PN-G bamatex

If I’m not mistaken, this is the same system Permian uses. Thought that was much more convenient when I went to see a game in Ratliff last year. Glad to see the upgrade.

3 hours ago, TradenupBH said:

With PNG being land locked, I don’t see them ever going up from 5A D2, which is their favor. Might get a couple more rings

It’s not a land issue, it’s a demographic issue. The population in PN-GISD is getting younger. Old folks are dying off, and their homes are being bought by young families moving in with increasing frequency. Factor in that PN-GISD is more attractive than some of its neighbors right now thanks to the newer schools, the quality of education and the recent extracurricular success, and you have an easy explanation for the ~20% enrollment growth that’s occurred over the last ten years while the neighboring Jefferson County districts have all either flat-lined or shrunk. You also have an explanation for Groves posting the highest growth rate in the county and the third highest in the MSA on the 2020 census.

We’re a lot closer to 5ADI numbers than people realize.

8 hours ago, hitman009 said:

sorry on score.. Maxpreps has it 64-3.. Either way PA wins big..

Agreed Duncanville is on different level and beat SOC by 2 scores. SOC also lost that year to Lancaster (5A-1) by 2 scores who lost in 2nd round.  I know these games are early, but its also early for the teams that won those games. What else can you use as comparison when asking my question?

I think my question is interesting but very few want to address it I guess 

5ADII PN-G beat 6A Beaumont United 49-0 and 45-14 in 2022 and 2023. 4ADII WO-S played the eventual 5ADII state champion Indians to overtime in 2023. If it all boils down to just attendance numbers, explain those facts to me.

8 hours ago, AshlyHasBeen said:

PNG lost 50-15, not 64-3 in 2022. I'm not sure you can compare where a team is in for a Week 1 non-district game to when the dust settles in the playoffs. Some teams improve dramatically, while other take steps back. When it comes down to it, non-district results don't factor much into what a season is turns into. By that logic you could say PNG could stay in a game with 6A-DI champ Duncanville because Duncanville only beat SOC 23-10 in Week 1. I think we all agree Duncanville is on another level. 

To your point, it’s worth noting that the 50-15 loss was PN-G’s first game under a new coach. I think most PN-G fans would agree that the 2022 Indians didn’t fully settle into Joseph’s system until late in the regular season.

On 4/9/2024 at 12:30 PM, purpleeagle said:

Png also has 219 more kids in high school then nederland.

That’s a recent phenomenon. PN-G and Nederland were always within a hundred students of each other until PN-G’s numbers started to jump around 2018. In fact, for many years leading up to that, PN-G was slightly smaller than Nederland.

Jeff Joseph was special teams coordinator at Southlake Carroll when PN-G hired him. Everyone at PN-G, including Joseph himself, characterized the hiring as “taking a chance.”

Look how that worked out.

Would be interested in seeing the regional champions in the small school divisions from the days before state championships were played in the lower classifications added to this list. The original Port Neches Indians won regional championships in 1946 and ‘47, when that was the highest they could go. Finished one of those two seasons undefeated, as I recall.

2 hours ago, prepballfan said:

I wish for all of our brothers and sisters in SETX to reach this point. PNG is blessed beyond all thoughts to have had this run we are on. Every school in our coverage area deserves this opportunity. Once again Thank you all for your support. It has been amazing. 

Agreed. I’m hoping Joseph’s success with the Indians signals to the state’s top coaching talent that Southeast Texas has the right mix of talent, resources and community support to be successful. Scott Rich’s arrival in Nederland suggests that might be happening.

8 hours ago, Davidp0403 said:

This year December 13th is not the championship date, its December 20th.  I see PN-G  anywhere from 1st-3rd. If they sweep LC & Huntsville theyll take 1st, if they split 2nd or 3rd depending on who lost to and tie breakers,  lose both 3rd.  3rd more than likely Marshall 1st round then SOC next

I stand corrected. (As does my calendar.)

I really respect Coach Joseph’s predistrict selections, even if I would like to see Memorial on the schedule. We will be prepared for whatever we face the rest of the season.

I’ve already circled December 13 on my calendar. Scalp ‘em, Indians.

57 minutes ago, glassjoe said:

Anyway, back to Nederland. Rich seems to be putting in a more structured weight program. Hopefully he has someone come and teach proper technique and lifts, actually be an example. Nederland seemed to have higher than normal injuries and cramping than any team they played, consistently 

I’m gonna preach this one more time and then I’ll get off my soap box.

The foundation of a successful high school or collegiate football program is a top notch strength and conditioning regimen.

These Katy guys seem to understand that really well.

5 hours ago, 1970 said:

That's a mystery, but the reason may have been because he couldn't beat Nederland. 

I recall the local news articles back in the 60s and 70s, when Watson was PNG HC, read "always the bridesmaid, never the bride". 

Speaking of which, the next MCM should be interesting. 

Faircloth won four of his last six games versus Nederland, including three in a row. The losses to Nederland were only an issue until Neumann left. That wasn’t the ultimate cause of Faircloth’s demise.

But as a Faircloth supporter, I don’t really think this is worth rehashing now. We have a generationally great coach, and the program’s in the best shape in decades. No use reopening old wounds.

3 hours ago, A BUC 77 said:

Congratulations on your new stadium.  I remember listening to a dog in the back yard behind the visitors stand some 40 years ago.   Great memories there.

That hasn’t changed. I remember listening to a dog right at the back of the visitors’ stands 15 years ago. One of the tuba players dropped his mouthpiece over the back railing by accident and we decided to leave it there because we didn’t think the dog would give it up without a fight.

33 minutes ago, Rez Ipsa said:

No sport has nearly the aggregate amount of emotion around it like football. When PNg won state in baseball (also, I’m just realizing PNG won state in two sports in a six year stretch - That’s pretty cool) everyone was extremely excited and proud. But it wasn’t even close to the near-religious, transcendent breath of joy that opened up across the entire PNG community when we won in football. Football is king at most schools. If coaches chose their jobs only on lack of pressure, they’d all be fighting for non-football spots. 

I know PN-G is a football school first and foremost - 28 district titles, 16 seasons with ten or more wins, ten regional titles, eight state championship appearances and four state titles speak to that - but we really are blessed with an embarrassment of athletic riches at PN-G. The baseball program has made four state championship appearances and won it once; three of those appearances and the victory have all occurred in the last 25 years. The softball team has made two state championship appearances, both in the last 25 years. The volleyball team is 3-0 in state championship games. For most of the last fifteen years, both the boys' and girls' soccer programs have been major regional powers, making regional final appearances several times. If I recall correctly, there was one season where both teams made it to the regional final. We've fielded two or three state champions in various track activities plus a few dozen more state track meet qualifiers, and are always competitive in powerlifting. We used to be a real power in tennis. Sports-wise, basketball is really the only area where PN-G has consistently underperformed.

Add in all the academic accolades - the years of blue ribbon designations, thirteen straight district titles in UIL academics from 2001 to 2013 and several consecutive years of dozens of kids advancing to regionals, a handful to state and one kid winning a gold medal in creative writing at the state UIL meet. For several years, PN-G offered more dual credit hours than any other local high school, Kelly included. And then there's the performing arts. The band has made, what, four trips to the state marching competition? Straight ones all but maybe three or four seasons since the UIL started holding regional marching competitions 50+ years ago, plus how many different awards from local marching festivals and competitions? Not to mention the hundreds of PN-G students who've achieved all-region and all-state honors in band and choir over the years, and a very competitive theater program. There are whole hallways at the high school lined with trophy cabinets filled to the brim for the different performing arts groups.

Football is king at PN-G, but there are many, many more reasons to be proud to be an Indian.

8 minutes ago, outanup said:

Post meeting lunch was at Redbirds...Golf cart parade and post signing party at the Wheelhouse.

 

Hey now, if it was at Redbird's, I'm gonna be jealous I wasn't invited.

Scott Rich will be a good coach for the Bulldogs. It might take a season or two for him to right the ship, but Mid-County Madness is on the verge of being a contest of state-ranked powers, on top of already being the state’s fiercest rivalry and the perennial marquis game in the Golden Triangle. This is good for both schools, and good for the area at large.

I look forward to seeing what Coach Rich does at Nederland.

1 hour ago, AggiesAreWe said:

Why is this thread worthy?

I don’t know, but I do know this:

Quinton Jackson is still on his feet.

(PN-G fans who were at the 2009 game will get it.)

Welcome to the Jungle, v. 2.0.

4 hours ago, Gtj007 said:

It's easy to throw opinions out there about how certain ISDs spend their money and how well they manage it.  This is straight from TEA 2022-23 school year.

"The state's school financial accountability rating system, known as the School Financial Integrity Rating System of Texas (FIRST), ensures that Texas public schools are held accountable for the quality of their financial management practices and that they improve these practices. The system is designed to encourage Texas public schools to better manage their financial resources to provide the maximum allocation possible for direct instructional purposes."

This metric doesn't work the way I suspect you think it does. The grading rubric TEA uses to determine these ratings has several "ceiling indicators," which are factors that can cap the maximum possible overall score assigned to a school district if a particular condition isn't met, even if the school scored the maximum possible points with respect to every other factor for consideration. You can confirm that for yourself by viewing the rubric

.

PN-G's FIRST report, available

, indicates the district scored a 96 out of 100 and would have been given an A rating but for the failure to satisfy one ceiling indicator. According to the data considered with respect to that factor, the district's fund balance fell 25.4% over three years. The factor only allows for a maximum 25% reduction before the grade cap is triggered. I would bet good money that the decline in the district's fund balance was caused by special arrangements the district had to make due to the delays in the construction of the new schools caused by COVID, though I can't say that for sure. Whatever the case may be, failure to meet that condition capped PN-G's highest possible grade at 89, instead of the 96 PN-G would have otherwise scored.

Interestingly, Nederland also scored a 96. NISD's FIRST report, available

, and PN-GISD’s are identically scored in every way except for with respect to that one fund balance criterion.

In any event, this is an academic exercise that I don't think really addresses PhatMack's point. He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he was saying that the Nederland bond was more expensive and less effective at reducing NISD's long term operational expenditures than PN-G's bond packages have been and/or will be. I think he's probably correct. PN-GISD's latest bond package consolidated six schools into four, as PhatMack aptly pointed out. Less obvious is the reduction in utility and maintenance costs brought about by both PN-G's 2019 and 2007 bond issues, which altogether replaced eight old schools that were energy inefficient and costly to maintain with six new ones that are much more efficient and less maintenance-intensive, and achieved similar cost savings at the high school through extensive renovation. NISD's bond issue didn't consolidate any schools and only replaced one, though it included some renovations to a handful of others, too. I don't think there's much debate to be had that PN-G's bond issues will save the district considerably more money in the long run.

53 minutes ago, El Grande Ned said:

Is there still the “Robin Hood” loophole that the district can use funds that would have gone into that system and instead put into the Interest and Sinking Fund? I know it was a tactic used by “wealthy” school districts to avoid losing the money and keeping it in their schools. And I don’t think there were many specifics on what that entailed.

This is the part where even I start to get confused. I don’t pretend to understand exactly how that works, partly because it’s only gotten more complicated as the state has started throwing large amounts of money into property tax relief (a process known in policy circles as rate compression). But, as I understand it, the district isn’t actually keeping the cash, just redirecting it away from the state in favor of bond projects, and the sums saved from Robin Hood aren’t as large as you might think. It might be better termed a subsidy than a rebate.

27 minutes ago, PhatMack19 said:

The bonds are the big issue.  Yes PNG has more money, but they also spend it wisely and the community is behind them.  
 

Nederland is spending $32 mil more than PNG on the last bond.  PNG got rid of 2 schools (which cut overhead) and built 4 brand new state of the art schools.  
 

Nederland wouldn’t get rid of 100 yr old “historic” buildings because someone’s great grandma went to school there.  Instead they piece milled 4 old schools together and it looks awful.  They did get a new HS and 3 connex boxes for a press box though for $32 mil over what PNG paid.  

The emboldened line is an underrated point. I know I'm the PN-G homer here, but I've spent the last seven years dealing with school districts across the state. I am objectively impressed at the strides PN-GISD has made in terms of financial management over the last ten years. They have been far more prudent than a lot of other Texas school districts I can think of (and I'm not necessarily referring to Nederland, to be clear).

Not to add fuel to a growing fire or anything, but I would just like to point out that PN-G's higher level of property wealth per capita versus Nederland, owing to the former's more industrial tax base, also means PN-GISD loses substantially more state funding than NISD to recapture, better known as "Robin Hood." When all is said and done, the net per capita funding disparity is not as significant as one might think, and nowhere near as significant as it was before the Robin Hood plan was put into effect a little over 30 years ago.

It is also worth noting that Maintenance & Operations funding (i.e., money for day-to-day operations) and Interest & Sinking funding (i.e., money to pay off bonds) are two separate streams of tax revenue for school districts that are assessed as separate line items on your property tax bill. To PhatMack's point, the latter is totally dependent on the structure and amount of the bond proposed by the school district, subject to rate caps and other mandates imposed by the state. I doubt there's much, if any, difference in the overall cost to the individual homeowners in PN-GISD and NISD over the lives of their respective bonds after inflation is controlled for, or at least little difference attributable to anything other than differences in the total, inflation-adjusted costs of the bonds.

8 minutes ago, 1970 said:

Exactly right. PN Elementary, Ridgewood Elem, Woodcrest, Van Buren Elem, Old Groves Elem, all torn down now. Brand new or almost new elementary and middle schools in both Groves and PN. And when a couple of the new buildings weren't quite ready for the first day of school last fall, the sh*t hit the fan, if I recall right. 

It did, and I get it, but I have to stick up for the school district there. Post-COVID, large scale construction projects are still a nightmare. The district did the best it could in a worst case scenario.

I recently left a state institution of higher education with eleven existing campuses across the state and two more on the drawing board. Back in 2021, I helped get them $208.5 Million from the Legislature for major construction projects at seven of those campuses. By the time all the fundraising was done, and after a little more coaxing from the state, that was nearly $400 Million total. I had occasion to drive by one of those campuses last week. The ceremonial groundbreaking for its project was last August. It’s February, and they still haven’t even leveled the site for the foundation of the facility. I was flabbergasted.

7 hours ago, NHSBulldogFan said:

PN-G has two towns to pull from Nederland just 1 

School district boundaries don’t follow city limits. NISD has all of Nederland plus healthy portions of Port Neches and Port Arthur and all of Central Gardens and Beauxart Gardens. PN-GISD loses roughly a quarter of Port Neches to NISD and a fifth of Groves to PAISD, though it picks up two neighborhoods in Port Arthur.

It’s more like both districts have a town and a half; the number of residents and households the two districts have is almost always roughly even. When I was in school (PN-G c/o 2011), Nederland had about a hundred more students than PN-G.

The fact that PN-G is ~15% larger than Nederland now is significant. That’s the largest enrollment disparity between the two schools in at least 30 years, maybe longer. What you’re seeing is PN-GISD’s aggressive approach to replacing schools since 2008 paying dividends. Young families took notice.

11 minutes ago, 1970 said:

A non sequitur: 

When I left SETX in the 80s it seemed like lots of PNG folks were moving to Nederland. When I returned in the 2000s it seemed like folks were moving from Nederland to PNG.  The two towns are like an amalgamated area, except for the school districts, and especially athletics. 

A good friend of mine from law school is a Nederland grad and still practices in Austin. Grabbed a beer with him a few weeks back. He told me just about everyone he knows from his high school graduating class who’s still in the area and has kids is trying to find a house in PN-GISD right now. Top reasons are the current success of PN-G’s extracurricular programs and the condition of NISD schools, the new high school aside.

Meanwhile, the only person I know from my high school days who’s sending her kids to Nederland has a beef with a retired PN-GISD administrator (petty reasons, not real ones) that she’s still not over.