TeamJagUS

[quote name="FanintheStands" post="966256" timestamp="1297746873"]
[quote author=hitchpin link=topic=80276.msg966253#msg966253 date=1297746655]
[quote author=Cowboys1981 link=topic=80276.msg966187#msg966187 date=1297740919]
86-48
[/quote]

ok, technically (or more accurately ACCURATELY) it was 86-60, the interesting part of this game was that the refs didn't show up so some qualified refs were pulled off the sidelines....

get this, one of them is the father of a cleveland player, one of them the father of one of the tarkington players girlfriend and well known by several other players, and the other i think someone with a cleveland connection. [b]BEST CALLED GAME I'VE SEEN THIS YEAR[/b], sure they missed a few but no big deal, NO BIAS, and we rarely get that in a game with refs that shouldn't have any interest.  :D. good job guys.


[/quote]Would it presumptuous to summarize your post with "the refs let the kids play"?
[/quote]

yeah it would i think, they didn't let garbage fouls go, they called what was obvious without getting ticky tack and kept the game under control, unlike most games this year where the refs let it get out of hand early and then start throwing techs out like candy in a parade. i didn't see any tempers flare which usually happens when they just let the kids "play".

there were bonus free throws in both halves on both sides so it wasn't like they weren't calling anything. they called traveling when it was traveling, the only thing they let go was kids slapping the backboard on a shot but i'm not even sure thats a violation these days.

[quote name="Cowboys1981" post="966187" timestamp="1297740919"]
86-48
[/quote]

ok, technically (or more accurately ACCURATELY) it was 86-60, the interesting part of this game was that the refs didn't show up so some qualified refs were pulled off the sidelines....

get this, one of them is the father of a cleveland player, one of them the father of one of the tarkington players girlfriend and well known by several other players, and the other i think someone with a cleveland connection. [b]BEST CALLED GAME I'VE SEEN THIS YEAR[/b], sure they missed a few but no big deal, NO BIAS, and we rarely get that in a game with refs that shouldn't have any interest.  :D. good job guys.

[quote name="6thman" post="960876" timestamp="1296786310"]
[quote author=LilBobcatMom link=topic=79404.msg957581#msg957581 date=1296395020]
[quote author=Team Game link=topic=79404.msg957193#msg957193 date=1296314273]
Why would it be considered acceptable to use profanity in a coaching situation. In reality, coaching is "teaching" a sport and there would be issues if the teachers were using it in the classroom. There would be all source of discipline if the students/athletes were using it as well. It all comes down to respect and being responsible as leaders.
[/quote]

I agree.  HS coaches *should* conduct themselves with the same professional behavior that a teacher would since they are employed within the education system and many also teach classes.

That being said, I think there are different "degrees" of profanity.  I probably wouldn't be bothered by (and might not even notice) a coach hollering "move your a$$", but I would have a problem with something like "lazy SOB" or "worthless m.f."  Cussing directly AT someone is not motivating.
[/quote]

Profanity is profanity no different levels!! It SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN in school sports at ALL!!!  [size=12pt][b]If a coach need to yell profanity or belittle his players he/she is not much of a coach!!![/b][/size] How will he gain more respect and motivation with this kind of behavior!!! If you think a coach should use these tactic should his players cuss him back while answering him? "Attitude reflects leadership"
[/quote]

:D  ::)

Tarkington 77-62

[quote name="mfd814" post="958924" timestamp="1296593456"]
[b]Safety concerns for travel of players and fans. [/b]  

Hardin at Warren, sub varsity cancelled, 
  Boys Varsity play at 5pm, Girls Varsity to follow, its Warren's girls Senior night, so boys will play 1st tonight. 


[/quote]

well i tried reckoning that, but roads are fine according to txdot and if it were safety why just cancel sub-varsity and not all? thanks for the response nonetheless.

are games being postponed/canceled due to travel conditions? most games are played indoors and with no threat of rain roads should be good.......what am i missing here? i'm sure theres some rationale i'm just not seeing it.

[quote name="nuthinbutnet" post="957583" timestamp="1296395718"]
As a player I was cursed at during practices and in the locker room, but never on the floor. I have since seen coaches curse at players during games. Does it happen, yes.

Does it happen in the real world? Yes. I find it interesting that when a person askes the other at work if he/she curses at home in front of the kids, most of of the time they say no. So, why then do they think it is acceptable to do it all? Why then does a coach, which let us not forget one of the roles of a coach is to be a ROLE MODEL, do it even on the floor during a game?

[b]The definition of profanity is: "Profanity is a weak mind trying to express itself strongly."[/b]

Enough said.
[/quote]

that's not a definition, that's a quote, huge difference.

[quote name="Wildcatter" post="957310" timestamp="1296329956"]
If in a baseball game the ball reaches the defensive players glove before the runner touches the base is he?

a.  safe
b.  out
c.  don't know
d.  know the call, but the kid hasn't had a hit, he runs slow but sure is cute so therefore I rule him safe as my interpretation of the rule.

Why should it be any different in baskeball?  You are not there to interpret you are there to enforce the rule.
[/quote]

he's out. did this land in the wrong thread? i miss the reference.

there seems to be three distinct lines of thought here:

1.) it's ok and necessary ALL the time
2.) it's ok here and there if used judiciously
3.) it's NEVER ok

maybe it should just be a poll.

i guessed the option 3 folks would come out in the AM  :D

i think it depends on the coach AND the kids. but to say a coach doesn't have good character because he uses option 2 is unfair, and i don't think one NECESSARILY needs to use it, but the whole rational is shock factor, to get attention, to make a point. if used judiciously it can be a very effective device.

[quote name="Two-Dogs..." post="955897" timestamp="1296158951"]
So under what circumstances would a ref end up taking the ride to austin? It seems to me there is no way that happens in reality.
[/quote]

thats a good question. i've been careful to avoid "specifics" in my posts, so i'll keep this is vague as possible because this thread is about changing the system (or at least some viewpoints that believe it should be changed) not lashing out about one particular incident.

this is what i saw tonight - no material impact on game, losing team just got beat, but to add insult to injury : in pretty much a blow out game a personal foul "miss-assigned" to a player (losing team) who was around nobody when the whistle was blown. apparently it was corrected eventually, but its not the first time this year this has happened. refs should be looking at [b]jerseys not faces[/b], some of our players "look similar", that shouldn't be penalized. i'll note that the "fouler" was under the goal and had a player piggy back riding him on a rebound attempt when he tried to dismount the rider with an elbow trying to get the offender off his back (he had just been forearmed in the back of the head) and the late whistle came after the opposing coach pointed it out to official (watch the game film coach, your guy was in the wrong, applauding that call showed alot of class-not).

same game a few plays later. personal foul called on player A (losing team), not a hard foul, typical holding foul on a breakaway layup. fouled player mouths to "fouler" and bumps into fouler. tech is called. we thought it was on the player who was fouled running his jaw but no, turns out it's on the fouler who is walking away from confrontation (if he "said" anything i don't see how any official could have heard him based on their positions). [b]this is where it gets good[/b]. tech is assigned to another player (who contacts no one anywhere in the play or after), who if he hadn't hustled his butt off to even get down court wouldn't even have been in the picture (theres some reward for you). just so happens to be same player who was ridden like a fair pony a few plays before, same official making the call....hmmmmm.

it gets better. team has new policy that if they get teched up they sit remainder of game and whole of next game. and even though the coach KNEW there had been an error benched him shortly after and his one game suspension is "pending".

so an official, without recourse, has carelessly and wrongfully caused a kid hustling his butt off for a team that quite regularly gets drummed to sit part of a game and possibly the entire next game.

somebody needs to be blowing that whistle when they use the toilet because he is obviously either biased or incompetent. in retrospect thats lashing out a little, but come on, how about some accountability....

ps - should add that until tonight i've seen a few fairly well called games in row, i guess its feast and famine. missing a call is one thing, calling the wrong number (especially when its called to your attention) seems fairly inexcusable.

[quote name="FanintheStands" post="957092" timestamp="1296280384"]
[quote author=hitchpin link=topic=79473.msg957087#msg957087 date=1296280059]
[quote author=Wildcatter link=topic=79473.msg957082#msg957082 date=1296279432]
regular striped white and black
[/quote]UIL

thanks, well who is in the light grey with black stripes?
[/quote]
[/quote]

blank reply Fan, does that mean white = light grey?

[quote name="Wildcatter" post="957082" timestamp="1296279432"]
regular striped white and black
[/quote]

thanks, well who is in the light grey with black stripes?

what color shirts are TASO?

[quote name="Eagle11" post="957035" timestamp="1296277042"]
[quote author=6thman link=topic=79404.msg956995#msg956995 date=1296274946]
[quote author=HAWKS24 link=topic=79404.msg956617#msg956617 date=1296252998]
whatever it takes to get the point across
[/quote]

This is what is wrong with our country today excepting this kind of behavior. How do you expect the players to give the coach and administrators respect if they don't get any and everyone thinks its ok as long as you are getting your "point across". This is not the way a coach should conduct him/herself. It doesn't take cursing anyone to get your point accross. This is unexceptable behavior!!!!
[/quote]
I am with you 6thman........I think it weak character.
[/quote]

i knew 6th wouldn't be on that island all alone for long  :D

[quote name="BADSANTA" post="956615" timestamp="1296252432"]
What's ur take?
[/quote]

you talking practice, game, where everybody can hear or whispered? we talking about the "a" word or the "f" word? there'll be a ton of "thats not acceptable" either way, lets hear some pros and cons.

i'd be happy if my kid's coach would just yell at him......an emphatic "come on daisy" can go a long way sometimes.

ps-i predict this thread will last 2 weeks on the front page

[quote name="tigerguy" post="956187" timestamp="1296186494"]
They should "uni" it up just like the baseball coaches do!   ;D
[/quote]

:D  :D , better yet the uni from their high school days, can you even buy shorts that short anymore?

back to the original question i think neat is enough, i guess its a tradition thing to tie up?

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="955949" timestamp="1296163067"]
Yep, I still some teams playing to not getting blown out. Then walk around after the game as if they really accomplished something. ::)
[/quote]

hadn't they blue?  :D

Did anybody else see this on Yahoo? Stalling a team that previously blew you out and force 3 OT's...thats giving your team a shot.

[url=http://rivals.yahoo.com/highschool/blog/prep_rally/post/Triple-overtime-game-finishes-with-bizarre-38-31?urn=highschool-312968]Stalling for success[/url]

[quote name="mammagotjuice" post="955424" timestamp="1296095355"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=79264.msg954977#msg954977 date=1296053040]
[quote author=FanintheStands link=topic=79264.msg954903#msg954903 date=1296044314]
Do you think Coach Richard is simply investing in the future, knowing that his team is going to be stronger in the coming years and teaching them to play with 10 players instead of 5?  I mean, I know that if I was going to play 20 minutes instead of 29 or 30, I could go all out and play with a higher level of intensity.
[/quote]I think its more investing with the present. The HF coach knows exactly what lineup to use that will give them the maximum effort to compete. I've seen him do it ONCE! He's a egood guy and wants all his players to play and I can understand this position. Thats how we play in middle school and its fun for the kids. But you have entitled kids in that hs program :D
[/quote]Actually what I would like to see next season is a tougher pre-district season. Sabine pass, Tarkington, and evadale will get you some wins and the record will look promising but those games don't challenge the team. Sure a couple of light games is fine...but the team needs to get some experience at pulling through a tough one in order to be able to do it in a district game.
[/quote]

hey, hey, naming names, is that really necessary?  ;) ;D

this is headin for ugly.....

[quote name="horndawg" post="953572" timestamp="1295828264"]
[quote author=BIGMO44 link=topic=78978.msg953533#msg953533 date=1295824323]
[quote author=horndawg link=topic=78978.msg951036#msg951036 date=1295449565]
It is easy to get on here and complain.......why not man up and ref a few games yourself and see how much more difficult it is than what it looks like from the stands.....but that would require you to actually do something.....

Or better yet, lets make it a rule that all refs must sit in the stands because so much more can be seen from there.......

PS: I am not a ref
[/quote]dawg you make a good point. But I'm not a Ref because I know I'd blow it...often.  So, if I pay to watch a game that my kid or kids I've known their entire life I do expect the best effort possible from the Refs that are GETTING PAID.  Now I do understand that there will be mistakes, thats part of it and as a player you play through it, but it does seem that the last few years there has been a turn for the worse concerning officiating.  I have seen one Ref basically call the whole game from all over the floor and some Refs think they must blow the whistle to seem as if their doing their job...I dont have the answer but if you spend much time watching BB its obvious that the quality is going down.  If Ive got to man up and call a game before I can state an opinion than we must all serve as President before we voice our opinion concerning our country...I know, a bit of a stretch but just making a point...JMO

[/quote]
Don't have a problem with people stating there opinion, but just like voicing your opinion concerning our country, if your not willing to get involved in making changes in things you are concerned about, then quit griping.....JMO as well
[/quote]

i believe that was the point of the thread, thats how involvement starts, first analysis, then opinion, then suggestions, then possibly making changes if one is in a position to do so. as long as it stays constructive it should be all good. but ever few posts someone gets defensive and says "oh yeah well you've never done it so just shut up about it", more or less. that reminds me of the story of the emperor's clothes, nobody is supposed to notice or at least not say anything right?

"getting involved" doesn't mean "go be a ref" necessarily, it may mean alot of things, including constructive criticism. but to say somebody shouldn't have an opinion because they've never done it doesn't hold water imho. there have been some credible suggestions in the thread. and btw, most of the issues don't involve missed calls, that happens, it involves rather obvious bias and inconsistency, and the guys out there busting their tails doing a good job don't deserve the reputation of their craft being tarnished by a [b]few[/b] that don't.

its pretty shallow to assume that we're only happy with the officials when our team wins. i've seen well called games where we've gotten drummed, and i've seen some sorry ones where we would have gotten drummed anyway because of poor play. and yes even poorly called games (in our favor) where we came out on top and those too i wished were done right.

this thread is somewhat negative but given the responses it seems that it is also necessary. i guess i see your point in as much as we should start "reporting" officials to uil or the chapter instead of bringing it up on a very popular and well read forum, but folks are gonna go where somebody will 1. listen, and 2. either support them or convince them theres no reason for concern. so the forum is not important enough to promote change but is important enough to be a problem if someone complains publicly on it? make up your mind. maybe you're right, maybe the "complainers" should form a watchdog group to meet and voice our concerns in a unified way to the uil (how do you think that would fly?), or maybe self "policing" is a better option for all parties concerned. sports should be about the coaches and athletes, not the officials. whatever it takes to get there......lets get there and move on because we'd all rather spend our time talking about great plays and players and great games.

[quote name="xavierbreath" post="951483" timestamp="1295492675"]
[quote author=hitchpin link=topic=78978.msg951273#msg951273 date=1295471003]

the old argument "if you don't like how they do it then suit up and do it yourself" is lame. i didn't sign up to nor accept pay (however poor it is) to do it, they did and they should do it fairly without emotion or bias. alot of officials do it for the love of the sport not the pay, kudos to those who do. i'd bet they're among the best. if we run out of officials, oh well. i'd be just as happy with the kids calling their own compared to some of the mess i've seen this year. i swear i think the kids would be fairer to each other than [u]some[/u] of the grown men calling.

[/quote]

Are you kidding me?  You never have done it, yet you are an expert.  You, without ever officiating a game can tell refs, that have gone thru at least some training, how it should be done?  As was posted earlier "man up", put on a shirt and experience it.  Then get on a board and read all the threads about how terrible you are at calling a game. ;D
[/quote]

no i wasn't kidding, did you see a "lol" anywhere in the post? apparently your reading comprehension is low. i don't expect refs to be perfect or all knowing, just unbiased and unemotional about calling the game, and consistent and accountable. i'm far from an expert, thats kinda the point it doesn't take an expert to see the inconsistency. as stated i didn't sign up to do it. part of the problem is people thinking they are beyond reproach simply because someone with a critical comment doesn't do that same job. thats unintelligent. if you accepted the job and pay then do it right, thats right by the kids.

i want to reiterate that i've seen some well called games this year, a few. to those that are doing it fairly thank you for having the wherewithall and integrity to do a good job. if you don't know who you are...well then you know who you are.

[quote name="mfd814" post="951324" timestamp="1295475836"]
Staying up late one day of the week to watch my son play the game he loves is worth it.  We are used to the late nights, the travel etc.  [i][b][size=12pt]He can sleep in the car on the way home.[/size][/b][/i]  It is nice to have the teams at one place, so the girls and boys can support each other, or if you have a son and daughter that both play.  
[/quote]

you mean the bus?

i've seen some poorly called games this year but never one that is COMPLETELY one sided for the entire game, the problem is in the consistency of the calls, what was not a foul 3 minutes ago suddenly is a foul now, players can't adjust to that, they just get frustrated. a ref not KNOWING rules is one thing, we all can understand a blown call now and again, but when a ref is looking right at a kid that carries the ball several times a game and never blows the whistle.....come on, hang the whistle up, your bias is showing. most fans or players don't want an [i]advantage[/i], they'd just like it to be fair.

it does [i]seem[/i] often times the officials want to dictate the outcome by selective calling, then try to "make up" for it by calling more evenly once the issue is settled (one team is in control of the score).

i agree with everything etbb is saying, including upping the admission to fund an evaluation process (game film not coaches "gradesheets") that would reward good officiating (financially). there are some good officials doing the job without emotional involvement but a higher percentage it seems either consciously or sub-consciously think they should [i]dictate[/i] the outcome. someone's reference to baseball is a moot point, there are some poor umpires too, many will tell you "off the record" they'll make calls based on factors other than the strictest guidelines of the rules.

the old argument "if you don't like how they do it then suit up and do it yourself" is lame. i didn't sign up to nor accept pay (however poor it is) to do it, they did and they should do it fairly without emotion or bias. alot of officials do it for the love of the sport not the pay, kudos to those who do. i'd bet they're among the best. if we run out of officials, oh well. i'd be just as happy with the kids calling their own compared to some of the mess i've seen this year. i swear i think the kids would be fairer to each other than [u]some[/u] of the grown men calling.

the bottom line is that its doubtful any more money will be spent to improve the system. hats off to you guys that are doing the job right and we can just hope that your mentoring will bring around those who obviously don't have a clue.

Silsbee by just enough to make it sting, as well coached as HJ is......lets just say HJ will win the one at home and the "big" one. I'll be glad if they prove me wrong about tonight.