stevenash

I dont have to take any time.  I disagree with your assessment about the talent,skill, intellect at Ozen and also with your theory that Mr. Boutte would somehow magically transform them into something substantially greater than they are.  No, I dont think Bird is better than M.J.  Nor is anyone else for that matter.  If you are going to sit there and try to convince everyone that Ozen goes to Austin this year if Boutte is coaching, you are dreaming a giant dream.  I emphasize that this is just my opinion and that doesnt count for much.  There is only one difference in that respect between you and me.  I know what I don't know. One more question:  Are Rick Carlisle and Eric Spoelstra the same coaches they were 3 years ago?  Also, is the K. Perkins 3 point attempt at the state tourney a result of "good coaching"?

That offer will save you lots of $ because hot dogs are not sold at the concession stand.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1168227" timestamp="1327953702"] [quote author=AggiesAreWe link=topic=95117.msg1168219#msg1168219 date=1327952910] I think getting paid 6 figures and being the AD at a 5A school had more to do with Boutte leaving Ozen than the lack of talent. ;) [/quote] Thank you so much for having the common sense to answer this one correctly, AAW.... 8).... People..... Ozen was in the state title game just one year prior to him leaving for Port Arthur...Had NOTHING to do with a perceived drop in talent.  He even asked the BISD administration if they could even come CLOSE to what he was offered in PA, and he would stay..The response was if they gave him the salary adjustment, they would have to do so for Simon (Westbrook) and Rice (Central) as well at that time. Which is why he went to PA when they called....IN DECEMBER!  ;).There is STILL more talent RIGHT NOW at Ozen than there is at Nederland.  ::)....No shortage there. [/quote] More talent at Ozen than Nederland?-  Possibly.  More skill?- Doubtful  More basketball intellect ?  Not a Chinamans chance in "you know where".  I think Larry Bird pretty well proved that there is something more to basketball than athleticism which, for many is used as a synonym for talent.

The countdown continues (much to the chagrin of a few) 29 hours and 20 minutes

If one believes that Mr. Boutte has knowledge/experience/coaching secrets that are largely responsible for his success and are not available to others, don't you wonder why those who have coached at Memorial during his AD tenure have not had greater results with him being in such close proximity?

[quote name="BADSANTA" post="1168124" timestamp="1327943768"] [quote author=PoppaBearstarr link=topic=95061.msg1168103#msg1168103 date=1327941771] I wont have anything to do with the broadcast, AAW AND LAZEEK will be handling that, However I don't think BS will show up....Or say that he is there but really not be just like last game...There is a reason for his initials to be B.S. ;) [/quote] Really? I wont be at the game because that's to far to drive on a work night. As for Poppabearstar, I would expect you to be at the game. All I ask is that you don't try and sneak your cans of barbque flavored Vienna sausage into the game. [/quote] Ok, Santa- I can convince him not to bring the Vienna Sausage.  But if he does that, will you be willing to leave your 6 foot gold chain and fake tatoos in your car?

[quote name="east texas bb" post="1168193" timestamp="1327950180"] I agree 100 percent.  In John Wooden's book, you would be surprised by who he lists as coaches he thought were the best.  He even said alot of his success was due to him being in the right place at the right time. [/quote] I hope everyone is reading the above.

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1168188" timestamp="1327949754"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=95117.msg1168185#msg1168185 date=1327949569] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=95117.msg1168101#msg1168101 date=1327941470] [quote author=speechless link=topic=95117.msg1168092#msg1168092 date=1327940537] I think it is funny any time someone who is not a coach tries to determine who is a good coach and who is not.  Especially in the high school ranks. [/quote]I define good coaching in high school by how the coach put together his team; knows each player's role and defines that role to the player and puts them in the [color=red]best situation[/color] to win on the court. [/quote] Would you agree that there are many coaches who meet your above criteria who havent even sniffed a state championship? [/quote]Yep, a lot of good coaches never make it to State. And at the same time, I know a few bad coaches who made it to State, just on their talent. [/quote] Thank you for confirming what I have been saying all along (although I know we dont want anyone to believe we agree on anything)

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1168101" timestamp="1327941470"] [quote author=speechless link=topic=95117.msg1168092#msg1168092 date=1327940537] I think it is funny any time someone who is not a coach tries to determine who is a good coach and who is not.  Especially in the high school ranks. [/quote]I define good coaching in high school by how the coach put together his team; knows each player's role and defines that role to the player and puts them in the [color=red]best situation[/color] to win on the court. [/quote] Would you agree that there are many coaches who meet your above criteria who havent even sniffed a state championship?

Sure- if you have $250 to wager.  Will leave the t-shirt stuff to you

:D :D :D

;D

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1168154" timestamp="1327946685"] Yates HS had ZERO state championships and ONE appearance (1983) before Greg Wise arrived... ::)....The person on the sidelines matters. [/quote] And I contend that there are NUMEROUS other factors that contribute to winning a state high school championship.  If Brian English takes the place of Wise today, I dont believe their chances for success are any less by any stretch of the imagination.  Furthermore, if Wise comes to Bridge City, don't count on any state titles in the near future.

[quote name="FanintheStands" post="1168138" timestamp="1327944308"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=95117.msg1168136#msg1168136 date=1327944217] If we magically transfer an assistant coach from a losing program in this area over to Yates and they win a title, will we be able to claim that he was a great coach or were there other factors that played a larger role in that title? [/quote]Instead of creating an imaginary scenario, let me ask you, how do the NFL coaching analysts rate Barry Switzer?  ;) [/quote] I will bet they dont rate him nearly as highly as the college coaching analysts do.  Same is true about Bud Wilkinson.  John Calipari and Rick Pitino (two excellent college coaches ) failed miserably in the NBA but I believe both will be remembered just as are Switzer and Wilkinson

If we magically transfer an assistant coach from a losing program in this area over to Yates and they win a title, will we be able to claim that he was a great coach or were there other factors that played a larger role in that title?

[quote name="FanintheStands" post="1168123" timestamp="1327943717"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=95117.msg1168119#msg1168119 date=1327943273] [quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=95117.msg1168097#msg1168097 date=1327940855] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=95117.msg1168082#msg1168082 date=1327938509] [quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=95117.msg1168079#msg1168079 date=1327938013] I think you are wrong, Steve, in saying Lenny Wilkens could have done all that Phil Jackson did.  Phil was the right man at the right time in being able to handle so many egos long enough to keep successful programs together (Chicago and LA). I noticed on ESPN the other night, the all time number of games coached in the Super Bowl.  Don Shula had the most with 6, but at the number 9 and 10 spots were Marv Levy and Bud Grant.  Marv and Bud never won a super bowl out of 4 trips each.  I don't see anybody putting them at the same level as Don Shula, Chuck Knoll, Tom Landry, Bill Bellicek, etc. [/quote] Then you are telling me that "only Phil" can handle egos and Lenny can't?  You don't think it has anything at all to do with being at "the right place at the right time"?  Are you saying that Brian English and Todd Sutherland could not switch places and have about the same success?  If you or I become the head baseball coach at Bridge City, there is a very good chance the team will do well in the playoffs.  Will that reflect how good of a coach that either one of us is? [/quote]No, Steve, I did not say that ONLY Phil can handle egos.  I think that Phil handled egos better than the average coach, and nothing about Lenny Wilkens showed that he had that ability.  I'm not saying he didn't have it, but I'm just saying that I never saw it. Brian English is a fantastic coach, and those who know him TODAY will acknowledge that he is as good as anybody else around, probably even Todd Sutherland.  But 30+ years from now, when you and I aren't around to argue the ego-handling of Phil and Lenny, nobody will remember Brian English unless he has put some trophies in the case. [/quote] I must disagree.  I don't believe that you need to be remembered 30 years later in order to have been a good/great coach.  I remember Vince Lombardi but am willing to bet a dollar to a donut there were plenty of other good ones at the same time.  Nobody will have much recollection of Pat Foster but I happen to believe he was a very good coach and did as well as anybody could have done with his circumstances. [/quote]I don't disagree with you.  But the Pat Fosters of the world will fade away, while the coaches that have National Title Banners (or State Title Banners) are the ones who will be remembered. Take Vince Lombardi,  Who were the coaches of the Chiefs and the Raiders when Vince won his first two Super Bowls.  Where are their names in the annals of history? Don't forget, Steve,  Your initial premise reads, "[i]Good coaching- Is winning a state championship [u]a large determinant[/u]?[/i]"  ---- not, "[i]Good coaching - is winning a state championship [u]the only determining factor[/u][/i]".  I think state titles (and national titles for college) are a large determining factor for deciding who was a good coach.  Not the only factor, but certainly one of the factors. I don't know, maybe its just me. [/quote] I guess we can just both have our opinions.  I will tell you , though, that even thow I remember only Eisenhower and Patton, I think there were quite a few other leaders that helped us win the war.

[quote name="BADSANTA" post="1168102" timestamp="1327941664"] Who has the best coaching staff in SETX? Does a state title define you as great or is it wins? [/quote] I dont think a title, by itself, tells that much.  If a coach comes in and turns around an unproductive program that ultimately ends up with a state title, I think that says quite a bit more about his abilities than just winning one.  If the Heat win the title this year, I dont think that will be an adequate determination that Eric Spoelstra was a better coach than Don Nelson even though one might be more inclined to remember Spoelstras name at some point down the road.

[quote name="FanintheStands" post="1168097" timestamp="1327940855"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=95117.msg1168082#msg1168082 date=1327938509] [quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=95117.msg1168079#msg1168079 date=1327938013] I think you are wrong, Steve, in saying Lenny Wilkens could have done all that Phil Jackson did.  Phil was the right man at the right time in being able to handle so many egos long enough to keep successful programs together (Chicago and LA). I noticed on ESPN the other night, the all time number of games coached in the Super Bowl.  Don Shula had the most with 6, but at the number 9 and 10 spots were Marv Levy and Bud Grant.  Marv and Bud never won a super bowl out of 4 trips each.  I don't see anybody putting them at the same level as Don Shula, Chuck Knoll, Tom Landry, Bill Bellicek, etc. [/quote] Then you are telling me that "only Phil" can handle egos and Lenny can't?  You don't think it has anything at all to do with being at "the right place at the right time"?  Are you saying that Brian English and Todd Sutherland could not switch places and have about the same success?  If you or I become the head baseball coach at Bridge City, there is a very good chance the team will do well in the playoffs.  Will that reflect how good of a coach that either one of us is? [/quote]No, Steve, I did not say that ONLY Phil can handle egos.  I think that Phil handled egos better than the average coach, and nothing about Lenny Wilkens showed that he had that ability.  I'm not saying he didn't have it, but I'm just saying that I never saw it. Brian English is a fantastic coach, and those who know him TODAY will acknowledge that he is as good as anybody else around, probably even Todd Sutherland.  But 30+ years from now, when you and I aren't around to argue the ego-handling of Phil and Lenny, nobody will remember Brian English unless he has put some trophies in the case. [/quote] I must disagree.  I don't believe that you need to be remembered 30 years later in order to have been a good/great coach.  I remember Vince Lombardi but am willing to bet a dollar to a donut there were plenty of other good ones at the same time.  Nobody will have much recollection of Pat Foster but I happen to believe he was a very good coach and did as well as anybody could have done with his circumstances.

[quote name="FanintheStands" post="1168079" timestamp="1327938013"] I think you are wrong, Steve, in saying Lenny Wilkens could have done all that Phil Jackson did.  Phil was the right man at the right time in being able to handle so many egos long enough to keep successful programs together (Chicago and LA). I noticed on ESPN the other night, the all time number of games coached in the Super Bowl.  Don Shula had the most with 6, but at the number 9 and 10 spots were Marv Levy and Bud Grant.  Marv and Bud never won a super bowl out of 4 trips each.  I don't see anybody putting them at the same level as Don Shula, Chuck Knoll, Tom Landry, Bill Bellicek, etc. [/quote] Then you are telling me that "only Phil" can handle egos and Lenny can't?  You don't think it has anything at all to do with being at "the right place at the right time"?  Are you saying that Brian English and Todd Sutherland could not switch places and have about the same success?  If you or I become the head baseball coach at Bridge City, there is a very good chance the team will do well in the playoffs.  Will that reflect how good of a coach that either one of us is?

Lots of talk on here in other threads about what defines a good coach and some complaints about it getting off topic so I thought it might be good to discuss it under this thread.  My own personal feeling is winning a championship is very nice but it does NOT define the competency of a coach-  I think there are plenty of good coaches who are in situations where it will be virtually impossible to win a state title and, at the same time, I think there are other situations that give just about any good coach an opportunity to win a state title.  I have mentioned it before but will repeat my feelings  that Lenny Wilkens (NBA Hall of Fame as both player and coach) could have done anything that Phil Jackson did if he had been in the same circumstances.  He never won an NBA championship but I believe he was as good a coach as there has been in the NBA.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1167951" timestamp="1327893763"] [quote author=forum link=topic=95086.msg1167943#msg1167943 date=1327891219] You forgot one... Coach English will suddenly become a bad coach. [/quote] That will NOT happen...Nederland is an average team, as far as talent goes, but Coach English is an excellent coach....Thus, the MAIN reason for their recent success....Those kids play very hard, and are a disciplined group...They are not going to out-talent very many teams, but they get the job done. I know I give the Nederland fans a hard time, and its all in fun, but NO ONE will deny the fact that Coach E has done a masterful job in Nederland. Now...with that said....the streak ends this week....write it down!!  :D [/quote] Dickie- How about a friendly wager between you and me?  If Nederland loses both games this week, I will pay you $250.  If they split, nobody pays anything.  If Nederland wins both games, you pay me $250.  Fair enough?

[quote name="BADSANTA" post="1167938" timestamp="1327890060"] I'd imagine that all of the HJ faithful could fit comfortable in that cell. If Silsbee wins this game, I'd expect SteveNash to call a town hall meeting to address this tragic occasion.  HJ fans I hear raccoons are stealing chicken eggs this time of year. Be sure to wrap those up or gather as many as possible before leaving for the game. I'd hate for you to return home and have your stomachs all set for a nice plate of eggs and porridge then come to find out there are none. That's the kind of thing that could break my heart! [/quote] No, what will break your heart is the embarrassment of Sleepy/Lazeek embarrassing the "you know what" out of you if and when you muster the courage to play the oft discussed match.  You are right.  If Silsbee wins the game, I will call a town meeting to see how many people need to ride in a chartered bus to the playoffs.

Will you and Lazeek be interviewing Badsanta at halftime so he can promote his new personal version of " How To Win Friends And Influence People"?

[quote name="BADSANTA" post="1167913" timestamp="1327885611"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=95058.msg1167888#msg1167888 date=1327881658] Santa- Why not come to Sour Lake on Monday night and I can arrange for you to have your own suite at the Hilton [img][Hidden Content]_ I thought this was HJ's gym? [/quote] That's what it will feel like for you

[quote name="FanintheStands" post="1167890" timestamp="1327881971"] [quote author=no-look link=topic=95013.msg1167843#msg1167843 date=1327872451] We were down 66-0 once and the other team (Alto)faked a knee with six seconds left and throwed a long touchdown...and won 72-0 [/quote]HJ was killing Buna in football about 10 years ago.  The QB was told to take a knee and instead he tried to bootleg it in right before half.  He didn't play the rest of the game. [/quote] WIsh they had that issue today