stevenash

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166368" timestamp="1327603174"] [quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=94873.msg1166366#msg1166366 date=1327603083] Okay, fine. Now let's finish what Speechless was alluding towards. [/quote] He's alluding toward having talent...which is a cop out, and is what you guys are trying to insinuate is the reason for Boutte's success over the years, and thats just not fair, nor is it accurate. [/quote] Talent levels have plenty to do with his success( or anybody else's for that matter) and you are insulting everyones intelligence to suggest otherwise.  If you are correct, then he would have had similar results at Bridge City?  I don't recall any amazing accomplishments at Kountze.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166251" timestamp="1327593164"] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=94873.msg1166246#msg1166246 date=1327592704] Dang! Where I'm from those are strong statements. Boutte needs to come out of retirement for a year or two ;D [/quote] Then it will be some OTHER reason if he does and runs this area....again! 8)....He likes his cush office and polo shirts and slacks too much to give it up now!! ;D...BUT...You never know... ;) [/quote] I commend you for your loyalty and admiration.  But a dose of common sense/reality would be a nice addition.  Dickie, you are the one who insisted that somebody else try to look at this without bias.  You are way too close to this situation to make any unbiased evaluations

Dove- I can't believe you waited that long to get in on this.  I will, of course, be unable to confirm your contention.  When the talent pool is down, there is only so much a guy can do.  As I said earlier, Pat Knight is getting quite a bit more out of the Lamar team than his predecessor with essentially the same players but Lamar is hardly dominating the conference.  I can assure you that the presence of Bill Belicek as head coach of the HJ football team would NOT, under any circumstance, propel them to district champs.

I get what you are saying.  You can talk about "schemes" and "approaches" all day long but if the players arent there, the coach cannot, in my opinion, have the impact that you think they can.  You are telling me that Phil would have done what he did whether Red was coaching or not but are telling me 100% opposite in the Nederland/Ozen case.  When you began all of this, you requested that somebody TRY to be unbiased and for you.  I think in this case the ability to be unbiased is very understandably impossible for you.  Pat Knight is getting considerably more out of virtually the same team that Lamar had before he got here, but he hasnt made them a world beater  and I feel like Mr. Knights basketball pedigree is every bit as good as Mr. Bouttes.  NOBODY suggested basketball players at Ozen came out of the womb.  I made the analogy to golf success at Hj and you simply can't disprove said analogy.

And the point you are missing is that several people within this thread disagree with your contention that the mere presence of Coach Boutte would alter the accomplishments of Nederland over the last 18 months.

Pt. Arthur Lincoln was going to continue to do relatively well if they had hired someone other than Boutte as the next coach.  And yes, when I say basketball factory, I am referring to where that particular sport has the highest degree of interest from within the student body.  Definitely a fact at both Lincoln and Ozen.  Hardin Jefferson won mutliple state championships in golf and with a different coach most of the time.  They excelled because the kids in that area grew up on a golf course thus making their environment conducive to golf success just as the Lincoln/Ozen environments lend themselves to basketball success. With all due respect to Coach Boutte, I am very confident that the Nederland record last year and this year would be unchanged if Mr. Boutte was the Ozen coach.  I will ask you ONE MORE TIME- Would Phil Jacksons success have been lessened if Red Auerbach had hung around and coached longer?

Dickie- Are you unwilling to acknowledge (and it is a fact whether you are willing or not) that Mr. Boutte coached at virtual basketball factories?  Nobody knew anything about Ozen because it was a new school and once again, you have to admit that the attendance policies for Ozen were not what they were for the other schools in the area.  I am simply saying that there is nothing that Coach Boutte "knows" that Mr. English does not "know".  Funny that you never responded to my question where I asked if Red Auerbach had hung around and coached longer, would that have had any impact on Phil Jacksons success? (Because your are implying the very same on another level)

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1166160" timestamp="1327585079"] yOU YOUNGSTERS kill me! Back in my day :D we played at the city parks and if you lost you may not get next up for awhile. IF you didn't block out, hustle, or play defense, you would not get picked up and your  teammates or any other team. But *you youngsters* know nothing about learning skill sets at the park playing 3v3 or 4v4, sad :'( [/quote] And this is because of Facebook, twitter, Playstation III and Xbox 360?

Dickie- Are you saying then that Mr. English, if placed in the exact circumstances that Boutte was in during his career, could not have produced similar results?  If so, then you are also suggesting that Boutte, if placed in Mr. English's circumstances, could have produced better results than what Mr. English achieved.  I say there is no way you could prove either.  I am pretty confident that if Tom Izzo, Coach K, Roy Williams and Bill Self all trade coaching jobs, each respective program would continue to flourish.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166080" timestamp="1327548544"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=94873.msg1166072#msg1166072 date=1327547250] Sorry- but being to the top does not, in my opinion make you a better coach.  There are plenty of great coaches out there who have never been to the top only because the circumstances surrounding them make it impossible.  Please dont suggest that coaching at Ozen and Lincoln is not a substantially large advantage before you ever step on the floor.  Furthermore, I think Mr. English might have a couple of titles of his own if his players had included Kendrick Perkins and Steven Jackson.  I can appreciate the fact that "you were there" but that has nothing to do with an objective or (as you said) non biased comparison.  I think it would be very silly of me to suggest that if Red Auerbach had continued to coach, that somehow, Phil Jacksons accomplishments would not have been as significant.  And I will still bet you a dollar to a doughnut that if both coaches were thrown in to similar circumstances(particulary ones where things are less than favorable) they would have similar outcomes.  [/quote] OK, I can go with your last statement about them having similar outcomes, but let me pose this question....How big is that "advantage" now for Ozen and Port Arthur Memorial? There is a REASON for that....One other thing...Steven Jackson was a heck of talent coming into Lincoln in the fall of 1992..he had to be taught like any other kid, but he could play as a youngster...That was NOT the case with Kendrick..He HAD TO BE TAUGHT THE GAME...Work was put in with Perk, and he became who he was with COACHING...Talk about circumstances? Rashard Lewis played HS ball in Texas too (Alief Elsik)...NO titles, no appearances...what about a guy named Omar Sneed (Westbrook) No titles, no appearances...I could go on and on, but contrary to what most people think, you cant just roll the balls out and win state titles, even when you have perceived talent..They had to be coached, and they were. You believe Coach English could do it too? Maybe...maybe not...How do you gauge it? With what has already been accomplished...You think Coach K's accomplishments were lessened because he was at Duke? I mean Scott Drew (Baylor) can coach too, but he's never been to a final four...Because he's at Baylor? maybe...maybe not...But Duke used to be a doormat too...until they made that hire..Coach K reached the pinnacle multiple times...Baylor is ranked and playing well...would they do the same coaching at Lamar right now? I think Coach K would fare a bit better...Experience tells me that. [/quote] I have no argument with anything you just said.  I do, however, believe that what Jackson and Perkins learned could have also been learned from others.  As you know, I am a Hardin Jefferson supporter.  But, I will tell you that if you bring Art Briles back to Hardin Jefferson, he will still not win the district any time soon.  At the same time, if you bring Tiger Woods to Ozen or Lincoln to coach the golf team, they aren't going to be winning any district titles.  As for having been to the top, my personal opinion is that Brad Stevens is every bit the coach that Jerry Tarkanian was and if you start them out in equal circumstances, my money is on Stevens even though Tarkanian has a national title in his resume.  I know little, if anything about cross country but if you make me the cross country coach at Bridge City, I am going to look pretty good.  Doc Rivers is the same coach as he was before Allen and Garnett arrived.  Eric Spoelstra is the same coach as he was before James and Bosh arrived.  Rick Carlisle went 35-47 at Indiana in 2006 and won the big one last year in Dallas.  I suspect there is little difference in his approach to coaching and I dont think the title means he is a better coach than Lenny Wilkens.

Sorry- but being to the top does not, in my opinion make you a better coach.  There are plenty of great coaches out there who have never been to the top only because the circumstances surrounding them make it impossible.  Please dont suggest that coaching at Ozen and Lincoln is not a substantially large advantage before you ever step on the floor.  Furthermore, I think Mr. English might have a couple of titles of his own if his players had included Kendrick Perkins and Steven Jackson.  I can appreciate the fact that "you were there" but that has nothing to do with an objective or (as you said) non biased comparison.  I think it would be very silly of me to suggest that if Red Auerbach had continued to coach, that somehow, Phil Jacksons accomplishments would not have been as significant.  And I will still bet you a dollar to a doughnut that if both coaches were thrown in to similar circumstances(particulary ones where things are less than favorable) they would have similar outcomes. 

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166043" timestamp="1327544487"] [quote author=NB-Dawg link=topic=94873.msg1165817#msg1165817 date=1327515095] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=94873.msg1165814#msg1165814 date=1327514850] [quote author=DogFan3 link=topic=94873.msg1165790#msg1165790 date=1327510717] LOL in trouble??? really?? They always get fired up for bigger games!! [/quote]We will see. [/quote] ::) Yes we will! ;D 27 in a row, and still those in doubt, Love it! These kids thrive in big games, and they will continue doing so! [/quote] 27 in a row is a great feat...congratulations....Quick question, and please give me a non biased answer, NB-Dawg....would Nederland be on a 27 game winning streak if Boutte would have stayed at Ozen? Just think about it and TRY to be non-biased with your answer. [/quote] I noticed you suggested that he be non biased.  Would that apply to you as well?  While you may know plenty about Coach Boutte, I am highly suspicious you dont know nearly as much about Mr. English who is a very accomplished coach in his own right.  I will also assure you that Mr. English has done quite a bit when the gene pool was not that good, a circumstance that Boutte rarely, if ever, encountered.  I would like to pose this hypothetical question to you Dickie V just for grins.  If Mr. Boutte and Mr. English went somewhere to coach and both inherited a low level of talent but teams with virtually identical characteristics, do you have any legitimate reason to believe that either team would do better than 500 against the other?

[quote name="octfeb" post="1165967" timestamp="1327531057"] [quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=94889.msg1165965#msg1165965 date=1327530696] [quote author=Diamond-J link=topic=94889.msg1165960#msg1165960 date=1327529836] You may and you might But not LAST NIGHT! As predicted last summer the Broncos completed the District sweep over the eagles last night.............good luck in the "one act play" [/quote]wow… what's with the hatorade? Really poor sportsmanship there, brother. [/quote]Dunno maybe something to do with the BH JV running all over the stands as a group taunting the Dayton players... To the point something happened didn't see what it was and the officer on duty and to come and control them. Something the BH coaches should have controlled to start with IMO [/quote] I wasnt there either but there is NO place and NO justification for taunting in high school sports.

No disrespect intended, sir but I have to believe that if this were an idea with real benefits, it would have already been employed by the "system".  As you said in an earlier post some time ago, if there is a good high school player out there somewhere, it is known by all of the "smart" guys.  I have to believe that the "smart" guys have considered and, apparently, dismissed this idea as not being particularly beneficial.  If I am wrong, you could make a fortune in the NBA by simply demonstrating how your perspective will transform their team. ;D

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1165937" timestamp="1327526675"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=94871.msg1165933#msg1165933 date=1327526174] Hmmm- You would think that if you have such a "sight" advantage, that a coach would station one of his assistants up there to provide that "enlightened" perspective.  Can you give me an example of what you see that the coach could not? [/quote]The whole court! [/quote] The coach can see the whole court also.  You are simply saying that you can view it from a different perspective ( looking down instead of across)  With all of the vast resources that the NBA has, why hasn't Phil Jackson or Doc Rivers or Eric Spoelstra posted somebody up high in the bleachers?  The "ultimate" " man from above" is Mr. Jerry Jones and that, sir, has been a total DISASTER. ;D

Hmmm- You would think that if you have such a "sight" advantage, that a coach would station one of his assistants up there to provide that "enlightened" perspective.  Can you give me an example of what you see that the coach could not?

[quote name="diego cruz" post="1165669" timestamp="1327497346"] introductions are fine,but the teams that have the bench player on the court doing the cheerleader jumps,spin,twist,salute, patty cake hand slap routines with starters are taking it to far. [/quote] What do you think of the "pat downs" that take place on introductions?

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1165880" timestamp="1327520413"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=94871.msg1165867#msg1165867 date=1327519497] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=94871.msg1165862#msg1165862 date=1327519299] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=94871.msg1165854#msg1165854 date=1327518276] The great majority of coaches are better qualified to make playing time determinations than anyone else. [/quote] I would like to think that I am more than qualified to answer the question at hand. Sometimes you just understand the terrain of certain battlegrounds, simply because you've just been there. [/quote] Not questioning your background or knowledge.  Simply pointing out to the majority of us who are not coaches that the coaches are better equipped to make the decision than most of us are. [/quote] 8) 8)...I didn't think that you were, stevenash...Although you are known for your suttle sarcasm at times! ;)...Especially between you and Bluedove! 8) [/quote] ;D

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1165862" timestamp="1327519299"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=94871.msg1165854#msg1165854 date=1327518276] The great majority of coaches are better qualified to make playing time determinations than anyone else. [/quote] I would like to think that I am more than qualified to answer the question at hand. Sometimes you just understand the terrain of certain battlegrounds, simply because you've just been there. [/quote] Not questioning your background or knowledge.  Simply pointing out to the majority of us who are not coaches that the coaches are better equipped to make the decision than most of us are.

The great majority of coaches are better qualified to make playing time determinations than anyone else.

Lots of "productivity" takes place without showing up in the stats

;D

[quote name="BMTSoulja1" post="1165418" timestamp="1327458261"] Dunk count 1-0 Central.  News alert.  Central's head coach have yet to get up and call a single play.  Smh.  I'm starting to think he does not know how to draw up a play. [/quote] ;D

Y E P

Soulja-  Are you disappointed or impressed with the number of sweet mid range jumpers and/or dunks executed by your team so far?