloth had a great winning culture, solid foundation was laid for Coach Joseph and company to come right in and get to work. It’s crazy to me the transition PNG had tho went from an offensive team we going to outscore you to a defensive team and limit positions. I mean look at that FBM Marshall game 7-0 win they had. But look how it has played out, offense will win you some games, but Defense wins championships!! 

I’m still a huge Faircloth fan. He certainly put a lot of fun teams together. And we were a better-than-average team most of the time, and we had a few great teams under him. Not to mention sending several qbs to play college ball. 

1 hour ago, dadofabulldog said:

Coaching is the clear difference. Look at WOS a few years ago vs now.  No culture change, just a different coaching staff. PNG under this coaching staff goes to state with at least one of R Johnson teams.  Joesph takes over a Faircloth team and goes to state the next season. I’d go as far as saying that this current PNG staff would have took one or two of the 2014, 2015 Nederland teams to state. 

Definitely the 2012 team 

12 minutes ago, glassjoe said:

And another coach 

 

What coaches and to where, or does anyone actually know? 

1 hour ago, PN-G bamatex said:

We keep having this debate over talent versus coaching. I personally think the right coaching is the most important factor in the success of any program, but I also think we shouldn't ignore the interplay between the two. As I stated in another thread, the best coaches find a way to get the most out of their kids, whether they've got a ton of talent or none. To be clear, I'm not just referring to motivation, or discipline, or execution, or community support and program culture, or adapting a system and a playbook around the personnel. I'm also referring to player development.

A strong strength and conditioning regimen is an important part of any successful football program. Some programs are much better at developing their talent than others. If we're being honest, that's Nick Saban's secret sauce. When Saban brought in Scott Cochran to revolutionize the Alabama weight room shortly after Saban arrived in Tuscaloosa, Alabama became a championship contender in two seasons. Kirby Smart lured Cochran to Georgia to do the same thing plus coach special teams, and then Georgia won back-to-back national championships in Cochran's second and third seasons in Athens. Many Alabama fans, myself included, felt Cochran's absence in Tuscaloosa was the missing factor during the last few seasons when we seemed to lose some of our intensity. Coach Joseph will be the first person to tell you PN-G's success under his tenure started in the Indians' weight room during spring training.

My point is, good coaching will develop talent to realize its full athletic potential. Granted, that relies upon some stock level of talent at the start of the process. Without that development, however, the potential is never reached, and that is almost entirely a factor of coaching.

The physical difference in PnG’s players after one off-season under Joseph was obvious. We went from being skinny high school kids to developed athletes. The progress only continued into year two. I don’t know if Faircloth just didn’t have a lot of faith in the weight room, or thought we were already doing enough, but it’s clear now there was another level to get the boys to.