stevenash

[quote name="BADSANTA" post="1166959" timestamp="1327696238"] La Marque is coming to 3A boys. My old college roommate who is a teacher there said their numbers average close to 675 on a good week. Yates won't be coming down anytime soon. HISD has had a record year for drop outs. Small the school, the less funding you get. [/quote] Will they be required to start fewer fights when they drop to 3-a?

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166976" timestamp="1327697775"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=94929.msg1166901#msg1166901 date=1327690850] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=94929.msg1166878#msg1166878 date=1327688560] [quote author=baddog link=topic=94929.msg1166876#msg1166876 date=1327688388] I love it!!!!! Now we are paired against Wheatly and Yates!!!! Who the heck else from around here can beat those teams? Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!! I love it!!!!! Keep squirming. Next up, the Rockets!!!!! [/quote] Oh boy.. ::)....wanna bet that the "amazing district streak" ends at Central or Ozen? ;) [/quote] I already accepted one bet that you offered but you never responded.  You name the stipulations of this bet and I will respond immediately. [/quote] OK, stevenash, no problem...What about Yates? I mean, is it whoever gets them first, or what? I need some parameters here... ;) [/quote] Parameters?  Me make the parameters?  Little old common, ignorant, me?  No- It is up to the one with all of the knowledge to make the parameters.  And then, an unenllightened observor will decided how to bet.  You draw the lline and I will make my choice.  As I said earlier, the only thing we will have to decide is how much and who will hold the $ until someone is due their winnings.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166882" timestamp="1327689041"] [quote author=baddog link=topic=94929.msg1166879#msg1166879 date=1327688791] You misunderstand as usual. The Rockets would be the next team someone pulls out of their hip pocket to beat us. Hey, if and when we lose, we lose. I didn't think district games were important enough to bet on. [/quote] If I misunderstood, please pardon me...Be proud of your team...you should be! ;) [/quote] And don't let anyone tell you that the reason your team/coach is doing well is because of some special circumstances that wouldn't have occurred if some other circumstances existed.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166878" timestamp="1327688560"] [quote author=baddog link=topic=94929.msg1166876#msg1166876 date=1327688388] I love it!!!!! Now we are paired against Wheatly and Yates!!!! Who the heck else from around here can beat those teams? Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!! I love it!!!!! Keep squirming. Next up, the Rockets!!!!! [/quote] Oh boy.. ::)....wanna bet that the "amazing district streak" ends at Central or Ozen? ;) [/quote] I already accepted one bet that you offered but you never responded.  You name the stipulations of this bet and I will respond immediately.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166859" timestamp="1327686725"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=94929.msg1166850#msg1166850 date=1327685756] No doubt about that.  With all due respect sir, I am suggesting that the "wisdom" that you offered is already possessed by said individual. However, if Coach K (with whom said individual spent several days in the recent past) offers some advice, I am confident he would take every advantage of it. [/quote] Here we go with the name dropping... ::) ::)...I have had the pleasure of meeting and speaking with him on several occasions myself...since you brought it up..Dean Smith as well...You must remember I have had the pleasure of coaching sought after "talent" as you guys like to put it, and so has my dad...met a lot of these coaches when I was a mere kid, and most of them remembered me too when I saw them again as a coach...With that said, a GREAT coach, and great PEOPLE has the ability and the humbleness to learn from ANYONE with wisdom to offer...No matter how big or small you may THINK it is. [/quote] Ever hear the phrase " Physician, heal thyself"?

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166822" timestamp="1327684252"] [quote author=speechless link=topic=94929.msg1166818#msg1166818 date=1327683895] Hang on now....so today Central and Ozen have more talent than Nederland. Yesterday, Ozen had no talent but, were straight up "coached" to the state tournament on a regular basis. Which is it? [/quote] If you were not always trying to plug holes, you may learn something....Its not earth shattering for a team to have more talent than Nederland...[b]The team in 2007 that WON REGION 3 AND PLAYED [/b] [b]FOR THE STATE TITLE, was on the same level TALENT WISE as this team in 2012 at Ozen...[/b]So yes...Ozen was well coached in the past and ALWAYS HAD MORE TALENT than Nederland. [/quote] One more item.  The emboldened statement you made is not quantifiable or verifiable in any way.  It's just one opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

No doubt about that.  With all due respect sir, I am suggesting that the "wisdom" that you offered is already possessed by said individual. However, if Coach K (with whom said individual spent several days in the recent past) offers some advice, I am confident he would take every advantage of it.

Why is there a "popular belief"?  How did it get that way?  Did some individual(who might be jealous of their success) go out on a personal mission and convinced all members of that "popular belief body" that something was wrong?

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166822" timestamp="1327684252"] [quote author=speechless link=topic=94929.msg1166818#msg1166818 date=1327683895] Hang on now....so today Central and Ozen have more talent than Nederland. Yesterday, Ozen had no talent but, were straight up "coached" to the state tournament on a regular basis. Which is it? [/quote] If you were not always trying to plug holes, you may learn something....Its not earth shattering for a team to have more talent than Nederland...The team in 2007 that WON REGION 3 AND PLAYED FOR THE STATE TITLE, was on the same level TALENT WISE as this team in 2012 at Ozen...So yes...Ozen was well coached in the past and ALWAYS HAD MORE TALENT than Nederland. [/quote] You can be very soundly assured that you have nothing to teach the individual to whom  you addressed that comment.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166809" timestamp="1327683459"] Nash I am talking about THIS season....Nederland is a good ball club..they are well coached and are having a great season...Its not about the "big city" stuff as you put it..My honest opinion? I feel HJ and Silsbee will be just fine going against them in the coming years..Has NOTHING to do with where they are...I am talking here and now...Greg Wise (Yates head coach) is a friend of our family and has been for years and is a Madison alum...HE CAN COACH TOO...So with the talent they have NOW, and him on the sideline, no matter how "unimpressed" with them when you saw them play, I will be willing to bet you that they would beat Nederland by NO LESS than 20 in a playoff situation. On the flip side of that, I KNOW that Wheatley is up and down, but they're style of play, dictates that...so you may see them one night and THINK they are not very good, and then face them and get your socks blown off. IMO...I will say again..IMO...Nederland cannot beat either of these teams. [/quote] Ok Dickie- You got me and I am here to take the bait.  I am ready to bet you that if they play this season in the playoffs, Wheately will not beat Nederland by more than 20 points.  You name the bet and I will name who is going to hold the money until either the game has been played or it is not possible for one to be played.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166775" timestamp="1327680501"] ???...explain "looking the other way"...please. [/quote] Hmmm- Could "looking away" possibly imply that some schools who are doing questionable things might  encounter some additional questioning?

Yes, Central has talent but so do many teams.  You just cant(or wont) acknowledge Nederlands success without a bunch of asterisks attached.  I have a  friend who coaches in the same district as Yates is in so I am a little better qualified to understand the "situations" than you believe/perceive.  As for alleging anything, my point was you are still assigning Yates the same qualities as they had a couple of years ago and it simply AINT true.  I watched them play Wheatley and there was nothing particularly overwhelming about either of them but you believe since they are from Houston, there is NO question that they are superior.  It wasnt that long ago that poor little rural HJ played Wheatley in a playoff preview game and you can be assured that their victory was anything but overwhelming in spite of the predictions of a 30 to 40 point blowout.  And dont tell me it was because Jackie Carr was not coaching them.  While we are on that topic, if you truly believe all this big city stuff, why hasnt Dallas Madison won about 7 state 3-a titles?

That is your perception of talent.  That does NOT mean it is the gospel.  Additionally, there are more components to success than what the individual abilities of the players are as the Mavericks so aptly proved last June.  As for Yates, you may be over stating Yates (again based on their "recruited" success from a couple of years ago)  I watched (this year) Yates play Wheatley and their victory was less than convincing (particularly because they trailed most of the game) and I believe the records will show that Beaumont Central beat Wheatley also this year.  Therefore, your personal perception that Yates is some overwhelming force is not validated through the comparative performances.  Also, I am VERY sure that if you had been asked to compare the "talent" of Magic and Larry many years ago, you would have given a definite answer very quickly and it simply would  not have been verifiable.

Sure, its "supposed" to be that way.  Can you tell me why it's "supposed" to be that way?  Better yet, can you tell me why if it is "supposed" to be that way that it certainly is not?  The new reality is that the "old reality" simply doesn't exist.  Can you visualize Elgin Baylor saying " wow, I wish I could be 28 years old and get on the court with LeBron James- I would show him a thing or two ?

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166742" timestamp="1327677479"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=94929.msg1166739#msg1166739 date=1327677022] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=94929.msg1166653#msg1166653 date=1327671233] On another note.....Nederland hasn't WON anything!!! 8)....Calm down.... [/quote] Guess that depends on your interpretation of "won anything".  Last I checked, there is a certain 27 game streak that is causing many detractors a considerable amount of consternation as evidenced by their efforts to discredit what Nederland has done.  Of course, if Cotton Robinson was still coaching at Buna, there is NO WAY Nederland could have done this well. >:( [/quote] That IS funny, but the truth of the matter remains.....They HAVEN'T won anything, yet...Not that they won't, but celebrating district wins? I don't know, maybe I take winning district for granted, but it was NEVER really a big deal to me, because it was ROUTINE!! (I am really pouring it on now!! ;D ;D)....Relax guys, its all in good humor.... 8) [/quote] I can certainly understand your perspective on this.  Based upon your comments, can we reasonably conclude that if Ozen or Central beats Nederland you will have ABSOLUTELY NO comment because it will be highly insignificant?

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166653" timestamp="1327671233"] On another note.....Nederland hasn't WON anything!!! 8)....Calm down.... [/quote] Guess that depends on your interpretation of "won anything".  Last I checked, there is a certain 27 game streak that is causing many detractors a considerable amount of consternation as evidenced by their efforts to discredit what Nederland has done.  Of course, if Cotton Robinson was still coaching at Buna, there is NO WAY Nederland could have done this well. >:(

Dove- would you be willing to post your personal list of 25?

The guy on the other side of this argument is going to suggest to you that these players would not have been that good if they had not been coached by a specific individual.  My contention is that there are plenty of competent knowledgeable coaches out there who would have provided similar benefits to those players and Brian English is most certainly one of them.

It's good for your traffic count.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166408" timestamp="1327606178"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=94873.msg1166407#msg1166407 date=1327606103] [quote author=bullets13 link=topic=94873.msg1166405#msg1166405 date=1327605865] so a ned. vs. vidor article thread has turned into a 10-page thread about coaching?  doesn't even seem worth trying to get you guys back on topic at this point. [/quote] I think a great number of readers took exception to the "suggestion" that under "certain circumstances" Mr. English would not be doing as well as he is.  Seems like a normal human response to me. [/quote] Well...yes he would be....27 in a row...no way...under "certain circumstances" of course!  ;D [/quote] I think the one point that you  don't understand/accept is that, in spite of your basketball background, MANY people are knowledgeable in that area and feel that their opinions are EVERY BIT as valid as yours.( and they are)  Seems like most college coaches embrace an  intense man to man defense but it would be VERY foolish for them to suggest that Jim Boeheim does not know what he is doing or that his approach is somehow less credible than theirs.  I fully understand/appreciate how successful Coach Boutte has been but he is hardly the last word in coaching.  You know the Boutte story very well.  That is great.  But there are a lot of good stories out there with which you are not nearly as familiar and I suggest you acknowledge that your opinion is not necessarily always the superior one simply because of your upbringing.  I think Pat Knight recognizes that his background does not make him, his opinions, and his approach to coaching superior to everyone else.

[quote name="bullets13" post="1166405" timestamp="1327605865"] so a ned. vs. vidor article thread has turned into a 10-page thread about coaching?  doesn't even seem worth trying to get you guys back on topic at this point. [/quote] I think a great number of readers took exception to the "suggestion" that under "certain circumstances" Mr. English would not be doing as well as he is.  Seems like a normal human response to me.

Now that you mention it, why hasn't that tradition carried on in Pt. Arthur?  Shouldn't it be easy for a new coach to take advantage of all that knowledge and experience (that nobody else apparently has)  and continue?  After all, it seems like that is what happened at Lincoln when a new young coach came in and did such a good job.  Surely he was smart enough to have taken advantage of what Mr. Gamble had to offer, right?  If he was only 22 at Kountze, then he was only 25 at Lincoln.  I am going to bet you it has more to do with basketball not being as important at TJ as it was at Lincoln.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1166381" timestamp="1327604111"] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=94873.msg1166379#msg1166379 date=1327604003] Lincoln program EXTREMELY well established prior to his arrival. [/quote] So was Hardin Jefferson before Sutherland got there...your point? 8) [/quote]   Nobody claiming Sutherland to be the Messiah  The point is a lot of what happened at Lincoln was well established prior to arrival.  But since you brought it up, the last I checked, Sutherland has been to Austin with three different teams.

Lincoln program EXTREMELY well established prior to his arrival.

There are plenty of schools where the kids "buy into the system" that never make it out of district.  Do you believe that Jackson would have had the same success without the aforementioned players?